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"Michael", a biopic about Michael Jackson, is officially happening.

Blues_Away2023 said:
I think Dangeorus era post allegations and beyond were prob the worst moments in his career in terms of reputation.

BAD, whilst never selling as much as Thriller - was still a massive success filled with classic hit singles and the iconic BAD tour. He was larger than life during this period and this is where his true god like status came from.

He was bigger, more famous , more fans freaking out over him etc , I’d say it was his peak as a fully fledged solo artist.
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Sorry but that not true; it was a very weird moment where peoples asked why he have changed his apperance drastically, why the way he sang have changed, his black fans were extremely upset by that; but not just them; it was a very complicated situation; that the begin of the mockery.

During Thriller he was already iconic and way more popular, fans ware already crazy during Thriller and before; it was nothing news; I don't see where he was more popular during Bad that during Victory for example; he was not more famous during Bad than before.

@innuendo141

okay no problem, thanks for the replies.
 
Victorious said:
I don't really know if I agree with Coleman Domingo's views on Joe Jackson's 'humanity': Yes of course Joseph was also formed by his generation and social upbringing but from all accounts known about him he mostly comes off as a sociopath to me; unable to have emphathy and merely in it for himself instead of 'wanting the best for his children'
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Joseph may appear to be pure evil, but he probably also had good sides that the biopic could take into account:
I remember I told you the one time he picked me up and put me on a pony. I don't think he even realized how that is marked in my brain forever.
The Michael Jackson Tapes, page 81

However, I would find it shocking if the biopic included a scene like that:
Janet and myself, we used to say (...) picture Joesph in a coffin. He's dead. Did you feel sorry? She'd go "No."
The Michael Jackson Tapes, page 91
 
blair said:
I take that like a compliment specially if we talk the grammys in the 80's.

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The true question is, if what happened that night was fair? If the voters were serious in their assessment?

Because if you look at the winners of that night, some of those decisions are ridiculous.
Especially if you compare those nominated songs/albums/artists and apply cultural impact, historic success & timelessness with MJ and the Bad project.

Bad defined the late eighties, if not the eighties in general. 11 songs (9 of them self penned), 9 singles, 5 consecutive #1 hits, a plethora of iconic music videos, the biggest world tour in history (at that time), the adoration, the frenzy, the mystic, MICHAELMANIA, peak..

In the eyes of most (the industry & media) MJ had too much success already with Thriller. So they tried to put him in his place, in every which way possible. The grammys was one of the most blatant cases in showing that.

If you look at artists nowadays, with there ridiculous amounts of Grammy wins for projects nobody is talking about anymore even a year later, let alone in 30 or 40 years, it’s painfully obvious.

Sorry for the long ass rant.
But sometimes guys in here need to take off their blinders, look at the big picture and be aware of the truth.
 
MJJuniorSinceMW said:
The true question is, if what happened that night was fair? If the voters were serious in their assessment?

Because if you look at the winners of that night, some of those decisions are ridiculous.
Especially if you compare those nominated songs/albums/artists and apply cultural impact, historic success & timelessness with MJ and the Bad project.

Bad defined the late eighties, if not the eighties in general. 11 songs (9 of them self penned), 9 singles, 5 consecutive #1 hits, a plethora of iconic music videos, the biggest world tour in history (at that time), the adoration, the frenzy, the mystic, MICHAELMANIA, peak..

In the eyes of most (the industry & media) MJ had too much success already with Thriller. So they tried to put him in his place, in every which way possible. The grammys was one of the most blatant cases in showing that.

If you look at artists nowadays, with there ridiculous amounts of Grammy wins for projects nobody is talking about anymore even a year later, let alone in 30 or 40 years, it’s painfully obvious.

Sorry for the long ass rant.
But sometimes guys in here need to take off their blinders, look at the big picture and be aware of the truth.
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To be alive during this time, sorry but it was not the MICHAELMANIA in his peak, far from it; sorry I will repeat again it was not the case, the mystic around him during his time was not see something good, he was considered like someone crazy.

That your interpretation, but imo the grammy was fair for Bad, it was seen like not really a letdown, yes the success was because it was the next album of Michael Jackson after Thriller; but it was not seen like a very good album during this times; imo Smokey Robinson deserved his award.

We are the World has an award the year before, so I don't think they wanted to punish Michael (okay the context was different).
 
I dont understand this in retrospect and why the people at the time felt like that. Michael was in his absolute prime in terms of looks in the bad era, like really stunningly handsome.
But I was too little, I discoverd him with Dangerous.
The edgyness of bad compared to thriller was a good thing.
 

