The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

LunaJo is the only one left it seems that is making good vids and is SANE! lol One of my other favs at times was MJFanForeverAndADAY. But, she let the haters get to her and she bounced. Said her goodbyes months ago! To bad too cause she never finished her views which were interesting. Oh well...
I read somewhere that Pearl jr was harrassing her, can't find it now though.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I think the hoax theory is getting tired from all angles. Even though I find Luna Jo interesting, she is often splitting hairs at times. It really is amazing what they can find and see into everything ......and the time they find for it!

I think Pearls latest is one of her better efforts, at least she sort of filled the video up this time. I find it interesting there seems to be no backlash from the family on all this sort of stuff. Even seems like its played into with some of the comments left at times.

I saw a video on how some guy uses a device to make his voice sound like MJ. Not sure if it was Peter Pan PYT?
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I read somewhere that Pearl jr was harrassing her, can't find it now though.
That would be weird. Since it was MJfan by the looks of it starting with Pearl first. By making a vid against a vid Pearl made about the hoax that she didn't agree with. MJfan from the start always had haters that she let get to her. I lost count on how many times she mentioned it on her vids. SMH

I find it interesting there seems to be no backlash from the family on all this sort of stuff.
The only backlash was from Jermaine last yr on Twitter. He was telling her she was wrong and taking advantage of fans emotions. It went back in forth a bit and that's it.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Even though I find Luna Jo interesting, she is often splitting hairs at times. It really is amazing what they can find and see into everything ......and the time they find for it!

The videos of Luna are the best because she uses only the FACTS (no material hoax), she does not give her opinion, it behooves us to take away our conclusions. The videos of Luna gives us the freedom to create our own line of thought, just that. She really does a great job of research and digs down deep the facts. :eek: It's so amazing how everything/people are connected in Michael's life in a way so surreal and crazy. That's scary... :fear:
 
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I do wonder what has happened to many video makers such as Magicalxcapism ? she seemed knowledgeable and then just stopped making videos around February time, with no warning and of course, JonellStarRV left a long time ago. I also agree that MJFanForeverandaday had very good vids, but at least she said she was going to stop making them, as did PianoGames/CodeofThriller. Thankfully MJHoaxEvidence is still around with her superb vids, Luna Jo is great, but thinks MJ is no longer alive, so it seems :( and where is Esprit?
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I think Esprit467 is still around. So is Flyingfairy and then there is TMKofficialhoax but I have unsubscribed to to most of them so Im not up with them all.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Has anyone seen Michael lately and noticed how different he looks?
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Has anyone seen Michael lately and noticed how different he looks?
Yea but, I think he changed his name to Pablo now? Well at least that's what Pearl Jr. thinks.... :tease: lol
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Stella and Blue those who have dreamed about Michael from time to time will connect to what I am saying. I have seen Michael in dreams since his death. Two weeks after he died he was smiling. After the burial I saw him with a candle trying to come out of the tomb but again he looked at peace. At the time I thought maybe he did not like the "cold" environment and would prefer something more airy. I saw him several times through the years. He speaks and bring me things of which significance I do not understand. However, at all times he looks happy. Sometimes he is smiling and at other times he is serious.

Now I saw him again Wednesday this week and it was not pleasant. First, he was lying on something like a slab in a room asleep. It was someplace where the rooms connect to each other. There was someone in the room next to his--a male--who was doing something evil (I do not understand exactly what but had the feeling that it was evil). Also, from the room where Michael was sleeping you could look down to another room where there was an altar with about 3 people standing in front of it and again they were up to no good. So I left the room and then walked back into it again and Michael waked up. He was very thin. His shirt moved up from his waist area and you could see how shrunken it looked. Basically he looked sickly. He turned his face towards me and it looked pained, strained, and unhappy.

I was speaking to someone about this, and they said it may have something to do with the problems in the summer. Maybe he is aware of it. I also did not like the altar part because some people do these creepy seances which interfere with the dead. Since Wednesday I have increased the prayers I say for the repose of his soul. Since Michael died I had included him in my prays for the dead which I say for family members who have died. I take dreams about Michael seriously since he came to me in a dream weeks after he died and told me to write down some numbers. The clients told me to play them and they came out the day after the dream. Now when I see him looking like this I am concerned. I mean my dad died years ago and when I dream about him, he is always very happy and looks really young. There should be no need for Michael to look tormented. What could have caused a transition from happiness to a state of torment?
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

It can be own mind and thoughts that may be saying MJ is tormented or happy or content. What we dream is not necessary reality. Many dream about him as being happy and content. Our dreams are more about us and our feelings and conflicts more than who or what we are dreaming about. Dreams do not necessarily mean a spiritual connection either. Real as they may seem we may be dreaming what our own mind projects not necessarily what Michael is projecting to us.

