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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

bowen9999 said:
Randy Philips
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I assume MJ knew that, so this whole Murray timeline doesnt make much sense at all: why use propofol to get some sleep when you know Randy (edit: I think they said Travis, as someone mentioned) will be at the door in a few minutes?

And: if you get home after midnight, why would you wait until noon to try to sleep... It just doesn't make sense....

I get a feeling it could all be even worse than expected before (time of MJ actually dying until Murray notices).
 
mthalen said:
I assume MJ knew that, so this whole Murray timeline doesnt make much sense at all: why use propofol to get some sleep when you know Randy will be at the door in a few minutes?

And: if you get home after midnight, why would you wait until noon to try to sleep... It just doesn't make sense....

I get a feeling it could all be even worse than expected before (time of MJ actually dying until Murray notices).
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My thoughts too. No single sense at all :mello:
 
TheChosenOne said:
From what I understand summer - Murray said he felt a pulse while he and the EMTs were dealing with Michael at the house.

Someone (not sure who) felt there was a pulse when he was in the hospital.
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I expect Murray to say that..he wanted to say his ass..he didn't want people to think that he killed Michael...however...I wonder who said they felt a pulse at the hospital?
 
The defence is sticking with their original timeline, 25mg INFUSED starting at 10:40 am that day . Of course the doctor would answer NO when questioned whether it would have caused cardiac arrest after an hour. the defence's lawyer must have looked at the judge "see I told you he did not do it" "sigh"
 
They dont know who felt a pulse. There was a scribbled note from a nurse in the hospital about a pulse... But Murray was in the room as well (gloves on, hands on), so he might've scribbled it himsel, who knows...
 
summer said:
My point exactly. If we go by what he supposedly said (watched 10 minutes, then went to the bathroom for less than 2 minutes)...you get to 11:50 a.m....but the phone records show he was on the phone the whole time from 11:18 am on. So it woudl have been something like this:

Murray: *on the phone* Yeah...yeah....blah blah blah...oh yeah...hahahaha....yeah....blah blah blah....yeah....

MJ: *wakes up* Dr. Murray....

Murray: *still on the phone* Oh...hold on...my patient is awake....*to MJ* Yes, Michael?

MJ: I can't sleep....give me Propofol

Murray: *holding the cell phone while talking to MJ* Uhm....no...are you sure...you shouldn't....

MJ: I can't sleep...really...give it to me...I want it....I won't discuss it...give it to me....

Murray: Well, okay then....*gets syringe and vial....injects Propofol....*

Murray: Okay....back...sorry...had to give my patient something to get him to sleep again....Yeah, so as I was saying...blah blah...blah blah.....

*10 minutes goes by*

Murray: *still on the phone* Man, I gotta pee really bad.....So anyways...what were you saying...*goes to the bathroom and pees while on the phone* :puke:
*enters the room....sees MJ is not breathing* OH F**!!!!!!! I gotta go!!!!

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

And if it was NOT like that....then WHEN did he give Michael Propofol? And WHEN did he leave MJ alone? And let's not forget he insists MJ had injected himself....while he was gone for 2 minutes. So the 2 minutes he was gone would HAVE to have been right before 12:05 am.




Yup. That's what I meant. And that would go with what the EMTs said too about when they thought MJ died.



Yeah, there is NO WAY he will get a "not guilty" verdic. They said on CNN that this will definately go into trial if there is no plea bargain. I hope there isn't a plea bargain. I want Murray to get the whole 4 years. Even though if he was smart (which he obviously isn't, just like Chernoff neither), he'd be asking for a plea bargain right about now. All the witnesses so far have said VERY serious and bad things about him. The caseis pretty much already closed just by what the few witnesses has said now. And let's not forget there are about over 20 still to come!!! :clapping:



Doesn't really matter because with the phone records he is already pretty much doomed one way or the other.....If he says he gave it just shortly before noon...he is doomed because he will pretty much admit to being on the phone the whole time while discussing a SERIOUS decision about a SERIOUS drug with a client...and also he will admit to injecting a client with a very dangerous drug while ON THE PHONE....And if he will say he injected it earlier....it will be very difficult to believe he was monitoring MJ properly if he was on the phone the whole time and that MJ would get in such a state while he was watching him the whole time. AND....that MJ would ALL OF THE SUDDEN wake up and be alert enough to get up to get a syringe and a vial and get the drug out of the vial and inject himself...all tasks that require coordination.




