June 14th hearing thread: All discussion pertaining to todays hearing in this thread please

from facebook

I arrived at the courthouse in downtown Los Angeles around 9am. Several MJ fans were already in front of the building with banners…some from around the world which was amazing. At the same time, unknown to us arriving, there was another protest that came as far as Oakland for the alleged police brutality of Oscar Grant. They moved the officer’s who killed him down to Los Angeles because it was felt he couldn’t get a fair trial in Oakland. We were outnumbered support wise, but the supporters who came down for Grant, supported Michael as well…so we weren’t exactly alone.

Jump ahead to about 11:30am, by now there’s a lot of MJ fans, all catching up with each other, and supporting each other. The court clerk comes out to give lottery tickets for a seat in the courtroom, there were 10 seats up for grabs(more than last time). I got number#29…and to my surprise, I got in. I was in shock, and at the same time a little nervous because I was now going to have the chance to see everything up close and in person. Several other MJ fans like Amy, April, and Jamie also won tickets inside, so we were all there for each other and The Jackson family, who sat right in front of us. The mood as we made our way up to the 9th floor was tense. Most of the fans who couldn’t get into the courtroom, followed us upstairs…again a lot of love and support from everybody. Once the 10 of us walked inside the courtroom, the Jackson family was already sitting down. Katherine and Joe Jackson, LaToya, Randy, Jermaine, his wife, and 2 of his sons were all in attendance. As we made our way through, I made eye contact with Jermaine’s son Jermaine II and gave him a nod like “we’re here for you guys, and we love you” he smiled back. I also said hello to Joe Jackson; very emotional.

As things progressed on through the hearing, and you already know the story, it felt to me at the time that we were all in a no win situation. Conrad Murray’s lawyers….ugh…*trying to control my temper*…a lot of ass kissing, and statements that made us all gasp, like “Dr. Murray should have the right to continue helping people…” that got a reaction from us like “Are you ******* kidding me?...”. Then what made it worse, the lawyers for The People were so laxed. They weren’t as strong as Murray’s Lawyers, although they made good points with the Judge, they could’ve brought the heat on much better. Once the judge made it clear by reading the law(twice) of why he couldn’t overturn the 1st judge’s decision to not revoke Murray’s license, I got really depressed. He at least gave the option to the Attorney General’s office to file or start their own investigation if they wished.

What made it worse for me, was the fact BOTH sides were being so careless about setting a date for the next P. hearing. Someone from Murray’s camp suggested mid-November, another lawyer from the People’s side said somewhere between September and October. Finally, the Judge said “This is a very important case, not just for the Jackson Family, but for the people…we need to set something sooner” I couldn’t agree more…it’s bad enough we lost Michael almost a year ago, and still NOTHING has been done. The Jackson family more than deserves answers and so do the fans. A date was finally set for August 23rd at 12:30pm to see if there’s even enough evidence to go to trial…and with that, it was all over.

I came out of the courtroom emotionally drained, I couldn’t talk to anyone. Just felt so much sadness for The Jackson Family, and you could see it in their eyes. As they were leaving, not one sound from any of them. Once we were in the hallway, I could see all of our fellow MJ fans down the hall watching us come down; it was hard to look at anyone without feeling like I was gonna break down. A larger group of fans by now had congregated to the courthouse entrance downstairs and were waiting for us to come out. I talked with one reporter who was pro-Jackson, I had nothing to say to the other media. Some of us cried, most if not all hugged each other…and that meant so much to me. It really stands out to me more than ever, that if you can come to L.A. August 23rd or think you’ll be in the area at that time…PLEASE COME AND SUPPORT MICHAEL AND HIS FAMILY. They need us, and he doesn’t have a voice anymore. We really need all the support we can get please.

The one positive thing of the day that stood out to me, was later in the afternoon after a group of us had gone to eat, it was decided that we would hang a few large banners we had over the south bound Hollywood 101 Freeway. Very congested road during rush hour. From the moment we hung those banners, and threw up the peace signs…the cars passing below were honking like crazy. Most even threw up peace signs themselves. People of all races, creeds across the board…that’s when it really hit me how much Michael had an effect on the world. That’s why it’s more important than ever, no matter what’s happening right now…we need to stand strong as fans, and we’ve got to show in every way we can, that we STILL care…we want justice for Michael….period.
 
