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Murray trial Day 23, November 3rd - discussion

rita.gibson said:
Though it's looking good for the prosecution and I'm sure Walgren will give a brilliant closing, I don't know why I'm still feeling so apprehensive.
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because you never know what the verdict will be. everyone thought OJ or Casey Anthony would be found guilty but they didn't. It can goe either way.
 
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We'll be inside the courtroom during deliberation so we can tell u everything that's happening. We'll alert everyone when we hear the buzzes
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There's no way of knowing how long the jury will be out deliberating. When we hear 3 buzzes in the courtroom it means there's a verdict.
2 minutes ago

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Here's the plan: trial resumes at 9 am, judge will read jury instructions, both sides will do their closing, more instructions, deliberation
3 minutes ago
 
ivy said:
because you never know what the verdict will be. everyone thought OJ or Casey Anthony would be found guilty but they didn't. It can goe either way.
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Thank you, I guess we're all feeling the same then. I've felt quite strong and confident all through this case but now I felt as though I was going to crack.
 
How the defense closing argument will deal with the gross negligence allegations is not at all clear. At trial, the defense never directly confronted them. The closest it came was testimony from their expert White that in some situations, "It's not always possible or commom" to live up to the formal expectations of standard of care.

What the defense can do is emphasize the testimony of former Murray patients.

"They had those great character witnesses that put a face on him," said Levine. Even a sixth patient called by the prosecution acknowledged Murray "saved my life" and was an attentive and caring doctor until he left his Las Vegas clinic to begin working for Michael Jackson fulltime.

Lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff will remind jurors that in his opening statement, he promised they would like Ruby Mosley, an 82 year old Murray patient from Houston. She indeed captivated the courtroom with her endearing and downhome style.

Murray's tears were apparent to jurors as Mosley described the medical clinic Murray set up in his father's memory in a Houston neighborhood of predominately low-income seniors.

The clear message: that Murray is a caring doctor, not in it just for the money.

if that's all , then they don't seem to have much chance imo
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he and other analysts note the very real possibility that even if jurors conclude Jackson did give himself the fatal dose, Murray could still be convicted.

That could occur because of the nature of the involuntary manslaughter charge. If jurors find that Murray was grossly negligent in his care of Jackson, and that this was, if not the direct cause, a "significant factor" in Jackson'sdeath.

There was much back and forth as the opposing attorneys went over the language of the instructions Judge Pastor will read the jurors after final arguments. At the prosecution's urging, and over defense opposition, jurors will be told Murray is still criminally liable if Murray "should have foreseen the possibility of harm that could result from his act."

this is good.
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Mark Geragos (who was willing to praise everything the defense did )told Anderson cooper the first day White took the stand , the defense clearly gave up on defending the negligence aspect of the case and shifted their attention to try and blame MJ for the lethal propofol dose,they believed according to him the jury instructions would state if the jurors believed Murray was not the direct cause of the death he should be cleared , Geragod said the defense had a good chance of finding 4 to 5 jurors who would agree with them IF the jury instructions contained such a phrase. Obvioulsy that did not happen, the jury instructions state even if he's indirect cause the jurors can still find him guilty because the whole case revolves around Murray's negligence.
 
Soundmind said:
Mark Geragos (who was willing to praise everything the defense did )told Anderson cooper the first day White took the stand , the defense clearly gave up on defending the negligence aspect of the case and shifted their attention to try and blame MJ for the lethal propofol dose,they believed according to him the jury instructions would state if the jurors believed Murray was not the direct cause of the death he should be cleared , Geragod said the defense had a good chance of finding 4 to 5 jurors who would agree with them IF the jury instructions contained such a phrase. Obvioulsy that did not happen, the jury instructions state even if he's indirect cause the jurors can still find him guilty because the whole case revolves around Murray's negligence.
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then the defense is stupid. we mentioned this before in CA involuntary manslaughter does not require a person to be a direct cause of death, being a significant factor is enough.
 
nice articels thx for posting everything here! good the pros starts

But ive got a question. I didnt follow the whole trial say 80 procent so ive got have missed it. But no new evidence is allowed in closing. Is the fingerprints ever adressed before? Because i never heared it?
 
here we go ladies and gentlemen, its judgement day...

thoughts go out to michaels family and loved ones.

we miss you michael
 
Im really nervous now. Listening to what more can i give and his speech from 2002. Im so sad right now :cry:
 
ivy said:
then the defense is stupid. we mentioned this before in CA involuntary manslaughter does not require a person to be a direct cause of death, being a significant factor is enough.
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But if even one juror demurs we have a hung jury, right? That's what makes me nervous. What happens then? Can the state try Murray again and again? And will they? Ugh.
 
ivy said:
then the defense is stupid. we mentioned this before in CA involuntary manslaughter does not require a person to be a direct cause of death, being a significant factor is enough.
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The people on In Session all but said that there is really no way to justify Murray's actions if the jury followed the instructions. According to the blond hair lawyer, there's a draft in the instructions that says that you can find Murray guilty if there was a intervening act that was foreseeable.

