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why wasnt michael given "whitney" treatment

xXMJJXx said:
if you were a true fan you would have learned something from Micheal and that is not to judge someone unless you knew them

you don't know anything about his illnesses or pains
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I am not judging him, but a if your telling me a 50 year old, just let things happen around him,

He got himself out a problem first but he got himself back in yes with the help of others but an addict cant just walk away and not look back they relapse.
 
trueiopian said:
:lol:

I don't think he would lie about something like this especially after his son just died.
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I can't believe you're finding any of this funny :(


Joe Jackson says in a new interview that "someone should pay" for the sudden death of his son Michael Jackson.
Joe told NBC's Jeff Rossen on the "Today" show that he wants justice to be served, following the ruling from the Los Angeles County Coroner that Michael's death was a homicide. "Someone should pay. ... Not just someone, but all of 'em should pay that's involved."
When asked if he was referring to the doctors, the father to the King of Pop responded, "I didn't say doctors. Everybody else that's involved."
The coroner's office announcement on Friday indicated that Michael died of "acute Propofol intoxication" and "other conditions contributing to death: Benzodiazepine effect." A Benzodiazepine is a sedative-hypnotic.
Joe said he was unaware that his son was receiving such powerful drugs. "I'm mad about it because I didn't know all this was going on," Joe said on the morning show. "I didn't know he was taking that type of medication. First time I ever heard about the drug."
He continued, "[We want] justice to be done. ... And that's what's being done."
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http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/78106/

This thread is full of references to pain and pain medications yet pain medications haven't even been implicated by the tox report as the official cause of death.
 
god I cant take this anymore sorry but I would rather fight with my 5yr old brother than to continue this

goodbye and good luck
 
praisemichael said:
Why MONEY!!! That's it!!

Whitney had Clive Davis who has been more of a father figure to her than her own father.

Why Michael ever went with Sony really baffles me.

When your Michael Jackson and you have two accusations of Child molestation under your belt, and you are worth more than any other artist they don't care.

It's too late for everything now, it's just a fight that was in a way obvious to happen that he would lose.

I think he had a drug problem but this whole "MJ Isn't responsible" rubbish, your life is your destiny you allow different people into your life. Yes he thought he was peter pan but he wasn't that naive when it came to business.

He let himself get into situations that could be easily avoided but he see's the good in people way to much. You have a guard and he let that guard down to many times. He had a heart of gold but he did pave somewhat a jagged way for himself.

I know we are fans and we stick up for him and a lot of the time accuse a lot of people for saying things when really they mean so much sense.

Michael had a part to blame for the situations he got in.

I don't want to sound pessimistic towards him, but your life is your own and he unfortunately led it not the best way.
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I have to agree. MICHAEL was WARNRD about it. And people who told him NO was let go or either he did not talk to them no more. I love MJ but MJ was told abut ignored the warnings from other doctors who denied him.
 
terrell said:
I have to agree. MICHAEL was WARNRD about it. And people who told him NO was let go or either he did not talk to them no more. I love MJ but MJ was told abut ignored the warnings from other doctors who denied him.
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exactly
 
Everyone just settle down!

I know it's something you don't want to hear..But Michael WAS addicted to perscription medication...But I ain't holding it against him. It's human nature to make mistakes. Drug addiction can happen to anyone! When you become dependant on a drug, thats an addiction...It's never easy to quit..Even an addiction to a legal substance is very difficult to stop...I know from personal experience..

I don't think you want to believe Michael was an adict because you probebly associate drug addicts with criminals. Thats not the case. Addicts are victims. Not criminals.
 
GameGirlAdvance said:
Everyone just settle down!

I know it's something you don't want to hear..But Michael WAS addicted to perscription medication...But I ain't holding it against him. It's human nature to make mistakes. Drug addiction can happen to anyone! When you become dependant on a drug, thats an addiction...It's never easy to quit..Even an addiction to a legal substance is very difficult to stop...I know from personal experience..
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so true but what makes Michael's more difficult to deal with is that a DOCTOR (S) gave it to him. These drugs were not on the streets or sold to him by people in the streets, they were given to him by DOCTORS who had LICENSES.
 
terrell said:
so true but what makes Michael's more difficult to deal with is that a DOCTOR (S) gave it to him. These drugs were not on the streets or sold to him by people in the streets, they were given to him by DOCTORS who had LICENSES.
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Thats why it's scary..Because it's THAT easy to get a hold of..
 
