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MJ Wasnt Healthy

  • Thread starter Dangerous Incorporated
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vncwilliam said:
not every performer is like that. we can't determine Michael by others. Michael had such massive success that people were exploiting him. it's not hard to determine he might want to get away from it. he was away from it for a long time to raise kids. he could have been trapped. so we can't determine he killed himself trying to get back on stage. not everybody has the same reaction to a thing. we can't keep making the mistake of saying we knew MJ, because we didn't. even if we had relatives that did the same thing.
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Watch @ 2:36, vncwilliam.



I promise I didn't just make that all up at the top of my head. Listen to Michael speak. Listen to his words. Let him speak for himself. I can't speak for him. I was just trying to explain what it's like for people who need the stage that much, and how badly they would work themselves for that moment on stage. I wish I could explain it. It's like being stranded in a desert with no food or water, and someone offers you the food and water, but before you can have it you have to work for it. You have to build castles out of sand and run and jump and work your body to the point of exhaustion. But it's all worth it to get to that food and water.

Now I can't claim to know what was going through Michael's mind. But seeing him talk about what he felt on stage, I'm almost sure that he suffered a little when he wasn't performing. Come on... sleeping with spotlights on him? I know a real stage lover when I see one. Hell, I've lived with them! They work and they work and the performance is their reward. Performers don't work for a pay check. They work for the cheers, they work for the applause. That is their reward. Michael seemed to be the kind of artist that didn't care what it took or how much it costed, he was going to give the best show possible. I don't know if you could understand it if you haven't lived with it. Entertaining isn't a job, it's a passion. It's a part of their make up. Performers have an urge to perform. They can't help it. It's in their soul.
 
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StephluvsMJ said:
Watch @ 2:36, vncwilliam.



I didn't just make that all up at the top of my head. Listen to Michael speak. Listen to his words. He was addicted to the stage.
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He used that stage visualization to create, because he off all people can visualize a certain desired outcome with his stage experience. At that point he can create with the stage in his head.
I often wonder how much he was caught between worlds. As an artist that he was, he didn't just stop creating in his head. It keeps on creating- and when an artist of that caliber doesn't find an outlet, it becomes difficult.

Why Bashir didn't incorporate such essential points into his documentary remains a mystery to me.


He could create just by visualizing the stage and audience reaction.
IMHO he was trying to communicate who he was after an active stage career. Movies, directing, song writing, you name it. He might not have been able to read or write sheet music- but he could have held old-fashioned performance Master Classes that would be a million times more interesting than conventional teaching. He could breathe live into any kind of music.

He was 50, no 30, that's a huge difference. He didn't have to prove to me that he "still had it", he's proven that for 40 years.
But of course, 50 shows, that's what sells and that's the problem.

Anybody who performs on a stage wants his last moments on a stage to be the best you could be remembered for. I do think that there might have been an internal struggle to redefine himself as an artist and I'm not sure that dancing 50 shows was who he was as an artist at that point. He had 3 children, was writing music that apparently had nothing to do with the "play it safe" set list of TII.

I often wonder if TII was the result of a huge internal struggle compounded by massive expectations from old sides. AEG, fans, press, everybody. That's a lot of pressure that most of us will never feel.

Just listening to him say "the final curtain call", you can fee; the raised eyebrows behind the glasses, that kind of pressure and expectation from every corner of the globe could crush lesser individuals in just a few years.

And I'm sure it contributed.
However the coroner's report stated he passed by acute propofol intoxication aided by benzodiazepine effect. That's very mundane, his actual death was ruled "death by the hands of another", sometimes it seems that fact is being forgotten.
 
StephluvsMJ said:
Watch @ 2:36, vncwilliam.






I promise I didn't just make that all up at the top of my head. Listen to Michael speak. Listen to his words. Let him speak for himself. I can't speak for him. I was just trying to explain what it's like for people who need the stage that much, and how badly they would work themselves for that moment on stage. I wish I could explain it. It's like being stranded in a desert with no food or water, and someone offers you the food and water, but before you can have it you have to work for it. You have to build castles out of sand and run and jump and work your body to the point of exhaustion. But it's all worth it to get to that food and water.