Like the defense is trying to say Michael self-injected, but the DA countered by saying that according to Murray's own statement Michael like to push propofol and the defense said themselves how desperate Michael was. If he was so desperate and he liked to pushed propofol, it should had been a foreseeable conclusion that Michael would take drugs or self-injected if Murray left him alone.
 
ivy said:
then the defense is stupid. we mentioned this before in CA involuntary manslaughter does not require a person to be a direct cause of death, being a significant factor is enough.
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yeah the defence and geragos both. they obviously dont even know the legal definition of th charge

morning afternoon everyone. i see the killer was out with his cheer leading squad of paitents last night. lets hope he enjoyed his last night(s) of freedom for a while.
 
Ingelief said:
But ive got a question. I didnt follow the whole trial say 80 procent so ive got have missed it. But no new evidence is allowed in closing. Is the fingerprints ever adressed before? Because i never heared it?
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no new evidence is allowed and yes fingerprints is addressed before.

indranee said:
But if even one juror demurs we have a hung jury, right? That's what makes me nervous. What happens then? Can the state try Murray again and again? And will they? Ugh.
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hung jury is highly unlikely.
 
indranee said:
But if even one juror demurs we have a hung jury, right? That's what makes me nervous. What happens then? Can the state try Murray again and again? And will they? Ugh.
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d.a decides whether to re try like spector
 
indranee said:
But if even one juror demurs we have a hung jury, right? That's what makes me nervous. What happens then? Can the state try Murray again and again? And will they? Ugh.
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If the jury is hung, it will be a retrial and everything starts over again.
 
This is the time.
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Oh dear. Walgren is planning a presentation. Why do I suddenly feel like this is going to be a very emotional closing? *gets tissue ready*

As far as the closing itself, I think based on his opening statement and questioning during this trial, Walgren will cover the most important points and cover lots of ground. Even his quotes before the trial started were so on point and showed how he felt about this case and where he intended to take it in advocating for Michael. The case was presented in a way I'm satisfied with up to this point so no reason to doubt Walgren will bring it all home in closing today.

I do, however, think it was wonderful how the case ended with the urine evidence proving Murray DID give Michael more propofol than he said and it ultimately proved to be important to the drip theory. I always felt the urine could be important but was distracted when Anderson testified and kinda dismissed its importance.

And then at the very VERY end of this case, Shafer put the results in proper context. The evidence the drip theory needed to support it came at the end in a big way. I mean, Jesus...over 2000mg??? That being the last piece of evidentiary information the jury received is just....can't describe it.

And to think it was the DEFENSE who made a big deal about the urine only to have it boomerang against them at the end...sweet.


Thanks to all for the news posts and info. This is it.
 
appeciate it if others want to do updates for th closing as i really want to concentrate and listen to this. (well the pros one. ill do updates for the defence one i think as it means i dont have to listen as much or take it in as much i should say)
 
from sky news
Attorneys have been discussing in court since 8.30am. Opening statements from each side expected to be 90 minutes, some time in middle of the day the jury will get the case
 
Good Morning/Afternoon all.

Will @MJJCommunity twitter be tweeting the timeline today? I'm wondering because @MJJCLegacyTeam redirects followers to that for court timeline. Does anyone have a stream link..Please?

Stand strong everyone. [hashtags for twitter] #MurrayTrial #United4MJ #Justice4MJ #LOVE

:heart:
souldreamer7
 
I am going into meetings at work, guys... will someone be doing commentary? Elsuive? :)

Hoping to watch it all in full on YT tonight...
 
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Judge said it will take him about half and hour to read the jury instructions. Then each side will have about 1 1/2 hour for their closing.
 
ivy said:
from sky news
Attorneys have been discussing in court since 8.30am. Opening statements from each side expected to be 90 minutes, some time in middle of the day the jury will get the case
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what exactly means "will get the case?"
will we get a verdict today?
 
ivy said:
from sky news
Attorneys have been discussing in court since 8.30am. Opening statements from each side expected to be 90 minutes, some time in middle of the day the jury will get the case
Click to expand...

thank ivy. lets hope its over today. postive thoughts
 
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Judge said it will take him about half and hour to read the jury instructions. Then each side will have about 1 1/2 hour for their closing.
 
here we go. courts starting the jury getting the case means exactly that. they will start their deliberations
 
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