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I think the family is giving Murray his defense

yaazgurl

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By constantly talking about Michael being on drugs and failed interventions and not making it clear that Michael wasn't apparently on anything other than what Murray gave him when he died. According to the autopsy, his organs were not damaged by years of drug use but the media wants to portray a drug addict and the family goes along with it. They are giving Murray a defense and giving the potential jury reasonable doubt.
 
But the prosecution has a very compelling and winnable case against Murray:

1) ACUTE intoxication of Propofol, which means there was malice to kill MJ, or gross negligence

2) Organs were healthy - not indicative of any addictive abuse.

So the Jacksons can talk all they want. The DA has the coroner's report which has the real evidence.
 
Any smart lawyer would call Janet as a defense witness. She is perfect.
 
MJStorm said:
Any smart lawyer would call Janet as a defense witness. She is perfect.
Click to expand...

I hate to agree with you, but you're right.

What she said about "interventions" and "denial" isn't indicative what is in the Coroner's report.

Coroner's report says HOMICIDE, not SUICIDE nor OVERDOSE.

HOMICIDE.
 
Having periods of painkiller addiction, because he was in terrible pain, or taking sleeping medication administered by a full time personal physician where the patient needs to be monitored 24/7 and is not, and 47 minutes lapse before 911 is called, CPR isperformed incorrectly, refusal to go immediately to the hospital which is 3 minutes away, refusal to sign the death certificate, not mentioning all medicines given, hiding the propofol, tempearture of the bedroom very high, etc.....
The doctor isn't given a defense in my opinion. Janet is realistic in acknowledging where they tried to help, wanted to intervene, but failed. This does not give the doctor a pass to walk free. Too many mistakes have been made and too many cover ups, IMO.
 
Its unintentally though. Btw, i didn't see the janet interview members are complaining about.
 
i think it's best for us not to discuss this...we'll just get in trouble...two threads over this have already been closed...but..take heart..whatever you feel, keep feeling it...but i think we'll have to feel it in silence, for the sake of peace on this forum.
 
I word of mouth about intervention is not an good defense. Especially since Michael was injected by the drugs personally by his doctor. I posted before and I will do so again to drive this point:


John Adam Belushi (January 24, 1949 – March 5, 1982) was an Albanian comedian, actor, and musician notable for his work on Saturday Night Live, National Lampoon's Animal House, and The Blues Brothers.

On March 5, 1982, Belushi was found dead in his room at Bungalow #3 of the Chateau Marmont on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, California. The cause of death was a speedball, a combined injection of cocaine and heroin. His death was investigated by forensic pathologist Dr. Ryan Norris among others, and while the findings were disputed, it was officially ruled a drug-related accident.

Two months later, Cathy Smith admitted in an interview with the National Enquirer that she had been with Belushi the night of his death and had given him the fatal speedball shot. After the appearance of the article "I Killed Belushi" in the Enquirer edition of June 29, 1982, the case was reopened. Smith was extradited from Toronto, arrested and charged with first-degree murder. A plea bargain arrangement reduced the charges to involuntary manslaughter, and she served 18 months in prison.

John, god rest his soul, was a very bad drug addict. If Cathy did not give him that speedball, he most likely would had given it to himself and OD. Despite that, Cathy spent time in jail for injecting him with the drugs that killed him.

Murray is a doctor, he should know better. Not to mention he try to cover the crime.
 
steve demon said:
But it wasn't a 'cocktail' of drugs that killed him, it was strictly the propofol, which Murray supplied and injected Michael with.
Click to expand...

Yes, but Yaazgurl has a point.

The defense can say that MJ was a drug addict and he was the one that forced Murray to give him more Propofol. The defense could force Janet or any family member to the witness stand and restate what she said in her interview today about the intervention attempts.
 
closed threads are annoying..

I wanted to talk about janet's interview.

i want to say i love how they cut the clip where paris say's "daddy has been the best father anyone can ever imagine"

ugh.
 
no doubt the siblings will be called as hostile defense witnesses .
 
This thread should not be closed, I mean we won't have anything to talk about. A long as we are respectful there shouldn't be a problem.
 
steve demon said:
But it wasn't a 'cocktail' of drugs that killed him, it was strictly the propofol, which Murray supplied and injected Michael with.
Click to expand...


Actually it was a cocktail. He had several different drugs in his body when he died. However, there were only drugs that Murray himself gave him, there were all sedatives, and propofol with the primary cause with another sedatives being a contributor. So, it was not completely wrong, just misleading.
 
I---oh i fixed it! woohoo....

ok anyway I think it also has to do with the times he administered these drugs. Being a Doctor he should know how long a drug takes to leave the body.
 
There is no defense for a DOCTOR who has studied MEDICINE for administering PROPOFOL as helping medication for insomnia.



... seriously however Michael is painted now by the family, friends or so called friends... there's no such escape for the Dr. don't let noone fool you, he's not just a someone around, he has studied and he was hired to keep Mr. Jackson healthy.
 
Mechi said:
There is no defense for a DOCTOR who has studied MEDICINE for administering PROPOFOL as helping medication for insomnia.