It seems to me this case keeps getting pushed back for a reason? The powers that be may think we will fade away with the sunset but we can not let that happen. I agree we need many more fans for support. Plus Joe needs to put an end to his antics, all it does is make Michael look bad. I agree, this is a very, very serious case and the people need to step up to the plate and stop draging their feet. MURRAY murdererd Michael and should be held responsible. Or, send him to Lima Peru where he will never see the light of day!!!
This he hawing around is just sicking.

sorry for the rant.:(
 
Its sickening to read that the prosecutor seems so lack about setting a date. Are they interested in this case or not? At least the judge reminded them that it was important.
 
the prosecutors don't care if MJ has justice.. You can tell it by the way they're handling this case
 
A sad day! What a blow!
It appears judge Pastor does not want to be held accountable for a decision the previous judge upheld and thus his status quo judgment call. That's why he keeps saying it his not jurisdiction. I'm trying to make sense in all his statements.
 
But I'm hanging to the hope that this can be re-visited and that is when this case goes to preliminary hearing, when supposedly there will be more compelling evidence unfolding.
It seems this judge wants to have ass covered and will only make a move in the light of emerging new evidence.
yeah he said that. although its a contridiction. either he has jurisduction or he doesnt. so him going on about looking at it again after the prelim makes no sense. in other words its an excuse
 
the prelim starts


i find it strange that in his ruling he says he has no jurisdiction yet in the next breath says he may go back to it after the prelims happens. seems to me he doesnt want to do anything until and indictment is handed down

Ya exactly that's why I'm confused I can't understand why he can't overrule it. I'm checking the past articles and Judge Espinoza never ruled Murray could keep his license, the only mention of his license was in the bail where he agreed not to use anesthetics. Also they had filed requests to suspend his license but no decision had ever been made prior to this hearing as far as I can see so why can't he overrule it?
 
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My opinion is that it was stupid to arrange 2 high profile cases on the same day.

And the hearing should have been about the murder of Michael Jackson and NOT about Murray and his fn license which should have already have been revoked. Hell even the Medical Board and Jerry Brown were trying to get it removed. Now surely both the AG and the MB would know if this judge could make this decision or not? The judge claims he couldnt cancel Murray's license based on another judges ruling, but Im sure that 1st judge just gave previsions at the time such as for Murray not to administer sedatives. Does any one have the full 1st hearing?
 
[youtube]t_ADzhDOZAE[/youtube]

Reports of Murray Case shot last at Neverland, For Fans who will never be able to come to the gates of Neverland. Hearing was observed by Wm Wagener from the Media OverFlow room on the same 9th Floor the Trial was held, only Wagener had a front view of Dr. Conrad Murray.


[youtube]y0cLf7AQmEk[/youtube]
June 14th, 2010, Criminal Courts building, Los Angeles at Broadway & Temple St. William Wagener interviews 3 of the 10 Fans, that actually got INTO the Hearing room with the accused Dr. Conrad Murray. Craig, JAime, and Amy saw it happen. 40 or so other Fans had to wait outside the Court room in the 9th floor
hall. William Wagener, TV Host of On Second Thought.TV on net and on cable watched from the Media Overflow room.
 
This is BS.. This man killed Michael.. There is no way he should be parading around with a medical license after his reprehensible treatment of MJ.
 
My opinion is that it was stupid to arrange 2 high profile cases on the same day.

And the hearing should have been about the murder of Michael Jackson and NOT about Murray and his fn license which should have already have been revoked. Hell even the Medical Board and Jerry Brown were trying to get it removed. Now surely both the AG and the MB would know if this judge could make this decision or not? The judge claims he couldnt cancel Murray's license based on another judges ruling, but Im sure that 1st judge just gave previsions at the time such as for Murray not to administer sedatives. Does any one have the full 1st hearing?

That's why I'm lost nothing was said in the first hearing. All that happened was a proper judge was appointment. The only mention of his license is in the rule of the bail which is he cannot administer sedatitves. Besides that no other judge has made a ruling unless I'm mistaken.
 