Now I can't claim to know what was going through Michael's mind. But seeing him talk about what he felt on stage, I'm almost sure that he suffered a little when he wasn't performing. Come on... sleeping with spotlights on him? I know a real stage lover when I see one. Hell, I've lived with them! They work and they work and the performance is their reward. Performers don't work for a pay check. They work for the cheers, they work for the applause. That is their reward. Michael seemed to be the kind of artist that didn't care what it took or how much it costed, he was going to give the best show possible. I don't know if you could understand it if you haven't lived with it. Entertaining isn't a job, it's a passion. It's a part of their make up. Performers have an urge to perform. They can't help it. It's in their soul.
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if u say some things, and i determine i know u, u would be offended. i heard what u said, and i heard what Michael said on that video. but Michael also showed a pragmatic side, by getting his business affairs together. this is something that James Brown and other performers who loved the stage, didn't do. he spent a lot of time offstage raising his kids, and it was the people who begged him to perform, after that time. i'm not saying MJ didn't love performing. but i'm not going to claim to know him enough to say he killed himself, that way. but, at least, u admit u didn't know him. none of us did.

he said that a lot of things made him happy. God. children, for example. we can't just assume that he would die, if people stopped loving him on the stage. he said he had peace inside, in a lyric in a song. usually, having that peace equates to not needing anything else. so, he said a few things. but we can't determine to know him, as u and i, now, both said.

remember also, that Mr. Bashir is navigating those questions in a manipulative way. and we all know how that ended up.

Michael said he loves to sleep with the lights on. so, he may have slept with them on in his room. we can't determine to know him, by that.

i also happen to have a passion, so u don't know me. i know what passion is.

again, i say, he showed pragmatism. and if we are also going to go by what he said, he also said he didn't want to be run into the ground, like James Brown, performing. so, he went in both directions, according to things he said. and he said that about James Brown, voluntarily, without a manipulative Bashir, questioning him. so, we can't claim to know him just by what he said. again i say, people begged him to perform during that time he raised his kids. he didn't beg them. they begged him.

by then, he and his pragmatism had set up himself and his kids for life, without the need to perform. and that follows what he said about James Brown. so though he had finished rehearsing when he died, we still can't make a determination that he killed himself performing. that's called drawing a conclusion. we just don't know.

i know he showed a passion for performing. but he also showed a passion for the business. (that is not me saying he had a passion for money. i'm not saying that. i'm saying he had a passion for keeping his kids secure) and a passion for his kids. it looks that way, to me.
 
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StephluvsMJ said:
Watch @ 2:36, vncwilliam.



I promise I didn't just make that all up at the top of my head. Listen to Michael speak. Listen to his words. Let him speak for himself. I can't speak for him. I was just trying to explain what it's like for people who need the stage that much, and how badly they would work themselves for that moment on stage. I wish I could explain it. It's like being stranded in a desert with no food or water, and someone offers you the food and water, but before you can have it you have to work for it. You have to build castles out of sand and run and jump and work your body to the point of exhaustion. But it's all worth it to get to that food and water.

Now I can't claim to know what was going through Michael's mind. But seeing him talk about what he felt on stage, I'm almost sure that he suffered a little when he wasn't performing. Come on... sleeping with spotlights on him? I know a real stage lover when I see one. Hell, I've lived with them! They work and they work and the performance is their reward. Performers don't work for a pay check. They work for the cheers, they work for the applause. That is their reward. Michael seemed to be the kind of artist that didn't care what it took or how much it costed, he was going to give the best show possible. I don't know if you could understand it if you haven't lived with it. Entertaining isn't a job, it's a passion. It's a part of their make up. Performers have an urge to perform. They can't help it. It's in their soul.
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Just look at him in that Video...God I miss him..:boohoo: I agree Michael had passion for performing..Hell....he became the music...each and every instrument. He was absolute genius.
 
Well I can't disagree with you vncwilliam. I can understand what you're trying to tell me. I didn't mean to insinuate that MJ killed himself preparing those shows. He died from Dr Murray. Again, I don't know what Michael was thinking, I can only speculate. He always said he loved the stage. He said he felt most comfortable there, so comfortable that he wished he could sleep up there. If he says he loves the stage, I don't know why I'm expected to have doubt over whether he really does or not. If he says he does, he does. Who am I to question his honesty when he says he loves it? I can see he loves the stage when I watch him perform. He doesn't even need to say it. I can see it with my own eyes. I can see he loves God when he speaks of him. I can see he loves children when he's around them. He doesn't even need to say these things. We can see it for ourselves.
 
