you&meforever
Proud Member
I think it looks very bad that murrey is crying now but not once when they talk about our angel Michael. wonder if the jury thinks like me...
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Ramona122003
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The DA already showed that Murray took the job for the money and he was more concern about being paid than getting the correct medical equipment. So, there's really no need to show that he was in financial hot water.
Even if it wasn't about the money, would that excuse what he done? Even if he was not being paid, would it had made what he done even better? In this case of negligence money is part of the story, but it isn't the overreaching narrative. As I said, intent and motive would be more important in a murder 2 case.
bouee
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Mr Causey
met CM in las Vegas
Met CM 11 years ago in Las vegas, had a heart attack. University medical center couldn't stop the heart attack, so they called CM
CM talked to him for a few minutes about the procedure, made sure he understood, asked him to sign papers. Then took thim to the procedure room to do an angiograph.
Had high blood pressure, but didn't expect to have a heart attack, was 57.
Procedure : was not sedated, CM let him do that, did the procedure , told him he had found the problem.
CM always explains everything
Received 1 stent.
Had follow up visits, first one was 3 weeks after the first procedure
keeps in constant contact with Dr Murray, because of his medical condition, and became friends with CM.
Had other doctors in the past, but did not become friends with them. Became friends because of the way CM cares for his patients, loves his patients , the way he made him feel.
CM would not abandon a patient, does not rush patients, once was in his office for 4 and a half hours;
CM would take the time it takes to explain, in laymans words, calls the family to make sure they understand.
CM is not greedy, «*didn't charge my deductable*» (what's a deductable ?) , accepted his employees without knowing if they were insured.
Were you aware that CM was taking a job with MJ? CM told him that he would be back, had made arrangements, gave him his phone numbers.
Walgren
Came to LA on Monday night, stayed in a hotel last night.
Has given 2 media interviews
In 2009, can't remeber if he saw CM professionnally. Is sure about 2008, not sure about 2009
CM informed him he woas leaving his practice , coud have been in april, is not sure
CM is his best friend
Was treated for heart condition, had nothing to do with sleep disorder, nothing to do with drug dependency.
Was in a hospital, explained what was going to happen, and the hospital got him to sign papers.
Could see the monitors in the room
there were 3 additional people, so 4 people in the room , doing the rocedure, with monitors.
Had aditional stents , all the same way, in a hopsital, with personnel.
Chernoff :
was not paid for the media interview, did them to help his friend.
Helped because of his love, his compassion, and doesn't think he did what he's accused of.
Walgren :
Assuming CM had acted with gross negligence , he would still be here to support his friend
***
Andrew Guest
met Murray in 2002, was 39, through his primary physician. His physician called CM on his cell phone, while he was out of country. Had pain chest, arm chest, headache
CM ran some tests, did not do a treadmill test, CM wouldn't do it because it was dangerous, could have died, so did it in the hospital.
Had stents put.
Allergic to iodine, CM gave him medication for the allergery; Was awake during the procedure , a little sedated.
CM stopped during the procedure to check on him.
Solved the chest pain.
Had other stents, in another hospital, because the first hospital didn't have the right equipment, Cm wouldn't do it there
Dr Murray is the best doctor, explains everything , makes sure you're OK, called him at home during the week end.
Walgren
knows Mr Causey, did another intervies on CNN, with Denis Hix and Ruby Mosley
treatment was for a heart condition, had a team to help him
there was the necessary medical equipment
CM never gave him propofol in his bedroom
Every patient deserves that level of care ( witness wants to add something, Walgren doesn't let him)
Chernoff :
CM provides great care in his office too (that's what Mr Guest wanted to add)
CNN dind't pay him, believes CM needs support, apreciate his kindness, he's alive thanks to CM
Walgren
nothing would change his mind about CM
****
Lunette Sampson
Had 3 heart attacks in Las Vegas, november 2008, feb 2009, april 2009 , has congestive heart failure.
Had been treated by CM before the heart attack, had a heart attack in 95. CM treated her with medication, performed many procedures.
In 2008, CM was out of town when she had a heart attack. After the heart attack , another doctor told her she was OK, but CM didn't think so, wanted to do another test, she wouldn't do it, had a second heart attack.
CM is a very caring and thorough doctor, he looked at a problem she had in the legs, he saw that was where the problem came from.
CM doesn't rush through things. «*When we come we know wer'e gonna be there a while*».
CM is not greedy, he's taking care of people pro bono, pays for medication when patients can't pay
Walgren
lawyer Miranda Subik contacted her.
Miranda works at Media Masters, media masters is in her e mail adress.
