july 23, 2009 Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder.
The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill, a state of mind called malice, or malice aforethought, which may involve an unintentional killing but with a willful disregard for life.
Manslaughter is usually broken down into two distinct categories: voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.


Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. Distraught, Dan heads to a local bar to drown his sorrows. After having five drinks, Dan jumps into his car and drives down the street at twice the posted speed limit, accidentally hitting and killing a pedestrian.

Or

Michael asks for diprivan under the illusion it's safe because of previous doctors crimes when they should have given him real help.
Murray gives Michael Med's he is not supposed/trained to(this breaks the law..cause he is not supposed to do this outside the hospital). The Doctor Falls asleep, walks away, or gave him too dang much(This is the recklessness).

Mike has complications and dies and the doctor freaks out to save his butt cause he tries to cover up ish (maybe?) to make it look like he did something to help Mike but did not. (This is malice aforethought) -criminal intent; the thoughts and intentions behind a wrongful act (including knowledge that the act is illegal); often at issue in murder trials.

So Basically Dr Murray will get Manslaughter charges if they can prove all that without shadow of a doubt but every state got different rules.
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[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's unlawful to kill another human being, without malice. Voluntary manslaughter contemplates a killing that is without malice and committed upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion.(Taking 45 min to call police cause Murray try to save his own butt or he let mike die? cause afraid of being caught; you know they would ask questions and if mike dead who they gonna ask?, CPR done wrong on the bed also to make it look like he did something to help) In contrast to the felony-murder rule briefly discussed above, involuntary manslaughter contemplates a killing done in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony(Gave [/FONT]diprivan[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] to MJ but isn't this a felony if it's not done in hospital?) , or in the commission in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection, of a lawful act which might produce death.
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But technically Murray's act was not lawful cause he gave diprivan outside the hospital? hmmm?

So would that then make this 2nd degree murder? [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In a federal second degree murder charge to kill "with malice aforethought" means either to kill another person deliberately and intentionally, or to act with callous and wanton disregard for human life. Here, malice aforethought does not require that the individual charged hated the person killed, or felt ill will toward the victim at the time.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I tried answering your question but came upon a question myself. This is all oh so jacked what happened to MJ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I hope you can understand what I wrote and it's helpful. I know it's long but wanted to get everything in there.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God Bless:angel:
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Thank you for trying. Laws can be so confusing, I would think that there would be a difference if you let someone die, but I don't know, because you still wouldn't have intent with the initial act, ugh.

I think you may be right with 2nd degree murder, if we are right of course about the medication and all the details we have received so far. I hope they tell us the results of the toxicology report soon.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I am beginning to think that Murray attempted to sedate Michael with some drug long enough to rob him of a lot of money. He then tried to revive him but couldn't.

I heard on the news that Dick Gregory said that Michael told him, "they are trying to kill me to get the catalog". Now I don't know how true this may be, but if it is true, then who is THEY? Maybe Murray was paid to do this to Michael. After all, he would be vulnerable to a scheme like this because he was dead broke and in great need of money. Lots of money.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. :clapping: I've been really hesistant to post my conspiracy theory due to backlash. But my gosh yes. I believe this with my entire being. I may reconsider and post it after I run it by one of the mod's.

Murray is the pawn I strongly believe - and getting through all the layers to those truly responsible who conspired together is going to be difficult UNLESS one of the involved worms rats them out.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I haven't read this whole thread, I do intend to, but I just had to say.... speaking as a fan who's dealt with MJ going through blind hate without facts, I just have to say this about this here doctor... before I judge him, I'm going to try to love him.

.........but then when/if he's found guilty let the bashing begin :D

I tend to agree... but things don't seem to be looking favorable for the doctors in this case, whereas with Michael's case(s)... they couldn't find crap on him. Nothing. We'll just have to wait and see...
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

here's my beef...ur a cardiologist but u d on't know that cpr on a bed is wrong?

Because Michael was thin it would have been viable to do it with one hand behind his back. That is what my freind who has been a top notch anesthetist for over 30 years told me. Just saying...
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Because Michael was thin it would have been viable to do it with one hand behind his back. That is what my freind who has been a top notch anesthetist for over 30 years told me. Just saying...

