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Murray Trial Day 21, October 31st - Discussion

White is arguing FARRR to hard for the defense...I would NEVER allow anyone I know to EVER let White be their anesthesiologist. HE is FAR to crooked.
 
He said the right word first. Muarry provided a service. Trying to back peddle is not going to work. Any juror could see that White does not want to answer the questions truthfully because he is being paid. Good that he has retired. He wants us to believe that the defense never told him how much he would get paid for this job!! Yes White we were all born yesterday.
 
So now White is trying to say that he could move from the bedside if the oxi has no alarm. He really is trying to back up Muarry. Walgren has to push him to answer those Yes/No questions.
 
OMG I can't believe that dr White is saying. If I were his patient I would run as far as I can
 
I LOVE YOU, DAVID WALGREN!!!


He's getting White to concede that leaving the room w/ just a pulse oximeter has no effect. It's like pulling teeth with a pair of tweezers getting White to concede that Murray was inadequate in the standard of care but Walgren is getting it on the record. YES!

There's just some things that CANNOT be gotten around. You can tell White isn't interested in agreeing but for the sake of his reputation and credibility, he ultimately HAS to agree with Walgren.
 
WOW!!! This White guy is impossibly bias. I really, really, really dislike him. He's bank account must be really needing the money. He must be Murray's new best friend. He is bordering killing his reputation. Luckily he is retired otherwise, no body would want to have him as their doctor!
 
fuck, i only hope the Jury doesn't buy his shit - that it's ok to abandon the patient after observing for 30 minutes
 
So now he is trying to say that not calling 911 was not wrong, and he is still having a problem understand English words. Money talks.

White is a jerk and I believe one of the reasons he makes these statements is because he does not have a job anymore so the impact on his career would not be great. He advocates keeping people under with no emergency equipment and then leaving them after 20 mins.

Oh now he back tracked and said Muarry should have called 911 sooner but it would have no different outcome.
 
I love that Walgren puts White in the hot seat and asks him what HE would have done. It forces him to say what is appropriate and it shows how differently Murray did things. He's still trying to make excuses for Murray talking about Murray was in an isolated area and couldn't call 911. :blink:
 
I cannot believe what I am hearing. This guy is supposed to be a medical expert. I am shocked.
 
Dr. White is really annoying me. The way he tries to get around questions (... to keep his money). Unbelieveable! If the jury isn't stupid, they'll see that!

David Walgren is the BEST!!
 
go david. here we go. he currently retired practiced for 30 years. you would agree you an expert in diprivan? yes. u are expert in modeling? No im not. you rely on others including shaffer? for that? yes i do. you would agree. on june 25th murray deviated in care? in multply instances? white says yes. agree instances in the preceding 2 months prior were negligence? yes i would says white. whats your understanding from reading murrays interview what time of dip amounts were given in the previous two months? white says i spoke to murray twice. objection substained. re asks aware of bolus and drip being used by murray? yes says white aware he did it for 2 months? yes.

according to murray he gave 50mg blus prior to the drip.? white says it was a mix between 25 and 50 mixed with lidocaine. walgren says all my questions are based on murays own words. white says yes i understand that. walgren asks how would you go about doing that? judge tells white to stop brining up his convos he had with murray as white says i could say based on what murray told me.. white says i dont know the details of how murray gave the drip? could have been with two seperate Iv lines? yes its possible says white. agree in those prior 2 months that giving bolus and a drip would be exstreamly dangerous? yes says white wihtout proper monitoring. complications could cause death? yes. would u ever give diprivan without basic airway equipment? i would have ways to give exsisted ventiliation ambu bag? he would at least have a bag and mask . ever given siprivain in bedroom? no. ever heard of anyone doing it b4 this case? no.

always given in a hospital type setting.? white says in clinic/office. etc walgren says a hospital type setting. whites trying to get around the monitoring equipment issue. white says i always have a bag and mask. walgrens going through equipement. white says its desireable!! to have certain equipment. u prepar for the wosrt case senario? white says whats the worse case senario! another hostile witness.

pulse oxy. is essential admits white. B.P monitoring? yes says white. how frequantly should u do B.P tests? depends on how the dip is given says white. either via a bolus or IV but at least every 15 mins

when u give a bolus then IV do u lose a tacycardiogram yes capnography? yes not everyone uses cap... but its important

shaffer said maintaing records was a deveation do u agree? desireable is the word white uses again. but agree re keeping records for medical records/lawsuits.. then white says he doesnt think it contributed to mj death. walgren objects and whites comment is striken. he thinks its deveation from the standard of care not a grvious one as he doesnt understand the diff levels of deveation in this case. but not unconscienable as shaffer said . its between minor and serious says white. he keeps records when hes in a hospital setting. .walgren says u keep notes cause its helpful to go back and look at how the paitent did? yes says white

