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BREAKING NEWS - Dr. Conrad Murray Hid Propofol / Michael Jackson doctor interrupted CPR

Okay, guess I'll say what I've seen personally throughout the years in dealing with pts that have died.

If the eyelids are even slightly open, we try to close them immediately, using saline drops if necessary, and then apply a cottom ball on the eyelid and tape the eyelid gently shut with paper tape. Very hard to close the eyelid and keep it closed if the cornea and inner eyelid is dry.

If the pt has been dead (hate using that word in this instance) and the eyelids are shut, you have to be careful in trying to open them since the natural eye moisture is no longer there.

The "wide open" statement I would tend to take with a grain of salt in this instance, versus that the eyeslids were (simply) open, unless Michael had been gone so long that there was no moisture left and his eyelids remained open after Murray checked them. My guess would be CM did check for pupillary response when he found Michael. What makes it sound as if Michael had been dead for more than a few minutes was that the eyelids did not close again after CM checked them, and why did CM not close them then himself unless the eyes were already very dry.

It's all conjecture to me at this point. I don't know why Alvarez took so long to report some of these things. Everything I read I have to just take in and wait until the trial gets underway to see/read all the aspects and nuances. That doesn't stop me from feeling that Michael was gone much longer than Murray's original statement indicated. Personally I think there is alot more that we don't know about than what we do know about, ie what's been released, etc. jmo
 
kasume said:
Well, if they SHOULD be, they really could.

It's Murray's job anyways to take the fall. Let him take it!!

Like Katherine, I DEMAND murder charges. Second degree the least.
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StaceyMJ said:
Not even any stacked charges...come on! Don't understand.
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sloride said:
Even T-Mez highly doubts that there will be any extra charges. Murray killed a man and tried to cover it up, yet the charge is still IM? And the family are finding out the exact same way we are-through the media about what exactly happened that night.
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ginvid said:
As sad as it is, I agree. remember these are new testaments to us only. The police have known about them for months and took them into account when coming up with the initial charge.
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first of all as ginvid has pointed out this is only "new" information for us, it is not new for the prosecutors as they knew this since August before they determined the charges.

The main question is - as T-Mez said- is the credibility. Remember here the DA has to prove that Murray is guilty without a reasonable doubt. If they increase the charges to Murder based on these statements and then the defense says "but they changed their stories" that's a reasonable doubt. That's what T-mez is saying by keeping it simple and not even including this things. They want a certain conviction and that means only focusing on non-refutable facts.
 
It's all conjecture to me at this point. I don't know why Alvarez took so long to report some of these things.
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because the police didnt want to talk to him. remember his lawyer had to basically go to the press and say my clients wants to talk to you back in august. there were articles from the time. for some reason the poilce thought the only witnesses to this didnt matter. reach your own finding on that one!

its really makes no difference with this info inregards to making it murder 2. what murray did was cover it up and showed guilt in doing so. murder 2 is about the death and how itwas caused. all this happened after mj was gone.it doesnt have anything to do with the actual cause of death which is what murder 2 is about.imo the pros would have to show mj was still there to go for murder 2 by gross disregard when murray was covering things up but the bead marks show mj was gone while on the bed.

couple of things. was fahemm (sp) in the room during the time murray was telling alberto to put things together. why didnt alberto ring 911 straight away. and its kinda been forgotton about murray going downstairs when he should have been doing cpr and asking for prince. did he run downstairs after alberto had been informed by amir? or did he run downstairs b4. in both coincedences why didnt murray tell someone to call 911 instead of asking for prince.instead he waited for alberto to be contacted by amir who wasnt even in the house
 
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I am going to go out on a limb and say Alvarez did not say anything about this in his first interview because he probably did not even consider it important. On June 26 we had no idea how Michael died everything was probably going so fast in that room he just did what he was told and probably did not even think about it. But after the news about Propofol started coming out he probably thought hey way a second that stuff I put in that bag that iv bag with a connector it had stuff in it that looked like milk oh no what did I do. This is just me thinking out loud
 
Justthefacts said:
I am going to go out on a limb and say Alvarez did not say anything about this in his first interview because he probably did not even consider it important. On June 26 we had no idea how Michael died everything was probably going so fast in that room he just did what he was told and probably did not even think about it. But after the news about Propofol started coming out he probably thought hey way a second that stuff I put in that bag that iv bag with a connector it had stuff in it that looked like milk oh no what did I do. This is just me thinking out loud
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It's very well possible,also he didn't change his version only added things he remembered later on, after insisting to talk to police as another user suggested.This to me it's not a sign of inconsistency but a normal reaction when you assist to something traumatic.
 
I am going to go out on a limb and say Alvarez did not say anything about this in his first interview because he probably did not even consider it important.
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i doubt what happened on the 25th with alberto and the police could even be called a interview. he talked to them very quickly and spent the next 2 months trying give them a proper interview. and yeah until the COD came out it wouldnt have been of much relevence anyway.
 
pug said:
"California Attorney General Jerry Brown's office has asked a court to suspend Murray's license pending the outcome of criminal proceedings against him."

The liar's license should have been revoked a long time ago.
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Thank god!

kasume said:
Katherine Jackson demands upgraded charge of second degree murder against son's doctor Conrad Murray


LOS ANGELES - Michael Jackson's mom is furious over new allegations that her son's doctor was more worried about hiding the drugs he was giving the King of Pop than saving his life.

Katherine Jackson, 79, is demanding an upgraded charge of second degree murder, her lawyer told the Daily News, after a report claiming Dr. Conrad Murray interrupted CPR to conceal drug evidence from paramedics.