Irish Flower said:
This is slight different I'm afraid. Whitney was on crack cocaine.

Michael was taking PRESCRIBED medication, which he had to be on, the problem is that due to trauma and pain people can become addicted, especially if you have doctors who don't give a crap or watch how much they are giving. Now propofol is another situtation. This is where there is total negligence by doctors. The fact that Michael was injected so many times on the night he died is also another fact.

Whitney was going to a drug dealer and taking crack cocaine. Michael was going to doctors and getting prescribed medication. And doctors were also meant to be monitoring and looking after him. The night he died he was being administered by a doctor.

But I do feel that everyone let Michael down. When you have someone who has gone through so much trauma you should pay closer attention to them. It's the emotional and mental support that they need. I don't think Michael was getting that properly. And it would have had to be done ages ago.

I was watching a programme the other day where a girl who is now 31 was talking about post traumatic stress and depression. She stated that she had experiences in her childhood that led to these mental issues but did not speak to anyone, she didn't want to burden anyone. She was 19 and going to college when she started self harming. She told some professional at the college and got admitted to a psychiatric hospital. She was heavily medicated and left there for about a month, she said no one came to talk to her or discuss anything, then she signed a piece of paper which she didn't fully understand, knew it was for some treatment, but ended up getting electric shock treatment. This is only 12 years ago. She said that all she needed to do was talk. But the one thing she had was a glimmer of hope to get her out of it. She said you had to have that to survive.

Michael had so much pressure in many different ways. He was always the strong person, the caretaker role. I don't think he would want to burden anyone. He had his children to think about. He was doing a tour. Most importantly he didn't trust anyone. He did not have the environment or foundation unfortunately to reach out or go and get help if he had a problem. He certainly could not have done it with a tour and wanting to sort out some of his financial debts etc. It's just so sad.
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Thanks God, somebody said it. Great post. Thank you. PPL sometimes are starting new threads without even thinking.Geeeeez.
 
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MJJ2theMAX said:
well yeah i think thats the thing.. MJ had so many crazies around him.. he had become impossible to reach.. everyone of them leeching off him yet enabling him so he wouldnt shut them out
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mj did have a problem in 1993 started by the surgery because of the burns and the allegations made things worse, he also had a problem between 2000 and 2003 . after that we had no idea , as for the months before his death , the nurse lee has records , had performed tests on him throughout the four months she worked for him and he wa clean . yes we had other family members saying mj was on drugs and so called friends but they were not near mj during that period , they simply say he was drugged up to explain why they were out of his life , so nobody says mj isolated himself from them because they were a problem and they wanted things from him
instead they want people to believe mj had problems and they were the cure .



mjjfan4ever... i really dont see how you can think propofol is ok to use if done sensibly.. literally every doctor ive seen speak on tv has said it is total LUNACY to give propofol to treat insomia.. its INSANE!!! it can only be done "safely" in a HOSIPTAL.. and even if someone LIVED IN A HOSPITAL.. theres no WAY its ok to subject your body to such heavy drugs everynight
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well, many experts say it is a drug that makes wonders , really wonders if it is administered probably . yes indeed it is not a drug to treat insomnia , but mj was not using it to treat insomnia , he had insomnia severe insomnia since he was a kid touring with his brothers but he had tried everything and nothing worked , he felt propofol allowed him to get some sort of "sleep" , some sort of rest he badly needed . that's it. it had no side effects whatever it is not addcitive ..etc .yes it is very dangerous but if the precautions set by the manufacturor were followed mj should have never faced any problem using it and you better believe this will be the prosecution case , he used it before , he was perfectly fine becuase it was administered probably,but murray failed to follow the instructions , he did not work by the book and mj lost his life .
im not saying that MJ had def been on propofol for a while (murray may well have been lying about the 6 week thing)

but i'm assuming MJ had serious drug problems from all the info ive gathered from fans since June 25th... but i dont want to start another discussion about whether he had a drugs problem.. as theres plenty of discussions on that
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the way mj was taking propofol is not addictive at all, there is no physical dependency on propofol , mj suffered from insomnia on daily basis but when he had no tours , he would stay up reading ...etc but when he had tours he had obligations to meet , he had to get some kind of rest , and since nothing worked for him but propofol he had really no other option .

