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Preliminary Hearing 5/1/11 Day two. Discussion thread

  • Thread starter elusive moonwalker
  • Start date
I dont know think the paramedics would of been able to tart an Iv anywhere on Michael..as far a I know when people pass away they cannot get veins because they collapse...and from what we are learning...Michael had been gone for sometime.
 
OK, according to Alvarez Murray asked him to hide the the IV bag with the milky substance in a different bag than the one which contained the bottles recovered from the bedroom. He left the IV bag with the clear liquids there . But the toxicology report states The IV bag with clear substance was found with propofol vials in Murray's bag, so Murray changed his mind and removed everything later?

Murray was using that IV bag with milky substance so there was LONG tubing to attach it to the IV catheter in MJ's leg, where are they ? Alvarez got it wrong and it was not actually an IV bag it was a vial, ok where is the LONG tubing with "milky substances" traces?
Murray removed them out of the house but left behind the propofol vials?!!!!!!


Did Alvarez try to be "more helpful" while he was working for the Jacksons and offered that " he asked me to remove IV bag with milky substance" as a "smoking gun evidence" to help convict Murray.

Alvarez testimony is questionable to say the least.

Again Vial or Plastic IV bag ? Did the prosecutor believe it would help their case if they offered a testimony indicating propofol was given via an IV drip as Alvarez suggested?

Either Alvarez is lying or Murray successfully removed the LONG tubing from the house. But left propofol vials there!!!!! whatever
 
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Ramona122003 said:
Just, you still haven't answer my question and I am not asking this to be a smartass.

If Paris was upstairs, why isn't she in the AEG lawsuit along with Prince for the child abuse charge? Why did the family go on and on about Prince being there and Paris is not even mention. Even when Kai back up from her claim, she only said Prince may had went upstairs, nothing about Paris.

Also, the fact that he even humor selling it and is not good. You saw a person die before your eyes, why would you consider selling it, even when it is not so hot anymore. If something like that happened to you, would you honestly consider selling it?

Hist testimony still doesn't explain why drugs and the injection was still on the floor if he was picking up vials and putting it in the bag and why he did that instead of calling for help. Him not telling the police the above detail doesn't help either.

He may have told the truth about everything, but the fact that he raised such questions doesn't make him the best witness and I'm kind of surprise Murray's lawyers didn't call him on why drugs were still all over the room if he supposedly cleaned up.
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Why isn't Paris named in the lawsuit you have to ask Mrs Jackson. No he was not the best witiness but I think and this is just my view he did not say anything because he did help hide evidence.
 
And also, if Michael was supposed to be under for a 'good period of time' that day- he had rehearsal that same day, at like 2 pm, correct?? So for how long was he supposed to be sleeping? 2 hours?
 
Ingelief said:
i dont know but if thats true sophielo than it doesnt explain the catheter
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The fact of the matter is that like has been said, Michael was taking flomax which is for an over active bladder. If Michael was to be put under for a prolonged period of time (which it is assumed he was) this explains why he was cathetered.
 
Yet another confusion.
As I recall...it was said that Michael was AWAKE all night ( that night ) and that he was anxious because he could not fall asleep. Why would he have a catheter than ?!
This only makes sense if he was heavily under and could not move.

I can not believe all this...I will go nuts.
 
"This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I have to do it because he's my friend."


What???????????????????????????? That was 1 many minutes later and 2 you are not talking when you are cpr doing you act not talk...

and 3 what about the oxyballoon found? and 4 if murray give mouth to mouth wrong there would not be going air to the longs.. you need to do a chinlift for the air the flow in the longs
 
xthunderx2 said:
I dont know think the paramedics would of been able to tart an Iv anywhere on Michael..as far a I know when people pass away they cannot get veins because they collapse...and from what we are learning...Michael had been gone for sometime.
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i dont think they did either. i remember something about them using a line that was already there
 
This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I have to do it because he's my friend."
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sounds like a quote from a bad b list movie!
 
BillieJean84 said:
And also, if Michael was supposed to be under for a 'good period of time' that day- he had rehearsal that same day, at like 2 pm, correct?? So for how long was he supposed to be sleeping? 2 hours?
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That's why there are a mixture of meds. It would seem there were other methods tried before propofol that late on? Maybe someone can clarify.
 
Ramona122003 said:
If Paris was upstairs, why isn't she in the AEG lawsuit along with Prince for the child abuse charge? Why did the family go on and on about Prince being there and Paris is not even mention. Even when Kai back up from her claim, she only said Prince may had went upstairs, nothing about Paris.
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I have a theory for that if you read yesterday's updates you'll see Fahem Muhammed saying Prince standing in the doorway frozen and Paris crying outside the door on the floor on her hands and knees. Prince might be the only one that witnessed the events (looked to MJ and CPR efforts) for a some period of time while Paris wasn't really looking.
 
zpredra5 said:
Yet another confusion.
As I recall...it was said that Michael was AWAKE all night ( that night ) and that he was anxious because he could not fall asleep. Why would he have a catheter than ?!
This only makes sense if he was heavily under and could not move.

I can not believe all this...I will go nuts.
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Good point...
 