My own dreams show Michael in a state of peace. Now that may be because my own Christian and biblical beliefs are that God does not allow our souls to be in torment when we pass on. In many of my dreams we have deep conversations about many things. I also feel a strong spiritual connection with him and I am very comforted by them. So I'm not saying its impossible to have a spiritual connection becuase ive felt that many times. I ve also had dreams that are not anything more than my mind entertaining me. All in all i feel we must be careful when interpreting dreams and their personal meaning for us.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

It can be own mind and thoughts that may be saying MJ is tormented or happy or content. What we dream is not necessary reality. Many dream about him as being happy and content. Our dreams are more about us and our feelings and conflicts more than who or what we are dreaming about. Dreams do not necessarily mean a spiritual connection either. Real as they may seem we may be dreaming what our own mind projects not necessarily what Michael is projecting to us.

My own dreams show Michael in a state of peace. Now that may be because my own Christian and biblical beliefs are that God does not allow our souls to be in torment when we pass on. In many of my dreams we have deep conversations about many things. I also feel a strong spiritual connection with him and I am very comforted by them. So I'm not saying its impossible to have a spiritual connection becuase ive felt that many times. I ve also had dreams that are not anything more than my mind entertaining me. All in all i feel we must be careful when interpreting dreams and their personal meaning for us..

In one night I repeatdely dreamt of waking up and typing a message on this thread, so now I don't know whether I am dreaming or not :p
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

In one night I repeatdely dreamt of waking up and typing a message on this thread, so now I don't know whether I am dreaming or not :p
:lol: well when you wake up tomorrow and your message is still here. You will know you were not dreaming.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

:lol: well when you wake up tomorrow and your message is still here. You will know you were not dreaming.

Who knows, right now I am listening to "Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' (too good to be true)" :D
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Qbee I see what you mean, but I still don't know. You think we project our thoughts on the dead and it is more about our thought and feelings--who knows. I was not thinking of Michael in that state at all and again no one knows what is in our minds, and if we do not have a gift of interpreting dreams like in the bible, we should be cautious about making assertive comments about them. What could be true for you and your dreams may not be true for others. Some people have more prophetic dreams, some are due to overeating or drinking the night before, some as you say come from what we worry about during the day, but not all dreams are caused by the same effect. For instance, out of the blue one of my sisters had a dream about me and called me early the next morning to be careful about a particular circumstance that I will find myself in during the day. Does she think bad things about me--no. Did she know from before what my day will be--no. She lives in another state. She has always been like that and would dream remedies about how to cure herself or others in the family. She would then call them up and say take such and such. Now with the remedies definitely you can see, like you say, how knowing about someone's sickness caused her to pray about it, and then she gets a solution in a dream.

Now here is an example of how people alive can affect a dead person. When my dad died after the funeral everyone gathered in a room and began talking good things about him. Of course you had the odd ball, and my eldest sister began rehashing all the things he did to her since a child even though at the time she was in her 50's. She went on and on. What happened? Some nights later I dreamed I saw him as a child kneeling in front of a mound next to the church, and he was weeping. When I say weeping, I mean his body was shaking, tears were running down his face and he was moving his torso up and down to the ground. I ran to him and said daddy, daddy what is wrong with you. While weeping he said, "I just want to be left alone, I just want to rest in peace, stop talking about me." When I woke up I called everyone and that sister and told them not to talk bad about him anymore. This made me realize that the dead know what is going on, and I have a feeling it takes a while for them to go where they are supposed to go. My mom had different dreams about my dad and prayed for his soul for years. She did see him sad in one dream, but usually he was at peace. He brings here things too. Once he came as a child and stretched out his hand with something hidden in it and told her to take it. She kept telling him no and he kept insisting. He also knew she was praying for him and finally 13 years after his death he came to her smiling and said Thank you for the prayers. She interpreted it to mean he had passed on from the stage where people go as their sins are cleansed to the stage where sinless & pure people go, because she never saw him again. This is just her interpretation and her belief, because she does not think we die and go to heaven; we have to be cleansed first and it takes time and prayers from the living. This is her religious teaching and it may not be the same for other religions.

