Michael - The Great Album Debate

dupsy

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Re: Sony get your act together!!!!!!!

Theres a reason for that... Sony is NOT targeting the US for sales, the UK and Europe are it's target, and for good reason,

So what part of europe are they targeting?
which promo? - In Germany there is almost no promo. - Why??? ... Very sad.

No promo in Denmark either.

It could sell soo much better if they made HUGE promotion.

no promo in Hungary, mostly only fans know about the new album..
There is no promo here in ireland as well and people from netherlands,uk & other european countries have been complaining about the lack of promo

posters in my area for the album have already gone. they were up maybe for 2 weeks. at the most

They are even removing posters in some areas in uk
This album has the potential to do well but I feel the lukewarm promo is gonna kill the sales.
 

Travis

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Re: Sony get your act together!!!!!!!

I don't want to defend Sony, but I think they started with very good intention but their original plans were derailed.

Also, we have to admit the album has been up against a lot of hate..from Will I Am to Neyo to the Jacksons to the media and fans....everyone thinks they know best what MJ would have wanted...except for those he put in position to represent him.

I get what you're saying and even agree to an extent but I do feel there is still more than Sony could do. There's a population of people out there who are unaware of the album's existence.
 

samhabib

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Judging by the many members of this board who voiced they're admiration for a new album long before the news was even announced, I'd suppose so.

Judging by the many members of this board who have voiced their disgust at the prospect of Sony releasing a 'new album' (with songs dating back to the 80s!), I'd suppose not.
 

Garden

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Judging by the many members of this board who have voiced their disgust at the prospect of Sony releasing a 'new album' (with songs dating back to the 80s!), I'd suppose not.

Yes and that's one of the reasons why I do not immediately believe the "fake-vocal" talk. The vocals sounding strange plus the Tarryl tweets were a brillant opportunity to feed anti-album campaigns to convince people for boycotting it. I noticed months before there was talk of any releasing date or tracklist, I noticed on several boards that there were indeed already very "militant"-modus fans who where absolutely against a posthumous album.
Now, if they had not been active then I maybe had unconsciously pushed my perception abilities (ears and brains) now to hear fake vocals. But I don't push myself because I know many of "fake-believers" simply are against any posthumous release and that's the real battle, not the discussion about the vocals.
At this point, reading many threads on different boards, reading TR, knowing of the Estate statement, ... even hearing with my ears that don't know what they hear... well, I cannot say it is this or that. I think I hear Michael but I don't know if my ears don't fool me. I simply didn't hear or read enough valid evidence on each side yet.
Will there ever be? I know you think you have evidence. Well you maybe are the lucky ones. I don't know what to believe. I thought most probably the vocals are just too processed, that's why I choose for that option. And I was mad at all those almost aggressive "activists". But actually I should have said "I don't know" because... I have no proof at all. The Estate don't show their proof... so it is not here to convince us. Nothing.

But it's Christmas, so peace to you all. I'll forget my problem with some "militant" fans in de past.
And a last thing : don't think I am pro Sony or whatever. I am against kapitalism, so I don't like big business. But it is a reality we have to live with if we want to hear music ...

Peace
 
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AnnieRUOkay89

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Judging by the many members of this board who have voiced their disgust at the prospect of Sony releasing a 'new album' (with songs dating back to the 80s!), I'd suppose not.

No, many of us didn't want a new album with songs we've already heard. Many of us voiced wanting an album with new material. All you have to do is look back at the album thread that's now archived to see how many members wanted a new album.
 

samhabib

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many members wanted a new album.

'Many members' does not equal all 'fans'. Which is the term I took issue with. Some fans wanted it. Some fans didn't. So for any fan to claim that 'fans need a new album', it is a complete inaccuracy.
 

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to be honest I only bought the songs i believe are michael's, and im so not happy, i didn't wait 10 years for this mess, if michael just was here today none of that would've happened! rip michael
 

donalb

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It was mentioned in a now closed thread that the fans are responsible for the lack of promotion by giving the general public the impression that there are some fake songs on the album. As Michael Jackson's own mother and children have also publicly expressed their opinions, I have an issue with putting the blame on the fans. This whole mess should have been resolved long before the authencity issues ever became known to the public. Both Sony and the Estate knew what they were getting into.
 

Garden

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I don't blame it on the fans, neither on the family, I blame it on the opinion-formers (wherever).
 

deano

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It was mentioned in a now closed thread that the fans are responsible for the lack of promotion by giving the general public the impression that there are some fake songs on the album. As Michael Jackson's own mother and children have also publicly expressed their opinions, I have an issue with putting the blame on the fans. This whole mess should have been resolved long before the authencity issues ever became known to the public. Both Sony and the Estate knew what they were getting into.


