Queen of Soul Upset Over "Queen" Statement By Beyonce

Well, I think Tina's voice is more the rock n' roll. I think Aretha is good, but overrated. I think with her, its largely a case of the emperors new cloths. I would take Tina over Aretha any day. I think her voice is more interesting, I think she has just as much soul and I think she's far more exciting to watch on stage. She was a legened before she came back with "What's Love Got To Do With It". Ike and Tina Turner made massive classics and her performances were already legendary.

You know what's funny about that, when Janis Joplin was interviewed in 1969 on the "Dick Cavett Show", she was asked who was her all-time favorite artist and she said point blank Tina Turner and also said she was "the queen". So that wasn't the first time someone said that about Tina.
 
But you know what's odd?

We've been running four corners about why Aretha was right to talk and why Beyonce and Mathew were all in the wrong but when Tina and Aretha were Beyonce's age, they struggled to get on the charts mainly either because they were too black or too "rock" for audiences or their sound wasn't really in sync with who they were.

Tina and Ike had limited chart success in the sixties but in the recordings that were released and in the performances they did, Ike was in the background but Tina was clearly the star. Their problems with making hit singles is that no one really knew what to do with IKE and Tina but some knew what they wanted from TINA. She didn't have the studio magic that someone like Aretha later had in the late sixties when she moved to Columbia and dropped the Dinah Washington act.

Aretha struggled for six years with a label that wanted to make her "the next queen of blues" like Dinah was hoisted at the time and Aretha looked up to Dinah. But she said Columbia failed to deliver anything of value and she left when Jerry Wexler and Ahmet Ertegun of Atlantic sold her Columbia contract and did what they did with Ray Charles: let Aretha be Aretha and suddenly she was a star.

Aretha was actually first called "the queen of soul" in 1966 during a performance in Chicago but she barely had any hits and was basically getting attention from venues and halls that booked her. She had been recording for eleven years in the gospel, blues, jazz and pop fields without a lot of clout. It wasn't until 1967 that Aretha finally mixed the styles she grew up with into her own sound and was able to make that "queen of soul" tag stick.

Maybe that's why 40 years later she was upset that the Grammys would even have Beyonce mention Tina as "the queen" who brought together the elements of all the other black female artists that she named. Because she felt that she "stepped on some toes". There's even a conspiracy according to you-know-who that Clive Davis was actually the one who wrote that bit for Beyonce but I wonder how could that have been possible when Beyonce was performing with TINA and ARETHA was part of a gospel segment that for some reason didn't include Mary J. Blige, who left for some reason (some say Aretha was the one who made the decision to oust her out of the Grammys)?

So Aretha came at a bad time to said what she said and got Mathew's stupid a$$ (excuse my French) to further throw stones at Aretha.

I'm over it though. I was pissed in the beginning but it will pass.
 
its not a point about having feelings, its how you DEAL with them. Are you classy and mature about it or not? And Aretha Im afraid, is not lol

ok..we're going on and on about this...but i read aretha's quote...and i don't see what people are up in arms about...as much as i don't understand how there can be a fight amongst us about who has the better talent, or better voice amongst these legends. in truth i don't know of anyone who i haven't heard say something in response to being dissed.

we're all in this together..so giving a lesson on class...a do as i say and not as i do thing..well..it seems pointless....and hypocritical.
 
You know what's funny about that, when Janis Joplin was interviewed in 1969 on the "Dick Cavett Show", she was asked who was her all-time favorite artist and she said point blank Tina Turner and also said she was "the queen". So that wasn't the first time someone said that about Tina.

I saw that interview and Janis Joplin had more soul then just about anyone. That says a lot. Calling someone the "Queen" is a generic statement and it could refer to anything. For Aretha to get angry over something like that is petty.

And vinc, I brought Michael up because he's been slandard, actually attacked in a really vicious and cruel way, but he never responds, and I made that point because, if Michael can keep composed about some of the seriously horribe stuff said about him, then it shows a lack of composure and class on Aretha's part that she can't just let something pass which she can't even prove was directed at her. I wasn't saying Michael shouldn't ever react. I was saying the oppostie, actually, that he's been dealt such rotton treatment, that he more then anyone does deserve to defend himself. But he doesn't, its just not his style. If he did, it would be justified because the attacks on him aren't petty and they aren't silly, their serious and damn mean, but what Aretha's getting huffy over, that IS silly, one because she doesn't own the word or the title "the Queen" and two, she doesn't even know if that was directed at her since her name was never mentioned and three, it wasn't mean or even an attack, it was just someone giving another legend some respect. Aretha gets treated with kid gloves. I've never seen anyone so lawded in my life, so I don't know why she's freaking out.
 
