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Official MJJC Support Thread - Japanese Tsunami

Autumn II said:
Thanks to all those who have given updates.

I think we should take a moment to understand/honor those who stayed behind. CNN http://www.cnn.com/ reported that all plant employees have been evacuated, except for a "handful." Some people are still needed their to keep the pumps going, monitor the situation, and so on. Do you realize that ALL LIKELY WILL DIE, and they KNOW it? They are being subjected to high levels of radiation. They are sacrificial in that sense, and are giving their lives to try to prevent an even worse disaster (whether or not they will be successful. . we just don't know.) The same thing happened at Chernobyl, where the fire crews that went in KNEW they would not survive. And they didn't. . . .

I think that we should take a moment to honor the courage of these people, ok?
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I am in total agreement Autumn. Love and all good wishes to Japan at this terrible time.
 
Several online newspapers mention "more explosions", I just don't see any details, so I don't know if they are referring to the explosions we already know about or if there were actually more.

And 2 workers in reactor 4 are missing.
 
Milka said:
You are a lot better at it than I am.
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No , you are the best ! (You know, "I love you more / I love you most ! " So... I win ! ;D)

The IRSN has set up a FAQ on their site. You can e mail questions to them, and they will publish their answers to the most frequently asked questions. They have also put some dicuments online to help understand the situation.

http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Documents/home.htm (in french)

A few questions and answers :

how long does it take to cool the core after a shutdown : several months. During these months, the temperature gradually lowers , but the reactor and the supression pool (where used fuel is kept) still need to be cooled and kept in water.
Used fuel will cool much faster than the core. Dangerous particles in used fuel have a lifetime of 8 days and have completely disappeared in 100 days.
In Fukushima, supression pools are above the reactors, outside of the protective shell, on the higher part of the building.

Comparison to Chernobyl : In Chernobyl, the explosion happened while the reactor was still working. In Japan, all the reactors have been shutdown. If there was an explosion, an explosion of a reactor that has been shutdown would be less radioactive than the explosion of a working reactor.

Can the current radioactive leaks affect France and the french islands / Western Europe ? Due to the winds, the southern hemisphere will not be impacted. Radioactivity will have lowered to insignificant levels when it reaches wester Europe.

How is the IRSN informed about the current situation in Japan ? : IAEA, French embassy, foreign IRSN counterparts. The IRSN has sent one of their expert - an environment specialist - to Japan. They get their information sometimes up to 10 hours after an incident.

What is the status fot the reactors in Fukushima ?
6 reactors.
3 were active and shut down right after or during the earthquake (1 2 3), 3 were shutdown prior to the earthquake (4 5 6). The IRSN doesn't know how long before the earthquake these reactors had been shut down, they don't know either if their cores are still in the reactors.

A reactor can be compared to a kettle (the core would be the resistor) : the water heats, evaporates creating steam and pressure, and the water level lowers. So in the reactor the steam has to be let out to release pressure. The steam that is released is filtered, ie much less radioactive.
If the core is out of the water, even partially, it heats up, and fission elements are released. It creates hydrogen, and if hydrogen goes out in the air while releasing steam, it can cause an explosion. (personal note : hydrogen has been said several times to be the cause of explosions in reactor 1 and 3)

The suppression pool has to be cooled also. It appears that in Fukushima there is also a cooling problem with these pools.
In reactor 2, the pool is not protected anymore, there is no longer a roof over it (the building exploded). The IRSN doesn't know how much used fuel there is in that pool, and its satus.

The shell of reactor nr 2 has been damaged, the immediate consequence is a permanent highly radioactive leak, creating very serious difficulties for the staff at Fukushima.

The IRSN is worried about the state of the pool in Reactor 4. They do not understand what caused the explosion in reactor 4, do not know how much used fuel is there, and since when it's there.


Consequences on health and environment : the only radioactivity measures known at this time are the radioactivity at the Fukushima plant. Until they have more information , they can only evaluate the situation based on previous incidents, not on reality. They have sent an expert to Japan and hope to get the information they need to evaluate the current situation.
 
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bouee said:
No , you are the best ! (You know, "I love you more / I love you most ! " So... I win ! ;D)
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Ok, you win, you love me most! ;)

About the fire in reactor 4 - there is indeed another fire, on derstandard.at it says now it broke out Wednesday morning Japan time.
 
