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Atheist thread

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

It is funny how one views a critic of an opinion as rude. I think this is because people know that their opinion is unjustified and when someone calls upon that, their self defence mechanism kicks in and they play the victim.

No atheists don't view all religious people as stupid, just as not well educated and misguided.

The stupid people are the people who call themselves creationists.

And they should be called names and attacked because they are a menace to society.

If you believe in god, fine by me. But when you try to explain why you believe and I find logical errors and contradictions in your explanation, then I will call you upon that. That does not make me arrogant, it makes me honest.
If you claim a moral high ground because of the Bible, then I will attack that viewpoint, because the Bible is the worst guide for morals there exists. Everyone who has read the ENTIRE book knows this.

Arrogance is believing you know something when you don't.

Religion is the arrogant factor in all this. It claims to know truth and can provide no evidence.

Science is about admitting you don't know, and using the correct methods to find out the truth. Atheists are more honest then people of faith, simply because they admit they don't know. And we don't assume truths right out of our asses and pretend its logic when all it is, is special pleading and emotional states wich cloud our judgement.

When a Christian says to me he or she knows the truth and can provide no evidence, then that person is a moron. That is not rude, it is the truth.

Just look at the thread where all those people who think they are experiencing MJ's ghost. As soon as you ask them objectivly about their belief, they go and run behind the "protect my free speech" curtain and pretend they are victims of arrogannce and rudeness.

It just shows they are making special pleeding and begging the question. It shows their belief is weak and does not hold up to scrutiny.

You may find what I say offensive, but remember this. The computer you use exists because of people who asked the hard questions and evaluated all opinions and rejected the logic if it did not hold up.

People tend to forget that what has given you the modern society with technology and medicine, the ability to fly, drive and instant communication exists because science and the scientific method, wich many of you claim not to hold up when it comes to the big questions.

That my friends is called a cop out.

Atheism always wins, because athesism is based on evidence and logic.


This is why atheistic societies like Scandinavia are more succesful then religious societies.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

StarSecret said:
You have touched on a very important issue!! Fear is such a primal motivator. And it is true that this is abused today and has been in the past by many religions. It's very sad and quite abhorrent. Fear is the reason there are so many so called people of faith who condemn their fellow humans out of prejudice, basically fear of anything that is different. These people smear religion.

But I dont think it's fair to say a believer is in denial period.
Not everyone who believes is a cherry picking bible basher scared to death of judgment. I believe in God but I keep my faith something personal, it's mine and I don't need to convince any one else :) I'm very aware of the contradictions in organised religion and stay away from it, but that said, I the world's many faiths fascinating from a historical point of view.

I like this thread, it really is food for thought. :)
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I feel the same way as you!
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

I'm more agnostic. I really really hope there is something after life, although i do not believe any religion is correct or that any human being could possibly know.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

simply put religion is what the people with power used to control the peasants or lower people in ancient times, and it is definitely outdated, any religion is pointless, on the other hand there are some great lessons within religion, it just seems so fake and manipulated to me other than those rare good points, i find that the most evil of people are die hard religious folks, the hypocritcal things that i've witnessed "christians" take part in, its truly disgusting, and then they have the nerve to criticize me because i dont believe in their god, not saying all christians, just saying ones that i kno, or most of the ones that i kno lol
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

If anyone wonder why this thread gets a two star rating. Here is the answer:)

Quoting Thunderfoot from YouTube.

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone got one.

In science an opinion has almost no merit. It needs to be supported by physical evidence reasoned logic, and an extensive insight into the knowledge that has previously been gained by scientific research before anyone will seriously entertain the concept"


To further explain why this is a very true statement, I will point out some things that is very true in the real world and how a society functions.

Everyone has a right to have an opinion, but no one has the right to claim truth without that truth being supported by logical testable evidence.

When you state an opinion, the person who has to listen to it has the right to respond. If that person who is listening finds your opinion to lack logic and evidence, then your opinion can be refuted. If that should happen, you do not have the right to use the free speech card everytime your bullshit is being exposed. That is an unfair practice of free speech. If you want to express an opinion about something, you have to accept that free speech gives people the right to analyze your opinion and reject it if it is found to be unjust. Furthermore, if one should find that you lack the neccesary knowledge to account for your opinion, that also can be mentioned. This is not the same as being rude to anyone. Honesty has a value, and that value is that it allows for progress.