"Mrs. Jackson never doubted that this man murdered her son, and these new revelations, if true, mean we need additional charges to fit the severity of his crimes," attorney Adam Streisand said.

"Second degree murder requires malice aforethought, which can be implied by the conduct of the defendant," he said yesterday. "The actions alleged suggest that Dr. Murray abandoned his duties as a physician or an ordinary human being to save himself rather than his patient."
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Please tell me the charges are going to be more than IM.
 
Please tell me the charges are going to be more than IM.
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i very much doubt it. unless something happens in the prelim. but the police had this info b4 charges were filed so...
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i very much doubt it. unless something happens in the prelim. but the police had this info b4 charges were filed so...
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yes we move closer to the 5th April though, just a week away.......
Whatever evidence they have will be gone through in fine detail. I am dreading it tbh
We wait.............:timer:
It's still going to be a long tough road...........:cry:
 
bgz said:
Okay, guess I'll say what I've seen personally throughout the years in dealing with pts that have died.

If the eyelids are even slightly open, we try to close them immediately, using saline drops if necessary, and then apply a cottom ball on the eyelid and tape the eyelid gently shut with paper tape. Very hard to close the eyelid and keep it closed if the cornea and inner eyelid is dry.

If the pt has been dead (hate using that word in this instance) and the eyelids are shut, you have to be careful in trying to open them since the natural eye moisture is no longer there.

The "wide open" statement I would tend to take with a grain of salt in this instance, versus that the eyeslids were (simply) open, unless Michael had been gone so long that there was no moisture left and his eyelids remained open after Murray checked them. My guess would be CM did check for pupillary response when he found Michael. What makes it sound as if Michael had been dead for more than a few minutes was that the eyelids did not close again after CM checked them, and why did CM not close them then himself unless the eyes were already very dry.

It's all conjecture to me at this point. I don't know why Alvarez took so long to report some of these things. Everything I read I have to just take in and wait until the trial gets underway to see/read all the aspects and nuances. That doesn't stop me from feeling that Michael was gone much longer than Murray's original statement indicated. Personally I think there is alot more that we don't know about than what we do know about, ie what's been released, etc. jmo
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Interesting read thank you for the info ;)

elusive moonwalker said:
because the police didnt want to talk to him. remember his lawyer had to basically go to the press and say my clients wants to talk to you back in august. there were articles from the time. for some reason the poilce thought the only witnesses to this didnt matter. reach your own finding on that one!

its really makes no difference with this info inregards to making it murder 2. what murray did was cover it up and showed guilt in doing so. murder 2 is about the death and how itwas caused. all this happened after mj was gone.it doesnt have anything to do with the actual cause of death which is what murder 2 is about.imo the pros would have to show mj was still there to go for murder 2 by gross disregard when murray was covering things up but the bead marks show mj was gone while on the bed.

couple of things. was fahemm (sp) in the room during the time murray was telling alberto to put things together. why didnt alberto ring 911 straight away. and its kinda been forgotton about murray going downstairs when he should have been doing cpr and asking for prince. did he run downstairs after alberto had been informed by amir? or did he run downstairs b4. in both coincedences why didnt murray tell someone to call 911 instead of asking for prince.instead he waited for alberto to be contacted by amir who wasnt even in the house
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VERY good points ;)
 
Billie_Jean09 said:
yes we move closer to the 5th April though, just a week away.......
Whatever evidence they have will be gone through in fine detail. I am dreading it tbh
We wait.............:timer:
It's still going to be a long tough road...........:cry:
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reports have said the prelim wont happen on the 5th just a hearing to set a date for it. and during the prelim u dont hear all the evidence. just a tiny bit as that is all that is needed to send the case to trial. we will prob hear in the prelim the info that has been leaked over the last week. thats enough for it to go to trial on its own.
 
God l have read through the thread, its like loosing Michael all over gain. Imagine the amount of information and evidence that will come later. I just feel sick. Of all the people Michael didn't deserve to go down like this :(
 
mjzfille said:
God l have read through the thread, its like loosing Michael all over gain. Imagine the amount of information and evidence that will come later. I just feel sick. Of all the people Michael didn't deserve to go down like this :(
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I agree Maf. The amount of evidence that is going to come out at the trial makes me feel sick. If all the bits we have got makes us feel this way then imagine what the trial is going to do. Michael never deserved this and we need to be as together as ever to get justice for him. We stuck together in 2005 for Michael and we need to stick together now. Michael isn't here anymore and we're fighting for him.
 
This is going to be a rough ride, not necessarily for the court date April 5th, but more so for what is to follow. Even for those of us that withstood the previous accusations and trials, this one won't be easy, imo, because I really think we are going to hear things we don't want to hear, no matter how factual or inaccurate.

My only wish is that we can stay strong, for Michael, his children/family, and for us. Be prepared for the worst, but hope for justice to prevail whenever and wherever possible. Some things we may hear may be true, and some things far from the truth.

Just as during the previous accusations and trials, a community can hold us together personally and as a collective. Personally I cannot let different factions of fans' intentions and actions totally derail seeking what I find to be the truth. Let us use our minds, respectfully interact, support each other despite disagreements, and ultimately stay strong for the long road ahead.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS Witness -- Dr. Conrad Murray Hid Propofol

sloride said:
The Associated Press have reported the story in full:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MICHAEL_JACKSON?SITE=NJMOR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Can't post the article due to AP copyright but the article is heartbreaking. How this isn't murder two is beyond me.
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Actually it's murder one, and involves more than just Murray but they should have really tried proving that from the start instead of covering things up for the money men that ordered the hit.
 
Murray hide the propofol? What? And Paris was there ? OMG .
He make me sick.
Murray hope you will go to hell!
 
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