Naturelle
Proud Member
I agree with you AutumnII. Kenny Ortega told the story so well, It gave me the ability to visualize everything he had to say.
On the other hand, I think KO's words kind of proved what Karen Faye said and TINI people said, although it's quite interesting to see Karen blamed so much on KO. KO's email just showed that he did try to help but I don't think he had enough power to change anything when MJ himself said he was fine.
Murray should go to hell.
The thing about Adams...yes, if he testifies it could be for the defense. However, he will probably be a hostile witness and can easily become a witness for the prosecution on cross-exam (if you think of his possible testimony in a different light).
I don't know for sure, but he may have said it to protect Michael. I noticed that he never referenced Mike by name in that email. He seemed to have genuine concern for Michael. On the other hand, I get bad vibes from Randy P. Feeling really upset over what happened to our Angel. Some how this does not seem like any accident.God, I pray that the truth prevails!Yes he said this around the time they pushed back the first shows (early June).
Kenny's words only prove some truths from TINI and Karen. According to them, Michael was sick for weeks before he died.
Gongaware's testimony thus far, just confirms for me, that AEG didn't want anything to do with Conrad Murray. I bet that initial request for FIVE MILLION DOLLARS was all they needed to turn a deaf ear to his proposal to be Michael's personal tour doctor.
And to top it off, as per Gongaware, they would have had to supply Murray with housing for he AND HIS FAMILY. I'm assuming that means Murray and his NEWEST baby Momma. So on top of the $150,000.00, Murray's living expenses would have also been a part of the deal. No wonder they never signed the contract.
Kenny's words only prove some truths from TINI and Karen. According to them, Michael was sick for weeks before he died. Kenny clearly said that Michael was only ill for one day out of the entire time because he said he had never seen Michael like that before. Also, TINI and Karen insisted AEG worked him to death. Not so, since Kenny told AEG what had happened and they went to Murray to see what had happened.
I have that same feelingSometimes, I just feel like the "Evil Corporations" have just found a way to remove Michael Jackson from the "Matrix".
Oxman only interest is his own! And It's def to me MJ on that tape!
That is why I wrote "kind of". I think it all depends on how people interpreted what they saw. I did think Karen and TINI exaggerated things but lots parts do fit together now. Karen also stated that at beginning of the rehearsal, MJ is happy and eager to perform but things fall out around June. KO also said MJ started not showing up to the rehearsal constantly from June. If that's the only bad day, why he wrote in the email said they tried to play "now or never card" or "tough love"? If MJ was only bad for one day, why they need to play all these beforehand? MJ was a professional, I don't see any reason why they just start to show tough love without any reason. It's obvious, MJ was not just bad for one. I think that day (6/19) MJ was in the worst situation and it reach to the threshold that KO think something was way off and he need to sounds alarm. I believe if I remembered correct, Karen also sounds alarm at similar time as she claimed after 6/25. She actually acted similar like Kenny. Keep saying MJ was in good shape before 6/25 which I can understand why they all do that. MJ didn't need more bad press and he might actually make through. KO also stated in the email that he believe MJ can made it if he got real help.
As for the work MJ to death part, I guess it depends on what kind of tough love they try to play. KO said they did play now or never card. and he also stated in the email that MJ is so frighten that everything is going away. and KO also asked AEG not to pull the plug. It's obvious that they did threaten MJ that they might pull the plug as the "now or never" card. Maybe AEG just tried to push MJ since they already invest huge amount of money and they want the show to go on. However, in MJ's eyes, how did he going to know that they are just playing the "now or never card" (and I believe if things did fall apart it's not just a threat, no company is just going to waste all those money)? He saw everything he has is on the edge would for sure put him under more pressure. The more pressure would kind of leading to not easy to get sleep. and What's next???? I kind of understand where they have this kind of work to death conclusion. Because even Kenny was worried about the situation and thinking the now or never card only lead to worse situation. Of course we'll never know if MJ can pull all the show off or not if he didn't die on 6/25.
I am not saying AEG is the reason MJ died. Murray is guilty for sure. However, I think MJ, AEG, KO are all caught up in a tough situation. This is a must go on show, especially for MJ.
I can't say how much Karen did or didn't do since she is such a known lair. To be honest, she could had nothing and just simply went along with the tour, which is why she is now trying to throw everyone under the bus from TII and trying to say how only she was really the one trying to help Michael. Kenny didn't say a thing about Karen being there when Michael was sick on the 19.
When I said sick for one day, I mean only saw him sick at that time. He missed rehearsals, true, but it's impossible to say if it was for health reasons. Kenny didn't seemed that concern about Michael missing dates until the 19 when Michael was sick and should had stayed home. As I said, Kenny made it clear that he had never seen Michael liked that before. He mentioned no other days when Michael even came close to being as sick as he was then. As someone pointed out on another forum, you don't need a history to be concern if someone was fine the day you saw them and they come in sick as a dog the next and has trouble speaking. It would make sense that Kenny was alarm and wrote that letter of concern.
It's hard to say what Kenny was referring to. He could had been concern that they may pull the plug or delay if they thought Michael wasn't up to tour and they wouldn't make their money back. What Kenny could be saying, 'yeah, he isn't well at the moment, but it's fixable if he's given the chance to rest and see a doctor'. Michael felt pressure for allot of reasons. He could had been more frustrated because this was his big shot and here he was getting sick. It happens to all of us. I remember having to do an interview and finals when I had the stomach flu and I was stress and angry for the entire day.
