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Fred Astaire Influence on Smooth Criminal

Cool, Not only are there the obvious influences which can be seen in Smooth Criminal but also YRMW and even a little BOTDF
 
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This just goes to show that in the history of music making (and any type of art really) great artists influence others. So is Michael one big unoriginal copycat since he was influenced by Fred Astaire? No. So why is Chris Brown one?

Sorry if this is off-topic. My post could go ahead and be deleted/edited.
 
There's a big difference between what Michael does and what Chris does. That's all I'm going to say because I don't know how many times I've wasted my breath trying to explain it in other threads.
 
MoOnWaLk4MeBaBy said:
This just goes to show that in the history of music making (and any type of art really) great artists influence others. So is Michael one big unoriginal copycat since he was influenced by Fred Astaire? No. So why is Chris Brown one?

Sorry if this is off-topic. My post could go ahead and be deleted/edited.
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Well the difference between Michael Jackson, and Chris Brown, is that even though Michael was influenced by Fred for Smooth Criminal, he also did put his own style that makes you know it is Michael and not Fred for the Smooth Criminal Video. While on the other hand, Chris Brown is not original by always doing something related, or in a copy of Michael that you don't see Chris Brown at all.
Now don't get me wrong I think Chris has an amazing voice, and a lot of talent. I just truly hope he finds his own style soon.
 
It floors me that some people do not see the difference between MJ being influenced by people and some of the people who have been influenced by MJ. It is nothing alike. Typing out the difference between James Brown influencing MJ and MJ influencing Chris Brown is just an unnecessary headache at this point. It's... not the same at all. Stop bringing it up. The End.
 
MoOnWaLk4MeBaBy said:
This just goes to show that in the history of music making (and any type of art really) great artists influence others. So is Michael one big unoriginal copycat since he was influenced by Fred Astaire? No. So why is Chris Brown one?

Sorry if this is off-topic. My post could go ahead and be deleted/edited.
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Chris Brown is one because every single thing he does is an attempt to emulate Michael Jackson.

THe kid doesn't even try to draw influence from anyone else. Just Michael. Every video, every performance, every dance move, every show, every movement, the kid is obsessive with it.

If you can't see how what Michael did is different from what Chris Brown is doing, I can't help you.
 
Just as I was saying, general concept of Smooth Criminal with time era clothing and once specific movement was used by Jackson.

However, rendition is completely different -- different choreography, different lighting, different camerawork. Jackson's Smooth Criminal is probably stronger with all those components.
 
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Michael's been influenced by Fred Astaire, he has mentioned that a number of times. He had a lot of respect for him and was over the moon when he called Michael to say how great his performance of Billie Jean at Motown 25 was.

Smooth Criminal was a nod to Fred Astaire and the musicals of the 30's and 40's but Michael incorporated his own style into it with new choreography and was a lot more theatrical. Michael paid respect to Astaire and the great musicals of his time whilst elevating it and raising it to another level.
 
AGB said:
Michael's been influenced by Fred Astaire, he has mentioned that a number of times. He had a lot of respect for him and was over the moon when he called Michael to say how great his performance of Billie Jean at Motown 25 was.

Smooth Criminal was a nod to Fred Astaire and the musicals of the 30's and 40's but Michael incorporated his own style into it with new choreography and was a lot more theatrical. Michael paid respect to Astaire and the great musicals of his time whilst elevating it and raising it to another level.
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Very true. MJ did much FS dancing when he was in the Jacksons, he also did Frank Sinatra. MJ loves old style music, and they loved him too. Both Fred and Frank loved MJ and acknowledged him as one of the greatest.
 
I agree with AGB - we all know Michael was influenced by Fred Astaire amongst others. In the video you can clearly see how he was influenced and yet by watching Smooth Criminal you can also clearly see how he took everything in a different and unique direction.

Now that I'm done stating the obvious :) I just want to thank Mo_Rizwan for posting the video - it was a lot fun to watch!
 