CM never mentionned MJ, said he was taking a one year sabbatical, and was going to London, referred her to another doctor.
Was distressed because doesn't trust other doctors because of what happened to her
CM treated her for heart condtion
CM received a discipline letter from Sunrise Hosipital : December 24th had been called at 11am, called again at 11 05, CM called back at 12 pm , CM asked the staff at the hopsital to call another doctor, CM got to the hospital at 1 56, 3 hours after, there was serious risk of blood clotting for the patient. She was not aware of this letter.
CM was able to know what the other doctor did, because other doctor kept records.
Chernoff :
was not aware of the letter, cause it was hospital procedures, a DR is supposed to call in within 1 hour and 20 mn
*****
Dennis Hix
Chernoff :
Met Chernoff last night, drove to LA last night.
Bought a home, next door to CMs children in Las Vegas, met CM, took his number, has heart problems, so Cm became his doctor
Met CM in 1999, 2000
Previous doctor said his problem could not be fixed. Called CM. CM fixed his problem.
Went to a hospital , CM did a procedure, put 6 stents, and later on 6 other stents It Was in 2000 or 2001
CM is the best doctor
CM did some work for free.
His brother needed to go to the ER , but couln' afford it, CM worked for free. For his brother
Walgren
Saw CM after 2000, CM is his doctor
in 2009, recived a letter
CM didn't say what he was going to do, never mentionned MJ, learned about MJ on TV
CM's care was about the heart, monitored him, doesn't know if he kept records.
Last stent was about 2003, 2004, or 2005
Still treated him for other things, but not for sleep disorder, or drug dependency
*****
Ruby Mosley
lives in Houston
lives in acres home community, which is a 75% senior citizen area, most of them home owners, 3 colleges, 3 school districts. Has lived there since 1949. She's the secretary of Acres home citizen's council. It's an organisation of 15 city clubs, and associations, has been the seccretary for over 30 years.
Acres home, is senior citizen, low income area. There is consistent medical care in Acres home. Knows CM and his father. Met CM in 2003,when CMs father passed. Met him at CMs father's funeral. In 2006, CM opened a clinic in Acres home.
CM is not greedy. If he had been greedy, he would not have come to Acres home, 75% of he people have low income, he made less than in Las Vegas. He did it because he made a comittment to continue medical care after his father passed. CMs father had a clinic in Acres Home
She was treated by CM, she got stents, CM treated her husband also. Her husband is 82 years old, he is better.
Walgren
Saw CM at the clinic, doesn't know what he did in his personal life (Walgren mentions Sade Anding, CMs social life)
Described CM as an encyclopedia, she corrects, she said he was very knowledgeable
CM can recite details as it relates to medical care, medical plans
Chernoff :
CM is very knowledgeable, pro active, took time with his patients;
CM would come every 2 weeks to Acres home, he had lots of patients , she was there, knows most of the patients.
CM took his time with her, explained things to her, to the extreme. Appointement could go on for an hour, he saw all the patients, no matter how long it took
She misses CM.
Recess until tomorrow 8 45
met CM in las Vegas
Met CM 11 years ago in Las vegas, had a heart attack. University medical center couldn't stop the heart attack, so they called CM
CM talked to him for a few minutes about the procedure, made sure he understood, asked him to sign papers. Then took thim to the procedure room to do an angiograph.
Had high blood pressure, but didn't expect to have a heart attack, was 57.
Procedure : was not sedated, CM let him do that, did the procedure , told him he had found the problem.
CM always explains everything
Received 1 stent.
Had follow up visits, first one was 3 weeks after the first procedure
keeps in constant contact with Dr Murray, because of his medical condition, and became friends with CM.
Had other doctors in the past, but did not become friends with them. Became friends because of the way CM cares for his patients, loves his patients , the way he made him feel.
CM would not abandon a patient, does not rush patients, once was in his office for 4 and a half hours;
CM would take the time it takes to explain, in laymans words, calls the family to make sure they understand.
CM is not greedy, «*didn't charge my deductable*» (what's a deductable ?) , accepted his employees without knowing if they were insured.
Were you aware that CM was taking a job with MJ? CM told him that he would be back, had made arrangements, gave him his phone numbers.
Walgren
Came to LA on Monday night, stayed in a hotel last night.
Has given 2 media interviews
In 2009, can't remeber if he saw CM professionnally. Is sure about 2008, not sure about 2009
CM informed him he woas leaving his practice , coud have been in april, is not sure
CM is his best friend
Was treated for heart condition, had nothing to do with sleep disorder, nothing to do with drug dependency.
