Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

[wendy2004]

Wrong doctor that guy was no doctor. He was "Dr" Sebi

Thanks, Justthefacts! Sebi was the herbalist. :doh:

So that leaves Farschian as a wildcard/whatever.

 

[ivy]

I agree....unless one of the docs from the past have an axe to grind.

Metzger, Klein and Adams are still very much in practice. Ratner and Farschian (sp) are wild cards. Who knows WHAT Ratner is going to testify to beyond alleged propofol administration during History tour. He has a not-so-pristine history and had issues with his license at one point. Farschian, the herbalist, was allegedly trying to get MJ off of meds he was dependent on (not necessarily addicted) using natural methods. He later sued Michael for a million dollars for these herbs/vitamins, etc. And Etok....another wild card with some possible credibility issues.

Metzger, Klein, Etok and Adams has already denied - at least in the media - giving propofol. However Metzger, Klein, Etok and Lee says Michael asked them for propofol. Ratner refuses to comment.

 

[wendy2004]

Etok is an attention seeking whore. Probably her only evidence of ever meeting MJ are Geller and that other sicko Mark Lester. They will confirm he met her so they could all sell interviews and profitBy the way until this very minute Etok did not produce any physical evidence she ever met MJ. Not even one Photo with him. She claims she had MANY but keeps them safe away from tabloids because she respects MJ's privacy .yeah sure

lol. I didn't want to be the one to say it.

 

[summer]

I still can't get over the two minute phone call Murray made while in the AMBULANCE with MJ!!!! HOW can he even THINK of calling someone who is ABSOLUTELY NOT involved in the whole process of helping MJ in that kind of situation??!!! It is absolutely BEYOND ME and his behavior REALLY baffles me!! :huh: What did he need to call Alvarez for? "Hey babe...I'll be late for lunch..."? :doh: Absolutely incrediable!!!! We have had emergencies at the ward and I've never seen/heard any nurse or doctor taking out their cell phone in the middle of it all and go "Oh gee...I gotta call my significant other"....And even AFTER a patient is transferred noone usually can think of anything else than THAT...and we usually get together and talk to EACH OTHER about it or the doctors call where the patient is to get info how the patient is doing and then tell us because we want to know too. We don't call home and "chit chat"....and ESPECIALLY not WHILE you're trying to save a patient...I mean WHAT THE F**K??????!!!!! What the f**k is WRONG with that idiot??? Obviously he doesn't have a heart nor was he really paying attention EVEN in the ambulance to what kind of care MJ was getting. I mean, HE was the "higher authority" in the ambulance as a doctor...and "in charge"...and what does he do? He is on the PHONE??? I mean, the ride lasted how long? 4-6 MINUTES??? And he CAN NOT wait that long to call his baby mama? No....he HAS to call from the ambulance while MJ is fighting for his life...Absolutely DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Petrarose]

It's just like the court's handing him inch after inch of rope that he's inevitably going to hang himself with. All of it, all of it is horrible, tragic, terribly unjust and convoluted but I'm putting faith in the justice system to make sure that this guy pays for what he did. It's one thing when everyday people entangle themselves in one anothers' lives and affairs but this guy was A DOCTOR, entrusted to CARE and AID a man that needed his expertise and professional assistance. The stuff that's coming out is just unbelievable... I really feel bad for the kids especially because it will REALLY f*** with them when they realize that what happened to their dad did NOT need to happen. The more info that comes out about what happened, the angrier I get because this was preventable, it didn't need to happen. Ugh.

Honestly, I don't see why this has to go on another week- they should be able to go to trial with the amount of damning testimonies they have already.

The bolded: I was thinking the same thing. What we have heard is brutal and damaging enough. I feel that at this point there is sufficient evidence for trial.

 

[Soundmind]

I forgot to mention Etok claimed she could not show anyone her pics with MJ because the company which owns the right to his image would sue her LOL

Yeah Metzeger said he paid a visit to MJ in April and MJ asked him about propofol being used at home and he said not recommended.