I keep hearing this "Michael Jackson's own mother and children have also publicly expressed their opinions", but can anybody provide me with actual proof of this?

And by "proof", I mean 'actual footage' of them saying they are against the Cascio tracks/ album.

It has to be actual footage, as we want to play by the same rules as the 'doubters'. They want actual footage of MJ singing the Cascio tracks - or it's 'NO DEAL' - so I would demand the same before I believe Katherine or the children said any such thing.

Does that sound fair?
 

MJDisneyDork

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It's Sony's fault in the end. I don't like pointing fingers and I'm not saying fans didn't overreact, but if there was ever ANY questions on authenticity, no matter what proof they could muster, they should have simply delayed the release to promise different songs to show they cared, not just about profit, but for the fans. Customers don't want 'business' they want understanding. Sony didn't offer this so fans were angry, even after some were convinced it was Michael. There should never be any questioning and Sony didn't realize that.
 

Arklove

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

As someone else had posted in one of the other threads, this album was doomed as soon as they streamed Breaking News online..Then, the subsequent insistence that it, along with the other 2 questionable tracks, be included on the album. This statement that the Estate compiled alluded that the Estate cares about the fans, and we're the ultimate judges. For those of us that believe the songs are not Michael Jackson singing, we believe that a deliberate attempt at sabotaging Michael Jackson's legacy has been done, as some posters have already stated. We care about his legacy, and if the Estate has ignored the outrage of a massive amount of fans, what makes you think THEY care about his legacy?
 

samhabib

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

We care about his legacy, and if the Estate has ignored the outrage of a massive amount of fans, what makes you think THEY care about his legacy?

This...
 

Graf

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

As someone else had posted in one of the other threads, this album was doomed as soon as they streamed Breaking News online..Then, the subsequent insistence that it, along with the other 2 questionable tracks, be included on the album. This statement that the Estate compiled alluded that the Estate cares about the fans, and we're the ultimate judges. For those of us that believe the songs are not Michael Jackson singing, we believe that a deliberate attempt at sabotaging Michael Jackson's legacy has been done, as some posters have already stated. We care about his legacy, and if the Estate has ignored the outrage of a massive amount of fans, what makes you think THEY care about his legacy?

I agree..

No blame to fans, no blame to anyone else except the people in charge of putting this album together.
 
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Tony R

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I wish it was that easy. The issue is, if you DON'T believe the tracks are MJ, you believe that there is a deliberate attempt to sabotage his legacy. And for some of us, that's not an easy thing to let go. For some of us, we take that very personally. It's not a matter of pressing 'skip'. It's a matter of making sure his legacy gets preserved the way it should do.

He's bigger than Elvis. Greater than The Beatles. His name deserves to be remembered as such. Not dragged through the mud.

Sam, if I can reply to an earlier comment in a now closed thread.

The above bolded part isn't true for all of us. I don't believe at any point this is a deliberate attempt at sabotage.

I believe that the Cascios really wanted the kudos of being on the album and so did the best they could with what they had. I don't see any point in fully making up tracks that MJ was never involved with when they had STTR, DYKWYCA & Blue Gangsta.

I think there must be some MJ on the 3 tracks (personally, I think he sings the first verse of Monster and some of KYHU) and they've tried (and failed) to make full paintings out of some faded sketches.

Sony didn't realise and have run with it.
 

samhabib

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sam, if I can reply to an earlier comment in a now closed thread.

The above bolded part isn't true for all of us. I don't believe at any point this is a deliberate attempt at sabotage.

I believe that the Cascios really wanted the kudos of being on the album and so did the best they could with what they had. I don't see any point in fully making up tracks that MJ was never involved with when they had STTR, DYKWYCA & Blue Gangsta.

I think there must be some MJ on the 3 tracks (personally, I think he sings the first verse of Monster and some of KYHU) and they've tried (and failed) to make full paintings out of some faded sketches.

Sony didn't realise and have run with it.

Fair enough. But, even then, if you believe that you believe that someone was hired to impersonate his voice. Which is completely repugnant. It's literally akin to digging him up from his grave, tying strings to his limbs and getting him to dance one last time. That's how I look at it. And it repulses me.

He was a man. A real human being. Not a mythical figure, however wonderous he was. He deserves more than this. That's all.
 

Arklove

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He was a man. A real human being. Not a mythical figure, however wonderous he was. He deserves more than this. That's all.

This....No matter what is happening here.....THIS should be the ultimate thought to ponder..
 

loka

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sam, if I can reply to an earlier comment in a now closed thread.

The above bolded part isn't true for all of us. I don't believe at any point this is a deliberate attempt at sabotage.

I believe that the Cascios really wanted the kudos of being on the album and so did the best they could with what they had. I don't see any point in fully making up tracks that MJ was never involved with when they had STTR, DYKWYCA & Blue Gangsta.

