Frank DiLeo Speaks about AEG shows and the Day MJ Died

[Soso Deaf]

cuz if what some are saying is right, his team of people would encourage his usage of pills so they could trap him intodoing things. notice, mj was ok and then frank fires everyone, and then shit starts. lawsuit goes unanswered, he's losing weight, then he passes away

 

[mischief]

i think they set a trap for him. the minute he got that catalogue, it was set. let's hope he fails. oh wow, random, a sex allegation....hmmmmm there's the end of THAT tour.

use atv as collateral, use the ranch, etc....then oh wow, random, another sex allegation. hmmmmmmm this time it was bananas. he didn't work or do anything for several yrs. he wasn't earning money. he was amassing a lot of debt.

i think theypushed him in debt so he would lose it. found ways for him to fail on the projects he was trying to do (what more can i give, and from the bottom of my heart) and just overall saturating th emarket w/ anti-jackson news and images.

it was his debt that did him over. it was his debt that drove him to do these shows, it was his debt that made hi ma target.

like bain said, there was a conspiracy to push him into bancruptcy. i truly believe that. but was he killed over this? no way b/c now his debt will be erradicated by the en dof the yr and his own catalogue will be more valuable. so the opposite has happened. his kids get it now.

This is exactly what was going on in my opinion too. They foreclosed on Neverland indecently quickly then the threat to auction it publicly on the steps outside seemed to be designed for maximum humiliation value. I believe the loan company was manipulated or pressurised into following the path it took there. Months later that loan company went bust too. Sign of the times maybe..or maybe not.

 

[RedMaryFlint]

See? It's like I'm playing f***ing "Clue" with this, lol. :lol: It's like "did he hire an impersonator?" That don't make no sense. He HAD to know what he was signing. I just refuse to believe Michael was that dumb, lol.

I don't think he was either. My guess is that the contract Michael signed was for an initial number of shows with an option to add others. It would have been natural for him to expect his manager to consult him properly before scheduling these additional shows, and I think that this is what didn't happen. Tohme did get dumped for some reason. An entertainer not only is the center of a business empire, but the creative center of the enterprise, and there are only so many hours in a day, especially if he also wants to pursue any kind of personal life. It makes sense that an entertainer would grant at least a limited POA to his manager to arrange his affairs for him. When the manager is trustworthy and genuinely working in his best interests, this is a positive thing, but if that's not the case -- and Michael has not always made the best choices in staffing -- then the entertainer loses out. Dileo insists that Michael did understand the contract, and I believe him, but that doesn't mean he was on board with the number of additional shows or their scheduling. In fact, in one of the interviews, Dileo does admit that Michael didn't like the shows being initially scheduled so close together, and he had to rearrange the terms. So even as Dileo insists that Michael was fine with the concerts, he actually gives some support to the idea that the additional concerts were not in fact laid out with Michael's full knowledge and consent.

 

[troubleman84]

^^ That's more possible.

 

[SoS]

Thus far you all are making some very interesting points. I had to stop reading and comment but I'm gonna go back and read as much of this thread as I can because its good to know I'm not the only one nothing is making sense for and I'm taking this moment to have a little rant. I haven't been online in weeks and so y'all have to please pardon the length of this purge. I'm gonna go back and read some more now, I apologize if all this has been mentioned. I just needed to vent *sigh* and where I have question marks I do wish someone would answer because I have been so OUT of the loop.

First of all, so far, there is nothing about the 'Diprovan' story that is making ANY SENSE.

For some reason, some "POWERS THAT BE" seem to want this stupid story swollowed hook-line-and sinker by the public and its working. The press is hammering at it AS IF they have facts when they have NOTHING except the doctor's alleged claims to have administered it (and when did that admission take place??) and the "nutritionists" claims that MJ was "desperate" for it 2 1/2 nights before his "last breath". NEITHER OF THOSE TWO THINGS MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME and I just have to write why. Someone please show me some sense in the following and I'll feel MUCH better.


1) First of all, "Diprovan" came out of the clear blue sky. There were NO initial reports of any I.V. stands or bags or viles found in the home by paramedics which would have been blaringly obvious enough at first sight and would have struck ANY certified paramedic as STRANGE ... especially since the patient they came to "rescue" was NOT BREATHING. I.V. drip poles would have raised enough questions for it to have immediately been in the press. NOT days and weeks later.

Also somewhere within a week later, we see law enforcement leaving the house with all these "bags" of (supposed according to the press - drugs - how could the press know that at such an early stage of the investigation??) but NO paramedic commented on there being "viles" of anything and again, NO BIG TALL I.V. POLES were in the footage, oxegyn tanks, none of that.

I mention the paramedic not commenting on something that would appear so blatant because the paramedic did comment saying that MJ seemed to have been D.O.A. of them getting to his house - why wouldn't they mention drip stands, bags, viles etc. upon their initial interview? But ok. Maybe they just didn't tell US, or the press. OK, moving on.

2) When the Diprovan story did come out, it came from a nutritionist, someone whom Michael would have no reason to expect would provide him with something only used in surgery period in the first place.

In other words, by her being a STRICT nutritionist, Michael would have NO reason what-so-ever to imagine she would suddenly provide him with a drug - of any kind, what-so-ever PERIOD. I feel there's a LIE somewhere in that whole thing.