... seriously however Michael is painted now by the family, friends or so called friends... there's no such escape for the Dr. don't let noone fool you, he's not just a someone around, he has studied and he was hired to keep Mr. Jackson healthy.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, a really good lawyer can play with words. there are fans on here who use two words to describe the same definition. how much more can a lawyer do damage? a good lawyer may be able to make word of mouth work, as well, from family, friends, and so called friends. the better the wordsmith, the better the chance of a lawyer's success. a lawyer can make a mountain out of a molehill, if the lawyer tries hard enough. it's proven that people can look at things in multiple ways, just like people on here can look at the Janet Jackson interview in more than one way, depending on the observer. how much more can a lawyer do? i fear, much more.
 
End of story will always be... even if Michael was a drug addict as some want him to look now... does it matter? Do drug addicts deserve it to be murdered??? what kind of logic are some ppl here led to follow?

Michael was killed by an irresponsible doctor... probably more than only one doctor.

Propofol is nothing to treat insomnia. End of story.
The responsibilty is with the doctor. End of story.

Stop doctors making money with rich patients!!! that's the core to me. And I'd make it a huge shining example there with Dr. Murray... for that at least half doctors in Hollywood will have to change their panties soon for peeing in such. The problem is the system behind it... and even Janet is often enough a victim of the system behind it.
Someone tries to keep the fans busy with talking the surface?! maybe?
 
vncwilliam said:
unfortunately, a really good lawyer can play with words. there are fans on here who use two words to describe the same definition. how much more can a lawyer do damage? a good lawyer may be able to make word of mouth work, as well, from family, friends, and so called friends. the better the wordsmith, the better the chance of a lawyer's success. a lawyer can make a mountain out of a molehill, if the lawyer tries hard enough. it's proven that people can look at things in multiple ways, just like people on here can look at the Janet Jackson interview in more than one way, depending on the observer. how much more can a lawyer do? i fear, much more.
Click to expand...


Word of mouth does not prove nothing if you have physical evident. They have the tox, his personal medical information, and the autopsy that proves he did not have a serious drug problem. How is word of mouth going to counter all that physical evident.

That is like saying an eyewitness outweighs DNA evident. People can cry drug addict until they are blue in the face, but if there is no evident of it, you have nothing.

Even if he was, look John Belushi case again. He was a hardcore drug and Cathy still went to jail for injected illegal drugs into his system. Also, this is a doctor not John Smith who was doing a personal favor. He was hire to keep his patient healthy. First rule of being a doctor:

"Do no harm."

Since the patient is dead, he did alot of harm. There is also the fact he was train to give the drugs he did and then he actually try to hide his crime, which is must worst then him doing the act in question. Unless Murray gets the dream team of lawyers, he won't get off lightly.
 
Mechi said:
End of story will always be... even if Michael was a drug addict as some want him to look now... does it matter? Do drug addicts deserve it to be murdered??? what kind of logic are some ppl here led to follow?

Michael was killed by an irresponsible doctor... probably more than only one doctor.

Propofol is nothing to treat insomnia. End of story.
The responsibilty is with the doctor. End of story.

Stop doctors making money with rich patients!!! that's the core to me. And I'd make it a huge shining example there with Dr. Murray... for that at least half doctors in Hollywood will have to change their panties soon for peeing in such. The problem is the system behind it... and even Janet is often enough a victim of the system behind it.
Someone tries to keep the fans busy with talking the surface?! maybe?
Click to expand...



Murray is hardly an example, because what he did was just stupid. Most doctors just prescribe the drugs, not actually inject them with it. Which any doctor with any common sense would not do.

So, I highly doubt Hollywood doctors are taken note. Because anyone that dumb deserves to be in jail and they are most likely laughing at Murray stupidity.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Word of mouth does not prove nothing if you have physical evident. They have the tox, his personal medical information, and the autopsy that proves he did not have a serious drug problem. How is word of mouth going to counter all that physical evident.

That is like saying an eyewitness outweighs DNA evident. People can cry drug addict until they are blue in the face, but if there is no evident of it, you have nothing.

Even if he was, look John Belushi case again. He was a hardcore drug and Cathy still went to jail for injected illegal drugs into his system. Also, this is a doctor not John Smith who was doing a personal favor. He was hire to keep his patient healthy. First rule of being a doctor:

"Do no harm."

Since the patient is dead, he did alot of harm. There is also the fact he was train to give the drugs he did and then he actually try to hide his crime, which is must worst then him doing the act in question. Unless Murray gets the dream team of lawyers, he won't get off lightly.
Click to expand...

yeah? so what makes you suggest the idea of 'a dream team of lawyers'?
 
Ramona122003 said:
Murray is hardly an example, because what he did was just stupid. Most doctors just prescribe the drugs, not actually inject them with it. Which any doctor with any common sense would not do.

So, I highly doubt Hollywood doctors are taken note. Because anyone that dumb deserves to be in jail and they are most likely laughing at Murray stupidity.
Click to expand...

Well if you think Murray was 'just stupid' then we very much disagree.

Actually yes what happened on the 25th might have been an 'accident' but it's worth it to look into things even before the 25th... then again I don't know enough facts to get into this.