I understand what you're saying, but it's not viable is it really..

If it's not working straight away, get him on the F'n floor.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

no he was 'dead' when they got there but they didn't call it. meaning it wasn't official. the doctor has to call the time of death. murray refused b/c he'd have to sign off on the death cert.

so he put it in the hands of the docs at ucla med. w/ a cardiac arrest, u only have a few minutes. after that, there's really no hope. EVEN IF u can get a pulse, the person is brain dead and too much damage to the heart.

he knew that. but didn't want to be the doc that called it.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Why didn't he want to call it? That confuses me, is it because at the time he simply just couldn't/wouldn't accept it?

Also, when Murray found him, he had a pulse right? So why didn't the CPR work? Cause he was on the f'n bed!

Sick! Sick! Sick!
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

no he was 'dead' when they got there but they didn't call it. meaning it wasn't official. the doctor has to call the time of death. murray refused b/c he'd have to sign off on the death cert.

so he put it in the hands of the docs at ucla med. w/ a cardiac arrest, u only have a few minutes. after that, there's really no hope. EVEN IF u can get a pulse, the person is brain dead and too much damage to the heart.

he knew that. but didn't want to be the doc that called it.

Yikes! He was dead when they got there? Why did the paramedics perform cpr on him for an hour then?

So really, we know nothing and Murray was probably lying and Michael was dead way before that? If so there would be "no" pulse or breathing and Michael wouldn't be warm. *sigh*
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

no he was 'dead' when they got there but they didn't call it. meaning it wasn't official. the doctor has to call the time of death. murray refused b/c he'd have to sign off on the death cert.

so he put it in the hands of the docs at ucla med. w/ a cardiac arrest, u only have a few minutes. after that, there's really no hope. EVEN IF u can get a pulse, the person is brain dead and too much damage to the heart.

he knew that. but didn't want to be the doc that called it.

:agree:

exactly... Brain dead in 4-6 min :( also just suprised they did not have that AED machine..the thing tells you exactly if CPR should be performed or shock to jump the heart.

But If Murray gave MJ too much and fell asleep or walked away..then who know's how long MJ was gone :(
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

when we talk about dick greory, I found that interview (it's from June, 26th):

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529131,00.html

an exzerpt:

GREGORY: I mean, we look at him as a normal human, and he wasn't. He had no childhood, none of the things that we normal folks have. And it got to a point in life, whenever there was a problem health-wise -- the last time I talked with you, his mother and father called me. And I went out and went home, and he grabbed me. And I could feel the fear. He said, Don't leave me, don't leave me. I said, When was the last time you ate? He said, I haven't. I haven't. I said, When was the last time you drank water? I haven't. I say, I'm taking you to the hospital today.

And I called some people to come out to help me, and he was scared to go to the hospital. And so I said, Here's what we'll do. We will drive in a car and we'll just pick a hospital. They won't even know you're coming to. We got there at 5:00 o'clock that day, in the evening, and at 5:00 that morning, they were still giving him (INAUDIBLE) And the doctor said had it been one more day, he would have died from dehydration.

VAN SUSTEREN: A do you think that the fame of being in the spotlight made him sort of that way, I mean, almost fearful, or was he that way before? I mean...

GREGORY: No, I think it was the trial. I think it was the trial...



What do you think about this?
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I am beginning to think that Murray attempted to sedate Michael with some drug long enough to rob him of a lot of money. He then tried to revive him but couldn't.

I heard on the news that Dick Gregory said that Michael told him, "they are trying to kill me to get the catalog". Now I don't know how true this may be, but if it is true, then who is THEY? Maybe Murray was paid to do this to Michael. After all, he would be vulnerable to a scheme like this because he was dead broke and in great need of money. Lots of money.

Thank you. I trust that if Dick Gregory said this it is true this what Michael said.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Thank you Toffy for your lucid post. The only knowledge we have is from the press. There are no facts in the theory that Michael Jackson was killed by Dr. Murray. But even if the police will charge him, we should be wait to the end of the possible trail. I was shocked that it's so easy for you, the fans of Michael Jackson, to make judgement knowing how does it feel to judge someone and not knowing everything. Michael was in the same position in the last years.