many seems to forget that propofol did not make him high (not the way mj was using it) it was not an addictive drug , it was very dangerous with absolutely no advantages whatever for a junkie . that's being said , it is really absurd for some people to think that mj was addicted to it and had other options to sleep but choose propofol . NO , he had no other options really .
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already. But Michael was a heavily guarded celebrities. It is damn near impossible to stage an intervention with him. You want be able to get anywhere near him with out him knowing. His farther and other family have said before they try to visit or talk with him was turned away by security. Alot of times he didn't want to be around his father. His situation is far more complex than others. He became addicted due to his serve burns. While I think other celebs became addicted cause they thought doing drugs was cool or was influenced by another to do so. Then there are doctors that say there helping him when they may have been purposely hooking him on drugs to keep him as a customer.

It's really sad that he had to deal with these kind of problems.:(
 
Oceangirl said:
MJJ2theMAX said:
it had no side effects whatever it is not addcitive ..etc .yes it is very dangerous but if the precautions set by the manufacturor were followed mj should have never faced any problem using it


the way mj was taking propofol is not addictive at all, there is no physical dependency on propofol

m) it was not an addictive drug .
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There is quite a bit of evidence, actually, that what you are saying here is just not true. I have NO insight into MJ's use or abuse of this drug.............but really, if we are going to talk about it, we should be factual with our information regarding the drug itself.

http://www.farleycenter.com/resources/articles/2009-07-07/spotlight-diprivan-and-propofol-addiction

http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/index.asp?ses=ogst&section_id=1&show=dept&article_id=7579

http://alowe.medbrains.net/2009/01/06/propofol-abuse/

http://www.csahq.org/pdf/bulletin/propofol_57_2.pdf
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GameGirlAdvance said:
Everyone just settle down!

I know it's something you don't want to hear..But Michael WAS addicted to perscription medication...But I ain't holding it against him. It's human nature to make mistakes. Drug addiction can happen to anyone! When you become dependant on a drug, thats an addiction...It's never easy to quit..Even an addiction to a legal substance is very difficult to stop...I know from personal experience..

I don't think you want to believe Michael was an adict because you probebly associate drug addicts with criminals. Thats not the case. Addicts are victims. Not criminals.
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propofol was not addictive drug , let's make that clear whether you like it or not and stop listening to Dr pinsky h wants people to believe mj was drugged up 24/7 and he was the cure , fuck him , he has never failed to say alie after another since mj's death .

as for the benzo drugs in mj's system , all of them prescribed by murray , the affidavit said that . Murray also admitted mj only took them because murray thought they were part of his plan to wean mj off his "addiction" to propofol . Murray admitted he tried to replace a non addictive drug with a combination of highly addictive drugs .

only three meds were found at mj's house that were not prescribed by murray . no one of them was a painkiller, only one was a benzo .

not even single drug was prescribed by two different doctors , so much for the doctor shopping , if he indeed was doctor shopping you would have at least found one drug prescribed by two or more doctors but nothing of that sort at all.

if indeed mj was addcited to benzo drugs then no one but murray should be blamed , why because from lee's records that problem did not exist before murrays coming , also nine bottles of the same drug were found in mj's bathroom prescribed by murray and he told them he only gave him benzo the last two days which is very absurd to say the least , he was hooking him to very addictive drugs to make him comeback and ask for more instead of propofol which murray knew mj was not addicted to and would have stopped taken as soon as the concerts were finished and his efforts would not have been needed anymore .
 
