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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

I began to serioulsy doubt the girlfriend's story about hearing stuff over the phone and Murray suddenly dropping the phone in the middle of their conversation. The defence made up that story, Murray probably left MJ and did not know when he died and wanted a witness to say when he realised he hurried up to do CPR.


why I believe that? Because I can't believe a human being can be INHUMANE enough to text while a man was there dying infront of him .
 
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It's simply hard to believe all this happened to Michael. I was talking to my family and they were just as shocked as all of us. And they can't understand how this man is still free, why this has taken so long, and why he still holds a medical licence. My family are not haters, but they are certainly not that into MJ as I am. Their hearts are broken by the details!!!

I say this meaning ANY single person can see this guy did PRECICELY what he was NOT supposse to do to protect Michael. EVERY SINGLE THING.

Horrible. And still, so hard to believe. Is this really happening or is this all the sickest nightmare ever??

Man... no. this is reality :(
 
GinnyJackson said:
i havent made a personal attack... not yet. Keep pushing and i might. and just fyi all drug addicts are not alike. my mother isnt a drug adict and they cant find a vain to put in an iv when she needs one. Some peoples vains are small some arent. i just believe you are here to bait people just my opinion. And this is all very much on topic.
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Please learn to read. I didn't say MJ was an addict, and I didn't imply it. All I said was: I don't think the EMT said there was no sign of drug abuse as an answer to a question about vains in drug user.
Your mother has nothing to do with it. Not all drug users have small veins, not all people with small veins are drug users, but probably veins will be harder to find in drug users. Does this make MJ a drug user? Nope, once again: that's not what I said, it's what the defense is implying by the questions they ask.


Does anyone know if there are or will be transcripts made available from these sessions as there were back in '95?
 
If he still keeps his license at the end of all this then there is simply no justice in this world. There's absolutly no way he can keep it after all this.
 
JMie said:
andjustice4some andjustice4some
CNN REPORTER INSIDE COURTROOM REPORTS THAT EVEN THE JOURNALISTS ARE HORRIFIED BY TESTIMONY, MOST AGREE THAT JUDGE WILL (CONT.)
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Just think of that!!!
Every one can see he killed Michael!!! :doh:
 
PCR said:
It's simply hard to believe all this happened to Michael. I was talking to my family and they were just as shocked as all of us. And they can't understand how this man is still free, why this has taken so long, and why he still holds a medical licence. My family are not haters, but they are certainly not that into MJ as I am. Their hearts are broken by the details!!!

I say this meaning ANY single person can see this guy did PRECICELY what he was NOT supposse to do to protect Michael. EVERY SINGLE THING.

Horrible. And still, so hard to believe. Is this really happening or is this all the sickest nightmare ever??

Man... no. this is reality :(
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:hug: to you and
:huggy: to all of us here today.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
they were talking about the person on the other end. murray dropped the phone and the person could hear noises of what was going on
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I agree, that was probably what they meant: that they heard Murray running wild, not that they heard MJ literally "die".
I've seen this vid on youtube and find it hard to believe you will be able to make any noise at all when under propofol.
 
Sophielo said:
If he still keeps his license at the end of all this then there is simply no justice in this world. There's absolutly no way he can keep it after all this.
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Indeed.

Maybe some kind of good thing will come from this. Like mandatory CPR courses for doctors every 2 years or something.
 
ginvid said:
:hug: to you and
:huggy: to all of us here today.
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awww, hugs to to you too :hug:, dear friend, and to all our fellow fans here.
Just when one dares to thingk things can't get any worst, they do get worst.

Let's hope we will stand this test together. This is but the beginning!!
 
ivy;3178244 said:
Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes.They are also making updates from the court. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a update I'll go through and make a summary here. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulationwebsite.

HARRY DALIWAL

- AT&T employee for 15 years.(AT&T is the carrier for iPhone). 72 pages of cell records, phone, text, email and Internet records.

- relevant data activity
12:03 pm text
12:04 text message to or from TX
12. 13 pm data
12:18 pm data
12:53 pm text mesage California
1:23 pm text message Nevada

- list of phone calls
10:29 am call from ? to Murray’s phone 22 minutes
11:07 am from 3233 to Murray’s phone 1 minute
11 18 am call from 0973 placed 6802 and that call logged at 32 minutes.
missed listing one call
11:49 am call placed from Murray to 4989 3 minutes.
11:51 am a call placed from Murry to 3832 11 minutes.
12:12 pm from Murray phone to 2570 lasted 1 minute
12:15 pm from 2570 to conrad Murray 1 minute

- Chernoff asks if it's possible to retrieve text messages and voice messages. Expert says yes but he's not an expert and not familiar with the process.

JEFF STROHM

- Works for Sprint Nextel.

- Phone calls
8:49 am from 5217 to Murray 53 seconds
10:22 am from 0124 to Murray 111 seconds
10:34 am from Murray to 3233 8 and a half minutes
11:26 am from 9566 to Murray seven seconds
1:08 pm from Murray to 070 2 minutes


all phone numbers are shortened to 4 digits for privacy
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I took a piece of paper and put the calls together to establish some kind of timeline and I think the phone records will nail Murray.