"This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I have to do it because he's my friend."
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this is such a horrible thing to say. shouldn't a doctor heal ANY person, be they a friend or an enemy? smh
 
BillieJean84 said:
And also, if Michael was supposed to be under for a 'good period of time' that day- he had rehearsal that same day, at like 2 pm, correct?? So for how long was he supposed to be sleeping? 2 hours?
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he had been trying to sleep since earler that mroning... i honestly feel that if he wasnt sleep by 10am they should have just been like "eff it" and went about their day
 
zpredra5 said:
Yet another confusion.
As I recall...it was said that Michael was AWAKE all night ( that night ) and that he was anxious because he could not fall asleep. Why would he have a catheter than ?!
This only makes sense if he was heavily under and could not move.

I can not believe all this...I will go nuts.
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You are going by Murray's account of that night. The DA said nothing about Michael being unable to sleep. They haven't really detail what happened that night yet.

So, we will have to wait and see.
 
ScrEAm.Jack5on said:
Pardon?!

You're suggesting I believe the peeing in front of people thing? Um NO. Whatever gave you that idea? Read my post again.
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Oh, I thought you said you had believed TMZ and now you find it's not true.. Sorry. We all know Michael would have been terrified peeing even in front of an animal.
 
My sister explained to me why a catheter was used when the autopsy report was released. I can't remember much more than what I said already.

She did not answer her phone. If I get more info, I will post it.

Maybe those in the medical field here can help make it clearer.
 
ivy said:
I have a theory for that if you read yesterday's updates you'll see Fahem Muhammed saying Prince standing in the doorway frozen and Paris crying outside the door on the floor on her hands and knees. Prince might be the only one that witnessed the events (looked to MJ and CPR efforts) for a some period of time while Paris wasn't really looking.
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Yes, I understood it that way too.
 
StaceyMJ said:
That's why there are a mixture of meds. It would seem there were other methods tried before propofol that late on? Maybe someone can clarify.
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well according to muarry, he wanted to try a mix that he had been using the two prior days without propofol that had been doing the job. i guess the mix wasnt working and then muarry administered the propofol
 
I don't understand, why security guard listened Murray and began grabbing medicine bottles, bags from an IV, while your boss is lifeless on a bed... I wouldn't touch there anything..
 
Justice4MJ member in the court update:

Alberto is the only one who testified - only other adult 1st present when Michael was upstairs.

His penis exposed WAS hooked to catheter. The girl in court Erin broke down telling us this but when Alberto saw Michael, he was rigid, his pants were down, his penis was through his undershorts and hooked to a catheter, he had an IV to back of his leg, and he knew he was dead at that point... As they moved Michael to floor, Murray got Alberto to do compressions while he gave mouth to mouth. Murray said "I've never done this before but he is my friend and I have to." Katherine was in floods of tears, so was Rebbie and Janet was in total shock she was pale and didn't move at all.

Michael was moved by Murray and bodyguard to the floor while the 911 was being placed.

The pulse-finger monitor was put on during 911 call long after Michael's initial cardiac arrest.

When Alberto came up to the room, after being summoned to the house, Murray was outside the room hanging over the railing of the stairs, the children were with the chef and nanny and Mohammed was downstairs. Michael was in the bed with the IV still attached with NO ONE ELSE IN THE ROOM. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY ABOVE INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.

I never thought the neglect was this bad. :cry:
 
ivy said:
I have a theory for that if you read yesterday's updates you'll see Fahem Muhammed saying Prince standing in the doorway frozen and Paris crying outside the door on the floor on her hands and knees. Prince might be the only one that witnessed the events (looked to MJ and CPR efforts) for a some period of time while Paris wasn't really looking.
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To be honest, I don't think the Jacksons would be that particular given some of the stuff they put in that suit.

For example, Prince being upstairs can be explain away be saying he was there because he let the bodyguards upstairs, which is why Murray called them. Also going by the bodyguards, Murray told them to take the kids out and not let the kids see Michael this way. So, he didn't keep Prince as a side item if that story was true.

But, this is kind of off topic so I will leave it there.
 
Ramona122003 said:
He may have told the truth about everything, but the fact that he raised such questions doesn't make him the best witness and I'm kind of surprise Murray's lawyers didn't call him on why drugs were still all over the room if he supposedly cleaned up.
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Maybe he trusted the doctor and didn't realize he was being involved in a cover up. Perhaps he didn't think of it as "cleaning up", maybe he was just instructed to "put these vials in this bag", which could be for any number of reasons...that they would need them in the ambulence, that the UCLA drs would need to see what he took,...who knows. Maybe at the time what was happening didn't seem as sinister as it does now - knowing everything we know now. I so wish we had the transcripts. Things can be interpreted so so so many ways. :(

ivy said:
"This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I have to do it because he's my friend."
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Sooo...if he wasn't your "friend" and was just your patient...or even a random guy who was dying....as a doctor, you'd just make the executive decision to omit the rescue breaths from your CPR routine?... Unbelievable.
 
when did Rebbie, Janet & Katharine arrive? All at once that day? Janet was doing her movie...
 
Topflux said:
Oh, I thought you said you had believed TMZ and now you find it's not true.. Sorry. We all know Michael would have been terrified peeing even in front of an animal.
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Nahhh, I always thought TMZ were talking crap.

It's alright Topflux :) don't worry about it.
 
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