I think there must be some MJ on the 3 tracks (personally, I think he sings the first verse of Monster and some of KYHU) and they've tried (and failed) to make full paintings out of some faded sketches.

Sony didn't realise and have run with it.

I believe the same too

if it's that...i think that the album didn't desreve to be sabotaged by the fans.

They wanted to give us the last works of MJ.

The problem is the lack of communication on this.

this album was not a bad idea...there has been Bad Communication but i don't think that The Cascios or Sony wanted to fool us.

They wanted to share the last works of MJ (no matter what)

I love this album for what it is : an album started by MJ and finished by others musicans/singers.
 

Tony R

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Fair enough. But, even then, if you believe that you believe that someone was hired to impersonate his voice. Which is completely repugnant. It's literally akin to digging him up from his grave, tying strings to his limbs and getting him to dance one last time. That's how I look at it. And it repulses me.

He was a man. A real human being. Not a mythical figure, however wonderous he was. He deserves more than this. That's all.

Well, not quite literally the same. But I guess you exaggerate to make the point.
 

kopwatcher

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sony didn't realise and have run with it.
I think they realised. We're talking about a multinational music company here, they're not stupid. They had the opportunity to change things when BN streamed. They didn't. I blame them for this.
 

Arklove

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I think they realised. We're talking about a multinational music company here, they're not stupid. They had the opportunity to change things when BN streamed. They didn't. I blame them for this.

Along with the fact that they had the opportunity to show this 'proof' on Oprah, a perfect public platform...They didn't...
 

samhabib

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well, not quite literally the same. But I guess you exaggerate to make the point.

Of course, sorry. But that's how bad it is to me.

No one would do that to Elvis' legacy. And Michael was Elvis' better in EVERY SINGLE way possible.

No one would do that to The Beatles legacy. And Michael OWNED The Beatles.

There's been a distinct lack of respect. That's all. And he deserves more. He's the greatest, most consummate artist that has ever lived. He deserves for his name to be up in lights. Not dragged through the dirt.

I get the feeling that there are some fans who think that I get some sort of enjoyment out of this. I don't. I love 'Best of Joy'. But it's tainted FOREVER MORE for me by being sandwiched between Monster and Breaking News. That didn't have to happen. But it did. And the album goes down onto his discography forever and ever along with Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, etc.

He deserved more.
 

Tony R

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Of course, sorry. But that's how bad it is to me.

No one would do that to Elvis' legacy. And Michael was Elvis' better in EVERY SINGLE way possible.

No one would do that to The Beatles legacy. And Michael OWNED The Beatles.

There's been a distinct lack of respect. That's all. And he deserves more. He's the greatest, most consummate artist that has ever lived. He deserves for his name to be up in lights. Not dragged through the dirt.

I get the feeling that there are some fans who think that I get some sort of enjoyment out of this. I don't. I love 'Best of Joy'. But it's tainted FOREVER MORE for me by being sandwiched between Monster and Breaking News. That didn't have to happen. But it did. And the album goes down onto his discography forever and ever along with Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, etc.

He deserved more.

Agreed. I never expected the good tracks on Michael to be as good as they are, and it's such a shame that this 30% overshadows the great 70%.

But I don't think that people have purposely tried to smear his name again. I think if anything all this has happened because people (Cascios) were desperate to be associated with him.

Also, I guess that to a lesser extent Elvis & Beatles forums have had similar instances where, for example, the JXL remix of 'A Little Less Conversation' will have annoyed purists and releasing The Beatles' Free As A Bird when it's obviously way inferior to all their other work will have pissed Beatles fans off.

Before you say it, I know it's not fully comparable with other people singing his songs but what I'm trying to make a point of is that you can never posthumously treat material the way that will please all fans.

I'm arguing with myself really because I'd have loved for Michael to have had the 3 unreleased but great tracks (Children, Gangsta & Slave) on and not the 3 we're all arguing about, but I don't think it's the conspiracy it's being made out to be. It's bad judgement & desperation gone badly wrong.
 

kreen

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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Of course, sorry. But that's how bad it is to me.

No one would do that to Elvis' legacy. And Michael was Elvis' better in EVERY SINGLE way possible.

No one would do that to The Beatles legacy. And Michael OWNED The Beatles.

There's been a distinct lack of respect. That's all. And he deserves more. He's the greatest, most consummate artist that has ever lived. He deserves for his name to be up in lights. Not dragged through the dirt.

I get the feeling that there are some fans who think that I get some sort of enjoyment out of this. I don't. I love 'Best of Joy'. But it's tainted FOREVER MORE for me by being sandwiched between Monster and Breaking News. That didn't have to happen. But it did. And the album goes down onto his discography forever and ever along with Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, etc.

He deserved more.

If the Cascio songs turn out to be fake, you're absolutely right.
 
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