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Murray Trial - September 27 - Day 1 - Discussion Thread

I cried while watching the trial,it's sad very few people close to MJ actually cared about him.
 
wendy2004 said:
Well damn. It's been a while since I agreed with Jermaine about anything but gotta give credit where it's due...especially since he's saying this w/out hawking his wares. He's spot on.
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I agree with Jermaine also. I don't always agree with him. But he sure hit the ball out of the park here.
 
bluetopez said:
Someone shoot BRIAN OXMAN! He's saying the recording of mj was murray finding MJ like that already high of the demoral injection from klien! WTF? I hate this bastard! He is for the defense!
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What at 9am? when the recording was made. yeah klien opens early i guess! not. Murray recorded mj coming round from dip etc. thats what the recording shows. and it shows what sort of man murray is for recording his paitent and kept buying loads of diprivan after it was made.thats why the pros aired itjermain should go talk to his family that were sat in the courtroom seeing as they pushed the druggie crap
 
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I just read Jermaine's tweet and my utmost respect goes for this guy on this particular issue. THANK YOU Jermaine, even if it was a tweet on Twitter, THANK YOU
 
eighthnoterojo said:
wouldn't it be nice if, at a later date, we could make MJ's dream of building the biggest children's hospital in the world come true? The Michael Jackson Children's Hospital. Just a thought, or wish.

Much love to all in this difficult time.
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what a lovely idea!
that would be something....he would be smiling from above.....
 
I couldn't watch the stream and I think I'm glad I didn't.I've spent the night reading this thread and other sources..and crying.
I haven't seen the picture,I don't want to,although it may be better if I do it now that I know what to expect rather than stumble upon it at some random moment when it takes me completely off-guard.
I didn't want to listen to the tape either at first,but I know I have to do this,I need to be informed.That and KO's mail and the whole situation is just so heartbreaking :cry:
I personally feel some evidence,such as the photo,should have been kept for the Jury eyes only,but not only for this case,for all.I feel seeing that doesn't make any difference for the public and it's an invasion of privacy for any human being.

My very first impression of the Prosecution method (the tape and all) gave me an eerie feeling.I felt the idea behind it was good as to show Murray's negligence and greed,but at which price? Was this needed? I immediately reminded myself-and others did too in this thread- this is not about my feelings,about us or even about Michael,but about convicting the killer.The media is twisting the situation now,but I hope as the trial unfolds things are clarified as far as Mike's health.
I don't always agree with Jermaine either,but his tweet was spot on and I greatly appreciate he addressed this now.Thank you,Jermaine.

Thanks to everyone for your updates and comments.From what you say it seems Prosecution indeed did a good job.
As for the defense,they have none,apart from trying to blame the victim,as expected.There's no excuse for the actions of their client.None.

I've always been torn about TII.That e-mail made me understand things a little better,I think and it made me really really sad.

Hugs to all.
 
bluetopez said:
Smart doc for refusing to testify for Murray! He said Chernoff told him that when Murray does cardio version on his patients he doesn't start an intervenus he just put's the Propofol straight into the vein! =O Which Dr. Barry Friedberg said is reckless and not safe! So Murray gave people Propofol before, he knows what this is and never has given it the right way! OMG!
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A while back I had the thought that Murray was stocking up on propofol for use in his business and not solely for Michael. He was in a position where he could use the name of the most famous man on earth to make a lot of things happen.

Perhaps he had a feeling that he was not going to get to go to London and was making sure that he made the most of out of the situation he was in.
 
marebear said:
Kathy Hilton was just on piers morgan and she is very upset about what she saw today. She was trying to keep from crying. She looked how I feel right now.
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Kathy Hilton, good friend of Michael Jackson, was a guest on "Piers Morgan Tonight" this evening to talk about Day 1 of the Conrad Murray trial. "I have spent time with him, up until four or five months leading up to all this," Hilton told Piers Morgan. "Never, ever exhibited any of that kind of behavior. The most attentive, wonderful, father."