From an ASN press release 7pm CET (4 hours ago)

http://www.asn.fr/ (in french)

they mention 2 explosions this morning in reactor 2 (one at 6am JST, the other one at 10 am JST)

Reactor nr 4 was shutdown in november 2010, its used fuel pool is partially protected, part of the roof has been blown away. Tepco is looking for a way to pour more water onto it.
 
Milka said:
About the fire in reactor 4 - there is indeed another fire, on derstandard.at it says now it broke out Wednesday morning Japan time.
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Yes it's been reported here too .....
 
Autumn II said:
I think we should take a moment to understand/honor those who stayed behind. CNN http://www.cnn.com/ reported that all plant employees have been evacuated, except for a "handful." Some people are still needed their to keep the pumps going, monitor the situation, and so on. Do you realize that ALL LIKELY WILL DIE, and they KNOW it? They are being subjected to high levels of radiation. They are sacrificial in that sense, and are giving their lives to try to prevent an even worse disaster (whether or not they will be successful. . we just don't know.) The same thing happened at Chernobyl, where the fire crews that went in KNEW they would not survive. And they didn't. . . .

I think that we should take a moment to honor the courage of these people, ok?
Click to expand...


May these heroes be showered with God blessings... May He be with them and us all.

...
 
aki.jp;3296231 said:
I’ｍ Japanese.
All Japanese people are very sad.

thank you your Support！
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The whole world is sad with what is happening with Japan. :( I'm happy you're ok. :hug:



I have not read the whole thread, but I heard this Wednesday runs the risk of another earthquake happens. This was confirmed? :scratch:

In Brazil today, many Japanese (who live here and Brazilians who were in Japan) arrived here today in my city (Sao Paulo). They reported it was the time of the earthquake and it was scary. They were in shock. And there are many Japanese living in Japan and came to Brazil to visit family and they do not know if they return to Japan, they are fear. Very sad it all. :(

And I also saw so many pictures that moved me in Brazilian newspapers and elsewhere... this was one of them:

japan1.jpg
> “Hope is the thing with feathers, that perches in the soul, and sings the tune without words, and never stops at all.” – Emily Dickinson

More prayers for Japan. :angel: :pray:
 
please..continue to post this around other forums.facebook wherever you can...thanks you.
 
People from all around the world should pray for Japan's people in all languages for the Japanese people to remain strong and for the nuclear plant to calm down. Let's not stop praying to God for His help with this. Reports are saying all workers have now left the plant.
 
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From a french news channel : the shell of reactor 3 might have been damaged too.

Has anyone else heard that ?
 
I forgot to post this yesterday. On the news (ORF) they spoke to an Austrian in Tokyo. He said that the nervousness is fueled by Europe/the EU, the American community in Tokyo didn't give out warnings and most Americans didn't leave Tokyo for the USA. He almost sounded pissed at Europe (maybe he wasn't, that was just my impression).

I'm wondering now if the USA just keeps things quiet.

P.S. I wouldn't eat fish and seafood right now or for quite a while (I never do anyway, I'm a vegetarian, but if you are not, be careful).

P.P.S. Italy bans imports of Japanese food that was processed after March 11, mostly vegetables and fish. (derstandard.at)

1297908958057.jpg

That's reactor 4. Looks "promising" and safe ...

1297909042605.jpg

Aerial photo of Fukushima.

Source: http://derstandard.at/1297820484260...schrauber-werfen-Kuehlwasser-ueber-Reaktor-ab

Click pictures on above link to enlarge.
 