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Yep, and you know what's sad about Aretha's comment:

That Mathew Knowles' stupid a$$ had to say something trying to make it bigger than what it is.

MJ not saying nothing shows he don't like to get into screaming fests with anyone. If he did, his parents would cuss him out. He was raised better than that.
 
And let's see, Aretha should let that slide because:

1.) She now is the winner of 20 Grammys.
2.) She has 77 hit singles, more than any female act, about 18 more made the R&B chart making it 95 entries, including 18 #1 R&B hits.
3.) Her music spoke for a movement or two.
4.) She influenced everyone from Chaka to Mary J.
5.) She was the first woman inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

So when you compared those things to Aretha's comment, it loses a lot of value.
 
I saw that interview and Janis Joplin had more soul then just about anyone. That says a lot. Calling someone the "Queen" is a generic statement and it could refer to anything. For Aretha to get angry over something like that is petty.

And vinc, I brought Michael up because he's been slandard, actually attacked in a really vicious and cruel way, but he never responds, and I made that point because, if Michael can keep composed about some of the seriously horribe stuff said about him, then it shows a lack of composure and class on Aretha's part that she can't just let something pass which she can't even prove was directed at her. I wasn't saying Michael shouldn't ever react. I was saying the oppostie, actually, that he's been dealt such rotton treatment, that he more then anyone does deserve to defend himself. But he doesn't, its just not his style. If he did, it would be justified because the attacks on him aren't petty and they aren't silly, their serious and damn mean, but what Aretha's getting huffy over, that IS silly, one because she doesn't own the word or the title "the Queen" and two, she doesn't even know if that was directed at her since her name was never mentioned and three, it wasn't mean or even an attack, it was just someone giving another legend some respect. Aretha gets treated with kid gloves. I've never seen anyone so lawded in my life, so I don't know why she's freaking out.


well..you're right about MJ...although he did say that 'people are crazy' in ebony..and..well..he had a right..and he still has class..

i read the transcript of what aretha said....i didn't actually see her say it...

though i don't know that i need to...

i just guess that, i didn't walk in this woman's shoes...i don't know about the long road she has traveled...and i know her talent is immense..and i'm sure she has dealt with some real ish along her long road... and considering all that...the transcript i read looked polite to me.

i just don't understand what the fuss is about, telling her how to respond, when each and everyone of us is ultrasensitive...we're just not qualified to give that advice to her..
 
And let's see, Aretha should let that slide because:

1.) She now is the winner of 20 Grammys.
2.) She has 77 hit singles, more than any female act, about 18 more made the R&B chart making it 95 entries, including 18 #1 R&B hits.
3.) Her music spoke for a movement or two.
4.) She influenced everyone from Chaka to Mary J.
5.) She was the first woman inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

So when you compared those things to Aretha's comment, it loses a lot of value.

whoa..i don't understand where you are coming from...but it's hard for all that great accomplishment to lose value. this is the first i have heard of aretha commenting on anything... it's gunna take a lot more than that for me to chastise her...and quite frankly i don't think anyone qualifies to chastise her..
 
whoa..i don't understand where you are coming from...but it's hard for all that great accomplishment to lose value. this is the first i have heard of aretha commenting on anything... it's gunna take a lot more than that for me to chastise her...and quite frankly i don't think anyone qualifies to chastise her..

She said she didn't know whose toe she stepped on but she thought what Beyonce said was "wrong and uncalled for" yet said "no hate on the Grammies or Beyonce, just thought I'd point that out" as if that was to cover up something.

That's just how I look at it but if you look at it as being Aretha's right to talk, hey that's all good. :)

Agree to disagree is my motto. :D
 
well..you're right about MJ...although he did say that 'people are crazy' in ebony..and..well..he had a right..and he still has class..

i read the transcript of what aretha said....i didn't actually see her say it...

though i don't know that i need to...

i just guess that, i didn't walk in this woman's shoes...i don't know about the long road she has traveled...and i know her talent is immense..and i'm sure she has dealt with some real ish along her long road... and considering all that...the transcript i read looked polite to me.

i just don't understand what the fuss is about, telling her how to respond, when each and everyone of us is ultrasensitive...we're just not qualified to give that advice to her..

Michael saying "people are crazy" is a general statement about people making stuff up about him and isn't a direct shot at anyone. Further more, if that's as mean as Michael gets, then he's just about the nicest guy in the world, lol.