Hilton also expects some character assassination to come up during the trial. "People have been doing this to him for many years," she said

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2011/09/28/piers-hilton-jackson-audio-tape.cnn&hpt=pm_r1
 
I really wasn't ready for this trial. I just assumed it would be very clinical and medical. But it was so emotional! Seeing that picture was terrible. He looked so remote, thin, alone. It felt like the Michael Jackson we loved and cared about for so long had just faded away into this tiny person. How could it be the same man?

As awful as it felt seeing it, the audio was much much worse. We'd seen him semi-slurring before, but nothing like this. It was unmistakably his voice, but it seemed like he was already dead. So intoxicated, but in so much pain. Imagine not even being able to speak properly. And this doctor just listened to this and didn't think the poor guy was a mess and needed help? He just kept giving him propofol, night after night?

Kenny broke my heart, especially the email. Saying Michael was like a lost boy, frightened of "it all going away".

As fans, we may have always known in the back of our minds, that Michael had major problems. As much as we didn't focus on the facial changes, his weight etc, it was clear that he had psychological problems and had suffered terribly. But seeing it play out like this made it so very clear. The poor man was in so much pain, so confused, so frightened that people wouldn't love him, that he had to go through this every night just so he could block it out and "disappear". What in God's name happened to him that woould make him think this was acceptable? How much emotional trauma had he suffered to lead him to this point?

So if this was going on for 2 months, that means MJ had no real sleep for that long. Imagine being put under anaestesia every night? It's so extreme, but then MJ was always about extremes, one way or another.

Why didn't anyone help him? Kenny said no one was looking out for him...why? How do the Jacksons feel listening to this in court? Their son, brother, family? I understand they probably felt helpless and out of the picture. But maybe if they actually showed him they loved him for HIM, and cared about HIM, not the money/fame throughout his life, he would surely have accepted their help. Putting his trust in crooks and strangers didn't work for him ever.

And us fans? We cared so much about him, yet we couldn't do anything to help could we? Not a thing. And it was the decision to tour that led to this. His desire to please us? To show the world that he was "the greatest entertainer in the world".

Why couldn't he see that it didn't matter? Why was he so insecure that he couldn't see that it wasn't worth all this?

The newspapers slashing the photo over their covers was to be expected. Used and disrespected in life. Used and disrespected in death. His poor children having to see all this makes me so sad..

No matter what happened in the final night, the doctor has a price to pay. Regardless of what else comes out, he should never have let his greed and his patient dictate the terms of his treatment. He should have cared enough for "his friend" to speak to someone (maybe his mother), inform them of the serious problems MJ had and forced him into a sleep clinic/drug rehab. If the whole family had got together with some trusted friends, MJ wouldn't have had a choice. He would have been forced to address the problem. Alternatively, the doctor should have been alarmed at the information from Michael that other doctors had used propofol on him before and reported them to the medical board/police.

Sitting back and continuing to use this on him was not the right way. And then leaving him alone and failing to have any equipment? Blame it on Michael all you like, Dr Murray, but you were the one who gave it to him. Michael wouldn't have been able to get ahold of propofol without a medical staff. If they had all refused, Michael wouldn't have got it.

I feel so sad. It's as if MJ has died all over again
 
ExoticPrincess said:
Latest tweet:

Jermaine Jackson (@jermjackson5)That some people, Jane Valez Mitchell HLN and Ted Rwlands CNN, make statements saying this shows my brother to be "a drug addict" is not what was said in court re that recording.
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I applaud Jermaine's efforts. BUT......

He needs to add Brian Oxman to that list. Jane Valez and Ted Rowlands are just bad "reporters," whereas Oxman represents himself as some sort of family spokesperson. Sometimes I see him listed as Joe Jackson's attorney, and other times I see him listed as Jackson FAMILY attorney.