I bet it was MURRAY again who insisted he felt a pulse. I mean, he HAS to say that to make it look like MJ had not been dead for ages....

Murray saw MJ stop breathing? Really? Interesting. And instead of giving mouth to mouth...instead of calling 911...he LEAVES Michael for at least 10 minutes???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!!!! And this is a CARDIOLOGIST we are talking about!!!!!






But didn't Murray insist he felt a pulse? So which one is it? Was MJ in cardiac arrest or did he have a pulse? Did he witness MJ stop breathing, or did he find MJ who was already not breathing? That's the problem when one is lying....you can't keep your story straight. -_-



SOMEONE felt a pulse....I bet my bottom dollar that "someoe" was Murray....:doh:



THese doctors are doing a good job. Loved Dr. Coopers "So that the patient doesn't die" comment! :clapping: Bet she was looking straight at MURRAY when she said it!

And Murray didn't have a watch...didn't know WHEN he gave the drug??? Reckless behavior alert!!! You are SUPPOSED to document when you give it or at least KNOW and LOOK AT A CLOCK ad notice the time!!! DUMBASS!!!
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Go, summer, go! :D
 
Vici said:
Ive heard it was Travis Payne.

So this should also be brought up in the trial.. why would MJ ask for propofol and being put under at that time of the day if Travis was on his way? He also didnt had breakfast and did not get his juice as he usually did.
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MJ probably had already died that morning and not near noon time.
 
Nguydn is kinda funny on cross examination :D

Did you have an impression of his [Murray's] emotional state?
“do you want my opinon of his emotional state? He appeard devistated.

What do you mean?
You want the definition of devastation?
 
Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes.They are also making updates from the court. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a update I'll go through and make a summary here. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulationwebsite.

Dr. Thao Nguyen

- She is asked how much mirazapan she would give to 136 lb patient. She says that she would start with a small dose of 1 mg and need to know the prior use of the drug with the patient.

- She says Murray's voice sounded calm and normal but he looked devastated.

- She says Murray didn't want them to stop the efforts.


Dan Myers - Detective

- He talks about the phone calls.

- 7:01am call to Andrew Butler. Murray's patient.

- 8:49 am Angelette Guild. Murray's patient. Called Murray to ask about the note she got saying that Murray wouldn't be in his office.

- 9:23 am call Marissia Bioni. Murray is the father of her friend.

- 10:22 am call Dr. Prechad. She indicated that she in post op room in hospital and ready to perfrom a procedure and she needed to know what kind of medication that patient was receiving. She needed to know if she should continue medication. She did talk to Dr. Murray and they dicussed the care for this patient.

- 10:34 am. Stacey Howel Ruggles. Murray's personal assistant.Murray requested her drafting a letter concerning the upcoming tour in London.

- 11:07 am. again calling Stacey Howel Ruggles - Murray's personal assitant.

- 11:18 call Dr. Murray’s practice in Las Vegas.

- 11:26 call. Ms. Morgan.

- call Robert Russel, Dr, Murray's patient.

- 11:51 am Ms. Saday Adinie. Objection to the conversation what the conversation was about is not relevant

- 12:12 pm Michael Amir Williams - Michael's assistant.

- 1:08 pm Ms. Nicole Alvarez.
 
AllForMJ said:
MJ probably had already died that morning and not near noon time.
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yeah but even if MJ had passed away and Murray for some reason didnt noticed it until it was too late (around noon as he claims), it still suspicious to why he never came downstairs to get the juice for MJ at 10am. What was Murray really doing around the time when MJ used to have his breakfast and juice? We know he was talking away on his phone, but still so many pieces missing..