Yes, Michael said when he'd go through long periods of time offstage, he would start dancing and singing all over his house, that he would go crazy. :)

I don't blame him. He has God's vibrant spirit running through him.
 
No one can deny that MJ was in command when he was performing TII.:wub:
even the best editing in the world couldnt deny that Michael was in control. :clapping:
He said that he didnt eat when he was on tour, He had a dancers body and was the weight he wanted to be. God Bless him.
 
Who are you to determine how Michael may have felt mentally? The issues he had were issues commonly found in men around his age, that's the facts anyway. In order to know how he felt inside, we would have to be Michael himself, we're not, therefore everything else is nothing more but speculation...And these shows DID NOT kill Michael Jackson.
 
Okay, I'm going to try to give my two cents here, despite all that has been said already.
I think there are different factors here, that should not be confused with each other.

First off, before going any further, the only thing that killed him was the actions and conseqent negligence of Conrad Murray. No single condition he had should have killed him. The autopsy report states that and I think it is something we can all agree on.

Despite that, and even though he looked physically in control in TII but emotionally vulnerable at times. Not all the times, just at times: "we'll get there" after rehearsing WBSS, the earpiece bothering him. To me there were clearly moments of inner turmoil, anxiety and stress, but he really tried to hide it from the dancers and everyone he did not know very well. ( This is my observation, from my point of view).

I think he was very thin. Too thin to complete all 50 shows. There would have been shows cancelled. But being too thin for performing like a top athlete does not necessarily equal being unhealthy!

He did have some issues, like the chronic lung inflammation, some arthritis and artheriosclerosis in the arteries in both legs, he took eyedrops for glaucoma ( Latanoprost - three empty vials were found according to search warrants), but nothing he'd die from. Also, he did not have organ damage, had a strong heart and for a 50 year old male he was in a good shape.

Conclusion: Being thin is not the same as being unhealthy. He did have medical issues that required medical attention when they flared up or gave symptoms, but he was so determined and strongwilled to make TII spectacular and unforgettable, not in the least because he wanted to make sure his messages would be heard and understood, loud and clear. I have so much respect for his work ethics!!!

I would really like to know why he lost so much more weight in those last months, when he was already rather thin. There are several explanations I can think of, but they would all be speculative in nature.
Some possibilities:
- chronic pain ( from lupus flares ?) decreases your appetite
- fear of being poisoned, so only eating when with people he trusted
- simply forgetting to eat because of the creative processes that overtook him
- ephedrine was administered to him, with or without his consent - it is also known as an appetite suppresant, something he definitely did not need!!
- a combination of some or all of the above factors perhaps ?
 
MJ Wasn't Healthy

Why does the autopsy reports not say that?
 
kasume said:
MJ Wasn't Healthy

Why does the autopsy reports not say that?
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Doesn't the autopsy report say what ? Not healthy you mean ? Too thin ?
Autopsy reports are meant to be as objective as humanly possible. We draw our own conclusions based on the information presented to us.
But again, no matter what ailments he had, no matter his weight - that would not have killed him. The doctor did.

The autopsy does say that there's osteoarthritis in his lower spine and some fingers and atherosclerotic plaques in the arteries of both legs. As for the glaucoma - the eyedrops were mentioned on a search warrant dated August 27th, 2009, page 3 of 14. If you want I can e-mail it to you if you PM me your e-mail address. I have saved all relevant documents on my harddrive in case they go "missing".
 
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I thought I read the plaque in his legs was mild. I also thought I read that the drops he head couldbe treated for glaucoma and hair loss. The autopsy doesn't say he had glaucoma. We don't even know if they were his, right? I didn't hear of him having this. Maybe we can get more light shed on this?
 
ginvid said:
I thought I read the plaque in his legs was mild. I also thought I read that the drops he head couldbe treated for glaucoma and hair loss. The autopsy doesn't say he had glaucoma. We don't even know if they were his, right? I didn't hear of him having this. Maybe we can get more light shed on this?
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Indeed, the drops might not have been his. Because there are also American Spirit cigarettes and cigarettes papers found and I would have thought that these would not have belonged to Michael.
African-Americans are at a higher risk of developing glaucoma.
Source: http://www.glaucoma.org/learn/are_you_at_risk.php

On the other hand, prolonged use of corticosteroids does increase the risk of getting glaucoma. In addition to that glaucoma and cataracts occur more often in lupus patients, either because of Raynaud's, vasculitis or Sjogren's.