That joint right there needs to be clarified ASAP, and not on Twitter.

I remember when Stacey Brown was going around trying to pass himself off as some sort of "family" spokesperson, and shortly after that an OFFICIAL statement was released on the Dan Abrams show, which clarified that Brown spoke for Rebbie and no one else.

That's the type of action that needs to be taken now. Otherwise how can the family call for JUSTICE, when this fool Oxman is running around billing himself as a Jackson insider. Time to set the record straight, LOUD & CLEAR, once and for all!
 
Ive just seen the picture, and heard the recording. I felt sick to the stomach, never wanted to hear, or see that,
 
Stranger said:
Why couldn't he see that it didn't matter? Why was he so insecure that he couldn't see that it wasn't worth all this?
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That's the price you pay if you are a chlld star and go on to spend your entire life in the spotlight. I don't think he was ever given a chance to establish his own identity away from his phenomenal talent and the family can take some responsiblity for that. I think he wrote in moonwalk that his shoulders were too narrow to bear the responsiblity of his entire family's wellbeing, i don't get the impression he ever felt appreciated just for being himself.

If his self-worth was so completely bound up with being teh greatest entertainer in the world, i'm just glad that the demand for the o2 tour proved to him that he was unquestionably the biggest and best even after his long absence - being able to sell out 100 nights in one venue was amazing.
 
^^I know - just when I thought I could start coping again. Its heartbreaking. I saw the picture on my way to work on front page of the paper, I wasn't ready for it. I am so crushed to the very soul of me that Michael had to endure this. I will never, ever get over this. EVER.
 
Big Apple2 said:
I applaud Jermaine's efforts. BUT......

He needs to add Brian Oxman to that list.
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Problem is Oxman probably IS acting for the family or members of the family in their aeg lawsuit. There's doubtless going to be conflict of interests going on in the desire for justice against murray and for getting damages from aeg. If you think oxman's comments are 'unhelpful', i suggest you don't start reading latoya's tweets. It's all a conspiracy with a capital C.
 
I just listened to the recording it's really quite sick and also the "picture" should never have been released. Urgh I just want this trail to be over soon and that Justice will be served on Murry/
 
InSession



#MichaelJackson's former rep wonders was that really his voice played in court yesterday, she spoke w/JVM last night...

:smilerolleyes:
 
'Piers Morgan show' I just couldn't listen to those ' Doctor Murray saved my life...he's the most compassionate person I've ever met' people.... What are they trying to do? Do they want to depict Michael suicidal?!.....
They have no idea about him! He wanted to live, he had so many plans...he was the father and the artist......that's soooo unfair and sad...
 
Bonnie Blue said:
That's the price you pay if you are a chlld star and go on to spend your entire life in the spotlight. I don't think he was ever given a chance to establish his own identity away from his phenomenal talent and the family can take some responsiblity for that. I think he wrote in moonwalk that his shoulders were too narrow to bear the responsiblity of his entire family's wellbeing, i don't get the impression he ever felt appreciated just for being himself.

If his self-worth was so completely bound up with being teh greatest entertainer in the world, i'm just glad that the demand for the o2 tour proved to him that he was unquestionably the biggest and best even after his long absence - being able to sell out 100 nights in one venue was amazing.
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What I was amazed about was that even if he seemed to be high on something on that disturbing recording, he was still talkiout bng abeing the biggest entertainer in the world. Don't get me wrong, I deffinitely agree that he was and still is, but to be thinkingout that when you ab're barely able to speak?? I believe being a superstar was the essential picture of himself in his own mind.
 
Ok, so sorry to just jump in here and a little off topic, but I have to post this. Yesterday they played a recording of Murray and he said that after he gave Michael the propofol he (murray) went to the bathroom to relieve himself, but he also started that he not only relieved himself, but that he emptied Michael's urine that had been collected. Well this bothered me right away because he also stated that Michael didn't go to sleep that night and that is why so much medication was given. If Michael didn't go to sleep then why didn't he get up and use the bathroom when he had to go.