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Agency: Damaged container may be causing smoke, radiation spike
By the CNN Wire Staff (USA)
March 16, 2011 3:44 a.m. EDT
Tokyo (CNN) -- Officials asked workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant to evacuate temporarily Wednesday after a white cloud of smoke rose above the plant and radiation levels spiked.
Workers were "asked to withdraw to a safe area," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said. Authorities later allowed them to return after radiation levels dropped, the Tokyo Electric Power Company said.
Radiation levels at the plant have surged and dropped repeatedly over the past few days. The most recent spike "probably" occurred "because the containment vessel in reactor No. 3 has been damaged," a spokesman for Japan's nuclear safety agency later told reporters.
Edano said the smoke or vapor above the plant may have been caused by breach in the containment structure around the No. 3 reactor's containment vessel -- the steel and concrete shell that insulates radioactive material inside.
It was the second visible sign of trouble at the earthquake-damaged nuclear plant Wednesday.
Earlier in the day, firefighters battled a blaze in the plant's No. 4 reactor building.
Since the 9.0-magnitude earthquake and the resulting tsunami Friday, the plant has suffered a series of setbacks that have heightened fears about the possibility of widespread radiation contamination.
A hydrogen explosion took place at the plant's No. 2 reactor Tuesday. Hydrogen explosions had previously occurred in the plant's No. 1 and No. 3 reactors.
Another fire had broken out Tuesday in the No. 4 reactor. While it burned, radiation levels at the plant increased to about 167 times the average dose, the International Atomic Energy Agency said.
That dose quickly diminished with distance from the plant, and radiation fell back to levels where it posed no immediate public health threat, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.
But the deteriorating situation and concerns about a potential shift in wind direction that could send radiation toward populated areas prompted authorities to warn people as far as 18.6 miles (30 kilometers) from the plant to stay inside.
"There is still a very high risk of further radioactive material coming out," Prime Minister Naoto Kan said Tuesday, asking people to remain calm.
In all, the plant holds six reactors. At the time of Friday quake, Unit 4 was shut for maintenance and all fuel from the reactor had been moved to its spent fuel pool. Units 5 and 6 were also shut at the time of the quake, but both its reactors are loaded with fuel, the IAEA said.
About 200,000 people living within a 12.4-mile (20 kilometer) radius of the plant already had been evacuated.
Authorities also banned flights over the area.
Between Units 3 and 4, Japanese authorities said they had measured radiation dose rates of up to 400 millisieverts-per-hour, IAEA reported. That's equivalent to about 2,000 chest x-rays per hour, the agency said on its website. "This is a high dose-level value, but it is a local value at a single location and at a certain point in time," it added.
As a result of the monitoring of about 150 people from around the Daiichi site, 23 have been decontaminated, IAEA said.
The number of nuclear workers who remained on site has been slashed from 800 to 50.
"Their situation is not great," said David Brenner, director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University. "It's pretty clear that they will be getting very high doses of radiation. There's certainly the potential for lethal doses of radiation. They know it, and I think you have to call these people heroes."
Although the plant's three functioning reactors shut down automatically when the quake occurred, the tsunami that followed swamped the diesel generators that provided backup power to the reactor cooling systems.
Crews restored backup power, but problems keeping the reactors cool forced plant officials to take the drastic step of flooding them with seawater. Still, pressure buildups, problems with valves and a failure to fill a generator's gas tank led to hydrogen explosions and other problems.
Tuesday's events appeared to escalate the situation: Edano said the radiation releases from the explosion and fire were the first that appeared to pose a threat to human health, if only briefly.
On Monday, an explosion in the building housing the plant's No. 3 reactor apparently damaged both a water-filled chamber at the base of the reactor and the reactor containment unit itself, IAEA Director General Yukiya Amano told reporters Tuesday.
Damage to the core involved about 5% of its nuclear fuel, Amano said.
It was unclear how much radioactive material may have been emitted, what kind of health threat that could pose or when the danger would end.
"There are enormous quantities of radiation," said Dr. Ira Helfand, a member of Physicians for Social Responsibility, which opposes the use of nuclear power. "The containment is not nearly as good as around the reactor cores themselves. The potential for a major release of radiation from those sites is very real, as we saw last night with the fire."
Tapanese officials told the IAEA that radioactivity had been released "directly into the atmosphere" during Tuesday's fire in the No. 4 reactor, the U.N. watchdog organization said.
Crews put that fire out, and by Tuesday afternoon, Edano said, radiation readings -- which had reached dangerously high levels at the plant earlier -- had decreased.
Still, concerns about radioactive fuel boiling off its coolant and igniting continued Wednesday. Plant operators and government officials initially considered using helicopters to drop water into the cooling pond through the damaged roof of the reactor building, but rejected the idea when they discovered that the spent fuel pond was too far from the hole in the roof, a Kyodo News report said.
In addition, Edano said, cooling systems at two other reactors, No. 5 and No. 6, were "not functioning well."
Plant managers were considering removing panels from the buildings housing those reactors in an effort to prevent the hydrogen buildup that officials believe caused the other explosions, the IAEA said.
Edano said earlier that he could not rule out the possibility of a meltdown at all three troubled reactors at the plant.
A meltdown occurs when nuclear fuel rods cannot be cooled and melt the steel and concrete structure containing them. In the worst-case scenario, the fuel can spill out of the containment unit and spread radioactivity through the air and water. That, public health officials say, can cause both immediate and long-term health problems, including radiation poisoning and cancer.
If fuel rods inside the reactors are melting, "the million-dollar question is whether that melting will be contained," said James Walsh, a CNN contributor and research associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's security studies program.
At present, the long-term impact on public health from the crisis appears minimal, Brenner said.
"I think, at this point in time, there's no real evidence that there are health risks to the general population," he said.
The weather has emerged as a key variable, but on Wednesday morning, winds were blowing out to sea, CNN Meteorologist Sean Morris said.
Radiation levels in Tokyo, about 225 kilometers (140 miles) southwest of the plant, were twice the usual level on Tuesday. But the concentration -- 0.809 microsieverts per hour -- pose no health threat, the Tokyo Metropolitan Government said.

