Dangerous Incorporated
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THRILLER is said to be the last song MJ sung and it was in full dress rehearsal. Why isnt that on TII?
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WHY...does it seem like everything was caught on film?
- Thread starter xthunderx2
- Start date
Maria MJ
Proud Member
Whatever from the footage was NOT chosed to appear was either unimportant or TOO important.
Personally I lean towards the second.
And I sincerely hope the investigation has scanned every second of this footage.
There must be tons of info in there.
Personally I lean towards the second.
And I sincerely hope the investigation has scanned every second of this footage.
There must be tons of info in there.
MattyJam
Guests
How do we know this stuff wasn't being filmed for future use?? Remember in May 09 they released a brief three minute clip of the dancers auditioning. It all looked very pro-shot, I even remember the TV presenter commenting on the footage, saying that it looked like they were filming it as if they were going to make an X Factor audition-style programme out of it.
There were obviously plans for this footage, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there was something sinister going on behind the scenes.... It strikes me as somewhat far-fetched to claim that they were filming this because they knew MJ was about to die...
There were obviously plans for this footage, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there was something sinister going on behind the scenes.... It strikes me as somewhat far-fetched to claim that they were filming this because they knew MJ was about to die...
AEG was filming, not Michael's team, for the first time it was like that. With HD cameras That'a why the footage belonged to AEG not to Michael and that's why SONY had to pay for it to AEG.
This is also my problem with the film, that we are watching something that maybe Michael himself wouldn't like to be shown to the public.
No, it was dangerous, and thriller was not in full dress rehearsal
but he had one day, and guess what? they didn't film it..................
MJJ7777
Proud Member
Alooot of people have known MJ for quite a bit of time maybe longer than 20 years and they still have done some damage to MJ. I honestly dont trust anyone that was around MJ during the time of 6/25
Angel
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IF the AEG murder theory is true then I still don't see Ortega and Travis being a part of it. One because the more ppl are in, the harder it is to keep the secret and it's likely that they were caught in the middle again, IF it is true. They may have no idea of what the 'higher powers' are /were doing and if they did notice somehting( like the weight loss, grogginess, etc) they were probably advised not to talk about it.
Isn't it really weird how everyone involved in TII was gushing about how fit Mike is and how energetic, astronautbody BS when we can SEE it's not true?
I agree with you :yes: They could think - things would work out...It's likely, it was beyond their power to change course of events
TarinJade
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I was not initially going to view TII when it came out in the cinema. I made a rather last-minute decision to go, and while I wanted to try to enjoy myself, I also went with a critical eye, with everything I had read from the I.U. and This is Not It fresh in my mind. I wanted to try to find any clues that I could.
*Takes a deep breath* Okay, after viewing the movie three times (once in the cinema, and twice on DVD, with the option of rewinding). I am hard-pressed to find what many of you have seen. I understand that they only used two hours of film. I know that bits and pieces were spliced together from different rehearsals, with much of that footage from the last few days. I KNOW all of this. But, I see a man who was enjoying himself. I see a man who did put his heart into these ideas and concepts for the show. I see a man who loved being on the stage again, even if he wasn't happy about being signed to 50 shows. And, especially, I see a man who was full of love and never wanted to hurt anyone's feelings with a critical word. I don't see a man who was being bullied at rehearsals or wasn't being involved in the creative process.
If that makes me "blind," then so be it. I really just don't see any evidence of Kenny Ortega mistreating Michael, or having any kind of control over him. Now don't get me wrong, there are a few people that I distrust completely, and I pray that they are or have been investigated. One of those people is Randy Phillips. But I don't think that Kenny or Travis Payne are in that league. I think they were genuine friends to Michael, and that they mutually respected and understood each other.
Before June 25th, there was quite a lot of talk about Michael's appearance, his visits to Dr. Klein's office and what the reasons for them could be. I had some opinions about Michael's appearance at that time, but I kept them to myself because I saw how threads were degenerating into arguments, and I didn't want to take part in that.
