Michael's work with Quincy Jones

[HIStory]

But this video you posted has exactly the reason we get so incensed when Q talks about Michael sometimes-(2:21-2:38) What am I going to learn from Michael, man? We tell him what songs to sing. etc. That's making Michael out to be his puppet, right there.

Exactly, this is exactly the problem. So how is this some sort of myth created after Michael's death that Quincy is talking down on Michael at every opportunity? And it's just very unfair to someone who actually wrote Billie Jean, Beat It, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', DSTYGE, Working Day and Night, Get on the Floor and about 90% of Bad. Michael and Quincy had nine #1 hits together. Seven of those were written by Michael. Seven out of nine! So how is this fair to Michael to portray him as if he was just Quincy's puppet who did nothing but sang the songs Q gave him?
And you have Quincy here talking about him as if he just sang the songs he had given him. No wonder we have so much ignorance about Michael's creativity in the general public when Quincy himself feeds into that myth out of some sort of vanity or I don't know why.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

I know this has nothing to do with the original question about Q saying nasty personal stuff about Michael after he died, but I, for one, was heartsick when Michael and Q broke up-because I did and still believe they were a match made in heaven. Especially after I heard "Dangerous" the first time. I blamed that new sound on the breakup-

But in the long run it didn't matter-both Michael and Quincy went the NJS/hip hop route and I truly believe because they both liked ALL
kinds of music-from the big band/old American songbook/musicals to rap.

But this video you posted has exactly the reason we get so incensed when Q talks about Michael sometimes-(2:21-2:38) What am I going to learn from Michael, man? We tell him what songs to sing. etc. That's making Michael out to be his puppet, right there.

how was they making MJ be a puppet when Michael wrote half the songs that were featured on Thriller.....did Quincy treat Michael like a puppet for Off The Wall, Bad, or the recording of We Are The World?.....

did he tell MIchael what videos to make or what outfits to wear?

it's a producers job to guide someone along....that goes for all artists, especially when u are starting out your own solo career

Quincy took direction when he was younger until he fully developed his craft

he also said in this clip that they made 800 songs and narrowed it down to nine, so that means tehre were a ton of songs written by other people in contribution to crafting the album


as u just mentioned, it time getting adjusted to Michael's new sound with Dangerous, new jack swing had been prominent ever since 1987 with Keith Sweat's debut album I Want Her...New Jack ran its course by the mid 90s after Teddy Riley formed Blackstreet......and Michael only worked with Riley once for a full album, and Riley said in interviews he guided Michael along in songs he was producing.......

 

[HIStory]

how was they making MJ be a puppet when Michael wrote half the songs that were featured on Thriller.....

You have to ask that from Quincy. Did you even watch the video you posted?

it's a producers job to guide someone along....that goes for all artists, especially when u are starting out your own solo career

Quincy did not say he just guided Michael as a producer. Again, watch the video you posted. What he said was pretty dismissive of Michael's talent. And that is exactly our problem with him. And I also find it pretty arrogant to say he could not learn anything from Michael. Well, for one, Michael wrote songs that Quincy could have never written. So if not for anything else he should have given him respect for that. Michael had to write those songs first for Quincy to produce them.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

You have to ask that from Quincy. Did you even watch the video you posted?



Quincy did not say he just guided Michael as a producer. Again, watch the video you posted. What he said was pretty dismissive of Michael's talent. And that is exactly our problem with him. And I also find it pretty arrogant to say he could not learn anything from Michael. Well, for one, Michael wrote songs that Quincy could have never written. So if not for anything else he should have given him respect for that. Michael had to write those songs first for Quincy to produce them.