I'm sure Aretha's been through some stuff, but so has Tina Turner. And here's the thing, nobody made any slight on Aretha personally and as far as I know, they never really have, and here she is complaining about someone calling someone else "The Queen", when all anyone ever does is praise her to the high heavens as the greatest singer of all times. You say something bad about Aretha and its like saying something bad about Martin Luther King Jr., people just about have a heart attack. I've never seen anyone so lauded artistically as this woman, all anyone does is talk about how she's this and that, the best, blah, blah. Persoanlly, I don't see it. But for her to get mad, over something that isn't even directly related to her, is silly, imo.

And Beyonce's dad is an idiot if he made a big deal out of this cause he's just drawing attention to something which shouldn't have gotten any in the first place.
 
it's gunna take a lot more than that for me to chastise her...and quite frankly i don't think anyone qualifies to chastise her..

I agree with you. It seems as though everyone who wants to put Aretha in the doghouse for speaking her peace is only doing so because they have "Beyonce-itis".

I am not on that page. In my book Beyonce will never mean as much to me as Aretha has throughout my life. Quoting statistics aren't rational when it comes to the real deal and the passion of a great artist.

I won't ever say that Aretha was wrong for speaking up. She felt shafted and I agree with her. The fact that Beyonce got caught up in the cross wires and it benefited her because she was about to prance across the stage with Tina, while Aretha sat in the audience, simply means she basically put the bitter pill in Aretha's mouth.

I don't know why Michael's name keeps getting brought up in this. He has enough disparaging situations to live free of. (For instance: I didn't like the question that Billy Bush asked him about what he thought about Justin Timberlake, because Justin was most like a Michael Jackson. That question sucked from the first syllable out of his mouth.)

If any of you who keeps throwing Aretha under the bus had been sitting there in her shoes, feeling like...whatever she felt at the time...being who she is and has proven to be...I'm sure your feeling wouldn't be so damning towards her.

As I posted earlier, Aretha has been there and done that and she can say whatever the hell she wants to and about whoever she wants, if she feels her honor has been disrepected.

Being in the business for close to 50 or more years, MAKING IT, and still getting awards gives her the right.

I'm disagreeing with all the "Retha" haters. Aretha is SOUL SISTER No. #1 and any mentions of "Queen" in the presence of her and it not referring to her is definitely disrepectful.
 
Why it gotta be haters, yo? :rofl: Just call it "opinionated critics". :lol: She's still a legend and I respect her steelo but got damn, I'll be damned if I'm gonna just agree with everything she do. ;)
 
I don't even like Beyonce, lol. What? I just don't think she actually meant any disrespect by it. And you can bring up that Billy Bush asked Michael that question about Justin Timberlake and sure, that was disrespectful because he compared that talentless twit to Michael and actually insinutated they were close to the same level, but you also see Michael didn't say sh*t about it. He just nodded and smiled and said Justin was great. You know he wasn't thinking that, but he had the composure and class not to say anything either. Michael's got self-respect and the fact that he remains polite and kind shows that. I don't even think Aretha was disrespected. Just because Beyonce called Tina Turner, whose been in the game just as long and is a legened in her own right, "The Queen", doesn't mean she was trying to slap Aretha in the face or that it was a slap in the face. Again, Aretha's gotten enough praise in her career to last her 10 lifetimes. I don't know why she's tripping over one little comment lauding another artist and which didn't even make reference to her by name. It wasn't about Aretha Franklin, it was about Tina Turner.
 
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^^^ That's one of the many things i love about Michael. :wub: The man has class!

If Justin is called by another artist the King of pop in front of MJ, i'll kill that artist. but this isn't the case, Beyonce had only referred to Tina turner as the queen, which is a general term plus, both Tina and Aretha are in the same generation, i don't see anything disrespectful about that.
 
^ i bet you lot would feel differently if that was Prince and Mike in that scenario!

imagine if Beyonce called Prince simply "The King" in front of Mike - what would be your reaction? :)

two completely different geniuses, yet people always compare "facts" and many like to fuel "rivalry".

silly silly titles...
 
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Aretha is going to talk about her statement on Access Hollywood this evening.
 
Referring to someone as "The King or Queen" is a general statement and those titles can't be associated with anybody. If someone called Prince "The King" while Michael was there, who cares, that's not what Michael is known by. He's known as "The King of Pop", "The King of Pop, Rock and Soul", "The Prince of Pop", "The Pied Piper of Pop", etc... If they referred to Prince by any of THOSE names, then I'd be miffed.

Besides, Prince already said he don't wanna be King, lol.
 
