Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray-2 disc Blu Ray out Oct

[PCR]

Re: MOONWALKER on Blu-ray 7 July (France)

Ok...what do we, north americans, have to do to have the same products as folks overseas ?

Why are we being treated like second-class fans?

Dear Memefan... sorry, but the answer is simple: you just have to do what we non-us/ non-europe fans do: use the internet and buy online -_-

In my country we hardly ever find one thing of the thousands you have at the USA about Michael. It took me some 4 months just to get a friend to buy the special issue of Ebony magazine and mail it to me, since I was not allowed by Jet, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, none of those, to get it on line.

USA fans have lots and lots and lots of things about Michael. Not to mention European fans. And not to mention Japanese fans!! :wild:

So we, "rest of the world fans" have to get our way Don't be sad!! You can find lots of stuff online, but of course, you have to have the money to pay a lot for shipping and lots of patience to wait of the items to arrive. In my case, is way easier to bring stuff from Europe than from USA.

Moonwalker is available at online stores in the USA too, so don't worry. Try Amazon, CD Universe, etc. Easy to find :better:

Welcome to my world :smilerolleyes: LOL!!! (if you are second hand fans, then what about us?? Kraken Opus has given me great lesson on this matter :ermm

(just kidding, eh? no offences intended. You will see you can get this really easily dear, don't worry)

 

[MJStorm]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Thanks for the photos.

Where is the photo book?

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

There's a photo book as well? Me want very badly!

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

i want this SO bad! I don't think that north americans will be able to play the Japanese blu ray on our players, even though they're both "region 1" I'm not sure, I heard from a friend that it doesn't work between countries like that. Does anybody know for sure? PLEASE release a version for us!

 

[jouse.]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Unfortunately...the image has just been cropped!

DVD:

DVD:

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Unfortunately...the image has just been cropped!

DVD:

DVD:

The image was cropped if you compared it with the VHS/DVD. But in the cinema (1988) the movie was also cropped and that was the idea of the director.

The more image of the VHS and DVD is a special feature that was put to adjust the image to the 4:3 of the 80´Tvs.

The Blu-ray release has the same ratio of the first release in cinemas, 1.85:1.

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

@Kapital77
When you compare 4:3 with 16:9 version of movies, in the WS there is always less information on top and bottom compared to the 4:3 picture, BUT more visible on the left and right side. And in this case that's not like that. I don't think that anyone can remember, if in cinemas the movie had same visible information like on this blu-ray.
I have to agree with Jouse, the 4:3 full screen was just cropped to 16:9 (1.85:1).

The most importand thing is the picture and audio to be best as possible. I can live with the croping.

 

[jouse.]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

The image was cropped if you compared it with the VHS/DVD. But in the cinema (1988) the movie was also cropped and that was the idea of the director.

The more image of the VHS and DVD is a special feature that was put to adjust the image to the 4:3 of the 80´Tvs.

The Blu-ray release has the same ratio of the first release in cinemas, 1.85:1.

I think you are wrong Most film-cameras are filming in the 4:3 full frame, but use anamorphic picture, the widescreen-picture is then stretched to 4:3 so that you use the whole resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_format

So for the VHS/DVD Release the picture was just zoomed, so that it fit in the full 4:3 Frame, because most people then didn't have 16:9 TVs...So you got information from left and right lost. The Opposite...

 

[Droid]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

i thought it was filmed in 1.85:1 and was cropped down to 4:3 for the dvd

(edited to simulate 1.85:1 recording) (i used paint, so thats not really 1.85:1, but approximative)

4:3 dvd

now i see/hear that maybe the bluray was cropped down from the 4:3 video master source, i hope thats not true, but if it is.... finger down

 

[jouse.]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

i thought it was filmed in 1.85:1 and was cropped down to 4:3 for the dvd

(edited to simulate 1.85:1 recording) (i used paint, so thats not really 1.85:1, but approximative)

4:3 dvd

now i see/hear that maybe the bluray was cropped down from the 4:3 video master source, i hope thats not true, but if it is.... finger down

Very right!

I also made a picture to demonstrate it:

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

I think you are wrong Most film-cameras are filming in the 4:3 full frame, but use anamorphic picture, the widescreen-picture is then stretched to 4:3 so that you use the whole resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_format

So for the VHS/DVD Release the picture was just zoomed, so that it fit in the full 4:3 Frame, because most people then didn't have 16:9 TVs...So you got information from left and right lost. The Opposite...