Source:http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=P1&iref=NS1
 
Yesterday evening an AUA airplane from Tokyo arrived in Vienna. Passengers were tested for contamination, but were not contaminated. The plane only stayed in Tokyo for 90 minutes. After a short stopover in Seoul to change crew they arrived in Vienna yesterday evening at about 7 pm.

One passenger said it wasn't easy to get out of Japan and that daily life gets harder and harder, he couldn't buy bread, rice or gas anymore.

The next flight back was postponed from afternoon to night (Vienna time) yesterday because of the weather situation and wind direction. An Austrian Federal Armed Forces expert is on board again to watch the situation in Tokyo during the flight. If it's not safe to land in Tokyo, they'll land at an alternate airport.

Source: http://wien.orf.at
 
Solemn vigil at Vienna's Parliament building yesterday evening as a sign against the "powerful nuclear power lobby". Initiated by the Austrian Green party. People were asked to bring candles. The Green energy spokesman Ruediger Maresch said the closest nuclear power plant is only 77 km away from Vienna - Mochovce (Slovakia). Many nuclear power plants in Eastern Europe don't even have a containment (the "protective shell"). But there are also enough in the West that he called "Schrottmeiler" - which means they are "crap" or "junk". Pick one. I heard it both ways (copyright Shawn Spencer - "Psych"). The money used for nuclear power plants must be invested in renewable energy, he said.

mahn1_big.jpg


A few more pictures: http://wien.orf.at/stories/504529/

Sorry for slight sarcasm creeping in, it had to happen sooner or later.
 
About iodine tablets:

I've heard warnings on our local news over the last few days, now I just heard it on NHK (via ORF with German translation) - do not take iodine tablets until authorities tell you to, wherever you are in the world. They can have serious side effects and can cause severe health problems, especially for people over 40 or 50 (an Austrian expert said that yesterday on ORF, I think, he said both, 40, 50).

I know it's hard to trust authorities in this situation, but they have no reason to lie about that (the side effects and health problems), it's not like there is a shortage of iodine tablets.

On NHK they also said that there is a lot of stuff on the internet that is wrong - and I have never heard that before, but they said not to drink mouthwash. That seems to be one of the wrong and even dangerous things that are said on the internet, that there is iodine in it (no idea if that is true), but don't drink it, there are other things in it that are not healthy (and if you have ever tasted mouthwash, I could never drink that, it would probably burn a hole into your stomach :puke: ).

P.S. Of course I'm not an expert or doctor, I just posted what was said on TV, if you are thinking about taking them, please ask a doctor before you do.


Japan apparently denied Russian nuclear experts entry into Japan. It's a team of Tschernobyl veterans. Russian Atomic Energy Agency says they are people who know how do deal with a nuclear emergency. Why they are denied entry is not clear. There are rumors that Japan doesn't want to give them insight into their reactors.