IF she showed him in person from the book just how dangerous it was - etc. AS HER CASE AGAINST IT - - - - what would make Michael suddenly get some "glimmer of hope" of calling her 3 months later in desperation over the phone LONG DISTANCE, especially after she HAS ALREADY told him ... 1) NO the first time WHILE SITTING IN HIS HOUSE ..

.... and 2) EVEN WHILE she was in Florida! in her own personal emergency!! So easy to make the world believe MJ is/was some kind of primadonna is all it is an attempt to do. MJ may have been spoilt with an overblown sense of "entitlement" like any mega-star but he also is known to be analytical and rational, NOT ILLOGICALLY STUPID.

What am I suggesting? Nothing execpt that doesn't make any rabbit-a** sense.

3) He's calling her to hunt this drug down 2 and 1/2 days before his last breath from the stuff which he miraculously, not only found, but had in GREAT ABUNDANCE ALL OF A SUDDEN by the time he died ... yeh right.

2) and I do wish someone would explain to me how it could be that MJ was desperately seeking Diprovan 2 1/2 days before his 'final breath', called a nurse he hadn't talked to in 3 months because he could find it nowhere WHILE at the very same time he HAS a doctor on hand who has allegedly been providing it all along !!

(remember the former chef, the guy, who was the first to tell us about oxygen tanks being carried out of the kitchen every morning? and also, the current female chef who said the exact same thing was going on up to the very day he "died" ??

The point is, if the doctor was providing it all along, then why would MJ have been so desperate to get it 2-3 nights before?? What sense does that make?

and then the police go in there (after the family did with the moving van remember?) and suddenly there's a boatload of the stuff ... I guess I repeated but I mean how is that even possible??? This is a FAMOUS family. Even as obscure as my life is ....I have to say that I believe that if a family member of mine died suddenly and everyone was going to have cameras (or word of mouth) at the death scene, and this beloved member of my family was once known to be addicted to drugs, who the world is going to speculate about no matter what - - I would have put all that stuff on this bigg ass moving van because if they're my relative and I'm searching high and low for money etc. I would have found the "viles" etc. just like the po-po supposedly did, and my reason for doing it would be so that the world could not speculate any more than it already would be. I would present that information to the coroner and the police etc. - NOT have it avaliable to the press.

What am I suggesting? Nothing, except that doesn't make any rabbit-a** sense to me.

If you say, "ok well as far as him hunting for it a couple nights before he died, well ...he ran out of it and didn't have any for that Sunday night and the doctor was fresh out of his supply at that moment" and MJ "needed" it real bad to sleep - then I would say to you that MJ (ostensively) knew
his own doctor had the "hook up" and that he would have to maybe wait a couple days for a "fresh supply". SO in the life of someone who finds this drug hard to get period......what the heck is a couple days?

And if he's gonna "beg" someone for it - would he really choose a NUTRITIONIST?? Someone who is PHILOSOPHICALLY OPPOSED to drugs PERIOID??

AAND TO THE POINT OF TRYING TO DO IT LONG-DISTANCE FROM FLORIDA??? SOMEONE HE ALREADY KNOWS HAS ALREADY SAID "NO" WHILE SHE WAS RIGHT THERE IN HIS HOUSE? Don't you think he'd stand a better chance "begging" Dr. Jeckyll, (sorry) I mean, Dr. Klein????

But even with Dr. Murray on hand 24/7 at his becking call, MJ would already know he'd be getting the stuff soon, the same way he'd been getting it, right? Why would he have been so "desperate" to find it himself anyway???? That makes no sense to me. Where were his Hollywood "hookups"????

 

[SoS]

For that matter, where was Dr. Murray when MJ was "begging" this "nurse" for propofal? Was Dr. Murray sitting by the phone next to MJ hoping himself that this nurse/nutritionist would suddenly become a new down-low hospital-drug hookup"?? Who in the sam hill would reason that?

In all her great morality and ethics, she, according to her, allegedly, unapologetically stood in his house and told him NO WAY! Essentially she said, 'even if you are Michael Jackson I'm telling you NO'. Was MJ used to hearing NO? He wasn't according to many who were around him. He was used to hearing YES. .... . and he's going to call her???? I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT FOR A MILLI-SECOND.

Don't "DRUG ADDICTS" go to people they KNOW will supply them and AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE, people they KNOW will admonish them???? PLEASE.

3) On another note, one thing the world doens't know is that fans have been paying close attention to MJ over the years and know Michael Jackson to be the worlds' strictest perfectionist (we all know, he insists on having the best of everything on top of being a health fanatic) and one of those "rules" of perfectionism is dealing with people who are PROVEN to be THE BEST.

Now here we are expected to believe that this perfectionis insisted on having an uncertified cardiologist (of all things to have uncertified - a heart doctor???) - plus - no anethesiologist to admister this most lethally dangerously powerful anesthesia??

It makes no sense to my mind what-so-ever. Someone may say, "well drug addicts' standards fall waaaay low when they are in desperate "need" of a "fix". True, HOWEVER, diprovan is not a drug that gives a person a "high", its just a "knock out" drug, the "effects" of it are not even "felt" while the person is "under" its influence. Yes they may become "addicted" to that "glorious" feeling they may have upon awakening, but ALL it does is knock the person OUT. If he wanted a "feel good" "fix" there are other drugs that would serve that purpose.