YES, I thought Michael was too thin. He always looked underweight to me ever since the trial, but it was in varying degrees. It started to worry me when the rehearsals for the shows began. I was expecting him to put some weight on in preparation for it, and instead the opposite was happening.
I remember when the last pictures of him in public came out, it was about a week, week and a half before he died. He was wearing these tight pants that had leopard print on them. At the time, I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, his legs are AWFULLY thin, I don't think he's taking proper care of himself." It worried me a bit. His legs looked so skinny to me, like twigs.
I watched him with an eagle eye during TII. I didn't think that he looked so weak that he was unable to stand, or that he needed an IV for nourishment. Could he have performed all 50 shows? I really just don't know.
In regards to all the non-performance stuff that was filmed, like the production meetings and the little girl being made up:
kasume mentioned hearing about a making-of documentary coming out after the shows were done. I figured that was what it was for too. There was discussion on here about the rehearsals being filmed with Red cameras (HD) and a possible DVD being made of the concerts, like Live in Bucharest. I figured that rehearsal footage would be included as extras.
*This* is what doesn't sit right with me.
From what I did see in the movie, I can't possibly see how this show was going to be able to go in just two and a half weeks.
I have a brief background (but a background nonetheless) in Theatre. When I was performing in shows, we would typically start the process about three months in advance. Lines and musical numbers needed to be memorized. Costumes needed to be made and then altered accordingly. Sets needed to be constructed, etc, etc. Were our shows on the same scale as TII was? Of course not. We're comparing a show with a $25,000 budget (at most) to a show that cost millions. Did we use anything as complex as Lightman, costumes that lit up, or bulldozers that came out of the stage? No. But that is exactly my point here. We would never cut things so close to the show date, how could they? It stands to reason that a show on this scale should have been better planned out and started much earlier in advance than it was. When that footage of the dancer auditions was released, I thought, "Wow, they're just auditioning dancers now??" I really thought that it would have happened before or just after the press conference. And why is all the rehearsal footage from only June? We can tell from Michael's curly hair that it was from the last few days of May (at the earliest) to June 24th.
Another thing that I wonder about is all the rest of the TII footage that we did not see. I know that the agreement was for no negative footage of Michael to be shown in the movie. That, to me, begs the question "Was there a lot of negative stuff to be omitted, and what exactly was it?"
*Takes a deep breath* Okay, after viewing the movie three times (once in the cinema, and twice on DVD, with the option of rewinding). I am hard-pressed to find what many of you have seen. I understand that they only used two hours of film. I know that bits and pieces were spliced together from different rehearsals, with much of that footage from the last few days. I KNOW all of this. But, I see a man who was enjoying himself. I see a man who did put his heart into these ideas and concepts for the show. I see a man who loved being on the stage again, even if he wasn't happy about being signed to 50 shows. And, especially, I see a man who was full of love and never wanted to hurt anyone's feelings with a critical word. I don't see a man who was being bullied at rehearsals or wasn't being involved in the creative process.
If that makes me "blind," then so be it. I really just don't see any evidence of Kenny Ortega mistreating Michael, or having any kind of control over him. Now don't get me wrong, there are a few people that I distrust completely, and I pray that they are or have been investigated. One of those people is Randy Phillips. But I don't think that Kenny or Travis Payne are in that league. I think they were genuine friends to Michael, and that they mutually respected and understood each other.
Before June 25th, there was quite a lot of talk about Michael's appearance, his visits to Dr. Klein's office and what the reasons for them could be. I had some opinions about Michael's appearance at that time, but I kept them to myself because I saw how threads were degenerating into arguments, and I didn't want to take part in that.
YES, I thought Michael was too thin. He always looked underweight to me ever since the trial, but it was in varying degrees. It started to worry me when the rehearsals for the shows began. I was expecting him to put some weight on in preparation for it, and instead the opposite was happening.
I remember when the last pictures of him in public came out, it was about a week, week and a half before he died. He was wearing these tight pants that had leopard print on them. At the time, I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, his legs are AWFULLY thin, I don't think he's taking proper care of himself." It worried me a bit. His legs looked so skinny to me, like twigs.
