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Invincible Voted As Best Album In 2000's Decade: Billboard Readers

I just wanted to say that I love Invincible :wub: It's not my favourite album from Michael, but I love it to pieces!!

Some of my favourite MJ songs are on that album...Speechless, Whatever Happens...

Ok, leaving now...don't want to get stuck in another Invincible debate :p Just wanted to add my two cents :p

But YAY though :)
 
Hey hey,

I'd just like to throw something out there:

personal preference.

We all have one. It won't be the same as someone else's. As long as someone loves Invincible all the way through, there will be someone who like almost all of it, or none of it. Everyone is entitled to that and trying to change other peoples' preferences is futile in a thread like this. Let them have it and be content on your way or engage in some analysis to understand viewpoints better. :)
 
samhabib said:
I meant those songs, in my opinion, were saccharin and weak. Some of the lyrics were simply embarrassing- "Its as though I'm standing in... The place called hallowed ground". The fact that you think a demo sounds better than them speaks volumes.
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It speaks more volumes than anything else. Which is why I focused my emphasis on these demoes outdoing studio record to say that this wasn't MJ at his best, and to say that MJ didn't lose his "touch" per se.
 
StarSecret said:
Hey hey,

I'd just like to throw something out there:

personal preference.

We all have one. It won't be the same as someone else's. As long as someone loves Invincible all the way through, there will be someone who like almost all of it, or none of it. Everyone is entitled to that and trying to change other peoples' preferences is futile in a thread like this. Let them have it and be content on your way or engage in some analysis to understand viewpoints better. :)
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Well I for one see nothing wrong in discussing and rationalizing the other point of view. I'm not doing it out of hate... It's actually fun to see what the other side's points. Who knows? Maybe they'll convince me instead!
 
ASIS said:
Well I for one see nothing wrong in discussing and rationalizing the other point of view. I'm not doing it out of hate... It's actually fun to see what the other side's points. Who knows? Maybe they'll convince me instead!
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I agree! I said that too :)
As long as it's respectful and open it can be really eye opening :D

I actually like threads like this that focus on the music and really get down into the different ways to approach it, they're fun.
 
ASIS said:
It speaks more volumes than anything else. Which is why I focused my emphasis on these demoes outdoing studio record to say that this wasn't MJ at his best, and to say that MJ didn't lose his "touch" per se.
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I don't think Beautiful Girl can be compared to anything from Michael's golden era. The lyrics are incomplete, the music is completely synthetic and the vocals (other than the wonderful backing vocals) are mediocre.

He was singing better and more adult ballads twenty years earlier - Lady In My Life fir example.

I don't think he lost 'his touch', I just think he lost confidence in his own abilities. He stopped relying on his own other-worldly talent and started trying to make music that was 'trend' driven, ie. Rodney Jerkins, Dr. Freeze, Santana, etc. Suddenly a Michael Jackdon record was only definitively a Michael Jackson record because it had Michael Jackson's vocals on it. There was a time that you could hear a Michael Jackson record and every part of it - the drum patterns, horn arrangements, vocals - lead and backing - was intrinsically a Michael Jackson record.
 
StarSecret said:
I agree! I said that too :)
As long as it's respectful and open it can be really eye opening :D

I actually like threads like this that focus on the music and really get down into the different ways to approach it, they're fun.
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Exactly. How boring life would be if we all had the same opinions! I sometimes get the impression from some Michael Jackson fans that you either have to love everything and anything that Michael did or 'you're a hater'! Which is cult-like behaviour. People have different opinions. That's all.
 
samhabib said:
I don't think Beautiful Girl can be compared to anything from Michael's golden era. The lyrics are incomplete, the music is completely synthetic and the vocals (other than the wonderful backing vocals) are mediocre.

He was singing better and more adult ballads twenty years earlier - Lady In My Life fir example.