pre procedure assesment? what is is it. to see if they have other issues that may cause problems when giving diprivan. anything that may cause apnea for ex. main risk with dip is apnea? white says in genral diprivna is ok and u dont have apnea problems unless given to much or two quick. names painkillers as a contributer.. walgren says and benzos aswell? white says that effect is different. whites going on about painkillers effecting the sytem

how much u been paid so far ? $11,000. at the end he will get (white says if they have money they havnt got any) his statement is striken after an objection. defence object. the only money u are getting is $11k? is that everything? white says he cant say. airline trips etc. white doesnt want to answer or admit anymore than $ 11K. white hopes he gets more. and says i charge $3500 a day but i dont think ill charge that cause i dont think they have the money. hes been there 11 days.are u gonna bill the defence $3500 a day? answer no

ever had a paitent stop breathing after u gave dip? when i i give for induction (white ramblings on and doesnt answer question) walgren asks again. white says yes. i use a bag or mask or intubate the paitent. so u can manage a problem? answer yes.

explain the dr paitent relationship? showing compassion knowing about their records. doing your bestfor them. agree a dr has an obligation to do no harm? absoloutly is his reply. agree that giving dip for 2 months violated the oath to do no harm? white says there was no harm in those two months? walgren says did he violate the oath. white says he provided a service to mj!! as mj requested/demanded it. walgren jumps on that. murray was offered money to give mj diprivan? white says murray didnt get any money. walgren tells him to answer the question. white says murray was offered money to be mjs dr. whos the final decesion maker in giving medical treatement. white says its joint. walgren asks again. white says the dr always have the option to walk away. walgresn asks if u were asked to give dangerous care would you walk away? yes i would never administer i would walk away

whys it necess to continuasly monitor when giving dip. white says very easy to switch inbetween the levels of sedation. to go deeper and a lesser level of sedation. was it your testimony that if u inject with 25mg its ok to just walk out the room? white says giving 25mg will only last 15 mins. so if u watch them for 25 mins and leave the room i see no problem!! ( thats the defence case) walgren brings up paitents vary in theri repsonce.wlagren says so its ok to just leave the room after 15 mins? white no says 30 mins! and if theres no issue i can leave the bedside. walgren says thats in a hopsital setting right? white says yes thats the only place i give it. walgren asks again you give 25mg in a room with no equipment etc watch for 30 mins and just leave. whites going on about monitoring a hospital setting and a pulse oxy. david says a pulse oxy means nothing without an alarm. what value does it have with no alarm if u arent in the room?? white wont answer the question keeps going off on other things. what value does it serve in your absense? white agreess it has no value at all if you are not in the room.

25mg mg assumes no other benzos are given interms of giving 25 is safe. white says if given hours earlier they might not effect that much.(contridicts the defence statement) if u know a paitent had loraz and midaz and then u gave 25 diprivan would you still leave the room or would you be more cautious. after watching for 30 mins would you still leave with no monitoring equipment. white wont answer the question. he thinks 30 mins is adequate for a small push of diprivan. walgren says its appriotate and a normal standard of care to give dip ontop of midaz and loraz then leave the room with no monitoring equipment or staff?. white keeps going on. walgren needs to cut him off cause hes letting white go on trying to defend murray. so mj likes to push the diprivan would that change your mind about leaving and monitoring? would you leave the room? no.

you cant justify murray not calling 911? no i cant says white. extream deveation? whites not familiary with these terms and claims. did murray act like a cardiologist? white says i dont know what he did.walgren said u read his report. white claims mj was in cardiac arrest! and says murray acted like many drs would!!. did murray act like someone well skilled in cardiac support? white says i cant make that assement. but i would have done things diff. i would have called 911 straight away. whites claims it was an isolated area of the house!! so was difficult. walgren says it was a bedroom!! that was a WTF moment. white is doing his best to defend murray. saying no phonelines in the house the house was secure! murray had a cell phone in his hand he called amir. wasnt murray able to ring 911 and put it on speaker phone?? yes says white but need to know the address!! and access the property!! walgrens jumps on him. cause white keeps going on about this gate. white says murray called amir to get medical assitance? walgren says murray never asked amir. white says he didnt know that. isnt it quicket to dial 911 then amir and leave a voice message.? yes but then white says you can have ppl on speed dial aswell!!! white says he doesnt think not calling 911 earlier would ahve made any difference
 
I ant believe what I am hearing. White is actually trying to justify Murray not calling 911. I can't believe a doctor is saying these things
 
White just killed the defence! The first thing to do it TO CALL 911! He would have done that if he was in the situation of Murray!

Murray gonna go in jail thnanks to his defence!

Walgren is handsome!
 
White snaking AROUND the question. Does he make a good witness. No
Any jury can see through his biasness towards CM in need of the money I guess.
Standard of care.
No phone in the house/ Unusal situation.
Walgren :
He called MAW using his cell, can he not press 911 on the same phone?
He didn't tell MAW to summon medical assistance
Isn't it quicker to call 911 and continue resustication.
White: Should have called 911 sooner.