I watched him with an eagle eye during TII. I didn't think that he looked so weak that he was unable to stand, or that he needed an IV for nourishment. Could he have performed all 50 shows? I really just don't know.
In regards to all the non-performance stuff that was filmed, like the production meetings and the little girl being made up:
kasume mentioned hearing about a making-of documentary coming out after the shows were done. I figured that was what it was for too. There was discussion on here about the rehearsals being filmed with Red cameras (HD) and a possible DVD being made of the concerts, like Live in Bucharest. I figured that rehearsal footage would be included as extras.
*This* is what doesn't sit right with me.
From what I did see in the movie, I can't possibly see how this show was going to be able to go in just two and a half weeks.
I have a brief background (but a background nonetheless) in Theatre. When I was performing in shows, we would typically start the process about three months in advance. Lines and musical numbers needed to be memorized. Costumes needed to be made and then altered accordingly. Sets needed to be constructed, etc, etc. Were our shows on the same scale as TII was? Of course not. We're comparing a show with a $25,000 budget (at most) to a show that cost millions. Did we use anything as complex as Lightman, costumes that lit up, or bulldozers that came out of the stage? No. But that is exactly my point here. We would never cut things so close to the show date, how could they? It stands to reason that a show on this scale should have been better planned out and started much earlier in advance than it was. When that footage of the dancer auditions was released, I thought, "Wow, they're just auditioning dancers now??" I really thought that it would have happened before or just after the press conference. And why is all the rehearsal footage from only June? We can tell from Michael's curly hair that it was from the last few days of May (at the earliest) to June 24th.
Another thing that I wonder about is all the rest of the TII footage that we did not see. I know that the agreement was for no negative footage of Michael to be shown in the movie. That, to me, begs the question "Was there a lot of negative stuff to be omitted, and what exactly was it?"
Samtkaninchen
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@ mnj1985
Good post and very similar to my thoughts.
Good post and very similar to my thoughts.
MicHil
Proud Member
this had bothered me since i saw the trailer and actually saw the movie.
all of the shots were taken like less than a week before June 25th.
and great quality and everything.
we've all seen rehearsals from all of his other tours... and yea i'll leave it at that.
all of the shots were taken like less than a week before June 25th.
and great quality and everything.
we've all seen rehearsals from all of his other tours... and yea i'll leave it at that.
mj_forever
Proud Member
that is probably why he wore the shades so much during rehearsals, to hide how he really was feeling. he said in an interview that for him, the eyes are the windows to the soul, and he didn't want to reveal so much of himself, that's why he wears shades a lot.
on the overall, he might not have been happy, but i'm sure there were also moments of happiness for the artist in him, such as when he smiled with his eyes closed after TDCAU? like he was happy about how it came out.
mj_forever
Proud Member
you know, Angel, that's what i get, too. that he was shy-uncomfortable. as if he was very careful that they don't see him as just being difficult. it could be that he wasn't entirely pleased with some things but went along to avoid arguments.
there was a long article shared in this forum, a first-person account of someone who was there at rehearsals, and who said they were scolding him for not coming to rehearsals often, and having Travis pick him up so he would be forced to come. many other things there, but i don't even know where to look as i've forgotten the thread title.
callmerose
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I think they probably had in mind to record some of the actually show performances at the O2 to release on dvd and filmed "making of" video to go with that. That is why there is so little good HD audio and video; it was just going to supplement video of the actually show performances.
earth child
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At the very least Kenny and Travis are guilty of neglect. If they thought Michael was in top form, physically fine to do this show, why is Kenny so worried when MJ is in that cherry picker that he tells him to hold on? MJ has been hanging off a cheery picker for years!
Why is Travis Payne practically holding onto MJ at the end of the Thriller number when he is on the raised platform? He won't even let him walk back to the wall by himself. He is worried MJ is going to fall! Now why would they think that if something hadn't happened?
Plus, you are right, there is no way AEG was ready to do that show. Could it be that they never really planned on it?
Maria MJ
Proud Member
Most likely. That's why the TII film announcement came so soon - 1 day before the memorial! They were all ready for it.
helena22
Proud Member
Yep.