Hiding behind virtues whenever you can not logically explain your position is cowardly and is not respected in society. Many of you are young people, and it is important you understand this. In the academic arena in schools, this sort of behaviour will not favor you in any way. Society thrives on knowledge, and dishonest conduct and spreading dis information is considered anti social. This is the reason why people will speak up.

You're right to have free speech is not denied when you are challenged and ridiculed if you spout ignorance about a subject and pretend it is valid. This is a natural consequence of a responsible society that seeks out to protect its survival, and ity also protects free speech.

When you call someone who has a vast amount of knowledge on a subject, and who will not enteratin your ignorant opinions about that subjcet an arrogant person, you not only show how weak your stand point was to begin with, but your resort to childish dishonest anti social behaviour. If you argue against someone who has a PHD in quantum physics, that his calculations are bogus, then that person who has the proper education can and may simply call you an ignorant moron. He or she is not being arrogant or rude by doing so, but is simply being honest, if not direct. It is you who pretend you know something and try to ridicule that person who actually do know something about the subject, who are arrogant and rude.

This is an important lesson in life, and it will serve you well in your lifetime, so think about it. Cast aside your personal bias and feelings towards things like this, and think.

The world is complex. To understand it you must work hard. Just becasue you are given the right to express yourself does not mean that everyone has to take you serious. That is a self righteous arrogant position to hold.

Thank you and may God be less.

TheBob
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

scientifically speaking we can't prove there is no god and probably never will be able to but science still supports evolution and explanations of how humans came to be and how planets and the universe began.

religion often leads to violence especially when fundamentalists are involved.
however the philosophy of jesus and of Buddha arent bad love your neighbor and treat them kindly.

but why believe in the bible if we know better. we know that just as its impossible for santa clause to visit billions of ppl in one night then it is probably impossible for one man to listen to millions of prayers and let alone repond to them.

many ppl believe michael jackson is in heaven but chances are he isnt becasue there is probably no heaven.
he has no thoughts no emotions becasue he is dead. your brain is physiologically responsible for all your memories and thought so unless souls have brains. he had no idea what happened after that milk of amnesia started to work and never will
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

I haven't read all these religion/atheist threads yet, but it looks here as if the religionists have swamped this thread to challenge the nonreligionists, then blame nonreligionists, when they respond to these challenges, as "attacking religion."

I haven't looked yet, but have nonreligionists swamped the religionist threads and done the same?
 
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Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

BUMP.

If anyone's interested in an atheist social networking joint, then this is the place to be:

http://www.atheistnexus.org/

Great community, great people.


"Superstition ain't the way....."​
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

123Jam said:
scientifically speaking we can't prove there is no god and probably never will be able to but science still supports evolution and explanations of how humans came to be and how planets and the universe began.

religion often leads to violence especially when fundamentalists are involved.
however the philosophy of jesus and of Buddha arent bad love your neighbor and treat them kindly.

but why believe in the bible if we know better. we know that just as its impossible for santa clause to visit billions of ppl in one night then it is probably impossible for one man to listen to millions of prayers and let alone repond to them.

many ppl believe michael jackson is in heaven but chances are he isnt becasue there is probably no heaven.
he has no thoughts no emotions becasue he is dead. your brain is physiologically responsible for all your memories and thought so unless souls have brains. he had no idea what happened after that milk of amnesia started to work and never will
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well said.end of the day humans are fickel.they like to think theres something more powerful above them controling things and theres something else after this life cause it makes them feel better. even when all common sense and logic tells you the opposite.i fail to see the point in believing/worshipping something that makes no difference to everyday life. things happen the world goes on. whether theres somthing in the sky or not makes no difference to things.if it were announced tomorrow that god didnt excist nothing would change
 
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Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

.Butterflies. said:
Just wondering, have any of you guys seen Religulous? My brother introduced me to it ta month or so ago. It's both hilarious and a really, really interesting insight into the many religions . I urge you all to watch it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZpREDn4NFA
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It was really entertaining. But I was actually pretty disappointed in Maher. He seemed more juvenile, less sophisticated, than I expected from him. Ultimately of course he must be humorous and entertaining, but given some of his material from standup shows and such, I expected something a little higher quality. But hey, better than nothing.

Guess Bill won't be the inheritor of George Carlin's crown, IMHO.

I went through a Bill Hicks phase a few years ago, who has some fascinating material on YouTube. A Lenny Bruce-styled satirist, but who died young. Was largely blackballed in the US and performed mostly in Europe toward the end. I'll look for a good link for him.

I wish we could have a new thread without misspellings in the title, plus I have no idea what the second part of the title means... it kinda makes me cringe... anyone motivated to start one?