Quincy Jones answered the way he did because he know this myth of the past couple of years has been put out there that he never like Billie Jean, a myth that came out the blue



From the moment thet started working together he always said that Michael was the most prepared artist that he ever worked with


And he also knows people are trying to rewrite history attempting to make him out to be a footnote when he was one of the most important figures in his career and the best producer Michael ever worked with and Michael knows this too even after working with teddy riley,bill bottrell, dallas austin, rodney jerkins, dr freeze, babyface Will I Am and the like


And Quincy never ever said he was a songwriter when he is a producer by craft

 

[HIStory]

Quincy Jones answered the way he did because he know this myth of the past couple of years has been put out there that he never like Billie Jean, a myth that came out the blue


And he also knows people are trying to rewrite history attempting to make him out to be a footnote

What is it that you do not understand? For God's sake at least watch the video that you posted! It has nothing to do with Billie Jean and no one in that video wanted to make Quincy a footnote. Instead he is trying to make Michael a footnote.

And Quincy never ever said he was a songwriter when he is a producer by craft

Missing the point again.

 

[HIStory]

These photos are from a Hungarian singer (the woman) who visited Quincy in his house for some reason. So this is Quincy's house:

 

[InvincibleMJ]

These photos are from a Hungarian singer (the woman) who visited Quincy in his house for some reason. So this is Quincy's house:

Clearly QJ thinks he would have earned the same distinction if he had never worked for Michael :rofl:

 

[HIStory]

^ There were some comments in this thread about MJ supposedly not being that important in Quincy's career. I guess the decoration in Q's house tells otherwise.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

^ There were some comments in this thread about MJ supposedly not being that important in Quincy's career. I guess the decoration in Q's house tells otherwise.

I know :rofl:

 

[TinnyandOdd]

That thing is as big as Q's ego ... :cheeky:

 

[barbee0715]

I love these plaques the record companies give out-they are always gorgeous. I know that Quincy is a creative genius and a multi-talent in his own right. And I know he worked with the greatest of the great before and after Michael.

But he knows deep in his heart, that he hit his most inspirational creative peak with Michael and he also knows that Michael made him more famous and richer than he could ever imagine.

 

[SoCav]

But he knows deep in his heart, that he hit his most inspirational creative peak with Michael and he also knows that Michael made him more famous and richer than he could ever imagine.

I don't agree with the bolded, but do agree with the second part.

 

[castor]

Quincy always famously said a great album is never the product of one person, but a whole team...that's why he was successful over 6 decades

Success can mean many things.

The fact is that none of the things Q did before or after the MJ albums were even remotely as influential or popular as Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad.
Nothing on your list was in any way earth shattering. If you looked at the career of Leornard Bernstein it's as impressive as Quincy's. That doesn't mean Bernstein was in any way relevant in five continents like MJ.

Every item on that list looks like a karaoke performance in a pub compared to MJ's impact.

Dude? Pleeasee.... OK album, noone cares about it anymore.

For one thing nobody cared about Q's music outside of the developed world or even outside the US.
People in Slovenia or India wouldn't even know who Q is without Michael Jackson.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

It's sad because back in the day he had no problem talking about the glorious achievements in music that he and Michael inspired each other to do.

I think maybe no matter how much he praised Michael then, people always assumed Quincy was the power behind the throne. Or the Pygmalion to Michael's Galatea.

It's sad to me because Quincy really is an incredible talent and visionary, and I hate to see him angry and bitter.

That's it in a nutshell. I have conflicting feelings about Q. On one hand, I greatly respect his talent and legacy. On the other hand I see him as a bitter bitch for his whining about Mike. When did the tide turn from being proud of working with Mike to almost hating it? *scratches head*

 

[Soundmind]

Success can mean many things.

The fact is that none of the things Q did before or after the MJ albums were even remotely as influential or popular as Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad.
Nothing on your list was in any way earth shattering. If you looked at the career of Leornard Bernstein it's as impressive as Quincy's. That doesn't mean Bernstein was in any way relevant in five continents like MJ.

Every item on that list looks like a karaoke performance in a pub compared to MJ's impact.

Dude? Pleeasee.... OK album, noone cares about it anymore.

For one thing nobody cared about Q's music outside of the developed world or even outside the US.
People in Slovenia or India wouldn't even know who Q is without Michael Jackson.