If he was so desperate to sleep that Sunday night that he called her on the phone while she was in FLORIDA, what would be the best he could have expected from that situation even if she had said, 'yes'???

For her to .... do WHAT?

LEAVE her own emergency room emergency, jump on a plane, go hijack a hospital supply room and rush it over to him?? and she has already proven to be a primadonna herself when it comes to that?

What sense does that make? I'll say it again, she's a NUTRITIONIST ! That's like going to a wholistic healer for a shot of demerol! (Deepok Chopra?) I don't believe ANY of it at all. None of it, period.


OK, so with a constant "supplier" in residence at his house, MJ had to get on the phone to find this drug himself from some NUTRITIONIST he hadn't talked to in MONTHS who already told him to his face hell no. MAKES NO SENSE - NOT EVEN FOR A PERSON IN AN IRRATIONAL ADDICTED STATE or shall I say, ESPECIALLY for a person determined to get something QUICK.

4) About the "CPR" - - Even if, I repeat, EVEN IF .... even if it were a WONDERFUL idea for a cardiologist to attempt CPR on the bed due to him being highly experienced, and so much bigger than the patient etc. ..... at some point when doing it that way and that way didn't work, a little birdie from a Red Cross first aid class would have whispered in his ear, "let's try this on the floor" in his desperation to get something to work in his favor.

ESPECIALLY if you are in a pacnic to get this person to breathe! What am I suggesting? Nothing except that doesn't make a lick of sense.

5) Speaking of breathing, maybe its just my limited recall from CPR class, but as I recall, (and someone correct me here, nurses, I know you all know) when someone has a faint pulse, as the doctor said MJ did at first, but they are not breathing, I recall that the fact that they have a pulse means their heart is beating! The fact that they are not breathing means they need mouth-to-mouth resussitation, NOT cardio-pulmenary-ressusitation, y'all help me out there. Right now it just doesn't MAKE SENSE. AND since the breathing aparatus was a necessity to have on hand...why would the doctor not have him hooked up to that instead of CPR anway? OK, that's where I don't have enough info perhaps...like maybe he had no breathing apparatus just like he had no defibulator ... duh no defibulator and you're a heart doctor.


7) Speaking of being a heart doctor, so he couldn't call 911 earlier because WHY??? No phone access??? So, being a heart doctor, it wasn't built into his modus operandi to make sure he could call for help in the event of a heart emergency. Yeh right.

8) Frank Dileo pointed out that MJ said to him that being a single father, he would never endanger his well-being by being an actively using drug addict of those pain killers he'd been on in the early 90s (ok the first thing we know is that drug addicts lie but stay with me here and let me get to my point) so one thing we know if we believe that much from Dileo, is that Michael DEFINITELY had sense enough not to endanger his life in some kind of reckless way (that is my point) being that he's a single father. ok, but so now you are going to make me believe that he would insist on being artificially comatized by a drug that automatically stops your ability to breathe on your own, and your only hope for survival is for someone who

a) knows EXACTLY what they're doing and b) has PROVEN to truly give a deep abiding CARING about your life, NOT some "broke bloke" who he "hit it off" with in Vegas of all places and who is in a position (like so many others in MJ's RECENT PAST), to do anything for money.

So now we're supposed to believe that being the sober-minded, dedicated single father that MJ has PROVEN to be, and he's going to insist on someone UNQUALIFIED who he fairly recently met in Vegas?? and who's broke as hell and who doesn't have the adequate equipment to care for him?

If any doctor (or any other professional of any kind for that matter) has any kind of history of being careless, or half-stepping I do not believe MJ would want them anywhere near him. You may say, 'well look at Marc Schaffel, MJ didn't know he was involved in those things he was into" and I say, "ok true, however, Marc Schaffel was someone MJ took a chance with in an area where he was comfortable taking chances, his creativity and business - not his very LIFE and HEALTH.


So then,

here we have a HIGHLY dedicated father who is SUPPOSEDLY desperately hunting for a drug that is virtually guaranteed to stop his breathing each and every time he uses it (the whole purpose of the artificial respirator being on hand and monitering being a strict requirement and the only reason it is to be used only in a hospital setting and only with the due dilligence of a well-trained anesthesiologist on watch 24/7 does he stand a chance of ensuring his surivival) and this perfectionist who's entire family and career hinges on the success of this one doctor and MJ is going to insist on having an uncerfified, non-anesthesiologist who's broke as hell and could easily be in a position to do anything for money?? to watch after him??? the sole parent of his 3 angels????? Umm NO. .... a health-conscious, perfectionist who has to have ONLY the best of everything. When did that change?? Someone is expecting me to believe that he has a 50 concert gig where his health is vital, "this machine that fuels this entire business" - would insist on having one of the most uncredentialed, broke, ill-reputed doctors he could find to be in full charge?? of his health?? fully knowing?? this breath-stopping knock out drug has his life in his hands??? Um..NO. I'm not the one to believe MJ would make such a choice.

What am I suggesting is the case? Nothing except that doe not make any sense what-so-ever to me and I'm not buying it. I feel Randy Phillips should have been too embarrassed to even make that statement of MJ's quote about being "the machine that fuels this business" while being the head of the company that is paying this QUACK. That does not make sense.