I understand that is easier to put all the anger in one person and make him or her the enemy. It's the part of a mourning. But be careful with your words. Maybe Dr. Murray is innocent. It's possbile, the same as the thought that he's not.
 
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Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

IF it turns out he did use it...the question is who told Michael in the first place that it was safe to use it? Michael knew nothing about this kind of stuff

$150 k month says why.


THIS. Right here... is disgusting enough for me to pass judgement. I'm sorry, but the doctor(s) knew Michael was an addict, BUT THEY DIDN'T CARE. They continued to 'load him up' anyway. NO INTEGRITY WHATSOEVER. IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

As far as the other 'theories' ... I will just wait to see how this all unfolds in time, because it will, heh.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Why didn't he want to call it? That confuses me, is it because at the time he simply just couldn't/wouldn't accept it?

Also, when Murray found him, he had a pulse right? So why didn't the CPR work? Cause he was on the f'n bed!

Sick! Sick! Sick!
i guess tmz is suggesting what the dr is telling the police is a lie. he was dead before they called. he was dead for quite awhile so cpr at that point was futile. they emt's wanted him to call it and he refused and used his aut hority as a dr to get them to take him to ucla med.

so now we got three stories....he collapsed in front of thekids, they did cpr on bed and then moved him to floor. he was found in his bed w/ a weak fem. pulse and dr did cpr for half an hr and then had staff call. and now mj was dead long before they called and cpr was done in vain and for no reason and dr refused to call it


could it be that whenh ecalled his staff in texas and told them to remove boxes from his storage unit that mj was already dead? that was at 930.....?:bugeyed
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

could it be that whenh ecalled his staff in texas and told them to remove boxes from his storage unit that mj was already dead? that was at 930.....?:bugeyed
unlikely I think... there's physicals signs showing up if someone is dead and doctors and also nurses in the hospital would have noticed right away I think... latest the coroner will know pretty close the actual time of death and I think that is what Murray would have considered... there's tests which can be performed... I really think that's not very likely that Michael was already dead around 9.30 am (that is the time you mean by 930 right?! lol sorry... my poor english)
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

oh im thinking if not dead then dying. and u can actually delay rigor and signs of death by messing w/ the temp of the room. and unless he actually ate something, it'll be difficult. it's amatter of hrs. they can'tget the exact. it's plus or minus a few hrs.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

oh im thinking if not dead then dying. and u can actually delay rigor and signs of death by messing w/ the temp of the room. and unless he actually ate something, it'll be difficult. it's amatter of hrs. they can'tget the exact. it's plus or minus a few hrs.
the whole case just doesn't look to me as if the Doctor really went thoughtfull or even with any plan through any of what happened...
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

it does to me. how random they go to the storage unit and two hrs later he's in cardiac arrest? the same dr who won't call the tod and make the hospital drs do it. what's he hiding and y?
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Anna Nicole Doc Expects Drug Cocktail in Michael Jackson's System

Los Angeles (E! Online) – Even though the toxicology results are due this week, it's not going to be easy to nail a doctor for manslaughter if it was an overdose of propofol that killed Michael Jackson, according to a pathologist all too familiar with the intricacies of toxicology.


"Propofol basically disappears [from the blood] within minutes," says Dr. Joshua Perper, the Broward County, Fla., medical examiner who spent weeks testing samples from Anna Nicole Smith's body before ruling her death the result of a prescription-drug overdose in 2007.


"Like Anna Nicole, my expectation in Jackson's case is that the toxicology would show a combination of drugs, where propofol will be present," the pathologist and author of the upcoming book When Doctors Kill told E! News.


"The problem in finding it in the body will depend on how long [Jackson] lingered before he became comatose. It breaks down very fast and can disappear or burn out in as little as two to four hours."


The longer the King of Pop lived after taking what could have been a fatal dose of propofol, the more likely it is that the evidence faded away.
Propofol can be found in other tissues, but that would make it hard to determine how much he took and whether it proved fatal and would take away a crucial piece of evidence required in prosecuting any doctor for manslaughter, much less murder, Perper said.


"To ask for more time to do testing, it stands to reason the medical examiner didn't have enough toxicology to explain the death from propofol and wants to look for something else, like a combination of drugs," he said, referring to the extra week the L.A. County Coroner's Office is taking before it releases the final autopsy report.