I understand where you are coming from, but I think we need to keep Kenny's statement in context. Especially since it only partly confirms TINI and Karen's wild theories. As someone said, 'I lie based on the truth is still a lie'.
I agree. Most days I can't stand Jermaine, but he's right here. Walgren had a very specific reason for introducing this recording, and it wasn't to make Michael look like an addict. He said we'll hear Murray on the recording too, when it's played again in court. One has to wonder why a doctor is sitting by recording his patient in such a state. Why is Michael having this conversation with Murray rather than going to sleep? What is Murray's purpose here, and what is on the rest of the recording?ExoticPrincess;3495054 said:Latest tweet:
Jermaine Jackson (@jermjackson5)
Today has been very distressing for all of us, and I'd like to thank you for your prayers at this horrible time. I would also like to remind some in the media that the voice recording of Michael does not show/prove he was "an addict" -- and this leap to agree with the defense is unfair and inaccurate. The prosecution said my brother "was under the influence of UNKNOWN agents" at the time of that recording by Murray. That some people, Jane Valez Mitchell HLN and Ted Rwlands CNN, make statements saying this shows my brother to be "a drug addict" is not what was said in court re that recording. Events are upsetting enough without correspondents adding their own interpretation (or back-dating events to 1993). No-one can rule out the prospect that Michael was groggy because of something administered to make him relax/sleep. That does not him an addict. I would also add that Murray was by his side "observing" as well as recording so it can have nothing to do with drug depdency because Murray's case is that he was unaware of any drug dependency. One more reason why "addict" is a leap to assumption in these circumstances. Some networks need to make this distinction clear and correct this imbalance. Bottom line: Michael did not kill Michael. http://tl.gd/dbc67m ·
I must say, I have my issues with Jermaine, but I really appreciate this tweet he made. I just want them to be this clear when they are speaking to the media and yes, call out Jane Velez-Mitchell, 'cause this all seems like some sort of entertainment to her.
I agree. Most days I can't stand Jermaine, but he's right here. Walgren had a very specific reason for introducing this recording, and it wasn't to make Michael look like an addict. He said we'll hear Murray on the recording too, when it's played again in court. One has to wonder why a doctor is sitting by recording his patient in such a state. Why is Michael having this conversation with Murray rather than going to sleep? What is Murray's purpose here, and what is on the rest of the recording?
IN SESSION - Dr. Barry Friedberg approached by Murray's DEFENSE TEAM
Board-certified anesthesiologist Dr. Barry Friedberg was recently questioned by Conrad Murray's defense team. He joined In Session's Ryan Smith to discuss the drug that killed Michael Jackson.
Dr. takes up for Michael saying and showing correct way to admin. propofol.
ExoticPrincess;3495054 said:Latest tweet:
Jermaine Jackson (@jermjackson5)
Today has been very distressing for all of us, and I'd like to thank you for your prayers at this horrible time. I would also like to remind some in the media that the voice recording of Michael does not show/prove he was "an addict" -- and this leap to agree with the defense is unfair and inaccurate. The prosecution said my brother "was under the influence of UNKNOWN agents" at the time of that recording by Murray. That some people, Jane Valez Mitchell HLN and Ted Rwlands CNN, make statements saying this shows my brother to be "a drug addict" is not what was said in court re that recording. Events are upsetting enough without correspondents adding their own interpretation (or back-dating events to 1993). No-one can rule out the prospect that Michael was groggy because of something administered to make him relax/sleep. That does not him an addict. I would also add that Murray was by his side "observing" as well as recording so it can have nothing to do with drug depdency because Murray's case is that he was unaware of any drug dependency. One more reason why "addict" is a leap to assumption in these circumstances. Some networks need to make this distinction clear and correct this imbalance. Bottom line: Michael did not kill Michael. http://tl.gd/dbc67m ·
I must say, I have my issues with Jermaine, but I really appreciate this tweet he made. I just want them to be this clear when they are speaking to the media and yes, call out Jane Velez-Mitchell, 'cause this all seems like some sort of entertainment to her.
missred07;3495060 said:I do agree with you. like I said in my last post, she and Kenny just took the same action. Staying silence to the public before 6/25 which is reasonable. I also really don't like KF pretending that she is the only one trying to save MJ and all other people are just cold blood and careless. The email from KO just showed that he did care and he did try to help. and I do agreed that KF did lied about lots of things.
I do agree with you again.
What I am trying to point out is. KO stated they played the "now or never" card to MJ before and they show tough love to MJ. what other now or never card can they played besides pulling the plug? In my point of view, I think it's' quite obvious that AEG did threaten him to pull the plug before. maybe because MJ stop showing up for rehearsal? why MJ was frighten that everything would be all gone suddenly just because he was feeling sick in one day? If he kept telling KO that, there's huge chance he also told KF.
I am not saying it confirmed TINI or KF's theory. I am just saying some of the things they claimed they saw were "kind of" proved by KO. or in your words "partly". Like: MJ is not so wonderful all the time during the rehearsal like AEG always wanted to claim 2 years ago. KO also confirmed that they did played "now or never" card to MJ and MJ did afraid that they would pull the plug. I am just trying to say what KF or TINI claimed of what they saw are not just out of blue. and I am not saying their theory is truth.
As a Christian I've never told a person "Go to H***" in my life, but inside of me I'm murmuring like 'Murray you go to H**** !'
Is there any plan we pray for the MJ lawyers and prosecutors and supporter I mean everyone for Michael?
Life-sentence is what I want.