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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

this is so heart breaking,we all know where defense is going with their questioning but autopsy is so clear about so many things .hope judge will increase the charges.
 
summer said:
So.....to go back to what Murray said. He said he gave MJ Propofol...watched him for 10 minutes...then left the room for less than two minutes to go to the bathroom...then came back and found he was not breathing. So.....2 minutes bathroom....minutes 10 minutes...makes it 11:50 a.m.....Uhm.....so Murray is really trying to say that while he was in the room...ON THE PHONE...MJ woke up...and he was having a conversation with MJ about Propofol...WHILE he was also on the phone with someone? Then gave MJ Propofol WHILE ON THE PHONE....then continued talking on the phone while "watching and monitoring MJ"....then went to the bathroom WHILE ONE THE PHONE....and came back WHILE ON THE PHONE and saw he was not breathing? And instead of USING those TWO PHONES he had on him to CALL 911 and instead of doing CPR ....he ran downstairs to look for a 12 year old and the security....while MJ WAS NOT BREATHING?????!!!!!!!!! Oh he is SO DOOMED!!!!

It is clear from the records he is lying.
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you are totally right on your account. He is lying big HUGE time here. I just wonder what they will say to try to deny all this massive evidence against him. Really, I see no way for him to be considered "not guilty". Is he crazy or what?? Saying he is "not guilty" is just as sickeing as his saying he loves Katherine as much as his mother.

Really!!!! Disturbing!! :puke:
 
@ Ingelief We have to remember we don't have a timeline from the defense yet. The timeline we do have, Murray's defense team says was from the police and was not accurate. So we don't know at what time Murray will say he gave MJ propofol yet.
 
thanks to bowen

MJJC Twitter:

Michelle Cooper UCLA doctor was in charge of taking care of Michael when he arrived

When Michael arrived no pulse no responce

Doctor ask murray what happened, he said he gave to Loz in morning

Breaking News - Murray says to doctor he WITNESSED Michaels cardiac arrest

Doctor at no point felt a pulse

There was confusion in room that some thought they felt a pulse (@ 1.22pm)

No signs of life and time of prenouncement of death was registered as 2.26.

I'm listening to the stream now...
Murray told Cooper that he saw MJ stop breathing
 
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UCLA Docs -- Michael Was DOA

Two doctors from the UCLA Medical Center testified ... Michael Jackson was dead on arrival, yet Dr. Murray told them "not to give up easily and try to save the patient."

Dr. Richelle Cooper testified when Jackson arrived at UCLA there was "no signs of life."

Dr. Cooper added Murray was not forthcoming about the drugs administered to MJ. Cooper says Murray copped to giving Michael lorezapam, but made no mention of Propofol.

And this was interesting. Cooper says MJ weighed 136 lbs.

Dr. Thao Nguyen testified Dr. Murray denied giving MIchael any sedatives or narcotcs.
 
oh ok thx ginvid didnt know that my bad..

hope it will come soon... im dying! to know what is going to tell really..

maybe we all need to be together then.. it may be soooo stupid and far from the true that is laugable..
 
Ok. Thanks, ginvid.

When it comes to anything that Murray has said, I wait for CONCRETE proof (scientific or otherwise).
 
Ingelief said:
but if summer is right *you are* i mean that means that he could not have give mj propofol when he said he did?

when is a time when he was not on a phone then he could give mj propofol and get back to calling again..

that means at least 1 hour dead???
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The phone calls could suggest that, I guess.
 
I'm no doctor, so this is guessing, but how would the other drugs Murray gave MJ affect his temperature and circulation etc?

They're basing the 20-60 minutes on the fact that MJ's feet and hands looked blue, but would any of the drugs have any effect on circulation? What I mean is: if a regular person dies, his feet and hands turn blue and this is an indication of the time of death, but can any of the drugs skew the timeline? So maybe MJ could've been gone even sooner than we assume now?