The main culprit in Smith's death, while she had a number of prescription drugs in her system, was the powerful sleep aid chloral hydrate.
Two of Smith's doctors and her companion, Howard K. Stern, have pleaded not guilty to felony charges of facilitating Smith with various substances.
Meanwhile, a family practitioner who has worked with nurse Cherilyn Lee, the nutritionist who says Jackson once asked her for Diprivan (propofol's brand name), tells E! News he immediately thought of Lee's story when he heard of Jackson's death.


"To be honest with you, my first reaction was 'God, I hope he did
n't get that Diprivan,' " Dr. Dwight James of Porterville, Calif., said.
James said that Lee called him for more information about propofol when Jackson requested it, and that he told her it was mainly used in hospitals and wasn't the sort of thing he would prescribe a patient to use at home.
"[Lee] communicated to [Jackson] that he didn't want to use the drug because it could kill him," James said. "She took the Physicians' Desk Reference to him—it has all the indications—but he still wasn't convinced."
—Reporting by Art Harris and Lindsay Miller


http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/200...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2Z1bGxuYnNwc3Rvcg--
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

yes it breaks down fast...explains the delay in calling 911

It's all so sickening. I have doubts about finding out the whole truth and wonder how much will be blocked.

When the tox reports come out, I think we'll know if it "feels" right or if something is being kept back. I hope so anyway.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

i guess tmz is suggesting what the dr is telling the police is a lie. he was dead before they called. he was dead for quite awhile so cpr at that point was futile. they emt's wanted him to call it and he refused and used his aut hority as a dr to get them to take him to ucla med.

so now we got three stories....he collapsed in front of thekids, they did cpr on bed and then moved him to floor. he was found in his bed w/ a weak fem. pulse and dr did cpr for half an hr and then had staff call. and now mj was dead long before they called and cpr was done in vain and for no reason and dr refused to call it


could it be that whenh ecalled his staff in texas and told them to remove boxes from his storage unit that mj was already dead? that was at 930.....?:bugeyed

:(

I agree with resonnant, we may never know the WHOLE truth, but on here we will pretty much figure it out whether they hold some back or not. I just hope that Michael gets justice.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

we'll find out. when is the issue. maybe when the children are older. maybe if someone from the family speaks out or when they file a wrongful death suit. we'll c
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

We need to make a vow that we won't give up until we find out the truth!!

You guys on here are so clever, I really don't know what I'd do without reading all the threads on here! You all just seem to find out everything and anything :)
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

if tmz are correct and lets just say all their past reports are right interms of getting leaks from the police. then it seems as if the police are looking at going after murray inregards to the delay in calling. the lies of there been a pulse when he found him etc. bascially connecting the dots to say murray covered it up ontop of giving him the drug.like what we have said all along.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

well the delay wouldn't mean much. it was a full cardiac arrest. he had about a 10% chance in the first place. it was his actions before and after said cardiac arrest that will come in to play.

as well as his prior behaviours with regards to medicines. he'snot allowed to prescribe meds.....so he must've gotten them elsewhere....maybe klien.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

ell the delay wouldn't mean much. it was a full cardiac arrest. he had about a 10% chance in the first place. it was his actions before and after said cardiac arrest that will come in to play.
yeah not mean much interms of mj but interms of covering something up during those 30 mins after he found him ontop of tmz bringing up the morning visit to the lock up. if u take what tmz are saying as fact interms of things being leaked to them u can see where its going
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I'm going to post something in the conspiracy theory thread soon and would love it if anyone who wants to adds to it. It's total speculation mixed with fact but if I don't get it out I'll burst. I'm still working on it. I think it would be wonderful if we had a document with time-lines and truths/lies incorporated.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

lemme go check.

and em, i believe he was stalling to figure out what to say/do and to rid of anything incriminating there and in texas
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray -- Manslaughter Target OFFICIAL

uugh I feel sick...now I have to wake up every morning not only realizing that he's dead but also with the thought that somebody killed him
this is too much to bear I'm gonna cry again

I know what you feel because I feel the same way! It hurts so badly...I want to scream....:(:(
 
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