I don't think he lost 'his touch', I just think he lost confidence in his own abilities. He stopped relying on his own other-worldly talent and started trying to make music that was 'trend' driven, ie. Rodney Jerkins, Dr. Freeze, Santana, etc. Suddenly a Michael Jackdon record was only definitively a Michael Jackson record because it had Michael Jackson's vocals on it. There was a time that you could hear a Michael Jackson record and every part of it - the drum patterns, horn arrangements, vocals - lead and backing - was intrinsically a Michael Jackson record.
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Yeah that's all I wanted to know that's all. I completely agree with you on all accounts. I got the impression before that you were thinking that MJ lost his talent. Which is why I started this argument in the first place. The MAIN reason why Invincible is shafted aside is not because of the songs themselves (they are good songs), but they are simply not MJ songs. They have no relation what so ever to the man.
Beautiful Girl, for instance, is all MJ. Yes, the lyrics are incomplete, the music is computerized, etc. But it's an MJ song, and it shows. Beautiful Girl had amazing potential to become a fantastic record. It's a shame it didn't go any further really.

But yeah, even that phone interview MJ said this was the toughest project he ever worked on, and that he only got 16 records which he found "acceptable"... so yeah.. I don't think there's anything more to say.
 
ASIS said:
Yeah that's all I wanted to know that's all. I completely agree with you on all accounts. I got the impression before that you were thinking that MJ lost his talent. Which is why I started this argument in the first place. The MAIN reason why Invincible is shafted aside is not because of the songs themselves (they are good songs), but they are simply not MJ songs. They have no relation what so ever to the man.
Beautiful Girl, for instance, is all MJ. Yes, the lyrics are incomplete, the music is computerized, etc. But it's an MJ song, and it shows. Beautiful Girl had amazing potential to become a fantastic record. It's a shame it didn't go any further really.

But yeah, even that phone interview MJ said this was the toughest project he ever worked on, and that he only got 16 records which he found "acceptable"... so yeah.. I don't think there's anything more to say.
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Yeah that's why I was surprised by someone elses comments that Michael 'loved' Invincible. I got the feeling that he was reluctant to release ANYTHING under Sony and anything that was 'acceptable' would do - just to complete his contractual obligations.

I remember that MJ Day event where he spoke about the last album he had to release with Sony being a greatest hits package and that he'd add one more song ('any old song' I think he calls it) to complete his contract. That album was, I believe, 'Number Ones' - the 'any old song' being the weak 'One More Chance' - but it gives you an insight into how the man was thinking. Pretty much "I Want Out!".
 
i think we really need to take it for what it is, Its never going to change, invincible is invincible, take it or leave it. Michael would feel like he had dissapointed his fans with you guys talking like this, sometimes we expect too much of him
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
i think we really need to take it for what it is, Its never going to change, invincible is invincible, take it or leave it. Michael would feel like he had dissapointed his fans with you guys talking like this, sometimes we expect too much of him
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I think Michael was an adult and had opinions of his own. I don't think he'd be disappointed with his fans having opinions of their own.
 
I love Speechless, You are My Life, You Rock My world and the Lost Children the most from the album. I think if it seemed different than other albums maybe Michael was trying new things and he grew as a person too. He became a father, got married and divorced and had other things he dealt with. I don't think Michael would put out an album he didn't want or work hard on. He was a perfectionist. It was after Sony did their games and not promoting it the way they should have that Michael didn't want to give them anything.

I am glad it is getting some recognition and spotlight on it so that people will want to check it out and see for themselves.
 
marebear said:
I love Speechless, You are My Life, You Rock My world and the Lost Children the most from the album. I think if it seemed different than other albums maybe Michael was trying new things and he grew as a person too. He became a father, got married and divorced and had other things he dealt with. I don't think Michael would put out an album he didn't want or work hard on. He was a perfectionist. It was after Sony did their games and not promoting it the way they should have that Michael didn't want to give them anything.

I am glad it is getting some recognition and spotlight on it so that people will want to check it out and see for themselves.
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couldnt agree more, some people go past not liking it, and come across as having a problem with it
 
Outstanding!!!!! I love Invincible. I think the album is very underrated. This is great news. And for This Is It to be rated #2 of 2009, this is just wonderful. I love the entire album, but Speechless, Break of Dawn, Whatever Happens, 2000 Watts, Don't Walk Away stand out; well ok I love them all. :)

Nice Christmas present to read this.