The honorable pole-dancer babymam Alvarez was living in Vegas , suddenly late 2008 she moved to LA where Murray did not even have a clinic, she gave birth to their kid on March 2, 2009 in LA. In March , Murray and MJ paid Adams a visit in Vegas , propofol was the subject APPARENTLY.

In April Metzeger saw MJ and was asked about propfol, Murray prescribed lorazepam also in April .
Late April Lee was asked about propofol by MJ, she was told "my doctor said it was safe"
Murray was hired in May .

Murray was always there , why MJ did not hire him from the very beginning? What will Adams say? did MJ mention Murray to Metzeger?

 

[HIStory]

Metzger, Klein, Etok and Adams has already denied - at least in the media - giving propofol. However Metzger, Klein, Etok and Lee says Michael asked them for propofol. Ratner refuses to comment.

Klein also said to TMZ that MJ was a "drug addict" - so if anybody it will be the defense asking him to testify, not the prosecution.

 

[Autumn II]

Sorry to be O.T., but . . the petition is up now, calling for an increase in Murray's charges.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101656

Given the testimony already, Involuntary Manslaughter is outrageous! This petition has a chance to make a difference only if a LOT of people sign it, so please take the time to do that if you agree with the intent? Thanks.

Carry on. . .

 

[Soundmind]

Klien is the last person to call MJ an addict, in 1992 he was the reason MJ became addicted to demerol and even after he came from rehab , when he was in recovery he AGAIN started to give him demerol. Klien might be very invested in taking the stand so he could have another opportunity to cash on this issue and pay some of his MOUNTING debts.

 

[HIStory]

Klien is the last person to call MJ an addict, in 1992 he was the reason MJ became addicted to demerol and even after he came from rehab , when he was in recovery he AGAIN started to give him demerol. Klien might be very invested in taking the stand so he could have another opportunity to cash on this issue and pay some of his MOUNTING debts.

I know. I also thought it was very hypocritical from him to call MJ an addict, because if it's true he is the prime reason of it! But nevertheless he did say this and the defense can use that in their favour.

 

[Justthefacts]

Klein is under some kind of investigation from the medical board so the last thing he will do is call Michael anything. And if he does we can find out all of the money he has made selling Michael out and then he can say the last time he saw Michael was in June but later say he never saw Michael in May or June like he did during the tmz interview. They can ask him about some of the other things he has said about Michael like he might be the father of his kids and Michael was gay openly for years and that Michael liked to pee in front of people. And he can also tell them that Joe introduced Murray to Michael and that Michael's Propofol breath made Murray fall to sleep while Michael was under it He would be an absolute disaster for whomever calls him

 

[ivy]

Klein is under some kind of investigation from the medical board so the last thing he will do is call Michael anything.

I think the investigation is over and he's fined for using aliases.

 

[X_AGNES_X]

now i really got the feeling that it was intentional.i hate this kind of thought cuz it really breaks my heart to even think of that

he had two phones but himself never dialed 911.if he didn't know the address,like some of you said,it's not like he was the only person in the house.he could have asked the chief downstairs or instructed the bodyguards to do so(which he did but way too late).michael might've been saved if he did that especially the house was so close to the hospital.And his car was found outside the house!i wondered how he could arrive there without the knowledge of the address!NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE DELAY OF 911 CALL.plus leaving your patient alone,the lack of knowledge of performing cpr ,the broken IV,the phone calls and texts he made while he should've been monitoring michael,the lack of proper equipment....

it's certain that he was covering his butt.but his actions were too reckless and incompetent that makes me start to question if there was something else going on.i'm not sure if they were merely his attempt of covering his a** or planned actions anymore.

- Murray tells he doesn't have a watch and he doesn't know how long MJ was down. Murray couldn't give an estimate about when the drug was injected and how long MJ was down.

excuse me dr.death you had two cell phones!

No brain

TRUE.

This is all too much.. I swear if stupidity were a crime, this man would be locked up for life.

i really start to question if he's really THAT STUPID.