Murray was on the phone:

10:22-10:23-24 am

Then he was off the phone from 10:23-24 am until 10:28 am

10:29-10:51 on the phone...(And this is where it gets interesting....he HIMSELF made both calls from the two different phones!! So WHO was he calling and WHY?! He was on TWO phones from 10:34-10:42-43 am!!! )

Again off the phone from 10:51-11:06 am

One quick call between 11:07 t0 11:08 am

Again off the phone from 11:08 until 11:17 am

And from 11:18 am he was pretty much on the phone until he came running down the stairs like Kai Chase said.

11:18-11:50
(11:26 a quick call with 2nd phone)
11:49-11:52
11:51-12:02

Then 10 minutes off the phone....but we all know he was running down the stairs to get Prince and security then. That means there was a 10 minute delay already.

So.....to go back to what Murray said. He said he gave MJ Propofol...watched him for 10 minutes...then left the room for less than two minutes to go to the bathroom...then came back and found he was not breathing. So.....2 minutes bathroom....minutes 10 minutes...makes it 11:50 a.m.....Uhm.....so Murray is really trying to say that while he was in the room...ON THE PHONE...MJ woke up...and he was having a conversation with MJ about Propofol...WHILE he was also on the phone with someone? Then gave MJ Propofol WHILE ON THE PHONE....then continued talking on the phone while "watching and monitoring MJ"....then went to the bathroom WHILE ONE THE PHONE....and came back WHILE ON THE PHONE and saw he was not breathing? And instead of USING those TWO PHONES he had on him to CALL 911 and instead of doing CPR ....he ran downstairs to look for a 12 year old and the security....while MJ WAS NOT BREATHING?????!!!!!!!!! Oh he is SO DOOMED!!!!

It is clear from the records he is lying. And if he is trying to say he really was on the cell phone at the same time he was discussing giving Propofol to MJ and while injecting Propofol....THAT will not help him. If you go by what he said, he most likely gave MJ Propofol somewhere between 10:51 and 11:17 am....then maybe watched him for 10 minutes....and left the room until 12:02am...and MJ had been dead for a half an hour by then. That would also go with what the EMTs said they saw...that MJ had been dead for 20 minutes to an hour.

This is just absolutely unbelievable....But on the other hand I am glad because the more we hear, the more doomed Murray is. Not only did he NOT have the required equipment..not only did he leave MJ alone...but he also had not one, but TWO cell phones he was actively using....DISTRACTING him from what he was supposed to be doing....which was to MONITOR MJ and make sure he is OKAY!!! :no:
 
TheChosenOne said:
If there is one thing I am not is a conspiracy theorist. And up to today I did consider the 'OMG what have I done, let me cover my ass' possibility. And certainly there is evidence to show quite clearly that Murray was committed to covering his ass.

But after today, I don't know there is something malevolent about Murray's actions to me ... I am still sorting things out in my mind.
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"Murder most foul, as in the best it is;
But this most foul, strange and unnatural."
--Hamlet Act 1, Scene 5 by William Shakespeare

 
The prosecution will have a field day once it goes to trial and they get to the "911 call" part...

"So, mister Murray, is it true that despite having two cellphones which you used extensively throughout the morning, you didnt call 911 because you couldn't find a landline?"
 
summer said:
So.....to go back to what Murray said. He said he gave MJ Propofol...watched him for 10 minutes...then left the room for less than two minutes to go to the bathroom...then came back and found he was not breathing. So.....2 minutes bathroom....minutes 10 minutes...makes it 11:50 a.m.....Uhm.....so Murray is really trying to say that while he was in the room...ON THE PHONE...MJ woke up...and he was having a conversation with MJ about Propofol...WHILE he was also on the phone with someone? Then gave MJ Propofol WHILE ON THE PHONE....then continued talking on the phone while "watching and monitoring MJ"....then went to the bathroom WHILE ONE THE PHONE....and came back WHILE ON THE PHONE and saw he was not breathing? And instead of USING those TWO PHONES he had on him to CALL 911 and instead of doing CPR ....he ran downstairs to look for a 12 year old and the security....while MJ WAS NOT BREATHING?????!!!!!!!!! Oh he is SO DOOMED!!!!

It is clear from the records he is lying. And if he is trying to say he really was on the cell phone at the same time he was discussing giving Propofol to MJ and while injecting Propofol....THAT will not help him. If you go by what he said, he most likely gave MJ Propofol somewhere between 10:51 and 11:17 am....then maybe watched him for 10 minutes....and left the room until 12:02am...and MJ had been dead for a half an hour by then. That would also go with what the EMTs said they saw...that MJ had been dead for 20 minutes to an hour.
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what murray did is so wrong so so many levels
 
Soundmind said:
I began to serioulsy doubt the girlfriend's story about hearing stuff over the phone and Murray suddenly dropping the phone in the middle of their conversation. The defence made up that story, Murray probably left MJ and did not know when he died and wanted a witness to say when he realised he hurried up to do CPR.


why I believe that? Because I can't believe a human being can be INHUMANE enough to text while a man was there dying infront of him .
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yes, since yesterday I've been thinking that Murray arrived too late. MJ was probably gone, he knew that there was nothing he could do.