"I'll never let you part, for you're always in my heart" :angel:
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
you seem to have some inner hatred for this album michael worked very very hard for, its getting me down
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No. I openly said I hated it. Nothing inner about that.

Am I not allowed an opinion? Or am I only allowed to say 'it's great'? Like I said, this attitude is cult-like. Everyones entitled to an opinion. Your opinion doesn't get me down. Mine shouldn't get you down.
 
samhabib said:
No. I openly said I hated it. Nothing inner about that.

Am I not allowed an opinion? Or am I only allowed to say 'it's great'? Like I said, this attitude is cult-like. Everyones entitled to an opinion. Your opinion doesn't get me down. Mine shouldn't get you down.
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yes, but cant you at least try and show it some love for michael, remember, its the last full album he ever gave us
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
yes, but cant you at least try and show it some love for michael, remember, its the last full album he ever gave us
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Are you being serious? 'Show it some love for Michael'? I've been a fan for 26 years. I don't need to show my allegiance to Michael by loving sub-standard work whether it's the first album he ever released or it's the last. It doesn't make you more of a fan for loving it. Michael would have wanted his fans to be honest about their opinions, not lie to him in order to curry favour with him. He was a man. An adult man.
 
samhabib said:
Are you being serious? 'Show it some love for Michael'? I've been a fan for 26 years. I don't need to show my allegiance to Michael by loving sub-standard work whether it's the first album he ever released or it's the last. It doesn't make you more of a fan for loving it. Michael would have wanted his fans to be honest about their opinions, not lie to him in order to curry favour with him. He was a man. An adult man.
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we will just have to agree to differ :)
 
i dug the slow cuts but the fast ones didn't do a thing for me at all.i feel the same now that i did back in 01 about this album.
 
It needed to be voted because it is.

I'm not being bias either, I cannot believe how underrated this album was
it has some of the most well written songs I have ever heard in my life.

"Speechless" "Cry" "You are my life" are songs only Michael can perfect.
 
samhabib said:
Here you are. 8.40 he starts talking about the song but it sounds like he eventually gets a prompt off-air at 9.55 with the title of the song. There's a few seconds where he's thinking of the tracks name! Hardly inspires confidence in the profuct does it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TMC2RSlTTo&feature=youtube_gdata
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That is hilarious.

You can hear him laugh because he can't remember the title. I can picture him now rushing to pick the CD up to look at the title.

You're right, it hardly inspires confidence. I get the impression MJ didn't have a lot to do with a lot of those co-written tracks.

You're wrong about Speechless though. That's a beautiful record and one of the few tracks that I would hold up against his previous work.
 
MattyJam said:
That is hilarious.

You can hear him laugh because he can't remember the title. I can picture him now rushing to pick the CD up to look at the title.

You're right, it hardly inspires confidence. I get the impression MJ didn't have a lot to do with a lot of those co-written tracks.

You're wrong about Speechless though. That's a beautiful record and one of the few tracks that I would hold up against his previous work.
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Speechless could have been so much better. I don't like the intro sans music and some of the lyrics are, how can I say, embarrassing. And the crying/breaking voice at the end - he'd done that time and time again. It only worked the first time - She's Out Of My Life.
 
samhabib said:
Speechless could have been so much better. I don't like the intro sans music and some of the lyrics are, how can I say, embarrassing. And the crying/breaking voice at the end - he'd done that time and time again. It only worked the first time - She's Out Of My Life.
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Agreed.
 
Jabz said:
Agreed.
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No way. Speechless is perfect as it is. The accapella intro/outro is so unique and original and his vocal delivery is just soaring. I don't understand how any fan can not love this wonderful song.
 
MattyJam said:
No way. Speechless is perfect as it is. The accapella intro/outro is so unique and original and his vocal delivery is just soaring. I don't understand how any fan can not love this wonderful song.
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Same. If you take the time to really listen to it, and listen to the emotion in his voice. It's easy to overlook a lot of the time I find with Michael, because there's so much that's good to focus on, but if you really listen to the vocal, it's amazing.
 
I think it came too late. Why did not happen then? It's an album so wonderful and deserved to have received much praise/recognition at the time and not NOW. Michael was even more perfect in this album.

But as we say in Brazil: "Better late than never." :(
 
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