This is so true. Even those who know him outside the US because of MJ are not really large numbers.

 

[HIStory]

That Hungarian singer I posted the pics from above, when she introduced these pics on her FB she introduced Q as MJ's producer. Not the producer of Tevin Campbell. Not the producer of Frank Sinatra. Not the producer of Ray Charles. Not the producer of The Brothers Johnson. Not the producer of Tamia. Michael Jackson - that's what always going to be his biggest reference that everyone around the globe knows about. So to pretend that MJ was really not that important for his career is funny. No, MJ did not make him a musician. No MJ did not make him a great producer. But that's true the other way around as well: MJ was an artist before Quincy as well. A famous one at that. They BOTH took each other to another level in terms of success and fame and artistically. BOTH. Not only Q did that to MJ's career but MJ did that to Quincy's as well. To produce Billie Jean, WBSS, DSTYGE, Beat It - all those hits - etc. etc. MJ had to write them first.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Was Quincy Jones the reason MJ succeeded?

No, you know it's not. This is how I feel about it. I loved Quincy's work before, and even some of it after, but I think he reached his zenith with Michael.

I'm referring to the part of saying Michael was his muse

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

I'm referring to the part of saying Michael was his muse

Again, remember this is my own opinion and how I feel about their personal/professional relationship.
I'm sure I don't know every artist Quincy worked with before 1977, but of the ones I know, Michael seems to be the one where Quincy became his most creative and inspired.
A muse is simply someone or something that inspires you, that makes you dream a little longer, work a little harder and drives you to achieve things you didn't think possible.

 

[wonderouzdj2]

Was Michael pulled away from his black audience?

... How many times have you been banned already?

Dude...im not bothering anyone. Why must u be so damn trashy. I'm here just like you are & I'm obviously not banned. Continue to troll someone else man. Let me be!

 

[HIStoric]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

How can u assume the fans who bought Thriller didnt know about the small details when they were the people, including myself who followed the entire run of the album

And how can you assume they do? Honestly I see the general public so often comment that MJ rarely wrote his hits or that Quincy Jones was the sole mastermind of the Thriller album that I often question just how much people really know about Michael as a musician and his involvement with the Thriller album (and yes, Quincy was an essential part of Thriller obviously, but so was Michael's talents as a musician and people often underplay this).

I recall in 2014, Michael's demo of 'Beat It' (from the 2009 TII soundtrack) went viral online and so many people were only then discovering how involved Michael was in the production of his songs. No doubt many of these people had bought Thriller on tape, CD or vinyl at some point (and I know many did because said so in their comments). Sure, I as a fan was already very much aware of this demo and Michael's creative process but evidently a great deal of fans, casual fans and non-fans alike weren't aware and that is why a documentary like this is important.

When it comes to the music videos, as a hardcore fan, I don't actually know a great deal about the making of the Billie Jean and Beat It short films. I know some facts, sure, but whenever have we really gone in depth on the making of these two music videos, which are among the most celebrated and iconic music videos of any artist? I'm sure there are many great stories, details, facts and tid-bits that we can still learn about the production of these two iconic short films and I welcome them all. What about behind the scenes photos and footage too? And as for Thriller's music video, why should there be just one documentary? There's no reason it can't be revisited. It doesn't even cover the impact or influence the short film had, which was not just on music or on the entire art form of music videos, but on pop culture as well.

It'd honestly be a shame to just ignore a documentary on the most successful part of Michael's career just because it is perhaps the most known by fans. Current fans mind you, part of the responsibility the Estate has is continuing Michael's legacy and attracting new fans. It's not all about us current fans, it's also about introducing new fans to the genius that was Michael Jackson. No doubt a Thriller documentary would tread some ground we current fans are already familiar with, but in doing so, it would introduce thousands and thousands to these facts and figures they weren't aware of before, (re)introducing them to the juggernaut that Michael Jackson and Thriller were.

Honestly if it really bothers you that much, you can just, oh I dunno, not watch it?