Not not, Moonwalker was filmed with Super 35 cameras. Also they used Soft Matted with the original 1.33:1 (4:3) to convert it to 1.85:1 in cinemas. When they released Moonwalker in VHS they made a Full framed ratio for the 4:3 tvs using Open Matte. They included the things that the director don´t want to show in the cinema. But in cinemas the movie was proyected with a panoramic format of 1.85:1 cutting image as you see in the Blu-ray.

 

[jouse.]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Not not, Moonwalker was filmed with Super 35 cameras. Also they used Soft Matted with the original 1.33:1 (4:3) to convert it to 1.85:1 in cinemas. When they released Moonwalker in VHS they made a Full framed ratio for the 4:3 tvs using Open Matte. They included the things that the director don´t want to show in the cinema. But in cinemas the movie was proyected with a panoramic format of 1.85:1 cutting image as you see in the Blu-ray.

Okay, but why are you so sure about that, that MW was filmed with Super-35 Cameras? Where did you get that information?

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

So for the VHS/DVD Release the picture was just zoomed, so that it fit in the full 4:3 Frame, because most people then didn't have 16:9 TVs...So you got information from left and right lost. The Opposite...

The image was not zoomed because there was no more image on both sides:

The last year i saw the relealase of Moonwalker in cinemas and it was in 1.85:1, look this capture that i made on the cinema:

If you saw the same VHS/DVD capture, you will see that there is a lot of ground in front of the dancers that is innecesary:

If you see this capture of the DVD/VHS you will see a fail, a mistake that the director don´t want to see:

This is the cinema version:

CINEMA/BLU-RAY:

DVD/VHS:

I repeat, there is no more image on both sides. The movie was shot with Super 35 and later was Matted to relealase in movies.

You have to learn about Soft Matte !!!

The director made like in this comparation with the relealase of Air force one in cinema and DVD, look:

CINEMA:

DVD:

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

More people that told the same thing:

ok, to be a bit clearer. The PAL dvd is aspect ratio (1:66:1- 4:3) format (meaning, not anamorphic and not widescreen) It's the open matte version. Meaning the black bars are removed to reveal more image top and bottom.
Leave Me Alone video on the dvd is not 16:9. It's aspect ratio 1:78:1 (as it was filmed that way only)
16:9 means anamorphic (pre stretched for a widescreen tv, keeping good quality)

Moonwalker wasn't filmed hardmatted (except for the leave me alone video which was created optically because of the special effects.) Generally 1.85:1 are shot on the full 1.33:1 film and framed for 1.85:1, leaving extra info on the top and bottom. The previous VHS/ Laserdisc (and dvds from the laserdisc master) have been full screen, those transfers were not Pan/Scan they were full frame versions that opened the matts from the original neg.

 

[jouse.]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

The image was not zoomed because there was no more image on both sides:

The last year i saw the relealase of Moonwalker in cinemas and it was in 1.85:1, look this capture that i made on the cinema:

If you saw the same VHS/DVD capture, you will see that there is a lot of ground in front of the dancers that is innecesary:

If you see this capture of the DVD/VHS you will see a fail, a mistake that the director don´t want to see:

This is the cinema version:

CINEMA/BLU-RAY:

DVD/VHS:

I repeat, there is no more image on both sides. The movie was shot with Super 35 and later was Matted to relealase in movies.

You have to learn about Soft Matte !!!

The director made like in this comparation with the relealase of Air force one in cinema and DVD, look:

CINEMA:

DVD:

Okay, i see...thanks for the pictures!!

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

You are welcome !!!.

 

[jouse.]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

You are welcome !!!.

hehe

But I wonder why the director didn't care then about how the movie is presented on TV...Why no black bars on VHS/DVD, if it was the director's intention? Just for not having people mourning?

 

[Droid]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

so just to be cleared,if you shoot with a 35mm it has 4:3 aspect ratio, no? if thats true, if you shoot with 35mm, when the film is taken to the cinema is cropped down to cinematic ratio 1.85:1,no?

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

so just to be cleared,if you shoot with a 35mm it has 4:3 aspect ratio, no? if thats true, if you shoot with 35mm, when the film is taken to the cinema is cropped down to cinematic ratio 1.85:1,no?

Yes, That´s right.