So then I was thinking maybe he already had the catheter so there was no point to remove it for Michael to go to the bathroom (which is wierd, but whatever), but this morning I woke up and the first thing I was thinking about was that in the photos the police took, there is a jug of urine, that I assume is Michael's that is quite full. Why is that still there if Murray emptied in a few moments before Michael passed??

I think Michael was asleep all night from the other meds, his urine was collected by the catheter because he was asleep, I think Murray gave Michael the propofol and killed him and the rest is cover story. I don't believe he left Michael alive when he went to the bathroom. The whole Bathroom story is BS in my opinion.
 
Here is the the Earth Song video that was shown in court. The last song he ever performed, guys! Even if it was rehearsal.
[youtube]ZT4zv5dI1Jk[/youtube]

Link to the TWYMMF-video, anyone? I haven't found one.
 
Is that the exactly same footage that was in This Is It movie? Camera angles looks same.
 
Looks like different angles to me. It's like the TDCAU-clip we got soon after his death, it was largely untouched picture-wise and unfinished in terms of being a full-blown film production.

There is no clips from the "Earth Girl" short film in this, which I believe there was in the movie during this song.
 
I couldnt sleep last night, yesterday was so hard. That recording kept spinning in my mind, even when Michael was under influence, his mind was still about two things: the show and the children. This world is so unfair to him.
 
cinderella said:
'Piers Morgan show' I just couldn't listen to those ' Doctor Murray saved my life...he's the most compassionate person I've ever met' people.... What are they trying to do? Do they want to depict Michael suicidal?!.....
They have no idea about him! He wanted to live, he had so many plans...he was the father and the artist......that's soooo unfair and sad...
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To be fair they are speaking of Muarry from how they knew him and they felt that greed wasn't the motivating factor (though I disagree). They felt that Muarry would try to help not harm. Also None of them said outright that he wasn't guilty but they don't think he did it purposely.
 
You would think the members of the medical profession, themselves, would want
Dr. Conrad Murray out of its ranks. :blink:
And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
Win us with honest trifles, to betray ’s
In deepest consequence.
Macbeth. ACT I Scene 3. by William Shakespeare

<TBODY>
</TBODY>
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jilliebean said:
Ok, so sorry to just jump in here and a little off topic, but I have to post this. Yesterday they played a recording of Murray and he said that after he gave Michael the propofol he (murray) went to the bathroom to relieve himself, but he also started that he not only relieved himself, but that he emptied Michael's urine that had been collected. Well this bothered me right away because he also stated that Michael didn't go to sleep that night and that is why so much medication was given. If Michael didn't go to sleep then why didn't he get up and use the bathroom when he had to go.So then I was thinking maybe he already had the catheter so there was no point to remove it for Michael to go to the bathroom (which is wierd, but whatever), but this morning I woke up and the first thing I was thinking about was that in the photos the police took, there is a jug of urine, that I assume is Michael's that is quite full. Why is that still there if Murray emptied in a few moments before Michael passed??I think Michael was asleep all night from the other meds, his urine was collected by the catheter because he was asleep, I think Murray gave Michael the propofol and killed him and the rest is cover story. I don't believe he left Michael alive when he went to the bathroom. The whole Bathroom story is BS in my opinion.
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very good point. how come the jug was still full yet he claimed he went to empty it .
 
chanel05 said:
To be fair they are speaking of Muarry from how they knew him and they felt that greed wasn't the motivating factor (though I disagree). They felt that Muarry would try to help not harm. Also None of them said outright that he wasn't guilty but they don't think he did it purposely.
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OK, thanks for your point
 
Wondering about the loraz defence argument. where there any loraz pills in the bedroom.and they claimed the pros didnt test the stomach.remember the toxis repirt where there was that dash and we wondered if something was tested or not. was that the liver?
 
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