It saddens me to hear that the prosecution are so lax in their way of dealing with this. I understand that they want time to prepare but they've had ages and nothing has been done. Get the prelim done and get the trial date set. We need justice for Michael.
 
I just figured it out!
From AP:

Judge Pastor was emphatic about his refusal to change an order previously issued by Superior Court Judge Keith Schwartz declining to suspend Murray's medical license when he was arraigned in February, Ms. Deutsch reports in the story.
 
from facebook


The one positive thing of the day that stood out to me, was later in the afternoon after a group of us had gone to eat, it was decided that we would hang a few large banners we had over the south bound Hollywood 101 Freeway. Very congested road during rush hour. From the moment we hung those banners, and threw up the peace signs…the cars passing below were honking like crazy. Most even threw up peace signs themselves. People of all races, creeds across the board…that’s when it really hit me how much Michael had an effect on the world. That’s why it’s more important than ever, no matter what’s happening right now…we need to stand strong as fans, and we’ve got to show in every way we can, that we STILL care…we want justice for Michael….period.

This made me cry. the hairs on the back of my neck are still standing.
 
Its sickening to read that the prosecutor seems so lack about setting a date. Are they interested in this case or not? At least the judge reminded them that it was important.

you know, if there's any hint in their minds that this was first degree murder, I'm sure they would be at least a little bit interested. So that's why we must stand together and keep digging.

UNLESS, they know it could be murder, but $$$ is involved.

Because right now, there is way too many things that smell of murder, not IM.

And I like that post from facebook about the highway. Very beautiful.
 
at the end of the day they want a conviction. hence a reason for the lesser charge.the DA's career is to important to risk a not guilty on a murder charge of either code
 
at the end of the day they want a conviction. hence a reason for the lesser charge.the DA's career is to important to risk a not guilty on a murder charge of either code

but they have "more than enough evidence" for murder 2. and just think of the even more evidence that would come out during trial. just like someone said, with IM you don't have to pull out anything, you don't have to discover or find anything. but with murder, then you HAVE no choice but to pull out ALL the evidence,and possibly even more to look into.

murray's team don't want that. it's too dangerous for them because they fear murray would be convicted.

And if there was no chance of the truth being revealed, then murray wouldn't have his PR team, and they wouldn't be using all their strategies, and $$$ wouldn't be involved in this case so much. Do you guys see this?

they are REALLY trying to cover something up, bigtime, because they KNOW it can be dug up if they don't! well, we need to throw away our shovels, take out some bulldozers and dig faster than they can cover.

but there is still a chance. charges can be added during the trial or changed.
 
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but they have "more than enough evidence" for murder 2. a
as i said his career is more important. it doesnt matter what evidence they have now. its whether they care about risking it in order to make or break his career
 
I have to say it is quite normal for a trial to take this long I believe Princess Diana's inquest took a good year or so before it even began. And they had all the evidence for 10 years prior it was just issues with evidence, judges and even jury they had to deal with first.
 
dianas was an inquest not a trial and didnt take place in the USA. so its pretty irrelvent.
 
I just meant more as process and such before everything began. There seemed to be alot of things they needed to get out of the way before they began and it seems that this trial is going in a similar route. Obviously Diana was an inquest and mandatory due to law. I'm not sure about the difference between it being in London and it being the US but like I said I was more or less just trying to say that the actual process before it begins seemed to take a while as well :) Hopefully though they get on with it during the preliminary trial in August.
 
but they have "more than enough evidence" for murder 2.

now that's a debatable topic.

first of all they don't have intent

secondly i know murder 2 also covers a dangerous conduct with disregard to human life. but for that to happen death resulting from that act must almost be a certainty.

in murray's case by all reports we heard that he's been giving Michael propofol for the last 6 weeks. If he did gave him propofol without the necessary equipment for 6 weeks and he didn't die the first time then you see that death from such action is not a certainty. Murray's defense simply say that Murray didn't expect or thought that MJ would die as he did the same thing with no issues - and then murder 2 would not stick.

Generally speaking when thinking about a criminal charge do not limit your thought process to only evidence, you must add defense strategies and possibility of reasonable doubt as well.

Also technically speaking if DA wants they could even charge Murray with Murder in the first degree, but if he walks what he was charged with doesn't matter. IMO what it matters is that Murray gets convicted.
 
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