Still there is some malicious logic behind keeping someone dependant on yourself(as the one administering) and/or some drugs for making money to me obviously going on in Hollywood a hell lot instead of treating a physical or psychological problem. You can treat a problem or you can feed a problem.
And prescribing doctors as much as providing pharmacies should be held also much more responsible... but that's just my opinion.
 
vncwilliam said:
yeah? so what makes you suggest the idea of 'a dream team of lawyers'?
Click to expand...



Pray to God that he only get 18 mouths on a plea bargain. :)

Seriously though, Murray quite frankly have no defense that I can see. For reference lets add up the current facts.


-Doctor hire to care for the health of a patient

-Doctor gives drug to patient that he was not train to give

-Doctor gives cocktail that is potently dangerous to wean patient off of a drug. Although, none of the drugs given are good for sleep and are just as dangerous as the drug that the patient was asking for

-Patient supposedly begs for more drugs, although obviously dope up from other drugs

-Doctor gives in to patient and give them the drug

-Doctor leaves the room for 45 minutes

-Doctor comes back and see patient not breathing

-Doctor does CPR, although he does so incorrectly

-Doctor runs downstairs and asked for help almost an hour after patient stopped breathing

-Helps arrives and doctor lies about drugs given to patient

-Patient rush to the hospital and dies

-Doctor goes to two police interview's and lie about drugs given and about timeline of events

-Doctor's bag is retrieve and it was hidden in the bathroom

-Doctor maintains he gave nothing that should had killed patient

-Police checks all drugs in the house under different names. Turns out all the name were register in patient's name, which disproves doctor shopping

-Tox shows only drugs given by the doctor is found

-Autopsy show patient to be healthy with no signs of drugs abuse

-Doctor admits to given all the drugs. Still says he gave nothing that should had killed patient


Well, anyone in law that can come up with a good defense to these facts? Also, keep in mind I am using Murray's own timeline of events. There is plenty of evident to suggest that Michael may already been dead and Murray was covering the crime.

They can call anyone they like, it hardly changes the facts. So, even if he had problems with drugs in the past, it does not effect what happen the day he died. How does having drug problems justices a doctor given a patient drugs? If anything, it makes it even worst, since you as a doctor had a responsibility to your patient and should had call for help if he was becoming an addict or was one.
 
Last edited:
Mechi said:
Well if you think Murray was 'just stupid' then we very much disagree.

Actually yes what happened on the 25th might have been an 'accident' but it's worth it to look into things even before the 25th... then again I don't know enough facts to get into this.

Still there is some malicious logic behind keeping someone dependant on yourself(as the one administering) and/or some drugs for making money to me obviously going on in Hollywood a hell lot instead of treating a physical or psychological problem. You can treat a problem or you can feed a problem.
And prescribing doctors as much as providing pharmacies should be held also much more responsible... but that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...


I do not disagree, I just think Murray is a poor example. He did more than just prescribe drugs, he actually injected him with it. Something most Hollywood doctors do not do. So, to use him an example would not really work because Murray took it a step beyond other doctors. Not to mention the face he was practically living with the guy.

What Murray did was just stupid, plain and simple. The Anna Nichole Smith's case it a much better example of the type of problem you mentioned.
 
vncwilliam said:
unfortunately, a really good lawyer can play with words. there are fans on here who use two words to describe the same definition. how much more can a lawyer do damage? a good lawyer may be able to make word of mouth work, as well, from family, friends, and so called friends. the better the wordsmith, the better the chance of a lawyer's success. a lawyer can make a mountain out of a molehill, if the lawyer tries hard enough. it's proven that people can look at things in multiple ways, just like people on here can look at the Janet Jackson interview in more than one way, depending on the observer. how much more can a lawyer do? i fear, much more.
Click to expand...

I accept your worries but then again we hopefully have this time a good DA who knows the use of 'objection, irrelevant.'

Actually it is quiet easy. Every patient is dependant on their doctor. Patients usually do not study medicine themselves before going to a doctor, that's why.
Make a jury and a judge feel their dependancy sitting there... do they believe their doctors? do they trust their doctors?

Honestly, I'm just a noone, but beginning this week I got seriously sick and I think Tuesday afternoon I went second time to the doc cuz pain medication and everything they gave me didn't work since Monday... I got an injection not at all knowing what... I was just in tears, in dispair cuz it felt like I couldn't breath anymore and asked them to stop it... to just stop it. I would have taken whatever...
Still the doc in the hospital made a call to my home doctor what to check what was lately prescribed to me, he asked my friend who was with me, what I took that very day maybe already. He asked me like three times what I took already and I did tell him honestly as I simply needed some true help. Still he asked again and again for that pain could have made me forget something.
Why this story???

The patient is in problems and/or pain.
There is where the responsibility of a doctor starts treating a patient.

Dr. Murray is a doctor of medicine.

Dr. Murray administered Propofol.

Propofol is the cause of death.

Propofol is no way indicated to treat insomnia.
(... sheeesh not even in pharma-testing about that or something.)

Murray is guilty.




I don't really care what anyone says and maybe makes Michael look this or that. :no: 'objection: irrelevant'
 
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