Source: http://www.itzarion.com/lupussecondary.html#eyeconditions

Furthermore, medical marijuana is known to lower intraocular pressure and there was also some stale marijuana found at the scene.

Source: http://www.glaucoma.org/treating/medical_marijua.php

We will never know for sure, unless it comes up at Murray's trial.

Latanoprost is used for : http://eyes.emedtv.com/latanoprost/what-is-latanoprost-used-for.html
This last link gives more information on Latanoprost. It says there that latanoprost is not suitable for chidren. It does not mention any specific off-label uses other than glaucoma.

There were three empty vials of latanoprost, so it was something taken for an extended period of time by "someone" in the Holmsby Hills mansion.
Glaucoma is a very serious eye condition that will lead to blindness if left untreated. We can see from the date of certain prescribed medications that Michael wasn't always very compliant in his medicine taking. Hardly the addict, but that is an entirely different story.
The latanoprost was taken religiously, or so it appears at least.

Indirectly the very high amounts of propofol in his eyes also support the theory of glaucoma.
In glaucoma the tearducts are narrowed thereby making it harder for fluids to leave the eye.
I'm not sure about this however, and when I googled this, it is hard to read and understand the medical information out there.

I'm inclined to believe Michael did have glaucoma, unfortunately.
 
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MJJLaugh said:
Latanoprost is used for : http://eyes.emedtv.com/latanoprost/what-is-latanoprost-used-for.html
This last link gives more information on Latanoprost. It says there that latanoprost is not suitable for chidren. It does not mention any specific off-label uses other than glaucoma.

There were three empty vials of latanoprost, so it was something taken for an extended period of time by "someone" in the Holmsby Hills mansion.
Glaucoma is a very serious eye condition that will lead to blindness if left untreated. We can see from the date of certain prescribed medications that Michael wasn't always very compliant in his medicine taking. Hardly the addict, but that is an entirely different story.
The latanoprost was taken religiously, or so it appears at least.

Indirectly the very high amounts of propofol in his eyes also support the theory of glaucoma.
In glaucoma the tearducts are narrowed thereby making it harder for fluids to leave the eye.
I'm not sure about this however, and when I googled this, it is hard to read and understand the medical information out there.

I'm inclined to believe Michael did have glaucoma, unfortunately.
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This reminds me that Ian Halperin said that Michael was going blind....

And some items that were found in that search warrant is bizarre :doh:, so I do not trust blindly in the search warrant (and far less in the autopsy report). :ph34r:

-_-
 
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When did Michael ever have an eye problem? Besides natural decreasing vision.

And IF this is true, then WHO would know Michael was going to go blind and die in the next six months?? and die because of a drug overdose? (on the doctor's part)

how would ian gain all this private medical knowledge about michael if it were true? But they also said Michael had a rare lung disease. I haven't heard about that yet, or maybe I missed it?
 
I don't know hun. I guess we will see. Maybe he was having problem with his eyes. Maybe that is why he was wearing glasses so much in his later years. You would think the autopsy would say that. I doubt is was like Halperin said though. SO I don't think we have to worry about that Kasume. Don't let it bother you. it is probably just an exxagerrated story. As was the rare lung condition. They were probably variations of the truth.
 
anyone who doesn't wear sunglasses in southern california should see a psychiatrist. i really think halperin was just picking on Michael. and regular glasses could've very well been just an accessory and to protect MJ's eyes from dust.
 
MJJLaugh said:
He did have some issues, like the chronic lung inflammation, some arthritis and artheriosclerosis in the arteries in both legs, he took eyedrops for glaucoma ( Latanoprost - three empty vials were found according to search warrants), but nothing he'd die from. Also, he did not have organ damage, had a strong heart and for a 50 year old male he was in a good shape.
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Could you please post a link to the search warrant/latanoprost info - can't seem to find it. Thanks
 
honeysucklejasmine said:
Could you please post a link to the search warrant/latanoprost info - can't seem to find it. Thanks
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It's on the etonline website. All the search warrants, the autopsy report, burial and memorial booklets are all still there.