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

And how can you assume they do? Honestly I see the general public so often comment that MJ rarely wrote his hits or that Quincy Jones was the sole mastermind of the Thriller album that I often question just how much people really know about Michael as a musician and his involvement with the Thriller album (and yes, Quincy was an essential part of Thriller obviously, but so was Michael's talents as a musician and people often underplay this).

I recall in 2014, Michael's demo of 'Beat It' (from the 2009 TII soundtrack) went viral online and so many people were only then discovering how involved Michael was in the production of his songs. No doubt many of these people had bought Thriller on tape, CD or vinyl at some point (and I know many did because said so in their comments). Sure, I as a fan was already very much aware of this demo and Michael's creative process but evidently a great deal of fans, casual fans and non-fans alike weren't aware and that is why a documentary like this is important.

I can assure you, there are still stories and countless details about the Thriller album that you do not know because they've not been publicly spoken about before. And honestly, if this really bothers you that much, you can simply not watch at all.



To be quite frank, as a hardcore fan, I don't actually know a great deal about the making of the Billie Jean and Beat It short films. I know some facts, sure, but whenever have we really gone in depth on the making of these two music videos, which are among the most celebrated and iconic music videos of any artist? I'm sure there are many great stories, details, facts and tid-bits that we can still learn about the production of these two iconic short films and I welcome them all. What about behind the scenes photos and footage? And as for Thriller, why should there be just one documentary? Yes, it's the most covered part of the Thriller project, that it's only one part of the giant phenomena that was Thriller. The Making of documentary did not cover the impact or influence it had, not just on music but pop culture as a whole.

It'd honestly be a shame to just ignore a documentary on the most successful part of Michael's career just because it is perhaps the most known by fans. Current fans mind you, part of the responsibility the Estate has is continuing Michael's legacy and attracting new fans. It's not all about us current fans, it's also about introducing new fans to the genius that was Michael Jackson. No doubt a Thriller documentary would tread some ground we current fans are already familiar with, but in doing so, it would introduce thousands and thousands to these facts and figures they weren't aware of before, introducing them to the juggernaut that Michael Jackson and Thriller were.

That's the thing though, in 1984, when it was actually going down, when Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones stood on that podium together on Grammy night receiving all those awards, there were zero conclusions that Quincy deserved all the credit for the music production of Thriller, they were seen as equal contributors. That was the public consensus of that moment, of that day during that time


There was no talk about Quincy trying to sabotage Billie Jean until 2010, which has led the public of today to be misled

All one ever had to do is look at the song credits on those albums to find out who wrote what, who came up with the rhythm arrangements, and who produced what

Since 1982, the credit shows for Thriller, Quincy was the lead producer, and Michael was co-producer, nothing has changed accept the narrative of the current day

 

[HIStoric]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

That's the thing though, in 1984, when it was actually going down, when Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones stood on that podium together on Grammy night receiving all those awards, there were zero conclusions that Quincy deserved all the credit for the music production of Thriller, they were seen as equal contributors. That was the public consensus of that moment, of that day during that time


There was no talk about Quincy trying to sabotage Billie Jean until 2010, which has led the public of today to be misled

All one ever had to do is look at the song credits on those albums to find out who wrote what, who came up with the rhythm arrangements, and who produced what

Since 1982, the credit shows for Thriller, Quincy was the lead producer, and Michael was co-producer, nothing has changed accept the narrative of the current day

Exactly! That was then, now is now! Unfortunately public opinion has changed overtime about Michael and his abilities as a musician and artist. While people in the 1980s might not have concluded that Quincy deserves all the credit for the music production, many do now unfortunately and I see it time and time again on the internet. If anything, that is just another reason why an in-depth documentary on Thriller's production would be greatly welcomed.

A documentary now-a-days that features on primetime television can help set the record straight, or at least, play a role in the much-needed process of improving today's public's perception of Michael Jackson as a musician.