Here is an example about where reality has nothing to do with what we dream: Sometime in 09 I dreamed that I was standing somewhere outdoors and a big bus (the type people charter and go to the casino in) came down the street and stopped in front of me. The door opened and out came Michael. He stretched out his hand to the opened door of the bus and out came a load of people in their late teens to early 20s. He made them come and stand next to me, went back in the bus and drove away without saying anything. The same dream repeated 2 more times like in a loop. The bus came, etc. The third time after he dropped off the people for me, he shook my hand and went back in the bus, and that was the end of the whole dream just Michael coming and bringing me some people. Now do I want some people--no. Was I going on a bus ride, working with people that age--no. Did I see some bus story, people story--no. Do I want 3 bus loads of young people--no. Do I have a fetish where I wish Michael would bring me a load of people and think of this all day long--no. In fact a more realistic thought I would have of Michael would be for him to come to my room in the gold pants outfit and then we turn off the light. Now if I dream about that you can definitely say it is because I was thinking about that and my thoughts were projected in my dream. However, I do not have such dreams of Michael. They are always serious situations and seem to have some significance, but I do not know what they mean.

Even the time when he gave me the numbers, I was not thinking "oh I hope Michael gives me a winning number." In that particular dream he called me on the phone and said "I am coming," and gave long detailed instructions about something. He did come though and brought me a Japanese baby, like a newborn. He knocked on the door, I opened it and he hands me this baby. Now what am I suppose to do with a Japanese baby? Was I wishing for a baby--good heavens no. Do I have some Japanese baby friends that I was thinking about or playing with--no. Did I wish I could be pregnant, or did my friends call and say they were pregnant--no.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Last night I dreamt of Martin Luther King. He said to me "I have a dream..." then I woke up in the middle of another dream in which I was typing this very message.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Oh okay Petarose at first I thought u was joking when u said has anyone seen MJ? o_O But, I see now u were serious and talkin about ur dreams!

When MJ was alive My dreams of him were always of a young MJ J5 era and he was always very sad. When he was an adult in my dreams it was him always tryin to escape something bad or death. After he died I no longer have any dreams of him...=( But, my dreams of him were never happy ones so... I long predicted to family members of mine (yrs ago, that know I was a fan and respected it) that MJ would die young and it would be do to heart failure. I was sorta right! He died at 50 and Propofol gave him a cardiac arrest which stops the heart. Needless to say some family members look at me sideways now and asked me how the hell did u know that? I just tell them I had a feelin. When he died I was still shocked of course but, it took a while to actually cry because I was kinda not surprised. My first reaction was ANGER. It's a weird thing to explain! Basically, I always felt MJ life was in danger because of all that crap he went through and people accusing him of ridiculous things and I wish I could have done something to stop it. I sometimes get that feelin for his children future and their lives being in danger?! Hopefully I'll be wrong this time?! But, there are people out there that will spill their hate for their father onto them. That's for sure.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Petrarose,

I used to use a site to interpret dreams. I found it very useful and it seemed quite accurate once I pieced all the bits together. Even color, tone, materials or objects around me all came into the equasion.

I think this was it....

http://www.dreammoods.com/dreamdictionary/

I also found this one...

http://dream.dictionary-dream.info/



I wonder if Michael bringing people to you is a symbol of you being able to be an ambassador for him?

Hope this helps. :angel:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Oh okay Petarose at first I thought u was joking when u said has anyone seen MJ? o_O But, I see now u were serious and talkin about ur dreams!

When MJ was alive My dreams of him were always of a young MJ J5 era and he was always very sad. When he was an adult in my dreams it was him always tryin to escape something bad or death. After he died I no longer have any dreams of him...=( But, my dreams of him were never happy ones so... I long predicted to family members of mine (yrs ago, that know I was a fan and respected it) that MJ would die young and it would be do to heart failure. I was sorta right! He died at 50 and Propofol gave him a cardiac arrest which stops the heart. Needless to say some family members look at me sideways now and asked me how the hell did u know that? I just tell them I had a feelin. When he died I was still shocked of course but, it took a while to actually cry because I was kinda not surprised. My first reaction was ANGER. It's a weird thing to explain! Basically, I always felt MJ life was in danger because of all that crap he went through and people accusing him of ridiculous things and I wish I could have done something to stop it. I sometimes get that feelin for his children future and their lives being in danger?! Hopefully I'll be wrong this time?! But, there are people out there that will spill their hate for their father onto them. That's for sure.