It's the article called "Entertainment Tonight helps unseal key Jackson documents". Just click on the link to view the document. It's page 3 of 14 that mentions the 3 vials of Latanoprost Plus Solution Liquid.

Source: http://www.etonline.com/index.html?page=21&tag=michael-jackson
 
MJJLaugh said:
Indeed, the drops might not have been his. Because there are also American Spirit cigarettes and cigarettes papers found and I would have thought that these would not have belonged to Michael.
African-Americans are at a higher risk of developing glaucoma.
Source: http://www.glaucoma.org/learn/are_you_at_risk.php

On the other hand, prolonged use of corticosteroids does increase the risk of getting glaucoma.
Click to expand...

If the drops do turn out to be MJs then I agree with you, he most probably had glaucoma (it's use for hair loss is experimental and from what I know there is no evidence base to allow it to be recommended as a treatment for alopecia as things stand currently).

Glaucoma is the name given to a group of conditions (4 main types) which can adversely affect sight by damaging the optic nerve, usually, but not always, as a result of a pressure build up within the eye. This is because fluid produced inside the front of the eye is not able to be adequately drained away.

I suspect MJ had open angle/chronic glaucoma (or possibly, but less likely, glaucoma as a result of steroid use for lupus). More info here with a diagram to explain the anatomy of the actual problem in the 'Causes' section:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Glaucoma/Pages/Introduction.aspx

The problem is not related to tears/tear ducts as with glaucoma the problem is inside the actual eyeball itself.
http://www.healthyeyes.org.uk/uploads/pics/Tearduct_01.jpg

Latanoprost drops treat the condition by increasing the fluid drainage from inside the eye thus reducing the internal pressure within the eye and on the optic nerve.


In addition to that glaucoma and cataracts occur more often in lupus patients, either because of Raynaud's, vasculitis or Sjogren's.

Source: http://www.itzarion.com/lupussecondary.html#eyeconditions
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Lupus isn't directly associated with cataracts or glaucoma. From the article you quoted if lupus patients have a secondary condition eg Raynauds/Vasculitis/Sjogrens, the eyes can definitely be affected but more commonly by other means which I won't go into here (!) not usually by glaucoma/cataracts.


Indirectly the very high amounts of propofol in his eyes also support the theory of glaucoma.
In glaucoma the tearducts are narrowed thereby making it harder for fluids to leave the eye.
Click to expand...

The vitreous of the eye was tested (it is commonly tested at autopsy to assess drug levels if relevant to the cause of death) and found to contain propofol. This would have come from the drug diffusing through from the blood circulation at the back of the eye into the vitreous fluid.
http://www.nei.nih.gov/health/eyediagram/

There is no physical connection between the vitreous fluid, the tearducts or the drainage system affected by glaucoma so the propofol level in the vitreous doesn't confirm or disprove the presence of glaucoma.

Hope that helps :flowers:
 
honeysucklejasmine said:
If the drops do turn out to be MJs then I agree with you, he most probably had glaucoma (it's use for hair loss is experimental and from what I know there is no evidence base to allow it to be recommended as a treatment for alopecia as things stand currently).

Glaucoma is the name given to a group of conditions (4 main types) which can adversely affect sight by damaging the optic nerve, usually, but not always, as a result of a pressure build up within the eye. This is because fluid produced inside the front of the eye is not able to be adequately drained away.

I suspect MJ had open angle/chronic glaucoma (or possibly, but less likely, glaucoma as a result of steroid use for lupus). More info here with a diagram to explain the anatomy of the actual problem in the 'Causes' section:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Glaucoma/Pages/Introduction.aspx

The problem is not related to tears/tear ducts as with glaucoma the problem is inside the actual eyeball itself.
http://www.healthyeyes.org.uk/uploads/pics/Tearduct_01.jpg

Latanoprost drops treat the condition by increasing the fluid drainage from inside the eye thus reducing the internal pressure within the eye and on the optic nerve.



Lupus isn't directly associated with cataracts or glaucoma. From the article you quoted if lupus patients have a secondary condition eg Raynauds/Vasculitis/Sjogrens, the eyes can definitely be affected but more commonly by other means which I won't go into here (!) not usually by glaucoma/cataracts.