And besides, if for insurance, if for no other reason, wouldn't AEG ensure their investment by having a qualified doctor on hand? Did they do no research before agreeing to allow this to be MJ's private doctor?

Speaking of the chefs in MJ's house ... did AEG hire her too? I saw it mentioned in that one article stated that someone from AEG said MJ was being fed a strict vegetarian diet so I'd think the only way they'd really know that is if they hired the vegetarian cook themselves. When and why was she originally let go? Why/when was she hired back?

All these "new" people were going to be traveling with MJ.

Wouldn't this be the first time MJ took so many "Fast friends" on tour with him? Was Brando going? Anyone MJ really KNEW? (besides Dileo?)

MJ "liked" Dr. Murray that much to the point where his "liking' him was more important than making sure he was qualified for the job of overseeing this "machine" while it was helplessly knocked out?

I'm starting to believe that MJ was "enslaved" to this contract. This deal was imho not only about his making good on the 50 concerts but AEG was looking 3 years out at a world tour! MJ had already made it clear that he did not want to spend the last half of his life doing that and there's no telling what kind of "push back" AEG was getting from him. He wanted to do films, remember? He knew he could have had his kids see what he does without agreeing to put them through what he didn't want to go through as a child himself. All that grueling traveling ..

And its just entirely too interesting that it just so happens that Dr. Quack had a long phone call to make or fell asleep or something afterall. Being that THAT very thing is the gravest danger of this drug, that is too dam convenient and even dang near laughable because i DON'T BELIEVE IT. He stands to have more money than he's ever seen in his life with as much trouble as he's been in financially and he's going to "forget" that the greatest star on earth, entrusted to his care, is in the next room knocked out. yeah right.

NONE of it makes sense. And I wish the press would stop comparing this to A.N.-Smith, because it is an entirely different situation. There has been NO tox report that supports their "drug overdose" theory OR their Diprovan theory and if one does come out at this point, I doubt it will be believable. I'm sorry this was long and repetitive. You know anytime there are so many questions and no answers, something is amiss and this is only a scratch at the surface of things that don't make sense.

Frank Dileo gets to go say goodbye to MJ and hug him etc. and his childen mom etc. don't get to until 20 min later?? OK, *sigh* I'm done lol this is all just crazy. *exhale* ok... will catch up on reading some more pages now. ...again (for any who read it) ...sorry this is so long!!

 

[meena76]

The answer? Probably a man who is being pressured to do something he did not intend to do, i.e. fifty dates? Three lawyers were explaining to him how he would be hurt in various ways if he did not fulfil his tour "obligations?" It seems that he was blocked from performing anywhere else until "the obligations" were fulfilled.

He said he went to bed having agreed to do ten dates, and woke up to fifty! Frank Dileo confirms that Michael made this statement, but Frank made it seem like a joke. So does one believe Frank, that Michael said it like a joke, or believe Michael when he said the same to fans and was clearly upset? I believe Michael. . . . .

I believe Michael too.

I know his heart.

 

[Superstition]

Great post Victoria, I don't think fans realize how evil and brutal the music industry is and how they have a way of entrapping people and destroying lives. All the industry needs is to find your achilles tendon and use it make you do things you hate but knowing if it ever becomes public you are destroyed.

Very true, ANY company can be ruthless (and many are). What I don't realize is why a supposedly good businessman would let someone sign him up for dozens of shows he didn't want to perform. Away from the stage for 8 years and he doesn't even know what the heck he's going to be doing for his big comeback?

 

[meena76]

This may be out of the flow of the thread, but I just have to say this.

What I don't understand is why is everyone so ready to jump on the AEG Sony, Franks, and so many other money hungry peoples ban wagon,

All these people care about is money, Money is the root of all evil.

None of these people cared about Michael, but they cared a hell of a lot about his money.


I trust none of them, they are all evil.

The only people I trust are the ones who cared for Michael the human being, not the entertainer.

Michael, his family and the fans!! (His true fans!!!)

 

[CherubimII]

I believe multiple doctors started Michael Jackson on a dangerous course of over medication for his insomnia, and then in steps. Sony, AEG, Colony Capital, and Dr. Murray. None of them giving a damn about our Angel, Michael Jackson. Conrad Murray began working together with the corporatists. AEG, Sony, Colony Capital, Dr. Murray and all the other corporatists were motivated by greed. So, AEG, eventually, either set up or paid Dr. Murray to take the fall for
Michael Jackson’s death. I, also, suspect, Nurse Cherilyn Lee was paid to go to the police and media and insert (plant) the Propofol addiction story.


However, there is no honor among thieves. So, I pray that, now, Dr. Conrad Murray, in order to save himself, will start "singing like a bird", and bring his fellow conspirators down into Hell with him.
Have you seen this video which captures the conspirators quite well; but it does not emphasize enough the roles of Colony Capital, Thomas Barrack and Dr. Tohme, Tohme?
Click on and Watch:
MICHAEL JACKSON'S DEATH- SUSPECT OR WITNESS (Unsolved Mystery)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41rdPR4_Lak&feature=related

"ANYTHING FOR MONEY" "KILL FOR IT"

 

[troubleman84]

State of Shock, you read my damn mind!

 

[SoS]

State of Shock, you read my damn mind!

u knowwww? ^5. I also just read this whole thread and realize I'm am basically off topic!! Sorry my post isn't ALL about Dileo but I hesitate to delete it because it all is part of the same stupid complex puzzle - somehow it all will fit together - - or in the places where it doesn't "fit", it could speak volumes!