About the texts, I checked on trial and tribulations, apparantly they can't tell if they were sent or recieved from the report they had.

I really don't know what to think now. it's just horrible.

As someone else said, he had plenty of time to clean up, so what , panic ??? Things don't add up. How can you make so many stupid things ?? It looks like he really did EVERYTHING wrong.
 
JMie said:
from twitter:

ndjustice4some andjustice4some
SUSPEND MURRAY'S LICENSE AT THE END OF PRELIM.
1 minute ago

andjustice4some andjustice4some
CNN REPORTER INSIDE COURTROOM REPORTS THAT EVEN THE JOURNALISTS ARE HORRIFIED BY TESTIMONY, MOST AGREE THAT JUDGE WILL (CONT.)
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...my feed said:

MJJCommunity MJJCommunity
RULE IN FAVOUR OF TRIAL


MJJCommunity MJJCommunity
CNN REPORTER INSIDE COURTROOM REPORTS THAT EVEN THE JOURNALISTS ARE HORRIFIED BY TESTIMONY, MOST AGREE THAT JUDGE WILL (CONT.)
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?
 
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Unfortunately he is not doomed because a 4 years sentence is nothing! All I want to happen to him is lay him on a bed and do to him EXACTLY what he did to Michael!
 
summer said:
. . .It is clear from the records he is lying. And if he is trying to say he really was on the cell phone at the same time he was discussing giving Propofol to MJ and while injecting Propofol....THAT will not help him. If you go by what he said, he most likely gave MJ Propofol somewhere between 10:51 and 11:17 am....then maybe watched him for 10 minutes....and left the room until 12:02am...and MJ had been dead for a half an hour by then. That would also go with what the EMTs said they saw...that MJ had been dead for 20 minutes to an hour.

This is just absolutely unbelievable....But on the other hand I am glad because the more we hear, the more doomed Murray is. Not only did he NOT have the required equipment..not only did he leave MJ alone...but he also had not one, but TWO cell phones he was actively using....DISTRACTING him from what he was supposed to be doing....which was to MONITOR MJ and make sure he is OKAY!!! :no:
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Question: Didn't Murray say that Michael requested the propofol or something of the sort as if they had an exchange about Michael not sleeping? If so, then when would this have happened with all the phone calls?
 
mthalen said:
Indeed.

Maybe some kind of good thing will come from this. Like mandatory CPR courses for doctors every 2 years or something.
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I read some comments left by people who are in the medical profession on cnn.com. They said many doctors don't know how to perform CPR properly because CPR are usually performed by doctor's assitants or nurses. Many doctors don't even bother to learn or refresh their skills as they look down on this life-saving procedure.

I truly hope justice will be served this time. Not only justice for Michael, but for welfare of the general public. There is something seriously wrong in the medical profession and health-care system in the US. We have doctors who forget the oath that they took when they entered into this noble profession practicing thesedays.

I'm horrified by the behaviors exhibited by Murray during that crucial moment. Words cannot decribe how heartbreaking I feel.

It's very difficult to follow this prelim hearing. I dreamed of Paris last night. The scene of her screaming and crying was in my mind.

This trial is going to be very difficult for Katherine and the children.
 
Soundmind said:
I began to serioulsy doubt the girlfriend's story about hearing stuff over the phone and Murray suddenly dropping the phone in the middle of their conversation. The defence made up that story, Murray probably left MJ and did not know when he died and wanted a witness to say when he realised he hurried up to do CPR.


why I believe that? Because I can't believe a human being can be INHUMANE enough to text while a man was there dying infront of him .
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good point
 
mthalen said:
The prosecution will have a field day once it goes to trial and they get to the "911 call" part...

"So, mister Murray, is it true that despite having two cellphones which you used extensively throughout the morning, you didnt call 911 because you couldn't find a landline?"
Click to expand...

Sadly, he probably won't testify. Isn't that what they are always trying to do? Not have the defendant testify, unless his attorneys have to because the defandant insists on it?
 
I can't believe what I'm reading, I mean we all speculated on it, but the evidence is showing this man just had a complete disregard for life. Whether he was doing it to save his own ass or not, his actions are completely unacceptable.

Poor Michael. :no:
 
About the blue feet and hands. This is from a Dutch site about dying, translated:
Before dying, hands and feet can turn cold en show blue spots. Also the lips and nails will turn blue. The body tries to bring blood to all vital organs, but the bloodcirculation turns weaker and the pressure in cappilaries falls....
 
athina_livadi said:
Unfortunately he is not doomed because a 4 years sentence is nothing! All I want to happen to him is lay him on a bed and do to him EXACTLY what he did to Michael!
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Yep, but please, let's do it after he has served 4 years :D
 
but if summer is right *you are* i mean that means that he could not have give mj propofol when he said he did?

when is a time when he was not on a phone then he could give mj propofol and get back to calling again..

that means at least 1 hour dead???
 
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