As for checking the credits, yes people can do that, but as MJ fans, we all know how great the general public is at fact-checking Michael Jackson. Many people simply don't because they think they already know. On top of this, the credits don't explicitly state Michael's contribution. I've seen people claim he's 'co-producer' simply because it's his album. I honestly can't help but shake my head at BS like those statements.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

Exactly! That was then, now is now! Unfortunately public opinion has changed overtime about Michael and his abilities as a musician and artist. While people in the 1980s might not have concluded that Quincy deserves all the credit for the music production, many do now unfortunately and I see it time and time again on the internet. If anything, that is just another reason why an in-depth documentary on Thriller's production would be greatly welcomed.

A documentary now-a-days that features on primetime television can help set the record straight, or at least, play a role in the much-needed process of improving today's public's perception of Michael Jackson as a musician.

As for checking the credits, yes people can do that, but as MJ fans, we all know how great the general public is at fact-checking Michael Jackson. Many people simply don't because they think they already know. On top of this, the credits don't explicitly state Michael's contribution. I've seen people claim he's 'co-producer' simply because it's his album. I honestly can't help but shake my head at BS like those statements.

The only reason public opinion has changed is because a handful of people with a platform have deliberately put the notion out there that Quincy Jones was taking all the credit or given all the credit

The original Thriller album and Off The Wall accurately depicts the credit if what each person did in contributing to the album which is why when both men stood at the podium,on grammy night in 1984, fans, the public, and music critics saw them as equal contributors to Thriller

Once the false narrative is eliminated once abd for all, then things can be depicted as it should

 

[DuranDuran]

Now that we have reached the end of the road with nothing else coming down the pike, we wanna see everything now

What in the world happened

What's your point? There's been over a thousand books about The Beatles, together & solo (and ones written about people around them) over the years and still being written today. There can't be much that hasn't been said already, yet people continue to put out books about them. Apparently there's an audience for Beatles books or they wouldn't sell.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

What's your point? There's been over a thousand books about The Beatles, together & solo (and ones written about people around them) over the years and still being written today. There can't be much that hasn't been said already, yet people continue to put out books about them. Apparently there's an audience for Beatles books or they wouldn't sell.

But their narrative hasnt changed and there is no innuendo about whats true are not regarding their person

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

25 million people in the united states alone bought that album and it was probably more than that

It's actually 30 million and probably more.

What in the world happened

MJ died.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

It's actually 30 million and probably more.






MJ died.

Im referring to the sales during its original run

Wait, it takes someone's death to want to embrace their full body of work

So what if he was still present.....then what

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

Wait, it takes someone's death to want to embrace their full body of work

Sadly, yes. Didn't you notice that when he died, all of the sudden everyone loved him? Even those who never did before

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

Onir is right. Michael died-that's what happened.

When he was alive, most of the people who had loved him in the beginning and through the Quincy years had probably not heard too much about him except allegation and innuendo-and had just tucked those old glory days back in their brains. Personally, I would have LOVED them to make some new docs on OTW or BAD-there were a lot of great music docs made in the 90s by the Time/Life people, American Masters, and others and whenever they hit on Motown or the disco period I was all ears. But I'm the minority.
The hard core fans knew he was still creating music and were waiting with baited breath to see what his new music would sound like-Michael was still young, and had plenty of music left in him, so I think that's why all you heard at the time was discussions about his NEW music.

Once he died, that anxiousness and eagerness for new music died too-so we all want to go back and get more detail on what happened before.

(And honestly, there are people who don't know every minute detail-I introduced my little nephews to Moonwalker back in the day-now they have a couple of toddlers of their own-so new generations are out there to discover Michael again).

There were a large segment of the fan community who did not consider those two albuns, not even We Are The World until we now have reached the finish line

Where was all this anxiousness to acquaint themselves with his work during the beginning of his solo career when he was still present

They could have been eager to both wait for something new as well as get to know more about his earlier work

 

[DuranDuran]

Beatles

But their narrative hasnt changed and there is no innuendo about whats true are not regarding their person

There was about John Lennon, like the Albert Goldman book. Goldman also wrote a controversial book about Elvis Presley