Plus if Travis Payne (Randy Phillips?) were on his way.. why was MJ still in bed. The security or at least MJs assistant must have known Travis was on his way. I wish these things are also brought up.
 
Wow, those phone records give a nice timeline....

So if Murray gave Michael propofol at 10:40, like he said (I think it was a bit earlier, cause his phone record shows he was on the phone ar 10:40, he probably helped MJ between 10:00-10:20 or something)

At 11:26 Murray called a patient of his:
to a Robert Russell. It was his number. Dr. Murray was his cardiologist.

remember: MJ died from acute propofol poisoning, so if Murray says he only gave him propofol once, that's fine, but that also means it was at 10:40 (if that is what the defense will claim).
So MJ is alone from 10:40 until at least 11:26, but probably even until 11:51 when Murray called someone for 11 minutes (so until 12:02).

I gues it's safe to say Murray went back to MJ at 12:02, figured out he had died, felt that MJ was cold to the touch (he might be stupid, but even an idiot would kow that someone who is cold to the touch and had been given propofol 1:22 earlier could never be revived), panicked etc and called the bodyguard at 12:12....
 
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So MJ was sleeping like a baby from 10:40 am till some point between 11:51 -12:03 . He only woke up when Murray left the room , the SECOND Murray left the room MJ woke up , what a coincidence:smilerolleyes: when he wake up he did not call for Murray, he did not say where are you Dr.Murray, he grapped a vial and withdraw lidocaine , injected himself , then got another vial and withdraw propofol and again injected himself. He did all that within two minutes, not only that, within these two minutes the process of dying started ( perimortem wounds) .

Mike did all the above within two minutes? He must have been very worried and rapidly injecting because the very responsible and concerned Dr.Murray would comeback any minute and stop him from getting his 'fix' :smilerolleyes:
 
10:22 am 0124 phone call from to Dr. Murray Taked to a Dr. Prechad? (sp?) She indicated that she in post op room in hospital and ready to perfrom a procedure and she needed to know what kind of medication that patient was receiving. She needed to know if she should continue medication. She did talk to Dr. Murray and they dicussed the care for this patient. Was Dr. Murray able to assist her with the information. He recalled the patient by memory. The patient was a few months post of from a stint. Dr. Murray recalled the patient and the amounts of the medication. She indicated that in her short telephone call of less than 111 seconds. dr. Murray was able to recolect the patient, provide her with necessary information as medications as well as info on the proceedure conducted 2 months earlier.
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dodgy or what? great memory funny that!
 
elusive moonwalker said:
...

10:22 am 0124 phone call from to Dr. Murray Taked to a Dr. Prechad? (sp?) She indicated that she in post op room in hospital and ready to perfrom a procedure and she needed to know what kind of medication that patient was receiving. She needed to know if she should continue medication. She did talk to Dr. Murray and they dicussed the care for this patient. Was Dr. Murray able to assist her with the information. He recalled the patient by memory. The patient was a few months post of from a stint. Dr. Murray recalled the patient and the amounts of the medication. She indicated that in her short telephone call of less than 111 seconds. dr. Murray was able to recolect the patient, provide her with necessary information as medications as well as info on the proceedure conducted 2 months earlier.
...
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Just wow. But he doesn't know that intubation gear would be a good idea with general anesthesia?

What does Murray suffer from? Selective amnesia??
 
Soundmind said:
So MJ was sleeping like a baby from 10:40 am till some point between 11:51 -12:03 . He only woke up when Murray left the room , the SECOND Murray left the room MJ woke up , what a coincidence:smilerolleyes: when he wake up he did not call for Murray, he did not say where are you Dr.Murray, he grapped a vial and withdraw lidocaine , injected himself , then got another vial and withdraw propofol and again injected himself. He did all that within two minutes, not only that, within these two minutes the process of dying started ( perimortem wounds) .