Blue ^^interesting indeed. Unlike you I never had a dream about Michael when he was alive and looking back now, I also wished I had done more when he was alive, like be an activist. Oh well. I also never dreamed about him prior to his solo period. Another interesting thing is that in the first dreams I had of Michael in 09 after his death his back was turned to me, and you could not see his face. Even though I would try to move around to see his face, his back would remain directed at me. As days passed after his death I began to see the front of him with the face looking at you, and he would be some feet away. Even more weeks later he became closer where you can actually touch him. I am trying to recall accurately, and I think in the first dream he was in a room, and I was asking the people in the room if I could see him, and they said no I was not allowed. Then, the first time I tried to touch him, he stepped back about 3 paces. What exactly all this means I have no idea. Maybe there is a death process where you can't see or touch the person until something specific happens in their situation. I know my mom told me that after her mom died when she was a little girl, she dreamed her mom was calling her with her arms out. She was about to go into her mom's arms when a stranger came and pulled her away and said, little girl what are you doing. So maybe right after a person dies, you are not supposed to hug them. I have no idea.

It is amazing that your dreams about him was about escaping something bad, since his death was more like him escaping. Something I noticed about Michael is that he spoke about not wanting to be old with great intensity, and I have found in my life experience that people who keep saying that they do not want to live long/grow old and ugly, and say so with conviction, tend to die young.

I wonder now if you have a dream about him in what way it will change. hummmm.

Miche about being an ambassador, someone else thought it had something to do with me always helping others. (something I have to stop doing)
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

When MJ was a child in my dreams I would always have to assure him that he was okay! It was so sad and hug him. he didn't have to tell me what was wrong because I just knew he felt unloved. Most likely cause of what he went through with his dad and the lost of a childhood.

Sometimes it's hard for me to look at blanket because he reminds me of his dad...that face, THOSE EYES! =( But, hopefully his fate will be different and that of his older brother and sister?!
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Dont give up trying to help others Petrarose, that could be your calling and it is never an easy calling, but one you must follow if it is the way you are driven. ...Just like Micheal! :)

Do try and have a go to look into the meaning of your dreams. It can be quite enlightening and interesting. I wonder is there a dream thread on this site? .. It sounds like there should be!!
 
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

^^The good thing is that the kid is young and has much of life to go through, so chances are he will not follow the same paths or have the same experiences as the father. We don't know what his interests are. So far he has not been singing in nightclubs and touring, so already the father's experience has not paralleled his, at least in that respect. Of course he is dragged around so people could be paid, but he does not have to do much, like singing for hours and working hard, although he does look sad standing around in the spotlight.

Blue roughly what year did you begin to dream about sad young Michael? Was it in the 80s, 90s ......
Also, did you find him sad when he was a child?

When Michael was young I saw him as simply a young kid enjoying himself singing with his brothers. I mean, it was only after he wrote his book, that I realized there was something a little more going on.

Bumper about the Martin Luther dream, it seems you are not sleep walking, but sleep typing. Just like you to invent something new and different!!!!! Other people sleep walk!! Actually I never dream about the forum or what I do on it, which is strange since I spend a lot of time here.
 
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Blue roughly what year did you begin to dream about sad young Michael? Was it in the 80s, 90s ......
Also, did you find him sad when he was a child?
Well, I was born in 83 so anything I saw of the Jackson five would be later. In 87 I became a fan and learn who MJ was. That he was first part of The Jackson five with his brothers. And I did see what I thought at the time a "united family" and a "happy child."

Of course that all changed in the 90's when he revealed what he went through growing up, then when he was accused of all kinds of things. So that would be where the dreams started of a sad child and escaping death! My dreams of him dying were spooky like the world stop and everything would go dark (like the sky) and people were in complete shock and didn't know what to do. Well, it sorta kinda did happen in real life in terms of the news of him shouting down the internet for a while and people were in shock. But, it was more of how I felt inside imaging him not here anymore in those dreams. Because I believe dreams do reflect what u feel and know about something or someone a lot, but, at times they can be random and make no sense.

And yes MJ always appeared very sad to me even as an adult. He was very lonely and not knowing who is his real friends. He couldn't even trust his own relatives. That is scary! And he even died freakin alone. What a nightmare!

But, I don't dream about him anymore since he died...I missed him like crazy but, I feel he is at peace. Like my worry for him is no longer there like when he was livin. And I think that's why the dreams stopped? But, I still feel ANGER about it and HATE Murray and those who put him through hell.