 

[mijaons]

I still can't get over the two minute phone call Murray made while in the AMBULANCE with MJ!!!! HOW can he even THINK of calling someone who is ABSOLUTELY NOT involved in the whole process of helping MJ in that kind of situation??!!! It is absolutely BEYOND ME and his behavior REALLY baffles me!! :huh: What did he need to call Alvarez for? "Hey babe...I'll be late for lunch..."? :doh: Absolutely incrediable!!!! We have had emergencies at the ward and I've never seen/heard any nurse or doctor taking out their cell phone in the middle of it all and go "Oh gee...I gotta call my significant other"....And even AFTER a patient is transferred noone usually can think of anything else than THAT...and we usually get together and talk to EACH OTHER about it or the doctors call where the patient is to get info how the patient is doing and then tell us because we want to know too. We don't call home and "chit chat"....and ESPECIALLY not WHILE you're trying to save a patient...I mean WHAT THE F**K??????!!!!! What the f**k is WRONG with that idiot??? Obviously he doesn't have a heart nor was he really paying attention EVEN in the ambulance to what kind of care MJ was getting. I mean, HE was the "higher authority" in the ambulance as a doctor...and "in charge"...and what does he do? He is on the PHONE??? I mean, the ride lasted how long? 4-6 MINUTES??? And he CAN NOT wait that long to call his baby mama? No....he HAS to call from the ambulance while MJ is fighting for his life...Absolutely DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!

I don't find this all that baffling. I think it's quite natural to call someone close to you in case of an emergency or just to convey some big news......

 

[Ingelief]

hey you guys intereseting things you said.. what i was wondering about what summer and soundmind said about the 25 mg propofol that its not true 5-10 min *soundmind* and is to low to give in drops..

what amount have had to be giving if you see the amount of what was in his system? and howlong would 50 mg take michael down?

because i was in shock reading those short times, whats the point of that? if you want to go to whole night?

does it matter if he gave something to referse the benz? i mean for the ER?

and are other doctors like klein going to testify?


I looks like if you read the police report he didnt come back from 10.50 until 12.02 so if he gave it that early michael would been dead at least an hour.. and then 12.02 he prob got back and saw a death michael but he called sec 12.12???

 

[PrincessMichaela]

Klein is under some kind of investigation from the medical board so the last thing he will do is call Michael anything. And if he does we can find out all of the money he has made selling Michael out and then he can say the last time he saw Michael was in June but later say he never saw Michael in May or June like he did during the tmz interview. They can ask him about some of the other things he has said about Michael like he might be the father of his kids and Michael was gay openly for years and that Michael liked to pee in front of people. And he can also tell them that Joe introduced Murray to Michael and that Michael's Propofol breath made Murray fall to sleep while Michael was under it He would be an absolute disaster for whomever calls him

LoL. I'd forgotten about some of that. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[mthalen]

For a second, i thought about something different.

In a short way:
I have feeling, that there is another person (or more) involved.
There was a plan, to murder him on this night!!! This is my personal feeling on this.

Nope, I don't buy it. If Murray was genuinely shocked to see MJ had died he wouldve called 911 immediately. But he KNEW why MJ died cause he had given him all the drugs.

 

[Ingelief]

ps wheter michael killed himself with prop or not for the defense, does that not hang on fingerprints?

 

[mthalen]

Yeah, he was taking notes from Dr. Cooper and that other ER doctor about what doses to give and how.....you know...for next time...

"Wait a minute! I should've used 60mg of propofol, not 125. Oops, better write that down."

 

[HIStory]

Klein is under some kind of investigation from the medical board so the last thing he will do is call Michael anything. And if he does we can find out all of the money he has made selling Michael out and then he can say the last time he saw Michael was in June but later say he never saw Michael in May or June like he did during the tmz interview. They can ask him about some of the other things he has said about Michael like he might be the father of his kids and Michael was gay openly for years and that Michael liked to pee in front of people. And he can also tell them that Joe introduced Murray to Michael and that Michael's Propofol breath made Murray fall to sleep while Michael was under it He would be an absolute disaster for whomever calls him

Yes, I agree. I hope he won't be called. Though IMO he should be thrown in jail together with Murray, but unfortunately that won't happen.

"Michael's Propofol breath made Murray fall to sleep while Michael was under it"

What? Did Klein say this?