ArXter.... great link, thanks! Wasn't familiar with that site.

One thing I've learned, though, for me is that it's not enough to be united by what you don't believe in. Nontheist groups are crucial for political action on church-state separation and civil rights, but beyond that members tend to be as diverse and almost any random assemblage of people. So for me anyway, networking works better when it's about what we do believe in. I'm involved in several groups: humanists, Brights, and some local groups I helped found, including a naturalistic philosophy group and a Skeptics group to promote science education in the general public.

I'm a big fan of Richard Dawkins -- I'm finishing up The Selfish Gene, with is simply amazing. I feel like a total idiot for not having read this years ago. Everyone should read this book. It's very accessible to the general public, yet changes completely how we must view evolution, both biologically and culturally. (This is where he popularizes the idea of the cultural "meme"). And of course, the God Delusion was so, so powerful, beautifully written. I just heard him speak a second time... be sure and check his website to see if he's coming near you on his current book tour.
 
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Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

arXter said:
BUMP.

If anyone's interested in an atheist social networking joint, then this is the place to be:

http://www.atheistnexus.org/

Great community, great people.


"Superstition ain't the way....."​
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i used to go on richarddawkins.net forums until i got thrown off in quite a painful manner when i came across this thread with the most disgusting comments on MJ's death i could ever imagine:

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=85714
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

roiklow said:
And, about the God thing God doesn't exist because of religion. God actually can be a lot of things. Every human being is entitled to have its own inner misticism and its own god. I never call it God but I myself have a complex innerworld wich is guided by a subconscience of mine wich if i want i can call the whole thing God and that's it.
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Even though your overall point is to distinguish between 'faith' and organised religion (which is well-put), I do have a problem with this seemingly popular fad of "God can actually be a lot of things". It's like when Einstein and Hawking twisted the term "God" to be whatever 'force' initiated the universe.

But isn't the notion of god fundamentally rooted in creationism and comes directly from man-made scriptures? I personally think the word should be dropped from any intellectual discourse. I cringed and winced a lot last year whenever I read the Higgs boson being referred to as "the God particle".

Whatever explanation we'll finally uncover will actually be radically different from - contrasting to - any fictitious theological guess-work that refers to a god.

And as to a question asked a few pages back about whether Christianity is 'compatible' with the science of evolution.... No. No it isn't.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

^ sorry for bringing that up, i thought it was a good illustration of sense of ethics in atheistic community (lack of basic respect for another human being, doesn't matter it was about MJ) and complete lack of balanced and rational thinking (judging based on tabloid info) that some members demonstrated, quite a lot, actually. i dont say every atheist enjoys making jokes about someone else's death and other people feelings but still it was allowed there, wasn't moderated appropriately and leaves not nice impression of the whole place in general.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Top 10 Reasons Why Beer Is Better Than Jesus

10. No one will kill you for not drinking Beer.

9. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.

8. Beer has never caused a major war.

7. They don't force Beer on minors who can't think for themselves.

6. When you have a Beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to give it away.

5. Nobody's ever been burned at the stake, hanged, or tortured over his brand of Beer.

4. You don't have to wait 2000+ years for a second Beer.

3. There are laws saying Beer labels can't lie to you.

2. You can prove you have a Beer.

1. If you've devoted your life to Beer, there are groups to help you stop.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Chihiro2 said:
^ sorry for bringing that up, i thought it was a good illustration of sense of ethics in atheistic community (lack of basic respect for another human being, doesn't matter it was about MJ) and complete lack of balanced and rational thinking (judging based on tabloid info) that some members demonstrated, quite a lot, actually. i dont say every atheist enjoys making jokes about someone else's death and other people feelings but still it was allowed there, wasn't moderated appropriately and leaves not nice impression of the whole place in general.
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Oh you did not just say that.
I can think of a million more examples to illustrate the "sense of ethics" in religious communities that include a lack of respect for life, equality and justice - but I won't, because using MY balanced and rational thinking, I know not to generalise a whole community (you say you didn't, but you did). As for that website, internet forums (come on, you're using an internet forum as an measuring stick??) are a beast of their own - all of them.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

CarinaT said:
Oh you did not just say that.
I can think of a million more examples to illustrate the "sense of ethics" in religious communities that include a lack of respect for life, equality and justice - but I won't, because using MY balanced and rational thinking, I know not to generalise a whole community (you say you didn't, but you did). As for that website, internet forums (come on, you're using an internet forum as an measuring stick??) are a beast of their own - all of them.
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but it's hard to avoid generalising when talking about a community as a whole.