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

hehe

But I wonder why the director didn't care then about how the movie is presented on TV...Why no black bars on VHS/DVD, if it was the director's intention? Just for not having people mourning?

Because the first VHS version was a special FULL FRAME edition of the movie. Like a special edition of the movie that everyone showed in the cinemas.

The director added the extra image to show more movie than the cinema version. In the movie he couldn´t show more image because he was restricted by the 1.85:1 ratio.

But i really prefer to not see things like this:

In the Leave me alone VHS version they had to put black bands because they did not had that extra image to adjust to the 4:3. In the cinema and the Blu-ray the Leave me alone clip is not cropped and did not has black bands like the VHS & DVD, compare:

VHS (with black bands):

Blu-ray & Cinema (not cropped):

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Movies are always shoot in 4:3 full screen and then the needed aspect ratio is set. But the source 4:3 isn't the same as the result 4:3 for tv.
I expected we would get something like this.
You see that the fullscreen version has more image on top and bottom, less on the sides.
the ws has less on top and bottom, but much more on the sides. And the image is defenetly not zoomed-in for the 4:3 from the ws version.
That's how the differences between fs and ws movies are. The original filmed source 4:3 picture is much bigger, then the 4:3 for tv. So you can get all kind of AR.

MOowalker dvd

Visionary dvd

Now some of the SC sceenes that Kapital77 showed do have more image on the sides, but it's way very little.

As you can see on that sample here, you can get more from the original 4:3 picture
dvd 4:3

the blu-ray is in the cinemas OAR 4:3

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

The only thing that i can say is that the Blu-ray ratio is like the movie at cinemas in 1988. Is the same image and the same ratio. The VHS & Dvd was a special version with added frame on the images.

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

the problem isn't the AR. It's what the picture includes. What is little more visible in the blu-ray then in the dvd, hapens often,
cause when using different sources for mastering the framing differs a little from release to release.

If the picture is stunning like the dvd was, then we don't have anything to complain.
It's not like you'll pay attention, what's visible on the sides.
Just hope that Michaels head isn't cut to much or his feet in importand sceens.

 

[IMWhizzle]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Ok, you all got me lost here..

 

[GOLDSPACESUIT45]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

will there be any Advertisement on moonwalker ON TV?

 

[exim]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

So the answer is; don't get rid of your DVD yet.

 

[Ms.MJ Fan2007]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Yesss oh darn rite because that was my 1st mj mimi movie since I was a baby! but I don't have A blu-ray player yet... I only got a dvd player

 

[Droid]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

just wanned to add this here too, as i wrote this in the 2000wats

As i understand, Moonwalker was shoot on a 35mm film (with 4:3 aspect ratio), but i think it was intended to be shown in 1.85:1 (cinematic ratio)

Here's an example:

This shoot threw a viewfinder shows a 4:3 aspect ratio with an 16:9 rectangle area.
Usually the film director already knows that the movie will be shown in cinemas/tv in 16:9 aspect ratio, so he's focusing more on the 16:9 rectangle area for filming, even tho he shots in 4:3.
After the movie is shoot, the 4:3 film is cropped down to 16:9 aspect ratio.

I think this process was used to film Moonwalker. They shoot it in 4:3, but was intended to be used for 1.85:1 (cinematic)
But when they released the dvd, they used the original 4:3 aspect ratio, instead of cropping the 1.85:1 to 4:3

p.s. this is just my opinion, i could be wrong

+ some new min info
http://www.blu-ray.com/search/?quicksearch=1&section=movies&keyword=moonwalker
and
http://forum.blu-ray.com/united-kingdom/130338-moonwalker-hmv-exclusive-blu-ray.html

 

[IMWhizzle]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

Man, I was dreaming about this Blu-ray.. I am obsessed with the fact that Smooth Criminal will be in crisp detail!!!

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson Moonwalker Blu-Ray (New date June 2nd)-Threads Merged

here are examples of how fullscreen and widescreen usually differ from eachother.
Pic 1 & 7 use the complete open matte picture. the rest has adjusted AR, depending what's of importance.



AR is 2,35:1 anamorph

Now the question is does Moonwalker use the complete open matte picture. I doubt it, as I asume Moonwalker was shoot the same way as LMA (differences can be seen here http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2747266&postcount=149).

Here how the SC vintage was shoot, and then 1,33 ratio was set to fit the old movies sequences.