Was in a hospital, explained what was going to happen, and the hospital got him to sign papers.
Could see the monitors in the room
there were 3 additional people, so 4 people in the room , doing the rocedure, with monitors.
Had aditional stents , all the same way, in a hopsital, with personnel.
Chernoff :
was not paid for the media interview, did them to help his friend.
Helped because of his love, his compassion, and doesn't think he did what he's accused of.
Walgren :
Assuming CM had acted with gross negligence , he would still be here to support his friend
***
Andrew Guest
met Murray in 2002, was 39, through his primary physician. His physician called CM on his cell phone, while he was out of country. Had pain chest, arm chest, headache
CM ran some tests, did not do a treadmill test, CM wouldn't do it because it was dangerous, could have died, so did it in the hospital.
Had stents put.
Allergic to iodine, CM gave him medication for the allergery; Was awake during the procedure , a little sedated.
CM stopped during the procedure to check on him.
Solved the chest pain.
Had other stents, in another hospital, because the first hospital didn't have the right equipment, Cm wouldn't do it there
Dr Murray is the best doctor, explains everything , makes sure you're OK, called him at home during the week end.
Walgren
knows Mr Causey, did another intervies on CNN, with Denis Hix and Ruby Mosley
treatment was for a heart condition, had a team to help him
there was the necessary medical equipment
CM never gave him propofol in his bedroom
Every patient deserves that level of care ( witness wants to add something, Walgren doesn't let him)
Chernoff :
CM provides great care in his office too (that's what Mr Guest wanted to add)
CNN dind't pay him, believes CM needs support, apreciate his kindness, he's alive thanks to CM
Walgren
nothing would change his mind about CM
****
Lunette Sampson
Had 3 heart attacks in Las Vegas, november 2008, feb 2009, april 2009 , has congestive heart failure.
Had been treated by CM before the heart attack, had a heart attack in 95. CM treated her with medication, performed many procedures.
In 2008, CM was out of town when she had a heart attack. After the heart attack , another doctor told her she was OK, but CM didn't think so, wanted to do another test, she wouldn't do it, had a second heart attack.
CM is a very caring and thorough doctor, he looked at a problem she had in the legs, he saw that was where the problem came from.
CM doesn't rush through things. «*When we come we know wer'e gonna be there a while*».
CM is not greedy, he's taking care of people pro bono, pays for medication when patients can't pay
Walgren
lawyer Miranda Subik contacted her.
Miranda works at Media Masters, media masters is in her e mail adress.
CM never mentionned MJ, said he was taking a one year sabbatical, and was going to London, referred her to another doctor.
Was distressed because doesn't trust other doctors because of what happened to her
CM treated her for heart condtion
CM received a discipline letter from Sunrise Hosipital : December 24th had been called at 11am, called again at 11 05, CM called back at 12 pm , CM asked the staff at the hopsital to call another doctor, CM got to the hospital at 1 56, 3 hours after, there was serious risk of blood clotting for the patient. She was not aware of this letter.
CM was able to know what the other doctor did, because other doctor kept records.
Chernoff :
was not aware of the letter, cause it was hospital procedures, a DR is supposed to call in within 1 hour and 20 mn
*****
Dennis Hix
Chernoff :
Met Chernoff last night, drove to LA last night.
Bought a home, next door to CMs children in Las Vegas, met CM, took his number, has heart problems, so Cm became his doctor
Met CM in 1999, 2000
Previous doctor said his problem could not be fixed. Called CM. CM fixed his problem.
Went to a hospital , CM did a procedure, put 6 stents, and later on 6 other stents It Was in 2000 or 2001
CM is the best doctor
CM did some work for free.
His brother needed to go to the ER , but couln' afford it, CM worked for free. For his brother
Walgren
Saw CM after 2000, CM is his doctor
in 2009, recived a letter
CM didn't say what he was going to do, never mentionned MJ, learned about MJ on TV
CM's care was about the heart, monitored him, doesn't know if he kept records.
Last stent was about 2003, 2004, or 2005
Still treated him for other things, but not for sleep disorder, or drug dependency
*****
Ruby Mosley
lives in Houston
lives in acres home community, which is a 75% senior citizen area, most of them home owners, 3 colleges, 3 school districts. Has lived there since 1949. She's the secretary of Acres home citizen's council. It's an organisation of 15 city clubs, and associations, has been the seccretary for over 30 years.
Acres home, is senior citizen, low income area. There is consistent medical care in Acres home. Knows CM and his father. Met CM in 2003,when CMs father passed. Met him at CMs father's funeral. In 2006, CM opened a clinic in Acres home.
