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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

If someone's pupils are fixed and dilated, it means they are dead, because the eyes are not responding to light.
 
@JMie She didn't say and had to go back inside the court because it was starting up they only got a 12 minute break. They also went into great detail again about the EMT's first reaction. He didn't realise it was MJ until Murray said it was, he thought it was a much older person who was dying and should have been in a hospice because he was so pale and thin with home medical supplies... The defense went to town on this saying this is what drug users are like...

And Im sure this was reported already, but the leg IV murray had in Michael, the EMT's used to give Michael the adrenaline-like drugs to try start his heart again, Murray tried to "help" and broke the IV needle in Michael's calf... The EMT's searched Michael's arms frantically and couldn't find a vein (because with no blood in them as lividity was setting in they'd be impossibly hard to find) they finally decided to use Michael jugular vein, hence the IV went through Michael's neck.

Michael was wearing a shower cap on his head as his detachable extensions were off.

Julia will call again during lunch break...
 
and hospital officials told him over the radio to “call” Jackson’s death, but that neither he nor Murray wanted to do so. “I said, 'Be advised, this is a very high-profile VIP,' ” Senneff said.
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thats a contridiction from his testimony yesterday. reports said he wanted to call it but murray didnt
 
re the prosecution not objecting to 'drug addict'. Remember Mez had never objected to anything Janet Arvizo said on the stand, Sneddon's team was objecting to PROSECUTION's questioning and Mez did not. The prosecution wants to know how the defence is going to respond to the testimony now. Let them reveal their defence strategy.
 
Fully dilated pupils, fixed-not reacting to light. That is the result of brain hypoxic injury which happens when your brain does not get enough oxygen. That is severe damage usually. Sing of death as well. He has been without oxygen for a while, minimum 5 to 10 minutes.
 
Soundmind said:
re the prosecution not objecting to 'drug addict'. Remember Mez had never objected to anything Janet Arvizo said on the stand, Sneddon's team was objecting to PROSECUTION's questioning and Mez did not. The prosecution wants to know how the defence is going to respond to the testimony now. Let them reveal their defence strategy.
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exactly
 
Soundmind said:
re the prosecution not objecting to 'drug addict'. Remember Mez had never objected to anything Janet Arvizo said on the stand, Sneddon's team was objecting to PROSECUTION's questioning and Mez did not. The prosecution wants to know how the defence is going to respond to the testimony now. Let them reveal their defence strategy.
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Quoted for truth! Let the defense reveal its strategy first, rather than have the prosecution immediatly blow it out of the water. Let them do that at the trial.
 
Soundmind said:
re the prosecution not objecting to 'drug addict'. Remember Mez had never objected to anything Janet Arvizo said on the stand, Sneddon's team was objecting to PROSECUTION's questioning and Mez did not. The prosecution wants to know how the defence is going to respond to the testimony now. Let them reveal their defence strategy.
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I hope so.
 
A paramedic sent to Michael Jackson's mansion says he saw the doctor charged in the singer's death scoop up three bottles of lidocaine from the floor and place the vials in a bag during efforts to revive the pop star.

Paramedic Martin Blount testified Thursday he was surprised to see the bottles because Dr. Conrad Murray had told paramedics he hadn't given Jackson any drugs.

He says Murray also produced a hypodermic needle at one point and wanted to use it on the singer. Blount says he and fellow paramedics refused.

He described Murray as frantic and sweating profusely.

http://www.todayonline.com/Breaking...-says-doc-scooped-up-vials-in-Jackson-bedroom
 
I don't understand how Murray broke the needle in Michael's calf. If the EMT's were already giving him adrenaline that means it was already an IV. If I'm not mistaken, once an IV is started the needle is gone, in favor of a small plastic tube attached to the IV mechanism. Therefore, how can a needle break when it isn't there in the first place? Does he mean that Michael's vein got blown, rendering the IV useless?
 
I just want to remind everyone to stay on topic and not use the thread as an outlet for conspiracy theories. This thread is also not about releasing anger at Karen. Please stick to the testimony of the trial.

Thanks!
 
guys refresh my memory: what is lidocaine and is it significant (other than Murray collecting them)?
 