Its interesting how many of us are looking through the smoke screen and we're not the only ones. The media act sometimes like they think people are puppets, just swollow any ole' thing.

We're just trying to make out what we're seeing is all, but everyone is not friggin crazy like these crooks think. People know when they're looking through a smoke screen, even if we can't quite make out what we see (yet).

To this, someone may ask, "who're the crooks"? OK so maybe we're not quite sure yet, but there's some crooks somewhere, we know that much. If anyone who "hates" these 'conspiracy' theories would answer some of these questioins SENSIBLY then let them come on and do it. So far, only a bunch of unanswered questions.


Thanks CheribumII for that video. There are lots of THINKING people out here. They can fool some of the people some of the time ... but they can't fool MJ's loyal fans. Not for very long.

This is also the first time I've even heard people who are NOT "MJ Fans" by self-definition, saying the same things we are. Nothing about this makes any sense to the THINKING people of the world.

 

[Superstition]

3) On another note, one thing the world doens't know is that fans have been paying close attention to MJ over the years and know Michael Jackson to be the worlds' strictest perfectionist (we all know, he insists on having the best of everything on top of being a health fanatic) and one of those "rules" of perfectionism is dealing with people who are PROVEN to be THE BEST.

Now here we are expected to believe that this perfectionis insisted on having an uncertified cardiologist (of all things to have uncertified - a heart doctor???) - plus - no anethesiologist to admister this most lethally dangerously powerful anesthesia??

He was a perfectionist when it came to music. Not everything else. Nobody is perfect about everything all of the time. If he was perfect, he wouldn't have put himself in what he himself described as vulnerable positions in the past.

 

[Ohood]

AEG knew about what MJ told the fans...they warned him .AEG knew about the lawyer calling the Nation of Islam.....they took action...period.

 

[troubleman84]

Man, I'm getting real confused again, lol. So I'm back to :blink: :huh: :scratch:

 

[Kizmic]

I believe multiple doctors started Michael Jackson on a dangerous course of over medication for his insomnia, and then in steps. Sony, AEG, Colony Capital, and Dr. Murray. None of them giving a damn about our Angel, Michael Jackson. Conrad Murray began working together with the corporatists. AEG, Sony, Colony Capital, Dr. Murray and all the other corporatists were motivated by greed. So, AEG, eventually, either set up or paid Dr. Murray to take the fall for
Michael Jackson’s death. I, also, suspect, Nurse Cherilyn Lee was paid to go to the police and media and insert (plant) the Propofol addiction story.


However, there is no honor among thieves. So, I pray that, now, Dr. Conrad Murray, in order to save himself, will start "singing like a bird", and bring his fellow conspirators down into Hell with him.
Have you seen this video which captures the conspirators quite well; but it does not emphasize enough the roles of Colony Capital, Thomas Barrack and Dr. Tohme, Tohme?
Click on and Watch:
MICHAEL JACKSON'S DEATH- SUSPECT OR WITNESS (Unsolved Mystery)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41rdPR4_Lak&feature=related

"ANYTHING FOR MONEY" "KILL FOR IT"

That is what sociopaths do.

 

[SoS]

He was a perfectionist when it came to music. Not everything else. Nobody is perfect about everything all of the time. If he was perfect, he wouldn't have put himself in what he himself described as vulnerable positions in the past.

True, but, when it comes to his health I just can't see him immediatly deciding to "settle for less". Here is a devoted dad who knows that his entire career and future of his family hinges entirely on him being well and healthy.

Even with that 'mistake' he made with Brashir, at least Brashir was someone who he had reason to think was among "the best" in his field, since he'd interviewed Princess Diana, although he botched it up pretty badly from what I've heard. If MJ really felt his "body is the machine that fuels this whole business" why wouldn't he spare no expense for a QUALIFIED doctor??

But for MJ to instead, right off the bat insist on a doctor who is uncredentialed in the State of California, NOT even an Anesthesiologist, and he'd already been-there-done-that with people who "needed" money, plus MJ has been "under" enough times to know what equipment is needed and opted for a doctor who had none of it? Plus, MJ knows the shady record business better than anybody so surely he would know the doctor was in a financially vulnerable position too as far as being in a position to betray him, afterall, he'd been betrayed SO MUCH and was thought by some to be (understandably) pretty "paranoid". He's gonna insist on having some broke (which MJ probably was aware of) "Quack" (which MJ could also see by the doc not having proper equipment) to put him "under"?? KNOWING his breathing has to probably STOP?

I dunno but one thing I agree on for sure. This whole thing makes ya go :doh: ! Nothing makes any sense!!

I feel it goes back to the Diprivan story being a bunch of bunk.

 

[troubleman84]

Yeah, it's just all too f***ing bizarre now.

 

[CatherineNZ]

Speaking of the chefs in MJ's house ... did AEG hire her too? I saw it mentioned in that one article stated that someone from AEG said MJ was being fed a strict vegetarian diet so I'd think the only way they'd really know that is if they hired the vegetarian cook themselves. When and why was she originally let go? Why/when was she hired back?