The vitreous of the eye was tested (it is commonly tested at autopsy to assess drug levels if relevant to the cause of death) and found to contain propofol. This would have come from the drug diffusing through from the blood circulation at the back of the eye into the vitreous fluid.
http://www.nei.nih.gov/health/eyediagram/

There is no physical connection between the vitreous fluid, the tearducts or the drainage system affected by glaucoma so the propofol level in the vitreous doesn't confirm or disprove the presence of glaucoma.

Hope that helps :flowers:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the clear explanations. I really appreciate it!
 
kasume said:
When did Michael ever have an eye problem? Besides natural decreasing vision.

And IF this is true, then WHO would know Michael was going to go blind and die in the next six months?? and die because of a drug overdose? (on the doctor's part)

how would ian gain all this private medical knowledge about michael if it were true? But they also said Michael had a rare lung disease. I haven't heard about that yet, or maybe I missed it?
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ginvid said:
I don't know hun. I guess we will see. Maybe he was having problem with his eyes. Maybe that is why he was wearing glasses so much in his later years. You would think the autopsy would say that. I doubt is was like Halperin said though. SO I don't think we have to worry about that Kasume. Don't let it bother you. it is probably just an exxagerrated story. As was the rare lung condition. They were probably variations of the truth.
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I think it is as ginvid says - an exagerrated story. Tabloids - as Caroline Graham said in 'Tabloid Truth' take a shred of truth & make a story. Glaucoma can indeed eventually cause blindness, but MJ wouldn't be
blind in 6 months. My husband has had glaucoma for 25 years & is still not anywhere near blind. He takes drops everyday though & there is no pain. Internet says it is more common in African Americans as MJJLaugh said. If anyone saw the drops they could have taken the fact that it can cause blindness if left untreated.

Now who told Halperin he was to die in 6 months? That was wierd. I would think he had to have sources for his publisher.

http://www.glaucoma.org/learn/glaucoma_facts.php
Four Key Facts About Glaucoma

Glaucoma is a leading cause of blindness

Glaucoma can cause blindness if it is left untreated. And unfortunately approximately 10% of people with glaucoma who receive proper treatment still experience loss of vision.
 
In KF, Michael Bush, Dennis Tompkins interview the subject of MJ health, missed rehearsals, being cold came up again. Pearl Jr said somewhere that she noticed MJ not going to rehearsals. This is from this blog by Bonnie Cox(I love her blog & think its very thoughtful):

http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/2010/06/michaels-year-personal-testimony.html

I was encouraged that all three mentioned on national television the condition of Michael, in stark contrast to what AEG’s Randy Phillip’s, Director and producer Kenny Ortega and Travis Payne had testified to.

According to all three of them, Michael was extremely thin and was not sleeping. He was stressed and unhappy about the number of concerts they had forced on him, he had agreed to only 10. Michael Lee Bush testified to Michael’s health, the bronchitis he had and the heater they had to keep beside him to keep him warm when he wasn’t dancing.

When he was dancing, Karen pointed out the number of shirts he was wearing during rehearsals to keep warm when the other dancers were in sleeveless t-shirts. Other observations included anxiety, missed rehearsals, Ortega and Payne driving to Michael’s house to drag him out of bed to attend rehearsals and the creative editing on the footage of “This is It” rehearsals. These showed Michael running through songs, but in sometimes five different outfits because, as Karen said, He never completed run through of one song.
 
I'd like to watch that interview!! I havent found it on youtube!!

I think they are right, unfortunately! :(
 
jrsfan said:
In KF, Michael Bush, Dennis Tompkins interview the subject of MJ health, missed rehearsals, being cold came up again. Pearl Jr said somewhere that she noticed MJ not going to rehearsals. This is from this blog by Bonnie Cox(I love her blog & think its very thoughtful):

http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/2010/06/michaels-year-personal-testimony.html

I was encouraged that all three mentioned on national television the condition of Michael, in stark contrast to what AEG’s Randy Phillip’s, Director and producer Kenny Ortega and Travis Payne had testified to.

According to all three of them, Michael was extremely thin and was not sleeping. He was stressed and unhappy about the number of concerts they had forced on him, he had agreed to only 10. Michael Lee Bush testified to Michael’s health, the bronchitis he had and the heater they had to keep beside him to keep him warm when he wasn’t dancing.