Maybe MJ had died almost immediately and Murray only noticed after returning from his many many phonecalls....
 
love is magical said:
I truly hope justice will be served this time. Not only justice for Michael, but for welfare of the general public. There is something seriously wrong in the medical profession and health-care system in the US. We have doctors who forget the oath that they took when they entered into this noble profession practicing thesedays.
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the bad news about your comments, friend? Unfortunately, this problem is no only in the USA. It's everywhere we look at. I hate saying this, but some doctors just don't give a damn about life. I just suffered that with one of them 8 days ago. And horror!!! I have to go to the doctor tomorrow morning :no:
 
ivy said:
Dr. Thao Nguyen testified Dr. Murray denied giving MIchael any sedatives or narcotcs.
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Murray must be the most stupid doctor ever. Didn't he know - as a doctor! - that they would find everything in the autopsy?
 
if he said he witnessed mj going into CA that pretty much means mj couldnt have self injected imo as it would have happened straight away

ontop of all the other timings
 
Why was Conrad Murray phoning people in Texas early June 25th?

We already know he had women take boxes of his stuff away from storage in Texas that morning. When asked by TMZ what was in the boxes, the 2 women said something like "furniture", but their stories did not match.

Is it possible Michael died in the morning and Murray spent hours getting rid of anything shady he had?
 
Dr. Murray. Identifes him for the record. Asked him what happened. Dr. reported that the patient a ? state of health not ill, had been having trouble sleeping. That he was dehydrated and hand not been sleeping. He reporte that he had given the patient 2 mg of borazapam (sp?) and then later another dose. Did not mention that he had given the patient any other drugs. Murray stated he witnessed the arrest.

The patient had no sign of life. The pupils were fixed and dialated. The patient was dead on arrival to UCLA. Despite that conditon, they attempted to revive the patient. No pulse; no other signs of trauma. Proceeded to adminster other drugs. Patient is still being ventelated and CPR is continuing and cardiac monitors on the patient.

Time spent on the patient, 1 hour, 26 minutes.


And lots of updates here:
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/
 
mthalen said:
Maybe MJ had died almost immediately and Murray only noticed after returning from his many many phonecalls....
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As hard as it is to talk about that, I guess that's possible.

Ok, I think I need to get away from this now and need to take a break, see you all later.

P.S.
mthalen said:
He reporte that he had given the patient 2 mg of borazapam (sp?)
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I guess that would be Lorazepam.
 
dr cooper said it was hard to get info from murray
murray said mj was in usual health but tired and dehydrated
murray said he gave mj lorazepam in the morning
dr cooper said that the amount of lorazepam given was not enough for a man of mjs size.
murray said he witnessed mj's arrest
murray said mj on flomax, valium prescriptions
murray did not mention propofol
no signs of life on arrival.

on cross- exam -
someone felt a pulse at 1.22, more cpr was given, dr cooper never felt the pulse herself

there's more but hard to keep up & take notes
 
Didn't Murray give MJ something that is NOT supposed to be given along with Propofol?

Also, if he witnessed MJ going into cardiac arrest, then it is even worse that he did NOT immediately call 911, because if he HAD called right then and THERE, there is a chance that MJ would still be ALIVE!!

WTH?!!
 
Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes.They are also making updates from the court. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a update I'll go through and make a summary here. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulationwebsite.


Dr. Cooper

- Dr. Cooper gave the paramedics permission to pronounce MJ dead at 12:57. Dr. Cooper told for the transport Murray had to take over the control and be with the patient.

- When they come to the hospital Murray tells MJ had trouble sleeping and dehydrated, gave him lorezapeam, witnessed the cardiac arrest.

- Dr. Cooper asks if there were any chest pain before cardiac arrest, Murray says no.

- Murray mentions Flomax and Valium.

- Dr. Cooper says MJ was DOA still tried to revive him, they worked on MJ for 1 hour 26 minutes.

- Dr. Cooper also asked Murray about recreational drug use.

- Dr. Cooper gets asked a lot of questions about propofol and it's usage. Cooper says "Protocol requires certain monitoring to administer propofol. There needs to be equipment available to monitor the airway. There must be heart monitoring. There has to be a staff person available as their only job to monitor the euqipment/patient. So that the patient doesn’t die"

- Cross examination Dr. Cooper is asked if she knew Murray given MJ propofol it would have made any difference in her treatment. She says no, she was treating cardiac arrest.

Dr. Thao Nguyen

- She is a cardiologist and is called to the ER by Dr. Cooper.

- She says Murray never mentioned Propofol or benzodiazapine medications.