I don't understand why some of you are saying MJ was addicted to drugs. He was addicted to painkillers 16 years ago and got help for it. Who's to say he was addicted to them now?
 
nestacat said:
Oceangirl said:
There is quite a bit of evidence, actually, that what you are saying here is just not true. I have NO insight into MJ's use or abuse of this drug.............but really, if we are going to talk about it, we should be factual with our information regarding the drug itself.

http://www.farleycenter.com/resources/articles/2009-07-07/spotlight-diprivan-and-propofol-addiction

http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/index.asp?ses=ogst&section_id=1&show=dept&article_id=7579

http://alowe.medbrains.net/2009/01/06/propofol-abuse/

http://www.csahq.org/pdf/bulletin/propofol_57_2.pdf
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they are referring to people who keep injecting themselves over and over and over again , that's why i said the way mj was using it was not really addcitive .

if he was an addcit he would have asked to be reinjected many times becuase that's was the only way he would have felt all those " feelings" but clearly that was never the case .


Because propofol is such a short-acting substance, heavy abusers must inject it frequently to stay high—as many as 50 to 100 times during a using session is not unheard of and access to the drug is not a problem, as propofol is among the most widely used anesthetic agents in both hospitals and, increasingly, office settings.
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Or to put it more accurately, that recovery from sleep deprivation occurs both with sleep and, to some extent, with Diprivan exposure. Our clinical experience is that patients describe a short-lived sense of relief that is so reinforcing that, when it wears off, they try again and again.
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one important thing , MJ used it when the tour was approaching, he used it while he was performing on the history tour , so his "addiction" to propofol was linked always to a period where he had obligations to meet and sleeping was a priority to him . that's hardly an indication of physical dependency .
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nestacat said:
Oceangirl said:
There is quite a bit of evidence, actually, that what you are saying here is just not true. I have NO insight into MJ's use or abuse of this drug.............but really, if we are going to talk about it, we should be factual with our information regarding the drug itself.

http://www.farleycenter.com/resources/articles/2009-07-07/spotlight-diprivan-and-propofol-addiction

http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/index.asp?ses=ogst&section_id=1&show=dept&article_id=7579

http://alowe.medbrains.net/2009/01/06/propofol-abuse/

http://www.csahq.org/pdf/bulletin/propofol_57_2.pdf
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Although rare (mostly probably because of relative inaccessibility), it's true that Propofol has been misused by some people (mostly medical professionals) and it can be addictive in some people. However, the addictive aspect is generally in relation to the feelings of wellbeing experienced on emergence/awakening. That being the case, the manner in which it's abused for this purpose, is by injecting separate repeated bolus doses, with the repeated awakenings being the desired effect.

If Michael was addicted or abusing propofol to experience such a 'high' on awakening, then it simply wouldn't make any sense for him to be put to sleep for hours, to only experience one single 'high' upon wakening.
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Oceangirl said:
nestacat said:
they are referring to people who keep injecting themselves over and over and over again , that's why i said the way mj was using it was not really addcitive .

if he was an addcit he would have asked to be reinjected many times becuase that's was the only way he would have felt all those " feelings" but clearly that was never the case .


one important thing , MJ used it when the tour was approaching, he used it while he was performing on the history tour , so his "addiction" to propofol was linked always to a period where he had obligations to meet and sleeping was a priority to him . that's hardly an indication of physical dependency .
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That's just what I was trying to explain, but you did it much better! thanks
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Oceangirl said:
nestacat said:
they are referring to people who keep injecting themselves over and over and over again , that's why i said the way mj was using it was not really addcitive .

if he was an addcit he would have asked to be reinjected many times becuase that's was the only way he would have felt all those " feelings" but clearly that was never the case .






one important thing , MJ used it when the tour was approaching, he used it while he was performing on the history tour , so his "addiction" to propofol was linked always to a period where he had obligations to meet and sleeping was a priority to him . that's hardly an indication of physical dependency .
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*sigh*

as my first post clearly stated...........I have NO idea about MJ's use or abuse of this drug. Nor would I venture a guess. I am not arguing a dang thing about MJ here.................