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^ i bet you lot would feel differently if that was Prince and Mike in that scenario!

imagine if Beyonce called Prince simply "The King" in front of Mike - what would be your reaction? :)

two completely different geniuses, yet people always compare "facts" and many like to fuel "rivalry".

silly silly titles...

Beyonce has the hots for Michael, so that would never happen. hehe

there's one place where Prince doesn't have it on MJ:D:lol:

ok....let me get out 'for someone throws tomatoes at me
 
Referring to someone as "The King or Queen" is a general statement and those titles can't be associated with anybody. If someone called Prince "The King" while Michael was there, who cares, that's not what Michael is known by. He's known as "The King of Pop", "The King of Pop, Rock and Soul", "The Prince of Pop", "The Pied Piper of Pop", etc... If they referred to Prince by any of THOSE names, then I'd be miffed.

Besides, Prince already said he don't wanna be King, lol.
Oh, Mike wouldn't say anything but his fans would have a fit. they already having fits about other folks being called king of pop. to me, all of this is just silly, but I can't wait to see what Aretha has to say.
 
I'm speaking for myself is all. I wouldn't care because Michael isn't known as "The King", lol. That's a general statement.
 
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If someone called Prince "The King" while Michael was there, who cares, that's not what Michael is known by.
of the 20-odd-year rivalry people set up for these two, you really think fans would let that go unnoticed? it's not strictly about the crappy "King of blah" title - it's about referring to someone in the highest regard in the presence of a major rival - in this case, the only rival - which is stupid because they're both so different but such is the way of the masses... they're usually asses.

and having followed your passionate posts (majority of which i rate highly, mind you), i can't help but think you're telling porkie pies saying you wouldn't care if Prince was called The King in front of his rival, your idol LOL
 
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I agree with you. It seems as though everyone who wants to put Aretha in the doghouse for speaking her peace is only doing so because they have "Beyonce-itis".

I am not on that page. In my book Beyonce will never mean as much to me as Aretha has throughout my life. Quoting statistics aren't rational when it comes to the real deal and the passion of a great artist.

I won't ever say that Aretha was wrong for speaking up. She felt shafted and I agree with her. The fact that Beyonce got caught up in the cross wires and it benefited her because she was about to prance across the stage with Tina, while Aretha sat in the audience, simply means she basically put the bitter pill in Aretha's mouth.

I don't know why Michael's name keeps getting brought up in this. He has enough disparaging situations to live free of. (For instance: I didn't like the question that Billy Bush asked him about what he thought about Justin Timberlake, because Justin was most like a Michael Jackson. That question sucked from the first syllable out of his mouth.)

If any of you who keeps throwing Aretha under the bus had been sitting there in her shoes, feeling like...whatever she felt at the time...being who she is and has proven to be...I'm sure your feeling wouldn't be so damning towards her.

As I posted earlier, Aretha has been there and done that and she can say whatever the hell she wants to and about whoever she wants, if she feels her honor has been disrepected.

Being in the business for close to 50 or more years, MAKING IT, and still getting awards gives her the right.

I'm disagreeing with all the "Retha" haters. Aretha is SOUL SISTER No. #1 and any mentions of "Queen" in the presence of her and it not referring to her is definitely disrepectful.

Got damn you hit it on the nail. AGREE AGREE agree
Now heres my 2cents but you summed it up though lol

First off, I don't think Aretha was wrong for speaking up and reading some comments I think you smoking indian pipe if you think Aretha is the one with the issue because she's not. Like ladyplatium said once somebody is "it" at the moment its okay for them to say any damn thing they want when in reality its not ESPECIALLY if that person has not been around long enough to call anybody the queen of anything. Automatically people feed into that ish when its just crap. B was wrong for what she said EVEN though I think she really didn't mean to offend anybody by the comment but what she was implying was offensive. I mean she said that I scartched my head because I thought she was on something and knowing the public/media they suck into anything that chick says and does. It doesn't matter even if she left out "the soul" part of the comment. When she was doing her lil tribute to the female legends before her, she was building up to introducing Tina. Then in the end basically she said all those female legends add up to Tina, the queen? WTF? I LOVE Tina thats my gurl, but to say Lena hourne, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross and alot of other female legends add up to Tina? especially Aretha? I would not have said that, she was out of line and she was downgrading the other female legends when she said that NOT just Aretha. I don't care even if she was giving Tina Props. I don't wanna mention Mike but even when Brittany Spears back in 02 was presenting the fake ass award to MJ on the VMA's she said, "and I consider him the artist of the millimenium" even if other people felt that way about Mike, not EVERYBODY does. Thats why she just said "I" as in HER opinion. Thats what B should have said but even if she said that she hasn't been around the block that long to be giving out titles. To me thats why I never understood what was the big deal about B because everything that she is doing has already been done. She isn't doing anything thats innovative, her songs are wack(no good lyrics) her music is average nothing to jump up and down about and I must say TINA MOPPED THE FLOOR ON HER lol she did her thing. Another Thing, Aretha is the QUEEN, BOW down and show some damn respect. She can say whatever the hec she wants, she has been there and done that and at the rate that music is going, nobody will NEVER top her.
 