People: Feb. 29, 1988

Bad, as all hipsters know, can also mean good. But when it comes to Michael Jackson, a lot of music fans think Bad is positively the worst. In a poll of 23,000 readers released by Rolling Stone this...
time.com time.com

"But when it comes to Michael Jackson, a lot of music fans think Bad is positively the worst. In a poll of 23,000 readers released by Rolling Stone this week, the Gloved One hit rock bottom in eight categories, including “worst male singer,” “worst dressed,” “worst album ((Bad))” and “worst single ((Bad)).” The backlash has more to do with the singer’s quirky personality than his music, says Rolling Stone Music Editor David Wild: “People are responding negatively to his image and to the hype. The category he should have won is ‘worst image’ or ‘least understood.’"
 
Blair Witch Project:
Okey buddy. Sure.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

But maybe you take a look at some of the nominees and winners that night:

30th Annual Grammy Awards - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

• Graceland (Paul Simon) won record of the year 🤭

And maybe you search out some news clips from 1987/88/89 in regards to MJ and the bad tour. Or just watch the BRACE YOURSELF montage.

I don’t know where you are based.
But(t) maybe you should look at the Bad era from more of an international/standpoint, rather than an North American point of view.

The Bad album is the second best selling album of all time by a male solo artist.

To call that ANYTHING else than a mega success, from which ever stand point you’re maybe coming from („ yada yada, the follow up to an even bigger success, yada yada yada“), is delusional at best, bordering malicious at worst.
 
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blair said:

People: Feb. 29, 1988

Bad, as all hipsters know, can also mean good. But when it comes to Michael Jackson, a lot of music fans think Bad is positively the worst. In a poll of 23,000 readers released by Rolling Stone this...
time.com time.com

"But when it comes to Michael Jackson, a lot of music fans think Bad is positively the worst. In a poll of 23,000 readers released by Rolling Stone this week, the Gloved One hit rock bottom in eight categories, including “worst male singer,” “worst dressed,” “worst album ((Bad))” and “worst single ((Bad)).” The backlash has more to do with the singer’s quirky personality than his music, says Rolling Stone Music Editor David Wild: “People are responding negatively to his image and to the hype. The category he should have won is ‘worst image’ or ‘least understood.’"
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🤣 I wouldn’t call it healthy, having THAT perspective, calling myself a fan of MJ …

I‘d say: Haters bring on the hate. 🤣

 
blair said:
Sorry but that not true; it was a very weird moment where peoples asked why he have changed his apperance drastically, why the way he sang have changed, his black fans were extremely upset by that; but not just them;
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Sorry to derail the thread but this is another thing about the biopic: will they show how the black community dropped MJ as a brick when he became too childish, feminine and 'white'..? Or will it be too woke for that?

Because these days the black community (black myself, not from the US) acts like the white public and media failed him while I remember it totally different (I felt pretty alone defending him during the early 90s)
 
mjfp said:
I guess the perspective if the late 80s were his peak depends on if you were a fan during that time, not being a fan whos only input were news channels talking about him and a fan having not experienced the 80s
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That.
And, as I said, it’s a matter of where you were based in the world. The backlash after thriller was mostly if not exclusively a domestic thing.
 
Victorious said:
Sorry to derail the thread but this is another thing about the biopic: will they show how the black community dropped MJ as a brick when he became too childish, feminine and 'white'..? Or will it be too woke for that?

Because these days the black community (black myself, not from the US) acts like the white public and media failed him while I remember it totally different (I felt pretty alone defending him during the early 90s)
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That an interesting point, to show the blacklash or not, it was very complicated to be a fan during Bad era, Black peoples felt betrayed, just after that Michael Jackson was the biggest artist of all the time, it was a big mistake to not communicate about that, that my problem with this movie, I don't think they will touch this subject to create a new narrative, that Bad was perfect and his best project, but in the same time try to diminish; at least according the trailer, his past years.

Yes I have lived the same thing, it was very tiresome to defend him, it was weird because few years earliers everybody loved him, it was seriously like two different artists.
 