THE POINT I WAS making is that you have stated, in multiple posts, that the drug is not an addictive drug...and that is just NOT TRUE. We should be as factual as possible with things we are discussing.

and, your post here is sort of confusing.............so, someone would only be addicted to this drug if they injected it over and over during a day? But if used for any certain length of time, with a skilled provider, only when there is "a period where [they] had obligations to meet and sleeping was a priority to [them]" (your words) then that is not addiction? I don't quite understand your reasoning here, especially given that the drug is not used for insomnia...nor am I interested in debating it further. But, thank you for replying. I was simply trying to provide factual information on the drug itself.
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some people are disgusting plain and simple and being ignorant is not helping at all.
 
I remember years ago during the trial, I mentioned that Michael was out-of-it during an interview. I went on to say that he must have been taking some powerful pain-killers or something, it just wansn't right.

I continued to point out the fact that if he was indeed using prescription drugs and it got out of hand, that his life could be in danger, just like my mothers. She had problems with prescription drugs, and died...it was from a heart-attack yet she did abuse the medication for years. Her doctor gave her what she wanted....sadly it made him look good, and caused her to deteriorate.

I got slammed for my concerns by many members of the board, and told not to discuss Mike's personal life or rumours.....now I see that some of what I was worried about was actually transpiring all along. Sooo unfair.
 
PANCOSNIC said:
No one is blaming Michael. Murray should pay for his actions but it should have never gotten to that point. Michael should have been referred for treatment for his addictions and his family should have been more proactive.
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I agree with you 100000%. Now you have Joe Jackson, Latoya and Jermaine, pop up every damn where their given a chance to talking about, WOULDA, COULDA, SHOULDA.. Well it's too damn late. They are so quick NOW to talk about all these no good people that was in Michael's life. Where were they when he was alive? And if you are going to say that the people that was around Michael didn't let his family get near him, then who's fault would that be. It is so damn sad.
 
wow, I can't believe some of the things I read here. I understand why the thread started, I understand some of us need to talk about this, and I think it is a good thing.

But some of us are getting carried away, and some answers are very disrespectful, towards Michael, his family, or other fans.

If Michael was addicted to prescription drugs, I believe he was, but I don't KNOW that. Well if he was, it is just something that happened to him, not something that he chose to do.

He was certainly not taking them to get high, but to try and help with physical pain, anxiety, insomnia, whatever the reasons were.

Prescription drugs addiction or dependancy is a medical issue in itself, and it is, in a way, different from illegal drugs addiction. Again, you don't start to take prescription drugs to get high, you take them to deal with other medical issues, that need to be dealt with. It's a vicious circle. If you stop taking these prescription drugs, your life will not suddenly get better, you will still have to deal with the reasons why you started taking them.

They are prescribed, so doctors are supposed to monitor this, and try to avoid a dependency and / or keep it under control. It seems it was not the case here, and talking about prescription drugs dependency, it happens to a lot of other less famous people.

To me talking about this should be useful to help and bring awareness to this problem, and try to find a better system so that it doesn't happen again, or less easily.

I live in Europe, so I am not aware of the media bashing MJ about being a drug addict. I don't watch TV that much either. To me we should just try and be honest about it, wether we think Micheal was addicted or not. There is no way you can bash someone for this reason, it is a medical problem.

Michael was the only one who could have made the decsion to stop it. You can not force someone out of it. Maybe he was in denial, maybe he thought it was not the right time, maybe he felt safe because he had doctors around... Maybe he just had his moments, and sometimes it was under control, and sometimes not. We don't know how it was.

Blaming Michael or the family is horrible. It is extremely difficult to help addicted people. Michael was a very independent person. They already know they failed to help. I think that's enough, I do not judge them about that, I know I would have probably failed also.

It takes a lot more, and to me , the persons who are really responsible are the doctors and the system that allowed that to happen.

Another thing that I think is important to say, is that Michael's death was ruled a homicide. When the toxicology report was released, it became clear that Michael's addiction, if he was addicted, has probably nothing to do with his death.
It is used in the doctors' defense, I just hope that it will not work.

I am reporting this thread
 
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