- Murray also tells her that MJ was getting ready for a tour, had trouble sleeping and he gave him 4 miligrams of adavan (mirazapam) via IV.

- Murray tells he doesn't have a watch and he doesn't know how long MJ was down. Murray couldn't give an estimate about when the drug was injected and how long MJ was down.

- She does balloon pump. An agreement was made with Dr. Murray that if the balloon pump failed, then they would call the time of death.
 
PCR said:
It's simply hard to believe all this happened to Michael. I was talking to my family and they were just as shocked as all of us. And they can't understand how this man is still free, why this has taken so long, and why he still holds a medical licence. :(
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The timing seems standard. Remember, everything started happening with MJ in 2003 and he didn't actually go to trial until 2005.
 
mthalen said:
I'm no doctor, so this is guessing, but how would the other drugs Murray gave MJ affect his temperature and circulation etc?

They're basing the 20-60 minutes on the fact that MJ's feet and hands looked blue, but would any of the drugs have any effect on circulation? What I mean is: if a regular person dies, his feet and hands turn blue and this is an indication of the time of death, but can any of the drugs skew the timeline? So maybe MJ could've been gone even sooner than we assume now?

Maybe MJ had died almost immediately and Murray only noticed after returning from his many many phonecalls....
Click to expand...

I remember that even the administration of one benzo per IV alone carried the explicit warning of possible respiratory depression and a sudden drop in blood pressure as a possible side effect.

And cause of death was acute Propofol intoxication with Benzodiazepine effect.

So yes, other drugs could play into that.
 
I am so angry right now. I hope the general public is seeing how badly Michael was treated. This is horrible the constant lying and he wouldn't tell people what he gave him.
 
This is just sick.

She pronounced the patient originally at 12:57 pm.
There was a report by Dr. Murray that he had detected a pulse which was in conflict so she made the decision to attempt.
There was one other person who said that they detected a pulse? “I can not confirm.”


So because Murray said he felt a pulse they continued to work on MJ for another hour and 26 minutes....
 
ivy;3178603 said:
Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes.They are also making updates from the court. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a update I'll go through and make a summary here. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulationwebsite.


Dr. Cooper

- Dr. Cooper gave the paramedics permission to pronounce MJ dead at 12:57. Dr. Cooper told for the transport Murray had to take over the control and be with the patient.

- When they come to the hospital Murray tells MJ had trouble sleeping and dehydrated, gave him lorezapeam, witnessed the cardiac arrest.

- Dr. Cooper asks if there were any chest pain before cardiac arrest, Murray says no.

- Murray mentions Flomax and Valium.

- Dr. Cooper says MJ was DOA still tried to revive him, they worked on MJ for 1 hour 26 minutes.

- Dr. Cooper also asked Murray about recreational drug use.

- Dr. Cooper gets asked a lot of questions about propofol and it's usage. Cooper says "Protocol requires certain monitoring to administer propofol. There needs to be equipment available to monitor the airway. There must be heart monitoring. There has to be a staff person available as their only job to monitor the euqipment/patient. So that the patient doesn’t die"

- Cross examination Dr. Cooper is asked if she knew Murray given MJ propofol it would have made any difference in her treatment. She says no, she was treating cardiac arrest.

Dr. Thao Nguyen

- She is a cardiologist and is called to the ER by Dr. Cooper.

- She says Murray never mentioned Propofol or benzodiazapine medications.

- Murray also tells her that MJ was getting ready for a tour, had trouble sleeping and he gave him 4 miligrams of adavan (mirazapam) via IV.

- Murray tells he doesn't have a watch and he doesn't know how long MJ was down. Murray couldn't give an estimate about when the drug was injected and how long MJ was down.

- She does balloon pump. An agreement was made with Dr. Murray that if the balloon pump failed, then they would call the time of death.
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He did not have a watch but he had two cell phones and they have clocks on them. Lying ass
 
WOW! Murray said he saw MJ go into Cardiac arrest at the hospital to the doctor Cooper and he didn't know how long MJ been down cause he didn't have a watch!.........O_O He also didn't tell her he gave Propofol so she was treating MJ only for the cardiac arrest cause that was the only thing Murray said was wrong with MJ! Unfreakinbelievable!
 
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