CM is not greedy. If he had been greedy, he would not have come to Acres home, 75% of he people have low income, he made less than in Las Vegas. He did it because he made a comittment to continue medical care after his father passed. CMs father had a clinic in Acres Home
She was treated by CM, she got stents, CM treated her husband also. Her husband is 82 years old, he is better.
Walgren
Saw CM at the clinic, doesn't know what he did in his personal life (Walgren mentions Sade Anding, CMs social life)
Described CM as an encyclopedia, she corrects, she said he was very knowledgeable
CM can recite details as it relates to medical care, medical plans
Chernoff :
CM is very knowledgeable, pro active, took time with his patients;
CM would come every 2 weeks to Acres home, he had lots of patients , she was there, knows most of the patients.
CM took his time with her, explained things to her, to the extreme. Appointement could go on for an hour, he saw all the patients, no matter how long it took
She misses CM.
Recess until tomorrow 8 45
you&meforever
Proud Member
i was thinking exactley the same as you...
Jabberwock Jackson
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No, it's over for today.
Ben
Proud Member
They stopped til tomorrow because of scheduling issues
There was a scheduling issue so court's over for today. Back tomorrow at 8:45am!
bouee
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I haven't read your posts yet, so I don't know how you feel about today's testimony, I thought it was 
uke: when the procedures were described, with all the staff needed, the monitors, he even refused to do some procedures or tests when he thought it was dangerous......
Yet he gave propofol in a bedroom, with no equipment. If that's not being money hungry, then I don't know what it is ....
uke: when the procedures were described, with all the staff needed, the monitors, he even refused to do some procedures or tests when he thought it was dangerous...... Yet he gave propofol in a bedroom, with no equipment. If that's not being money hungry, then I don't know what it is ....
Erikmjfan
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i am getting kind of annoyed by the delays. the next witnessess are the 2 experts. Dr. White was there everyday for the last week but he cant be there when he is about to testify? I like the judge but he needs to get a little bit pro-active when it comes to actually getting the trial running...
MJJ7777
Proud Member
I haven't read your posts yet, so I don't know how you feel about today's testimony, I thought it was
Yet he gave propofol in a bedroom, with no equipment. If that's not being money hungry, then I don't know what it is ....
None of this stuff makes sense. Whats going on here???:wacko:
Kingofpop4ever3000
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Personally, I don't think the prosecution scored many points with the jury today. And that crying jag by Murray just added to what I personally consider to be nothing more than a defense pity-party. I'm sorry if I sound heartless. But after Murray admitted giving Michael that propofol when Murray knew better as said by the patients talking about great he treated them, I feel nothing but disgust because Michael should be here right now. If only Murray had not given Michael anything. Again, this is all just my opinion.
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bouee
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Totally agree with you . Murray seems to have good skills with people, people trust him very easily. I noticed that with the prosecutions witnesses too (Murray's staff and Murray's patients who testified for the prosecution). And Murray likes to be the hero, telling every one about the things that he did. Well some of them. I'm sure Michael knew everything about his Acres home clinic. I don't think he knew about the 5347 girlfriends, I don't think the patients knew that the staff at his clinic was not qualified.
elusive moonwalker
Guests
Walgren did a good job imo. you didnt want him to go to hard as the jury may not have liked it. but he made some excellent points.showing that they would defend murray no matter what which shows they are bias.making them point out all the equipment and staff in the hospital and at one point the witness said murray wanted to do a procedure at the hos cause it might go wrong at his office and he wanted backup.medical records etc showed murray wasnt an idiot. he knew what was required. showed the witnesses had been on t.v were hired by murrays p.r firm. he showed it was all heart issues murray delt with so why he might be good at that he wasnt good at treating mj.also there was the discipline action agaibst murray brought up aswelli thought walgren might have brought up the unqualifed staff but i cant remember if most of those witnesses were treated at his clinic or just other hospitals.personally these ppl are irrelevent abd i hope the jury felt the same and are wondering when the defence is actually gonna start
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Ben
Proud Member
Walgren did once more an excellent job. And if the witnesses praised CM, good. It only emphasises the fact that he had 2, standards of care, and that he was strangely a lot less cautious, thorough and caring with the cash cow he had found. I doubt Michael had any idea of the risks he was taking with his own life. But again, no propofol, no "once in a lifetime opportunity" for CM, right?
His tears show nothing but selfishness; I dont remember him shedding tears when Alvarez talked about Paris and Prince seeing their dad on the bed...