This.
Shout-out to the threadstarter. Showbiz treats artists and entertainers like they own them. Michael reached the highest status an artist could reach in the industry, but it would be a serious mistake to think he controlled everything in everything he did. It's always a huge collaboration and involves a lot of money to be spent and gained, so yeah we have to keep in mind that he might have been taken advantage of.
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helena22
Proud Member
I agree. I mean he could not sleep, he was going through this severe insomnia. When you can't sleep but have to do all the work, you suffer from chronic fatigue. You can manage to get up and start working and keep working through the day, but you can't keep yourself focused to the degree you want. Sometimes, you feel hazy all day. Those who have had any type of insomnia can relate to that. And I don't try to read his facial expression to get any clue on his physical and emotional condition. He was a strong man and put on a brave face, like you said, even when he went through something.I heard Kenny was yelling at him. And in extra scenes, watch closely, does he seem happy? He can barely move on the set of Smooth Criminal (btw, I dont think he was ok that day), in one scene he can barely walk up the stairs to the stage, and in another one he can barely utter some words to Kenny who doesn't even listen!
The only days I think he was ok were the orange pants and the last 2 days. Even the ones in which he is laughing don't seem genuine, natural laugh imo
And somebody (don't wanna mention the name here) confirmed there was not a single moment he was happy, but he put on his brave face
TarinJade
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Well, it was Michael's first time trying out that particular cherry picker (for TII I mean, not his first time on one ever). If something should go wrong, like it suddenly jerks forward or whatever, Michael needs to be holding onto the bar so he doesn't fall over.
Maybe something had happened. I don't know if it was their first time trying out that stage lift.
But I'm sure this has been checked several times at least before Michael went there.
callmerose
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I disagree. Kenny is worried because they are trying out a new cherry picker and if Michael even got the slightest twist or sprain they would be up Sh*t Creek without a paddle. Travis is lining Michael up with the lighting. He isn't hanging onto him or preventing him from falling. He is the choreographer, that's what they do.
earth child
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callmerose
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I always believe whatever I wish and what my eyes tell me. Difference of opinion makes the world more interesting.
TarinJade
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This is what I came away with as well.
xo_lola_xo
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I believe AEG and that "doctor" and maybe a few others plotted his death. However, other people such as Kenny and say, the dancers, had NOTHING to do with his death. I truly believe Kenny loved Michael and he was his friend for years and he made a great job out of This Is It - a great job of showing the beautiful side of Michael.
This is much more serious than LAPD make it out to be. It involves money, racism, greed and force.
Michael had his heart in these concerts, he felt it was the time and he had a mission but I guess he wasn't happy with either some or a lot of the arrangements but I repeat - I blame AEG and some doctors for his death.
This is much more serious than LAPD make it out to be. It involves money, racism, greed and force.
Michael had his heart in these concerts, he felt it was the time and he had a mission but I guess he wasn't happy with either some or a lot of the arrangements but I repeat - I blame AEG and some doctors for his death.
earth child
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I will agree about the dancers but, for me, everyone else is a suspect. Anyone that has made money from MJ's death, other that his mother and kids are a suspect IMO.
Asedora
Guests
I do not trust Kenny at all. Did you watch TII? Kenny acts there like a black angel with evil smile on his face. You cannot trust ppl who were on AEF payroll. They all connected and Kenny if he was such a good fried of Mike had warn everybody that Michael was not feeling well, losing weight etc. Did he? No he didn't.
I found one article with another anonymous person saying Michael was in a great stress
SOrry if already posted.
it also says that Michael might have wanted to cancel shows and then do a one show and filming instead. Not a very reliable source, but worth checkin
Exclusive: Michael Jackson’s ‘extraordinary stress’ from London contract
Posted July 6, 2009 • 9:44 a.m.
Mohamed Hadid with his two children and Michael Jackson with his three children at Thanksgiving. Michael's children are Paris Michael Katherine, Michael Joseph Jr. and Prince Michael II.