my post was originally a response to the comment above about another similar website described as a "great community, great people" – that was a generalisation just as much as saying the opposite. so basically my impression of an atheist community was very different. and when i'm saying 'community' i mean some general rules and acceptable patterns of ethical behaviour that usually represent its members (of course there can be many great individuals within any community). Dawkins' website isn't just a random tabloid forum, but one of the most respectable atheist websites on the net. posting such rude, ignorant and disrespecful comments shouldn't have been tolerated on there - that's why every society has laws i guess, and on a smaller scale internet forums have rules and moderators. I found their lack of intervention very disappointing.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Chihiro2 said:
...a good illustration of sense of ethics in atheistic community (lack of basic respect for another human being...
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I think you need to look at the Man in the Mirror, Chihiro, about respect for others. Accusing all atheists of lacking ethics and basic respect for human beings! That's so out of line it isn't funny, and I take deep offense. If I'd posted such a thing in a religious thread of yours, you'd report me in a heartbeat.

Such ugly bigotry in this world.

Do we ignore trolls like this or call them out?

smh
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

^^ first of all, if you read my posts, you'll see you took one sentence out of context, which alone maybe looks like a generalisation, but I clearly stated I was aware that not every member of that community lacks respect for other human beings. I gave a link to some comments that I find ethically questionable. for some reason comments like those are not allowed here. please explain me why they are allowed in one of the most representative atheist communities.

2nd – where did you see me posting in a religious thread? I'd advice you to check next time before stating something that's not true and accusing me of being someone I am not.

I have never attacked you as an atheist nor your ethics, you categorised me as a religious bigot without knowing anything about my religious beliefs and i don't even find it offensive, it's just beyond ridiculous.
 
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Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).


Chihiro2, you came into this thread making the sweeping statement that atheists don't have ethics. Of course this is an attack on any atheists in this thread. I don't need to know any more about your religious beliefs; this is religious bigotry.

Now if you didn't mean it, how about simply apologizing rather than pretending you didn't say what you did.

Or at least quit trolling.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Chihiro2 has long been supportive of atheistic debates on here. If you go to RichardDawkins.net forums, though, you'd see what she's talking about. I love Richard, by the way, but that site is like the MJStar of the community.

Anyway, I'd like to bring up a tender point in debates.... Why do we have to be "tolerant" of beliefs that we find both logically and morally wrong, and why should we "respect" them?
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

arXter said:
Chihiro2 has long been supportive of atheistic debates on here. If you go to RichardDawkins.net forums, though, you'd see what she's talking about. I love Richard, by the way, but that site is like the MJStar of the community.
Click to expand...

I've been starting to go on that forum as well. I recently read his book "The God Delusion" and since then, I've been watching some debates of his on youtube.

Their really interesting.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Chihiro2 said:
^ i thought it was a good illustration of sense of ethics in atheistic community (lack of basic respect for another human being)


Try saying that to the next Gay person the Church decides to beat up and humiliate :)
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Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

I haven't been here for a while and it's good to know this thread is not dyin.
I've been reading The God Delusion and found interesting stuff however some things are difficult to understand at first reading, secondly, English is not my 1st language.
In that book portraits Albert Einstein as an athiest (if I'm not mistaken). I love the way it shows how famous people, intellectuals, etc can be athiest and being decent, contributing to their society without religious belifs(sp?)
I mean Nazis have/had Wotan, Hitler as god and the'd done the most terrible stuff ever known.
I really believe you can be a good decent person no matter if you haven't a creed in particular. Here in Mexico is not easy being athiest because 98% of the population believe in god.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Bumpety. And for the love of reason, someone please correct the title!
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
I haven't been here for a while and it's good to know this thread is not dyin.
I've been reading The God Delusion and found interesting stuff however some things are difficult to understand at first reading, secondly, English is not my 1st language.
In that book portraits Albert Einstein as an athiest (if I'm not mistaken). I love the way it shows how famous people, intellectuals, etc can be athiest and being decent, contributing to their society without religious belifs(sp?)
Click to expand...

Einstein wasn't an atheist, but he wasn't a believer in the Biblegod either (so whenever Christians quote him as a Christian or believing Jew, that's false). He said that very clearly. He was more agnostic/perhaps a deist. He said there must be some kind of creator behind all this but he said he realized at the age of 12 (after being raised religiously) that the Bible cannot be true.

For me it took a little longer but I realized it by now too. :cheeky:
 
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