When he was dancing, Karen pointed out the number of shirts he was wearing during rehearsals to keep warm when the other dancers were in sleeveless t-shirts. Other observations included anxiety, missed rehearsals, Ortega and Payne driving to Michael’s house to drag him out of bed to attend rehearsals and the creative editing on the footage of “This is It” rehearsals. These showed Michael running through songs, but in sometimes five different outfits because, as Karen said, He never completed run through of one song.
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This was very interesting indeed--and they were all in agreement and besides it makes perfect sense. No matter what we may think of KF--I think she spoke truth here.

I also love Bonnie's website--she is spot on with her views and opinions!!!
 
jrsfan said:
In KF, Michael Bush, Dennis Tompkins interview the subject of MJ health, missed rehearsals, being cold came up again. Pearl Jr said somewhere that she noticed MJ not going to rehearsals. This is from this blog by Bonnie Cox(I love her blog & think its very thoughtful):

http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com/2010/06/michaels-year-personal-testimony.html

I was encouraged that all three mentioned on national television the condition of Michael, in stark contrast to what AEG’s Randy Phillip’s, Director and producer Kenny Ortega and Travis Payne had testified to.

According to all three of them, Michael was extremely thin and was not sleeping. He was stressed and unhappy about the number of concerts they had forced on him, he had agreed to only 10. Michael Lee Bush testified to Michael’s health, the bronchitis he had and the heater they had to keep beside him to keep him warm when he wasn’t dancing.

When he was dancing, Karen pointed out the number of shirts he was wearing during rehearsals to keep warm when the other dancers were in sleeveless t-shirts. Other observations included anxiety, missed rehearsals, Ortega and Payne driving to Michael’s house to drag him out of bed to attend rehearsals and the creative editing on the footage of “This is It” rehearsals. These showed Michael running through songs, but in sometimes five different outfits because, as Karen said, He never completed run through of one song.
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Thank you for this post....above all they said about Michael...the ALL KNEW he wasn't feeling well...yet they went and DRAGGED him out of bed and FORCED him to do rehearsals. They are ALL guilty for what happened to Michael as far as I am concerned. To have to force Michael Jackson to get up on stage and do what he loved to do...THAT is a problem. Do you all understand what I am saying?
 
i'm comfused on this :thinking: is MJ health or not health cause i through MJ eat very well :yes: i never seen him fat at all :no: so i'm comfused on this :yes:
 
personally, i think he was healthy and i thought he could do it. back then, he would do more than one hundred concerts all over the world. now, he was going to do 50 in one place, with the dates spaced out.

here are a few words on his health. its strange that this was taken down from the re runs of the show. this guy was dancing WITH michael on stage, watching him perform full out, which he said was never shown on TII. "Those bits that you see, he's not doing the full out still."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, ok. I want to bring in Kriyss Grant. You were the first dancer handpicked by Michael Jackson for his comeback tour. The rehearsal footage was made into an epic blockbuster movie and of course so many of us saw it. It`s "This is It" released by Columbia Pictures.

Chris, I have to ask you about something that perplexed me when I sat down and went into movie theater and watched this film. We know that Michael Jackson died with a drug cocktail in his body that was strong enough to knock over a horse. And yet watching this movie, I was astounded at how coordinated this 50-year-old man was, how lucid, how together. I just couldn`t match those two images of the drugs found in his system and all the stuff that we`re seeing right here. I can`t figure it out.

KRIYSS GRANT, HOST, "GET UP AND DANCE": He was very hands-on. I mean, there was really no signs of anything wrong. He was very into his work. He showed us that, you know, to save our energy and not to give a lot of basically but yet he would perform full out and we all would laugh about it because we never understood. And we kind of found ourselves trying to keep up with the king of pop. And it was just an amazing thing. So, I mean, he was very hands on in anything, the singing, the dancing, everything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I still don`t understand. They found Propofol, a surgical knockout drug, Lorazepam, Lidocaine, metazolam (ph), valium; that was in his system. This is right when he was rehearsing. He had come home from rehearsal.

How is it that a man, a 50-year-old man is able to act like that when he goes home and he puts these drugs in his system. I don`t get it. Do you have any explanation?

GRANT: No, I have none at all. When he was with us, it seemed like everything was ok, everything was fine, you know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s a mystery. If anybody on our panel has a thought about that, please jump in.
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