Victorious said:
The biopic will be a (somewhat) fictitious movie, so the decision of Branca to do a biopic instead of a documentary remains a missed oppurtunity to me.
Sure documentaries are becoming a bit out of fashion by now, but there must be something where the general public can learn the facts about MJ and his tribulations with actual MJ footage?
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Don't worry, Taj got you covered. I'm sure there's a thread for that somewhere on here 😉
 
Victorious said:
Sorry to derail the thread but this is another thing about the biopic: will they show how the black community dropped MJ as a brick when he became too childish, feminine and 'white'..?
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It was Whitney Houston that was booed at the Soul Train Awards one year though, not Mike. In Living Color had a parody skit about Whitney called Rhythmless Nation (set to Janet's Rhythm Nation). How was he dropped by the Black community when Get It the duet with Stevie Wonder made the Top 5 on the R&B chart, but only #80 on the Hot 100 (pop) chart? Plus R&B radio played non-single songs like Why You Wanna Trip On Me, Can't Let Her Get Away, & She Drives Me Wild. R&B stations did mostly ignore songs like Heal The World. Probably because it did not fit the hip hop & New Jack Swing era tracks of the time. Mike also got positive features in Ebony, Jet, Right On! & other Black publications when the white ones like Rolling Stone was saying he had the worst comeback. As far as the "white" part of your comment, R&B radio was playing George Michael, Teena Marie, Jane Child, Sheena Easton, Hall & Oates, Nu Shooz, Taylor Dayne, Pet Shop Boys, Dino, Falco, Beastie Boys, Tara Kemp, etc. plus Latino acts like Exposé, The Cover Girls, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, Gloria Estefan. In the mid 1980s, Soul Train was even playing songs like Jump by Van Halen & BET was showing Huey Lewis & The News music videos.

Some Black people did feel that Mike & others like Tina Turner, Prince, Lionel Richie, Billy Ocean, Whitney Houston, etc, watered down their music to get the mainstream (code for white) sales. But that had to do with their music, not their looks. Even then they still got R&B airplay, well maybe not Tina so much. Back in the 1960s Motown was accused of the same thing & other labels like Stax & Chess were considered more Black sounding. What the Black audience in general did abandon was blues & jazz music, starting in the 1960s. It was the white British Invasion acts that would have the blues artists open for them and their careers were resurrected and got a new younger white hippy audience.
 
Victorious said:
Sorry to derail the thread but this is another thing about the biopic: will they show how the black community dropped MJ as a brick when he became too childish, feminine and 'white'..? Or will it be too woke for that?

Because these days the black community (black myself, not from the US) acts like the white public and media failed him while I remember it totally different (I felt pretty alone defending him during the early 90s)
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too much to include in an 2h movie, also that time isnt being adapted in the movie
 
It’s a ridiculous argument in the first place, Invincible is right there. No promotion. Barely any recognition. No tour. And MJs antics (Blanket) genuinely did border on cancel-worthy. Talking about Bad in comparison to that is downright silly.
 
DuranDuran said:
It was Whitney Houston that was booed at the Soul Train Awards one year though, not Mike. In Living Color had a parody skit about Whitney called Rhythmless Nation (set to Janet's Rhythm Nation). How was he dropped by the Black community when Get It the duet with Stevie Wonder made the Top 5 on the R&B chart, but only #80 on the Hot 100 (pop) chart? Plus R&B radio played non-single songs like Why You Wanna Trip On Me, Can't Let Her Get Away, & She Drives Me Wild. R&B stations did mostly ignore songs like Heal The World. Probably because it did not fit the hip hop & New Jack Swing era tracks of the time. Mike also got positive features in Ebony, Jet, Right On! & other Black publications when the white ones like Rolling Stone was saying he had the worst comeback. As far as the "white" part of your comment, R&B radio was playing George Michael, Teena Marie, Jane Child, Sheena Easton, Hall & Oates, Nu Shooz, Taylor Dayne, Pet Shop Boys, Dino, Falco, Beastie Boys, Tara Kemp, etc. plus Latino acts like Exposé, The Cover Girls, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, Gloria Estefan. In the mid 1980s, Soul Train was even playing songs like Jump by Van Halen & BET was showing Huey Lewis & The News music videos.

Some Black people did feel that Mike & others like Tina Turner, Prince, Lionel Richie, Billy Ocean, Whitney Houston, etc, watered down their music to get the mainstream (code for white) sales. But that had to do with their music, not their looks. Even then they still got R&B airplay, well maybe not Tina so much. Back in the 1960s Motown was accused of the same thing & other labels like Stax & Chess were considered more Black sounding. What the Black audience in general did abandon was blues & jazz music, starting in the 1960s. It was the white British Invasion acts that would have the blues artists open for them and their careers were resurrected and got a new younger white hippy audience.
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What an educated post!
Thank you very much for that!

Then and now..
There has always been a loud minority who is obscuring the reality.
It’s all narrative and agenda.

Of course there were haters, envy, greed and so on regarding MJ in the 80ies.
But come on, the no. 2 selling album of all time by a male artist, 5 no. 1 hits, and the biggest tour the world has ever seen!

„But it’s a big flop and it was all so difficult being an MJ fan then!“
You wanna scream:
Damn, get yo lazy ass outta here, maaan!
 
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