Mike did all the above within two minutes? He must have been very worried and rapidly injecting because the very responsible and concerned Dr.Murray would comeback any minute and stop him from getting his 'fix' :smilerolleyes:
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Oh, yes, and while doing so, Michael also took a pen and a post it and wrote down "Hire another doctor", for Murray was not there for him.
That Michael Jackson guy... he was really of another world with super powers and all!! :ermm:
 
10:22 am 0124 phone call from to Dr. Murray Taked to a Dr. Prechad? (sp?) She indicated that she in post op room in hospital and ready to perfrom a procedure and she needed to know what kind of medication that patient was receiving. She needed to know if she should continue medication. She did talk to Dr. Murray and they dicussed the care for this patient. Was Dr. Murray able to assist her with the information. He recalled the patient by memory. The patient was a few months post of from a stint. Dr. Murray recalled the patient and the amounts of the medication. She indicated that in her short telephone call of less than 111 seconds. dr. Murray was able to recolect the patient, provide her with necessary information as medications as well as info on the proceedure conducted 2 months earlier.
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Maybe he did have a watch at that time :mello: while with MJ... no luck!
 
Pace said:
Yeah, Murray just went by psychism. You know, he didn't know where the address was, nor did he have a watch to know when would be a good time to show up for work- about every day. It was calculating of "well, let's see, sun's about to set, let's drive over to that house with the unknown address."

That stuff is horrifyingly illogical, it hurts.
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It's surprising that he even had a cell phone (or two), considering how old-fashioned he was, medical equipment from a hundred years ago, no watches, and navigating with the "turn left at big oak tree, drive for 2 minutes and then turn right at the palm tree" method. One would think he'd communicate via smoke signals.
 
TheChosenOne said:
Saving Michael's life was not this man's priority. Yeah, I know we know this. But it is really hitting home for me today.

He did not have the proper monitoring equipment.

He did not have any equipment for dealing with an emergency.

He did not know how to do CPR.

He had no idea where he was.

This man meant for Michael to die. He did.
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:(

All this is mockery to this b$%#### the fact that he took someone's life away doesn't mean a damn thing to him, he only cares about himself. This is just too hard to deal with
 
ivy said:
- 11:51 am Ms. Saday Adinie.

- 12:12 pm Michael Amir Williams - Michael's assistant.

- 1:08 pm Ms. Nicole Alvarez.
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Okay maybe this is not that a big deal but I thought Murray was on his phone with Nicole Alvarez, then realized MJ was not breathing and dropped the phone.

So, it was not Nicole, but he was on the phone with someone named Saday? He called Nicole in the ambulance.
 
ScrEAm.Jack5on said:
apparently in court today murray had a pencil & was writing a lot.
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Well duh: he was taking notes, cause obviously he heard loads and loads of things he never heard about before, I think he thought he was in a classroom :D :D
Where the h*ll did this guy get his medical license, what a joke :(
 
PCR said:
Oh, yes, and while doing so, Michael also took a pen and a post it and wrote down "Hire another doctor", for Murray was not there for him.
That Michael Jackson guy... he was really of another world with super powers and all!! :ermm:
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Not only that, but apparently MJ routinely goes to bed when he has appointments taking place at his house. :doh:

Not only can MJ inject himself with large amounts of drugs that would knock people out- no, he even holds out with 'passing out' from general anesthesia until the entire amount is in him- and only then.

Not only that, but MJ was still standing after a boatload of benzos.

Superhuman, that MJ. :bugeyed
 
Milka said:
It's surprising that he even had a cell phone (or two), considering how old-fashioned he was, medical equipment from a hundred years ago, no watches, and navigating with the "turn left at big oak tree, drive for 2 minutes and then turn right at the palm tree" method. One would think he'd communicate via smoke signals.
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Ok, this made me laugh, seriously!
Thanks for doing so!! In the middle of this nightmare, that was really good :flowers:
 
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