 

[summer]

I don't find this all that baffling. I think it's quite natural to call someone close to you in case of an emergency or just to convey some big news......

Yeah...that's maybe if it is YOUR family member...or if you are calling someone who is somehow INVOLVED in the situation....But to call someone who in NO WAY is involved and has NOTHING to do with MJ....it is extremely ODD that a doctor would call his GIRLFRIEND while his patient is DYING IN FRONT OF HIM...instead of COMPLETELY concentrating on the PATIENT and thinking of ways to SAVE THE PATIENT'S life!!! :doh::doh::doh: And sorry but Murray had no business of "conveying big news" to his girlfriend....MJ was Murray's patient. As MJ's doctor he is NOT allowed to tell his girlfriend what is happening with MJ. Murray's GIRLFREND does not need to know about MJ's medical condition. NO nurse/doctor or anyone else who is able to get information about a patient because of their job is allowed to tell ANY outsider about the patient's condition, etc.. You can get SUED if you do. I'm not allowed to tell even my closest friends or family or ANYONE who I saw at the hospital, whose kid was at our ward...who has what and why. EVERY SINGLE doctor and nurse knows that. Or at least should know that and if they are PROFESSIONAL they also act accordingly. So there was absolutely NO reason for Murray to be calling his GIRLFRIEND (or whatever she is to him) in that situation. Sorry, but no way. I'm a nurse myself and like I said...we have had emergencies...we have had patients die...and it would have never even CROSSED OUR MINDS to start calling a relative or friend in the MIDDLE of trying to save a patient's life. I mean do you even understand how PREPOSTEROUS that even SOUNDS??!! THINK ABOUT IT!!! It would be about the same as if I was transferring a patient in a life threatening situation to the ICU with the doctors and the doctor or I would call home to ask "What's for dinner"....I mean, THINK ABOUT IT!!! This was not some "recreational ride" for fun....Michael was in there INTUBATED....in CARDIAC ARREST....fighting for his LIFE!! The ride only lasted about a maximum of 6 minutes anyways. WHAT can be so important that he absolutely HAS to call his girlfriend from the AMBULANCE??!! WHAT could POSSIBLY be MORE important than him concentrating on saving MJ's f**king LIFE?????!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry but as someone with medical background and as someone who has SOME idea what she's talking about....it ABSOLUTELY BAFFLES ME that Murray would take 2 minutes to call a GIRLFRIEND, while his patient is dying in front of him. It is ABSOLUTELY ODD. It would be pretty much the same as if some doctor in the ER would stop treating MJ for 2 minutes to call home and go "Man....guess what....Michael Jackson is here an dhe appears to be DEAD!!! Can you believe that!!! We are trying to revive him!! Man, this is BIG!!!! Okay...gotta go and try to save his life now!!"....or "Yeah hi...I think I'll be late for dinner....can we just order pizza?"....It is just absolutely ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mthalen]

Yes. Malevolent. . . . . If you put the whole pattern together, including the "reading the riot act" where he allegedly SHOUTED at Michael, that doesn't exactly point to the kindly personal physician? Does it?

I think the riot act part was about Ortega yelling at Michael. Not about Murray yelling at Michael?

Ortega denied he read Michael "the riot act" during the June 20 meeting.

 

[Topflux]

This whole case is so sad. So extremely sad. It looks like Michael would have been saved almost for sure if in right hands. His earlier child molestation trials are nothing compared to this on the sadness level. This is completely horrible stuff.

 

[mthalen]

- We know the 10:40 time Murray mentioned wasn't right, as he was making calls then.

- In that youtube vid where they demo propofol they hook the patient up to a ventilator. Murray says he had been giving MJ propofol for the past six weeks, how did he do that withouth proper equipment? That alone should be enough to convict him for IM.

If Murray had had the proper equipment and taken the right precautions MJ could've been alive...

 

[bowen9999]

travis payne

Kenny testified that he got the call from Randy who was on his way to MJ's house to pick him up for rehearsals. See below.