Source: http://derstandard.at (via Spiegel Online)

Hey, if they can still afford the top secret approach, the situation can't be THAT bad? Next question ... what are they trying to hide?
 
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Milka said:
About iodine tablets:

I've heard warnings on our local news over the last few days, now I just heard it on NHK (via ORF with German translation) - do not take iodine tablets until authorities tell you to, wherever you are in the world. They can have serious side effects and can cause severe health problems, especially for people over 40 or 50 (an Austrian expert said that yesterday on ORF, I think, he said both, 40, 50).

I know it's hard to trust authorities in this situation, but they have no reason to lie about that (the side effects and health problems), it's not like there is a shortage of iodine tablets.

On NHK they also said that there is a lot of stuff on the internet that is wrong - and I have never heard that before, but they said not to drink mouthwash. That seems to be one of the wrong and even dangerous things that are said on the internet, that there is iodine in it (no idea if that is true), but don't drink it, there are other things in it that are not healthy (and if you have ever tasted mouthwash, I could never drink that, it would probably burn a hole into your stomach :puke: ).

P.S. Of course I'm not an expert or doctor, I just posted what was said on TV, if you are thinking about taking them, please ask a doctor before you do.


Japan apparently denied Russian nuclear experts entry into Japan. It's a team of Tschernobyl veterans. Russian Atomic Energy Agency says they are people who know how do deal with a nuclear emergency. Why they are denied entry is not clear. There are rumors that Japan doesn't want to give them insight into their reactors.

Source: http://derstandard.at (via Spiegel Online)

Hey, if they can still afford the top secret approach, the situation can't be THAT bad? Next question ... what are they trying to hide?
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Thanks, Milka. That's correct. The potassium iodide tablets can cause thyroid damage if not taken in the correct dosage. They are also time-sensitive, i.e. must be taken at the time of exposure or a few hours before if exposure is likely. In other words, should not be taken too early, or too late. The purpose is to flood the thyroid with iodine so it can't uptake radioactive iodine. But the tablets should NOT be taken without medical instructions, because there is some risk.

I've done some research (don't have time to post links here right now, but it's not hard to find) that shows that tincture of iodine might be just as effective, but without the risks of the tablets. That's the old-fashioned "tincture of iodine antiseptic," which is a two percent iodine solution. it's painted on the skin (can find amounts online). It's poison, and is NOT to be ingested. It's a topical application, i.e. applied to the skin (of forearm, or stomach.)

This will not likely be an immediate problem in the U.S., unless there is a Chernobyl-type event with an explosion that puts radiation high into the atmosphere. More likely is a lower-level (in altitude, not amount) radiation emission (which is already happening to some extent in Japan), that spreads the radioactivity across parts of Japan, and into the ocean. In that case, food sources will be affected in Japan (and also seafood). Longer-term problem will be contamination of cattle/milk. I would suggest not buying/eating any food exported from Japan after March 11.

It's extremely likely that the news we are being given is vastly downplayed and not accurate, coming from the Japanese. I do believe that at this time of crisis, TEPCO and the Japanese government owe it to the people of Japan, and of the world, to TELL THE TRUTH, and tell it in a timely way.

On the one hand, they are saying "cesium has been found in the drinking water in Fukushima city," and THEN they say, "this presents no risk to human health." Are you KIDDING ME???? One thing the Japanese government should have done, and apparently did NOT do, is prioritize evacuations from the region and give priority to pregnant women, and then mothers with small children. Growing children are at the most risk for damage from radiation.

I see the emperor has addressed Japan. This is very rare. The last time he gave a public address, I believe was after the Kobe earthquake.

My heart goes out to the Japanese people, and to us all. If the world's nations don't fast-track alternative energies now (and they CAN), then we have learned NOTHING. Nuclear energy is not "green." It's incredibly dangerous, and I think we see that now. Don't we?
 
IAEA press conference in Vienna in about 40 minutes.

(in case there will be a live broadcast on TV)

4:30 pm Vienna time
11:30 am New York Time
8:30 am Los Angeles Time
0:30 am (Thursday) in Japan
 
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