His tears show nothing but selfishness; I dont remember him shedding tears when Alvarez talked about Paris and Prince seeing their dad on the bed...
Bonnie Blue
Proud Member
Does anyone know why walgren asked all the patients if they had any issues with drug dependency, as well as insomnia? Am not sure if this is the prosecution's buying into the defence's theory of mj's addiction to propofol/demoral or what. I was hoping the pros wd clear up the demoral issue and the supposed image of mj as an addict but i'm not seeing it.
elusive moonwalker
Guests
The rebuttal is for that after the detox dr testifyes tom and murray is accusing mj of being an addict so walgren asks if he ever treated them fot ontop of insomnia
wendy2004
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I think Walgren is using the word dependency to establish the difference between dependency and addiction. They are not the same. And the defense's next witness is supposed to be an expert on addiction. My guess is this will be a point of contention tomorrow regarding any meds Michael was dependent on for sleep.
The demerol would also then be put in proper context for being used while at Klein's. It may have been used cuz MJ depended on it to get thru dermatological procedures, however, that did not mean he was addicted to the point that he had to have it when he was NOT being treated for dermatological issues or any other medical issue. We already know demerol nor its metabolites were found in his system to have been of any effect on 6/25.
What the defense tries to do and what they will be able to establish tomorrow may be 2 different things. We'll have to wait and see...BUT I think Walgren is ready to do battle. He's already peppering his questions today using the word dependency...which shows the angle from which the Prosecution is viewing this, imo. Some ppl may have a prob with the word cuz they equate it with addiction and the media will most definitely interchange the two...however, it will be up to Walgren tomorrow to make the distinction and make it clearly for the jury.
soulmum
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I think Murray's tears were genuine - only thing is I believe he's crying because he's seeing his medical licence fly out the window.
Sounds as if he was a caring doctor who did some good things for the less fortunate but it doesn't excuse his gross negligence with MJ.
Sounds as if he was a caring doctor who did some good things for the less fortunate but it doesn't excuse his gross negligence with MJ.
Naturelle
Proud Member
I wasn't expcting an early dismisal today. But I don't think Judge Paster is very happy with the defence right about now. They have a witness who is MIA and scheduling issues... wha, what is going on there?
I guess I'll go take a nap and maybe they will have their act together when I wake up. (puke bucket by bedside). lol
I guess I'll go take a nap and maybe they will have their act together when I wake up. (puke bucket by bedside). lol
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elusive moonwalker
Guests
Yeah i hope walgren is up for it tom. so far this has prob been his easiest cross case ever
Justthefacts
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Seeing how these were Murray's witnesses and not the DA's witnesses I am going to assume you made a error
Ben
Proud Member
I understand those people's gratitude for CM, but in the end, you may be the best driver ever, if you run someone over, you're guilty. The end.
They dont want to acknowledge the fact maybe there are sides of him they dont know.
They dont want to acknowledge the fact maybe there are sides of him they dont know.
love is magical
Proud Member
You have to understand that the world does not evolve around this trial. Sometimes, delays are unavoidable. We have seen how the trial was delayed becasue of death in Dr. Shafer's family and new lab test result. If the defense's expert witnesses have prior obligations that they need to attend, the judge cannot force them to come to court to testify. Judge Pastor has done an excellent job in running this trial.
bluetopez
Proud Member
Murray crys when they talk nice about him ONLY! Yet, didn't shed a damn tear when they showed two pics of MJ dead. He didn't even cry about how MJs children reacted. That is sick to me.
Murray Patients/Friends need to be honest with themselves & Murray because it is clear he did wrong and it's sad they can't except it and tell him that. They aren't doing Murray any favors by filling his already big head with hot air telling him litterally "Hey, I'll stand by u even though u killed someone just because u saved me." That is scary, wrong and SELFISH IMO.
Murray Patients/Friends need to be honest with themselves & Murray because it is clear he did wrong and it's sad they can't except it and tell him that. They aren't doing Murray any favors by filling his already big head with hot air telling him litterally "Hey, I'll stand by u even though u killed someone just because u saved me." That is scary, wrong and SELFISH IMO.
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Ingelief
Proud Member
To me its BS that there AGAIN schedule issues. They knew it was short with the patients.. they brought everybody to court for only 1 hour! What a cost of money for nothing!
how stupid is this!! So many delays already..
who fault was this?!
how stupid is this!! So many delays already..
who fault was this?!
JMie
Guests
Could it be that the defense invented these scheduling issues on purpose, so that the jury are going away for the day with this image of Murray being a perfect doctor?..