Kai Chase? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEMizSwjC3I&feature=related

she said she had left in May and came back in June
was she fired? who did it?
why would he pull her aside and tell her "i need you to be here and feed me. i need to stay healthy and strong"?

was he concerned about not being fed properly?
and another point that he was concerned about his health.
she said "chicken" as one of the meals. so not strictly vegetarian when she was there

 

[CatherineNZ]

AEG knew about what MJ told the fans...they warned him .AEG knew about the lawyer calling the Nation of Islam.....they took action...period.

sorry i might have missed something. what the Nation of Islam has to do with it? are they still onboard? could someone clarify? sorry for off topic questions

 

[SoS]

Kai Chase? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEMizSwjC3I&feature=related

she said she had left in May and came back in June
was she fired? who did it?
why would he pull her aside and tell her "i need you to be here and feed me. i need to stay healthy and strong"?

was he concerned about not being fed properly?
and another point that he was concerned about his health.
she said "chicken" as one of the meals. so not strictly vegetarian when she was there

Right. And so now, this is the same man who deliberately wants a doctor who is ill-equipped, to knock him out nightly with a drug that would stop his very breathing ...and he insists on taking this doctor to London with him. As for Kai Chase, I just watched a youtube where she'd mentioned that it was something contractual related that caused her to leave the first time. That's interesting too. Did she "leave" or was she "let go"? Why would she have been "let go" for something contractual? The interview I saw said she was gone 3 weeks. She said a few things that also gave me pause. I wonder if AEG is responsible for her being in MJ's life. Anyone know where she came from? Who recommended her? I haven't watched your link yet. I have to leave now but will open it when I get time. Thanks for posting!

 

[mischief]

sorry i might have missed something. what the Nation of Islam has to do with it? are they still onboard? could someone clarify? sorry for off topic questions

The insinuation was that Tohme Tohme had links when he threatened the owners of Juliens auctions earlier this year.

 

[CatherineNZ]

My uncle spoke with Jermaine on the 26th, and said Jermaine told him that Michael asked to be taken to the hospital the night before he died but the doctor wouldn't take him and told Michael he was fine instead.

how does Jermaine know? did Michael call him or someone told Jermaine?

 

[MJJ2theMAX]

Thank you. Obviously if Michael didn't wanna do it, he could've said NO but he chose to do it.

you cant just back out of 50 shows.. and say "oh i just dont wanna do it" ... do you realise how many problames that would cause? massive legal battle etc...he really had no option

True no other artist did what MJ did in ticket sales but does that mean he was the one who DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT? Really? Was Michael Jackson THAT clueless and naive? Really?

yes, sadly i think so

^^ This is what I don't get, why did he need someone else to sign for him? :blink:

lots of people give POA (signing powers) away.. makes it easier, if they trust their manager

Michael DID turn AEG down twice so can anyone explain why he agreed the third time then? Even if it was adding "too many" shows as is claimed here.

if Thome etc were saying he NEEDED the money maybe? i mean he was in alot of debt... if he didnt want the embarassment of properly selling neverland or the catalogue.. concerts may hve seemed like only option.. Thome may have pushed this cos he'd get a cut too

See? It's like I'm playing f***ing "Clue" with this, lol. :lol: It's like "did he hire an impersonator?" That don't make no sense. He HAD to know what he was signing. I just refuse to believe Michael was that dumb, lol.

assuming MJ did sign (which he may not of done going by auction scenario)

contracts are MASSIVE documents with lots of clauses... big starts dont spend hours trawling through contracts full of legal jargon... its not like a contract will be one sheet of a4 saying I agree to do 50 shows.. signed... MJ"... its MJs managers job to go through that and exmplain what hes signing. Thome wont even gve away his age.. let alone his business experience.. did this guy have a clue? or did he just let MJ get duped into this cos he'd get more money out of it

fans saw MJ on his way to meetings in May / June and said they couldnt believe he was being sent into meetings in "that state" anyway .. ie out of it

Remember randy phillips is himself on tape saying he checked the 50 shows with Tome (NOT MJ!!).. its on video!!

Very true, ANY company can be ruthless (and many are). What I don't realize is why a supposedly good businessman would let someone sign him up for dozens of shows he didn't want to perform. Away from the stage for 8 years and he doesn't even know what the heck he's going to be doing for his big comeback?

again .. this good businessman line.. what in the last ten years suggests MJ was a good businessman?? i dont get this.. people are still clinging on to this from the 80's.. its a thing of the past

 

[MJJ2theMAX]

True, but, when it comes to his health I just can't see him immediatly deciding to "settle for less". Here is a devoted dad who knows that his entire career and future of his family hinges entirely on him being well and healthy.

If MJ really felt his "body is the machine that fuels this whole business" why wouldn't he spare no expense for a QUALIFIED doctor??

But for MJ to instead, right off the bat insist on a doctor who is uncredentialed in the State of California, NOT even an Anesthesiologist, and he'd already been-there-done-that with people who "needed" money, plus MJ has been "under" enough times to know what equipment is needed and opted for a doctor who had none of it? Plus, MJ knows the shady record business better than anybody so surely he would know the doctor was in a financially vulnerable position too as far as being in a position to betray him, afterall, he'd been betrayed SO MUCH and was thought by some to be (understandably) pretty "paranoid". He's gonna insist on having some broke (which MJ probably was aware of) "Quack" (which MJ could also see by the doc not having proper equipment) to put him "under"?? KNOWING his breathing has to probably STOP?