Photo: Mohamed Hadid
Just 48 hours before his death, Michael Jackson was “in a high state of stress and emotional drama, fearing that he would never be able to complete the 50-concert run in London, and it would kill him.” That’s the inside word from one of the closest business friend’s of the late King of Pop who he turned to often when problems were at their darkest.
I am sworn to never release his identity. The night that the rehearsals were filmed and recorded at the Staples Center in L.A., Michael returned home “exhausted, highly strung, stressed and sweating profusely.” Click HERE for CNN video of the rehearsals on YouTube.
Michael reportedly said: “We did it, but we can’t go on. I’ll never make all 50. It will kill me.”
Michael’s confidante told me that he had come up with a last-minute plan to meet everybody’s needs. He wanted AEG to stage the This Is It show as a one-night world spectacular -- the largest one-time pop music event in history. It would be produced live from London, and it would be available in movie theaters, arenas and concert halls around the world simultaneously with immediate CD and DVD release
The concept was that Michael would still earn the money he desperately needed and AEG would make the same money in one night as they would from 50 shows.
Michael apparently believed it would work and everybody would be happy, but he was stressed beyond belief if AEG insisted on going with the original plan, according to his confidante. “He couldn’t sleep, he was exhausted, and he was more stressed than he’d ever been in his life,” I was told. “At the very moment he should have been able to get back on top of the world, he worried so much he wouldn’t be able to execute it, and disaster loomed. He thought this new plan was the best solution.”
But top business executives reportedly rejected what Michael proposed. His plan was nixed. He became even more stressed, and, according to my source, it was that stress and high-wired sleeplessness that drove him to seek relief in the illegally prescribed anesthesia that should have only been used in a hospital operating room.
http://www.vegasdeluxe.com/blogs/lu...ive-michael-jacksons-last-minute-bid-fight-e/
SOrry if already posted.
it also says that Michael might have wanted to cancel shows and then do a one show and filming instead. Not a very reliable source, but worth checkin
Exclusive: Michael Jackson’s ‘extraordinary stress’ from London contract
Posted July 6, 2009 • 9:44 a.m.
Mohamed Hadid with his two children and Michael Jackson with his three children at Thanksgiving. Michael's children are Paris Michael Katherine, Michael Joseph Jr. and Prince Michael II.
Photo: Mohamed Hadid
Just 48 hours before his death, Michael Jackson was “in a high state of stress and emotional drama, fearing that he would never be able to complete the 50-concert run in London, and it would kill him.” That’s the inside word from one of the closest business friend’s of the late King of Pop who he turned to often when problems were at their darkest.
I am sworn to never release his identity. The night that the rehearsals were filmed and recorded at the Staples Center in L.A., Michael returned home “exhausted, highly strung, stressed and sweating profusely.” Click HERE for CNN video of the rehearsals on YouTube.
Michael reportedly said: “We did it, but we can’t go on. I’ll never make all 50. It will kill me.”
Michael’s confidante told me that he had come up with a last-minute plan to meet everybody’s needs. He wanted AEG to stage the This Is It show as a one-night world spectacular -- the largest one-time pop music event in history. It would be produced live from London, and it would be available in movie theaters, arenas and concert halls around the world simultaneously with immediate CD and DVD release
The concept was that Michael would still earn the money he desperately needed and AEG would make the same money in one night as they would from 50 shows.
Michael apparently believed it would work and everybody would be happy, but he was stressed beyond belief if AEG insisted on going with the original plan, according to his confidante. “He couldn’t sleep, he was exhausted, and he was more stressed than he’d ever been in his life,” I was told. “At the very moment he should have been able to get back on top of the world, he worried so much he wouldn’t be able to execute it, and disaster loomed. He thought this new plan was the best solution.”
But top business executives reportedly rejected what Michael proposed. His plan was nixed. He became even more stressed, and, according to my source, it was that stress and high-wired sleeplessness that drove him to seek relief in the illegally prescribed anesthesia that should have only been used in a hospital operating room.
http://www.vegasdeluxe.com/blogs/lu...ive-michael-jacksons-last-minute-bid-fight-e/