EssenceOfMagic said:
I've never seen MJ breakdance. Chris does- therefore not everything he does is emulated from Michael :rolleyes:
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Michael Jackson does break dance. Pop-locking is a part of break dancing. Hell, the "moonwalk" is break dancing too.

One thing Michael doesn't do that Chris does, is backflips and crumping. That's about all I can think of.

But Chris Brown does not even DO THAT anymore. When he first came out he did. Now, he's totally jacking Michael.
 
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The difference between Michael being influenced by the likes of James Brown,Fred Astaire and don't forget the amazing Sammy Davis Jr, is that Michael has his own unique style of dancing and moves fluidly from one dance style to another in a flash. Meaning Michael's created a new style of dancing from his influences.

Michael tends to add an extra touch of magic and engery his dance moves that his influences never had, ie no one moves with the grace and speed of Michael Jackson. And no one would think of of add the Moonwalk after a James Brown spin and a Fred Astaire pose like Michael did on his famous Billie Jean dance routine on the Motown 25. The likes of Chris Brown though "technically" good are just technical (and also very choreographed) dancers with no style or real knowledge of dancing to be able to pull from different influences. You could say pop stars like Chris Brown are influenced just by Michael Jackson and the influences of Michael Jackson which they will have got from Michael. I doubt the likes of Chris Brown are influenced by anyone Michael's not influenced by which is why they are not original. Michael brought James Brown, Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr, Robot/Lockin, the Moonwalk and broadway dancing etc in the mainstream pop music, mixed black and white styles of dancing in to a unique way that all of todays stars and choreographers will never be able to do.
 
The thing is, Michael carved out a totally distinct and unique style of dance which can be solely associated and recognized as his. Steps don't count. I'm sure that every step you see performed, by anyone, you could find performed by another at some point before. What matters is how well you put the steps together and how you put them together over all. Michael has taken steps already done, but what seperates him from someone like Chris Brown is, he managed to figure out a way and an order of executing them which gives the overall appearance of his dancing a unique and original look. The sequence of his steps is unlike anyones before. If you saw Michael's sillouhette dancing, you would know immediately who it was. If you saw Chris' sillouhette dancing, it could be anyone, you wouldn't know who the hell it was. Chris doesn't have a unique or dercernable style. He either jacks Michael's style or he moves like any typical street dancer.

The other thing that seperates Michael from someone like Chris is just pure talent. Michael moves with a percisian, a fluidity and an ease which someone like Chris could never even hope to move with. And Michael can actually imitate styles of movement, not just steps, but he can duplicate the way someone dances, their asthetic appearance. Chris will take Michael's steps and perform them, and it's sloppy and misses the subtly of Michael's execution. Chris isn't aware of what Michael is doing. He just sees the step as one, giant sweeping movement and performs it as such. But if you ever really watch Michael, every single step is broken up in to interim steps, smaller steps, which connect each pose to the other. That's why Michael is really such an accurate dancer, because everything is so controled and measured and no movement is wasted. And he connects those subtle steps seamlessly, giving his dancing the most fluid overall appearance.

And when you see Michael take a step from Astaire, he will execute it with the same form, the same look of grace and speed, because he sees deeper then just the step's surface, he sees how the step is being performed, he understands what it is the dancer is doing section by section. Not on a technical level, as in being able to define it with words or expalin it, but he sees everything that's being done, down to the most minut details and he does it back. That's why Michael can see a step once and perform it exactly as is, because he understands it from inside out, even if he can't explain why. Michael does justice to the steps he takes from other dancers because he himself is the most naturally gifted dancer I've ever seen. He has an innate understanding and ability. Chris just ruins it when he touches Michael's stuff. But Chris isn't an artist. He's only okay as a dancer. Technically, he's only okay. He's sloppy and lacks grace. He has pretty good speed, but as he gets older, he'll slow, and that's his only real attribute as a dancer, because he's too tall and lanky as it is, his lines aren't good and he isn't nearly as coordinated or controled as Michael. As he starts to fill out, he's going to slow down. He'll have nothing to fall back on because he just isn't exceptionally gifted.

There is just a world of difference between the two.
 
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