I dunno but one thing I agree on for sure. This whole thing makes ya go :doh: ! Nothing makes any sense!!

I feel it goes back to the Diprivan story being a bunch of bunk.

yeh but take a step back..... why would anyone is their right mind take propofol to sleep? youre saying MJ would never hire a dodgy doctor.. would never do anything to put his health at risk.. yet the fact is.. he was letting doctos administer propofol to "put him out"

yep Dr Murray may hve said "sure thatll be fine"... but MJ knows that most other doctors wouldnt touch this with a bargpole.. hence MJ insisting on Murray.. MJ must be well used to "doctor shooping" and he found a doctor stupid enough to give him what he wants

MJ clearly WANT thinking straight.... think about someones mental state that is using propofol to sleep.....
you arent meant to eat 6 hours before anasthetic..if is a real assault on the body, i know when ive been "put under" just for a couple of hours.. it takes DAYS to start feeling more normal... its only meant for short operations.. you cant breathe unaided... MJ must have known all this.. yet was in such a desperate state (or had become so dependant on anasthesia) that he was willing to risk everything

AEG watched his health fading.. covered him in blankets, cut his chicken, HELD HIM UP... he did 2 good rehearsals.. then he died

 

[AmberR]

Only MJ knows what had happened from over night through morning. ((Truth was triumphed by MJ, every time he was framed. Now he is gone, nothing going to come out anymore.

 

[Mechi]

yeh but take a step back..... why would anyone is their right mind take propofol to sleep? youre saying MJ would never hire a dodgy doctor.. would never do anything to put his health at risk.. yet the fact is.. he was letting doctos administer propofol to "put him out"

yep Dr Murray may hve said "sure thatll be fine"... but MJ knows that most other doctors wouldnt touch this with a bargpole.. hence MJ insisting on Murray.. MJ must be well used to "doctor shooping" and he found a doctor stupid enough to give him what he wants

MJ clearly WANT thinking straight.... think about someones mental state that is using propofol to sleep.....
you arent meant to eat 6 hours before anasthetic..if is a real assault on the body, i know when ive been "put under" just for a couple of hours.. it takes DAYS to start feeling more normal... its only meant for short operations.. you cant breathe unaided... MJ must have known all this.. yet was in such a desperate state (or had become so dependant on anasthesia) that he was willing to risk everything

AEG watched his health fading.. covered him in blankets, cut his chicken, HELD HIM UP... he did 2 good rehearsals.. then he died

you're getting quiet close to the question if an addict is to blame for their addiction.
And that's for sure an interesting but still a whole different discussion.

But still I think we should differ between alcolhol which you get legally in the stores, drugs you're getting on the streets already illegally and then again drugs which are only to get if prescribed.

Someone must have started this, with telling Michael "you can take this medication. It will help you."
Michael didn't studied pharmakology nor medicine... I am pretty sure someone told him and someone started this. And that must have been a doctor cuz how to get propofol if you're not.

See I beg to differ, Michael was not someone who wanted to get high. He was not someone who wanted to forget about his poor life. He was someone seeking for help with a problem of health and/or psychological origin.

And then Michael got addicted probably... when you make this experience how nice and easy you're helped and when everything went well a first time, a second and then a few times... you just want it again and the more often you have this experience the less your conciouss for the danger you're in will do an alarm.

But the doctors saw only the money in the game.
How I can know this? Pretty simple:
Propofol is not used for ppl with sleeping problems or even worse suffering insomnia.

Yeah maybe Michael would have gone to the next then. Yeah maybe would have known how to get what he's asking for.
It all doesn't matter.
A responsible doctor with a tiny little bit of professional dignity would have not given it to him.

Some doctors couldn't resist.
It's their responsibility!

Michael was not looking for drugs initially. He was looking for help and there's the difference.

Without those doctors (used by AEG or not, maybe bribed with a lot of money or not, who cares) Michael Jackson would still be alive.

Don't blame Michaels mental state... he was the victim of doctors NOT knowing their professional duty. Go and ask these doctors for their dignity... oh and when you are on that way, warn their patients.

And yes AEG watched his health fading, we agree on that... and they did nothing to stop him... they tried everything to keep him going... This is like pushing a car without brakes over the edge so it can run downhill... why?... well follow the money!

I am not clear about Frank DiLeo in all this. I could even imagine Michael got him back cuz he simply didn't feel well at all with this Thome Thome guy anymore and he just didn't know anyone else of trust.
And I could also imagine FrankDiLeo noticed how 'out of it' Michael was... and when he got to know the slave-contract and saw no escape... he found his way to at least asure him his share somehow also.

Because Michael not willing to fullfill this slave contract would have not brought Mr. DiLeo this money anymore not shortly and not in the far away future most likely... well this is wild speculation on my side but for sure the future will tell.

 

[Autumn II]

You all make very good points, with a lot of thought behind them. But consider this? What if the stories about Michael and his regular use of Propofol were a LIE or cover-story? We are assuming Nurse Lee was telling the truth, that Michael begged her for Propofol. Can't prove this, but her body-language and eye-rolling told me she was not speaking truthfully. She almost looked SCARED to me, and she came out of virtully nowhere. WHY was Michael asking her for Propofol? Was he? Nurses can't prescribe medication! Only doctors.