Soundmind said:
re the prosecution not objecting to 'drug addict'. Remember Mez had never objected to anything Janet Arvizo said on the stand, Sneddon's team was objecting to PROSECUTION's questioning and Mez did not. The prosecution wants to know how the defence is going to respond to the testimony now. Let them reveal their defence strategy.
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i think so....there is no need to rush , i guess the prosecution want to show the defense ignorance ! so when discussing the autopsy will take place everyone will shut up including some sisters.
 
ivy said:
guys refresh my memory: what is lidocaine and is it significant (other than Murray collecting them)?
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its a painkiller given with diprivan. it was in the tubing etc
 
ivy said:
guys refresh my memory: what is lidocaine and is it significant (other than Murray collecting them)?
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''Lidocaine is used to reduce pain associated with propofol injection, either mixed with propofol or preceding it as a separate injection''
 
Soundmind said:
re the prosecution not objecting to 'drug addict'. Remember Mez had never objected to anything Janet Arvizo said on the stand, Sneddon's team was objecting to PROSECUTION's questioning and Mez did not. The prosecution wants to know how the defence is going to respond to the testimony now. Let them reveal their defence strategy.
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There is nothing to reveal in Chernoff's strategy. He is going to a conspiracy root. This whole forum will turn soon to a one huge conspiracy section.
 
ivy said:
guys refresh my memory: what is lidocaine and is it significant (other than Murray collecting them)?
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Its a painkiller given before Propofol is given as Propofol burns when it enters so lidocaine is given to relief the pain. Its significant as only a very small amount should be given and with Michael's case it seems a lot more was given that should have been given.
 
Lidocaine (Xylocaine is a local anaesthetic. It is used frequently in very small amounts with propofol before or during its administration. It prevents unpleasent irritation and pain caused by Propofol.
 
ivy said:
guys refresh my memory: what is lidocaine and is it significant (other than Murray collecting them)?
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It a local anesthetic used to numb an area of the body. (I know I was given it when I had dental work done).

I think someone said that propofol burns going through the skin so lidocane is used to numb the area so the burning is not felt.

Please someone correct me if wrong.

Murray said he did not give MJ anything and the medic questioned that when he saw the lidocane vials, because why else would he need them if he was not giving MJ anything.
 
ginvid said:
I just want to remind everyone to stay on topic and not use the thread as an outlet for conspiracy theories. This thread is also not about releasing anger at Karen. Please stick to the testimony of the trial.

Thanks!
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i'm really so sorry , but i wanted to understand how and why these info came from Chernoff!

but since you removed the post it is clear that i just told the truth !
 
ginvid said:
I just want to remind everyone to stay on topic and not use the thread as an outlet for conspiracy theories. This thread is also not about releasing anger at Karen. Please stick to the testimony of the trial.

Thanks!
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Sorry, but you are exaggerating. Karen was mentioned in testimony and she has spoken about the case on twitter since. Soon we can not write anything here. Meanwhile discussions about creams and hair lasted hours yesterday.

I will respect the rules, but I'm entitled to say that I disagree.
 
Licodaine is given with propofol to ease the buring feeling common local anesthetic drug



Stages of anaesthesia

Stage 1 anaesthesia, also known as the "induction", is the period between the initial administration of the induction agents and loss of consciousness. During this stage, the patient progresses from analgesia without amnesia to analgesia with amnesia. Patients can carry on a conversation at this time.

Stage 2 anaesthesia, also known as the "excitement stage", is the period following loss of consciousness and marked by excited and delirious activity. During this stage, respirations and heart rate may become irregular. In addition, there may be uncontrolled movements, vomiting, breath holding, and pupillary dilation. Since the combination of spastic movements, vomiting, and irregular respirations may lead to airway compromise, rapidly acting drugs are used to minimize time in this stage and reach stage 3 as fast as possible.

Stage 3, "surgical anaesthesia". During this stage, the skeletal muscles relax, and the patient's breathing becomes regular. Eye movements slow, then stop, and surgery can begin.

It has been divided into 4 planes:

eyes initially rolling, then becoming fixed.

loss of corneal and laryngeal reflexes.

pupils dilate and loss of light reflex.

intercostal paralysis, shallow abdominal respiration, dilated pupils

Stage 4 anaesthesia, also known as "overdose", is the stage where too much medication has been given relative to the amount of surgical stimulation and the patient has severe brain stem or medullary depression. This results in a cessation of respiration and potential cardiovascular collapse. This stage is lethal without cardiovascular and respiratory support.


They had no idea he was under propofol's influence .
 
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^^ Thank you all.

Exactly if he wasn't giving MJ anything why would he need lidocaine.


Asedora said:
There is nothing to reveal in Chernoff's strategy. He is going to a conspiracy root. This whole forum will turn soon to a one huge conspiracy section.
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you really should stop with conspiracy talk. Chernoff's cross examination doesn't suggest anything else than "drug addict" angle and "people other than Murray" (bodyguards as of now) injecting Michael.
 
MJStorm said:
Sorry, but you are exaggerating. Karen was mentioned in testimony and she has spoken about the case on twitter since. Soon we can not write anything here. Meanwhile discussions about creams and hair lasted hours yesterday.

I will respect the rules, but I'm entitled to say that I disagree.
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What are you talking about? That was not directed at you. That is why your post is still there. That was for someone else.
 
He says Murray also produced a hypodermic needle at one point and wanted to use it on the singer. Blount says he and fellow paramedics refused.
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So, I wonder what was in that hypodermic needle.
 
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