I remember when I heard the news that he was comin back to California because he was goin back to touring. I said to a relative...What is he doin comin back to the states? He will die. O_O i had that feelin again! I didn't want him to come back and was not happy about the TII announcement. I said dammit u proved urself forget the haters and naysayers. Then came that he had 6 months to live rumor and I was like OH SHIT? WTF? Is my nightmare comin true? SMH I really was nervous all those months for him and did cry then, hopin for those six months to past and that he be okay. But, then he did die 6 months later? Of course from different circumstances but, still I found that very creepy! Hard to say he didn't have a target on is back!
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

^^The good thing is that the kid is young and has much of life to go through, so chances are he will not follow the same paths or have the same experiences as the father. We don't know what his interests are. So far he has not been singing in nightclubs and touring, so already the father's experience has not paralleled his, at least in that respect. Of course he is dragged around so people could be paid, but he does not have to do much, like singing for hours and working hard, although he does look sad standing around in the spotlight.

Blue roughly what year did you begin to dream about sad young Michael? Was it in the 80s, 90s ......
Also, did you find him sad when he was a child?

When Michael was young I saw him as simply a young kid enjoying himself singing with his brothers. I mean, it was only after he wrote his book, that I realized there was something a little more going on.

Bumper about the Martin Luther dream, it seems you are not sleep walking, but sleep typing. Just like you to invent something new and different!!!!! Other people sleep walk!! Actually I never dream about the forum or what I do on it, which is strange since I spend a lot of time here.

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haaaa.gif

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Nelson___HAA_HAAAA___Muntz_by_Dynamoe.jpg
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Luna Jo is great, but thinks MJ is no longer alive,



I've been talking with Luna awhile ago.... :fear: She has no an opinion and she is not a believer, she has an open mind and know have many strange things that do not fit. She research and digs down deep the facts, creates videos and we formed our line of thinking, as I said in my previous post.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Hmmm don't those HAAA HAAAA's belong in the Michael CD debate thread!? lol
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Blue that 6 month rumor was just a line of nastiness to interject some more negativity in Michael's life story. It probably was started by that guy who wrote the unmasked book. It was just a fluke that Michael did die because as we all know Michael was not a sick man medically and if he did not bring Muarry into his house, but someone like Dr. Shaffer Michael would be with us today. I understanding your feelings, because one of the reasons I rarely looked at Michael's interviews in the 80s onward was because he appeared unhappy doing them. I guess he knew his words would be misconstrued. Because I avoided a lot of Michael related press coverage post Thriller, I insulated myself from a lot of negativity while Michael was alive and my thoughts about Michael were more positive.

Miche I think the beginning of this thread had dreams in it. I always thought this thread was a compilation of hoax, spirituality, mysticism, and dream theories. I don't think I will get involved in the internet dream interpretation as you suggested, because I suspect it might be generic in its application. I just think something like this needs to be done by a more spiritual, ethical, gifted person and should be conducted on a one to one basis and be specific to the individual person. I feel a whole dream should be taken in it's entirety and not be chopped up into little units like blue meaning XYZ, and green meaning ABC. I do not think, for example, blue means the same thing for everyone in a dream.

Bumper about the HAAAAA above ^^ did you see the video on Utube where Michael laughed Ha Ha, when the little kid who was dressed like him was coming down the escalator. It was during the Invincible signing. I think I will have my brother make a siggy of it for me to use so I do not have to type Ha, Ha all the time.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Blue that 6 month rumor was just a line of nastiness to interject some more negativity in Michael's life story. It probably was started by that guy who wrote the unmasked book. It was just a fluke that Michael did die because as we all know Michael was not a sick man medically and if he did not bring Muarry into his house, but someone like Dr. Shaffer Michael would be with us today.
It may have been a fluke... but, it was still creepy as hell that it happened exactly 6 months later as the rumor said. It made me VERY uncomfortable that the media who was always after him reporting this ish like a waitin game! Ian Halprin is the one who started the rumor and it was disgusting seein him on TV tryin to get credit for bein the first to predict it and ridiculous that no one pointed out he said MJ was dying of something totally different. He never once said Propofol. It's like when TMZ get's credit for first reporting his death. When in truth they were just guessin or most likely got their info from the drudge report website who actually reported it first.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

^^Sort of sick to go on tv to gloat that you first predicted someone's death!! What a sick world.

Whatever happened to the hoax theory that Michael climbed out of the ambulance or helicopter when he was being transferred? Do these people still think Michael is hiding somewhere?
 
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