Just for the sake of speculation, which is what we DO here, what if Michael had little connection to Propofol? It's a perfect murder weapon. Acts incredibly fast to put a person out.

Did y'all know there is ANOTHER use for Propofol? Rapid, virtually painless detox. It's a "rich-folks" de-tox. If a person is addicted to narcotics, the withdrawal can be excruciating. But not if the person is ASLEEP. Propofol is used in rehab clinics (and maybe in rich folks homes) to DE-TOX. Just throwing that out there. S. O.S., maybe you'll have something to say about this new fact? Keep going!

So here is a speculation (and only that. Just thinking here. . .). What if Michael often used IVs to rehydrate his skinny little body after hard workouts such as rehearsals (i.e. couldn't drink enough Gator Aid). So, he's got an IV line in place. Might even have taken a light sedative. Speculating here. . . . Murray puts Propofol into the IV line and it knocks Michael out in seconds. After that, he's helpless, and he dies. Murray probably panics at the enormity, and finality, of what he's done and makes stupid mistakes, trying to make it look like he genuinely tried to save Michael. Suppose he has a huge bank-roll waiting for him in an offshore account?

But what about Nurse Lee? Maybe AEG (just speculating) masterminded the whole thing, and expected Murray to take the fall. There has to be SOME explanation for Michael's death. They pay the nurse to turn the investigation to Propofol. Then stories are told about how Michael craved this drug. I just can't imagine anyone using a general anesthetic for a sleep-aid, or at least certainly not nightly. It makes a person groggy and it would take days to recover. Using Propofol makes Murray look like an incompetant doctor, but not necessarily a murderer. He'd lose his license, but not necessarily go to jail. He was already on the brink of losing his home anyway, had huge financial problems.

So maybe someone can weave all this into a scenario? I may not be wrong. . . .

Vic

 

[Mechi]

You can be right Vic.

But I think propofol is especially known for its very reduced up to non side effects if administered correctly Vic.

I asked my family doctor about it. And he said over here it is known especially for those operations for which ppl don't even have to stay in the hospital anymore. Patients go to hospital, get operated, get up after operation and go home.
My doc said also there's easily better stuff if you want to kill someone. Something anyone would have a hard time to prove.
However propofol will not be easily found if you're not looking for it.

Was propofol at all talked about before this nurse came into the game? Maybe she has more Dr. Murray and/or other ppl to fear?
I don't know as a nurse in a hospital you can get medication to some extend always also. Sure they have to take everything on record what they take from the shelf... but there's always some mistakes in the record and there's always a possibility to get some. For sure not as easy as a doctor though.

I think I once got propofol also when I had an operation on my knee some years ago. It felt really only like sleeping and pretty normally getting awake. I went home like a 15 minutes after I got awake... well accompanied by my Dad as I couldn't walk normally or drive of cuz.
But well I don't really know about concentration... what I got was something named diprisomething but my doc told me in there's propofol the anestetic.

It was not like formerly known when you get an anestetic, ppl getting dizzy, throwing up etc. etc. With former operations I had so many problems... wheeeew. But this one really non.


So if used as a 'sleeping aid' I can bet you can pretty easy get psychologically addicted to it. Not physically though. Because you don't have to wait for it to work or something and your psych can't stop it also... as you're imediately 'asleep'.

Yeah and I knew it's used for harmless and painless withdrawl from strong drugs.
I know also doing so will make ppl most likely go back to their addiction sooner or later also.
Works the same... 'I can easily do it again' they're telling themselves... their conciousness for danger is not giving alarm where it's needed anymore also.

 

[bgz]

quoting Victoria83:

"I just can't imagine anyone using a general anesthetic for a sleep-aid, or at least certainly not nightly. It makes a person groggy and it would take days to recover."

I have to concur with Mechi, Diprivan/Propofol does not work like other anesthetics, it does not cause prolonged drowsiness. That's why so much is being written in medical journals now about interns and residents illicitely(sp) using it. I've had it also, you are awake within minutes, and very little grogginess; within a really short period of time you're pretty much back to normal, that's why it is being abused by medical people that have to sleep and then have to be mentally functional again rapidly. Basically it's a quick but often times dangerous "fix" if not done in a monitored situation because of it's ability to cause respiratory depression (even arrest) while it is INFUSING.

If Michael were receiving it say from 3am-9am, by the time he ate his breakfast he would be able to function quite normally around his children/house, etc. And by afternoon he could be going out and about, and get to rehearsals (especially if they started in the early evening). What clouds the picture is what else is in his system at the same time, especially any other type of pain/sleep/anxiety meds, now those could/would alter the equation far more than the Diprivan. And I'm certainly not inferring Michael was an "addict", but quite like a large portion of the general public that does use sleep/pain/anxiety meds legitimately, prescribed legitimately, and for legitimate reasons, and KNOWN by the physician(s) that are treating whatever issue.

When we admit people to the hospital, all currently taken prescribed meds are entered into the pharmacy knowledge bank. Perhaps some would be surprised, but the use of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, and pain control meds are taken by a large portion of the general public, honestly. It is not viewed as anything unusual at all, so it shouldn't be viewed as unusual if also true in Michael's case, especially knowing his previous injuries, stress, etc.

When it does become dangerous is when multiple docs are writing multiple prescriptions for different things without knowledge of what current medications are being taken/prescribed by other docs.