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Back to Beyonce though, I wonder if she has the guts to match the fury and guts of someone like Etta James, whom she's playing in an upcoming film.

I say she doesn't. She tried to be "Diana Ross" and failed, why would she attempt to do "Etta James"? Etta's still rocking the house in her early seventies. Wonder where Beyonce will be around the time she reaches Etta's age.
 
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aretha has the title of "The Queen" as well as 'the Queen of Soul". its the first time i hear someone in the business refer to tina as "The Queen" :huh: tina has the title of "The Queen of Rock 'n' Roll". aretha has both "the queen" and "the queen of soul" titles

I must agree with you Roxanne, Aretha has been here blowing her pipes for decades, she's sung an opening at at the Superbowl plus, she is great, not that Tina is not but Aretha is well respected all over the world just as Michael is. And it's Beyonnce who says she is "Queen B", she wants to be included in all things. She is moving to fast for britches if you know what i mean...*sigh*
Tina, on the otherhand has recently lost her ex-husband, take outta that what you will. RIP

In my opinon, they were just filing time that was meant for Michael, we all know that everyone wants to be called "The King of Pop" however, it's not gonna happen.

I think she has the right to claim both titles, in my opinion. :p
 
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Back to Beyonce though, I wonder if she has the guts to match the fury and guts of someone like Etta James, whom she's playing in an upcoming film.

I say she doesn't. She tried to be "Diana Ross" and failed, why would she attempt to do "Etta James"? Etta's still rocking the house in her early seventies. Wonder where Beyonce will be around the time she reaches Etta's age.

Thank you Timmy, you know what trime it is...:lol:
 
Got damn you hit it on the nail. AGREE AGREE agree
Now heres my 2cents but you summed it up though lol

First off, I don't think Aretha was wrong for speaking up and reading some comments I think you smoking indian pipe if you think Aretha is the one with the issue because she's not. Like ladyplatium said once somebody is "it" at the moment its okay for them to say any damn thing they want when in reality its not ESPECIALLY if that person has not been around long enough to call anybody the queen of anything. Automatically people feed into that ish when its just crap. B was wrong for what she said EVEN though I think she really didn't mean to offend anybody by the comment but what she was implying was offensive. I mean she said that I scartched my head because I thought she was on something and knowing the public/media they suck into anything that chick says and does. It doesn't matter even if she left out "the soul" part of the comment. When she was doing her lil tribute to the female legends before her, she was building up to introducing Tina. Then in the end basically she said all those female legends add up to Tina, the queen? WTF? I LOVE Tina thats my gurl, but to say Lena hourne, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross and alot of other female legends add up to Tina? especially Aretha? I would not have said that, she was out of line and she was downgrading the other female legends when she said that NOT just Aretha. I don't care even if she was giving Tina Props. I don't wanna mention Mike but even when Brittany Spears back in 02 was presenting the fake ass award to MJ on the VMA's she said, "and I consider him the artist of the millimenium" even if other people felt that way about Mike, not EVERYBODY does. Thats why she just said "I" as in HER opinion. Thats what B should have said but even if she said that she hasn't been around the block that long to be giving out titles. To me thats why I never understood what was the big deal about B because everything that she is doing has already been done. She isn't doing anything thats innovative, her songs are wack(no good lyrics) her music is average nothing to jump up and down about and I must say TINA MOPPED THE FLOOR ON HER lol she did her thing. Another Thing, Aretha is the QUEEN, BOW down and show some damn respect. She can say whatever the hec she wants, she has been there and done that and at the rate that music is going, nobody will NEVER top her.

Amen, agreed!!!!
 
of the 20-odd-year rivalry people set up for these two, you really think fans would let that go unnoticed? it's not strictly about the crappy "King of blah" title - it's about referring to someone in the highest regard in the presence of a major rival - in this case, the only rival - which is stupid because they're both so different but such is the way of the masses... they're usually asses.

and having followed your passionate posts (majority of which i rate highly, mind you), i can't help but think you're telling porkie pies saying you wouldn't care if Prince was called The King in front of his rival, your idol LOL

Well I wouldn't and you're just going to have to take my word for it! :lol:
 
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