Does not make the outcome of this case any diffirent?.....
(What is he out of his mind Liar! Shafer would have him pounded to a pulp. Every single minute earlier could have saved him.!)
 
Everytime White gives a dumb answer trying to excuse something Murray did, Walgren gives a little chuckle...almost like "wtf...are you seriously saying this, dude?"

It's a little bit condescending but oh so appropriate. :lol: The jury is prolly thinking wtf as well. Not telling paramedics and docs that he gave propofol could have been an oversight. He didn't think it was a devious act on Murray's part. L.O.L!
 
Walgren : Murray at UCLA did not give full disclousre that its not just an oversight or overlooking standard of care that can also be a lie isnt it? ""
Could be...
 
Wow! Walgren doesn't give White any chance to snake around the questions. Great how he asked that this could also be a lie. :) Oh yes, definately!!
 
Did you guys see how the judge looked at White after he tried to downplay that report/letter he wrote.
 
pls ignore typo's

Walgren asking him if it's ok to walk out of the room after 15 to 20 mins of monitoring after giving 25 mg of diprivan
Walgren asks if it's ok to leave a patient alone without monitoring or additional personell.Walgren asks what value a pulse oximeter without an alarm has when one leaves the room, White trying to talk his way around it says it does mean something not ''nothing'' as Walgren states.
What a fucking asshole
Walgren asks again what value a pulse oximeter has if someone is out of the room, White tries to hassle his wway out of it but then agrees that there is no value at all, that it doesn't mean anything
asks White if the 25 mg propofol combined with other benzos is more dangerous than just 25mg of dip alone, asks White if he'd walk out of the room just like that with additional benzo's, White says no it depends when benzos were given, white asks again if he'd still be leaving the patient alone.
White says it depends on when it was given to have an combining effect. Walgren asks again if it's acceptable to administer midazolem and lorazepam without monitoring equipment and walk out, white asks what wlagren is referring to standard of care or standard practice. white says he's referring to standard of care
says if it would be ok to leave the patient, white says this is a special case cuz the physician was trying to provide sleep to the patient not a procedure
walgren asks if he'd let a patient who likes to push himself alone with all drugs while being out of the room. white says no I wouldn't leave the room
walgren asks if it's a great deviation from standard of care by hestiating delaying calling 911. White says he isn't familiar with standard of care.
Walgren asks him if in his opinion he acted like someone who is well skilled and well trained, white again states he can't make that assessment. as he wasn't there, walgren jumps on how he took murray's words for the gospel when it suited his agenda/assessment.
Whtie trying to hassle his way out of it, walgren asks again white says he would have done things differently, he says he would have done things differently but doesn't wanna admit that there is no excuse for murray not calling 911 immediately,
walgren asks him if he is aware of murray having a cell, white says now that u say yes.
Walgren asks when he'd call 911 after ressesetive meassures white says 2 to 5 mins
walgren asks if it's not the doctor moral obligation to tell the emts the truth about what's happened and what was given white states details can be overlooked!
!!
Walgren gets mad and asks him several times if failing mentioning propofol is a just a detail that's been overlooked? White again states things can be overlooked. Walgreen asks says so u wanna says all the time murrray rode in the ambu and at hospital it was just a detail he just failed to mentioned
white again states yes that's what he thinks, Walgren asks if it's possible that Murray lied on purpose witheld that info purposely, White agrees hesistantly.
 
whites embarassing himself trying to defend murray. hes making himself look stupid and a paid for defence hand

if u found mj in that state. you found a pulse assesed the situation. how long would it take you to decide you need to call 911. white asks you found a pulse? walgren says yes he found one and a heart rate white says if i was a cardiologist i would start cpr and call 911 within 3-5 mins!!!! this guy is unbelievable!!!

when the medics got there.doesnt murray have the obligation to tell the medics everything he gave me? white says sometimes you forget?. he thinks murray just forget. it was a minor detail!!! was it a detail murray over looked walgrens asks?? white says yes he overlooked it!!! walgren said after they rode in the ambulance did murray still forgot that detail? yes he forgot . or perhaps it was a lie says walgren? yes it could be says white

white says in his report he thought it was a cardiac arrest not a respitory?? white says no. walgren says so what other report did u do? he had phone conversations. whites trying to change his story. saying it was preliminary thoughts!!. not an actual report. he says it was a letter.

when a mixture of drugs are given it can cause breathing problems? yes agrees white. whites trying to say giving the xtra drugs depends on the time he gave interms of the effects on apnea. says it theoratical. wlagren says thats not what you said on friday re the loraz

whos responsible for brining the dip into mjs house. he says murray but says mj had his own supply!!!!. walgren asks where does murray say this in his interview. white says i had heard!! objection stricken. whites trying to say murray told him that in his interview. objections and the judge sends the jury out, hes not happy
 
Wow : it's a fireworks !! Walgren is doing great so far !
 
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