Fox News Reporter Sally Arthy was in court today for the preliminary hearing of Michael Jackson’s Doctor Conrad Murray. Here are her notes from inside the courtroom.


Thurs june 25
Learned news of MJ
Had phone call to Staples....
I was on way to rehearsal and Randy going to pick up MJ for rehearsal..Randy said calling for different reason and I am at house for different reason there is ambulance outside

 

[Ingelief]

why would randy pick michael up if alvaraz told that he drove michael to the rehearsals?

 

[mthalen]

Maybe Randy wanted to make sure MJ went to the rehearsals. Seeing how he missed a few and they were in the last week or so of rehearsals?

 

[StacyJ]

I don't understand why the defense wrote the names of other doctors on the board. Ain't no way in hell those doctors are going to testify to giving MJ something he didn't need or enabling an addiction. They also have the right to doctor/patient privilege and I don't think they are going to throw themselves under the bus to save murdering Murray. It will make Murray look even more incompetent because they will all say they didn't and never would give MJ propofol as a sleep aid. So how would that help Murray?

 

[jemini515]

I have been thinking more about the fact that Murray hid the administration of propofol when questioned by EMTs and the UCLA doctors. If he was intent on hiding the fact that he gave an anesthetic, why did he leave the catheter on, if it would only be used under sedation circumstances? He hid other evidence like bottles.

 

[mijaons]

Yeah...that's maybe if it is YOUR family member...or if you are calling someone who is somehow INVOLVED in the situation....But to call someone who in NO WAY is involved and has NOTHING to do with MJ....it is extremely ODD that a doctor would call his GIRLFRIEND while his patient is DYING IN FRONT OF HIM...instead of COMPLETELY concentrating on the PATIENT and thinking of ways to SAVE THE PATIENT'S life!!! :doh::doh::doh: And sorry but Murray had no business of "conveying big news" to his girlfriend....MJ was Murray's patient. As MJ's doctor he is NOT allowed to tell his girlfriend what is happening with MJ. Murray's GIRLFREND does not need to know about MJ's medical condition. NO nurse/doctor or anyone else who is able to get information about a patient because of their job is allowed to tell ANY outsider about the patient's condition, etc.. You can get SUED if you do. I'm not allowed to tell even my closest friends or family or ANYONE who I saw at the hospital, whose kid was at our ward...who has what and why. EVERY SINGLE doctor and nurse knows that. Or at least should know that and if they are PROFESSIONAL they also act accordingly. So there was absolutely NO reason for Murray to be calling his GIRLFRIEND (or whatever she is to him) in that situation. Sorry, but no way. I'm a nurse myself and like I said...we have had emergencies...we have had patients die...and it would have never even CROSSED OUR MINDS to start calling a relative or friend in the MIDDLE of trying to save a patient's life. I mean do you even understand how PREPOSTEROUS that even SOUNDS??!! THINK ABOUT IT!!! It would be about the same as if I was transferring a patient in a life threatening situation to the ICU with the doctors and the doctor or I would call home to ask "What's for dinner"....I mean, THINK ABOUT IT!!! This was not some "recreational ride" for fun....Michael was in there INTUBATED....in CARDIAC ARREST....fighting for his LIFE!! The ride only lasted about a maximum of 6 minutes anyways. WHAT can be so important that he absolutely HAS to call his girlfriend from the AMBULANCE??!! WHAT could POSSIBLY be MORE important than him concentrating on saving MJ's f**king LIFE?????!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry but as someone with medical background and as someone who has SOME idea what she's talking about....it ABSOLUTELY BAFFLES ME that Murray would take 2 minutes to call a GIRLFRIEND, while his patient is dying in front of him. It is ABSOLUTELY ODD. It would be pretty much the same as if some doctor in the ER would stop treating MJ for 2 minutes to call home and go "Man....guess what....Michael Jackson is here an dhe appears to be DEAD!!! Can you believe that!!! We are trying to revive him!! Man, this is BIG!!!! Okay...gotta go and try to save his life now!!"....or "Yeah hi...I think I'll be late for dinner....can we just order pizza?"....It is just absolutely ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree buit Murray done lost his mind............ long long ago.