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Conrad Murray : Michael Broke the Syringe / Key Witnesses Are Undermining Me!

Everything aside....wasn't Michael asleep when Murray left the room? How was he gonna magically wake himself up to inject himself with anything?

Has anyone ever been able to wake themselves up from an anesthesia at all?
 
Seems as he is implying that the propofol levels may actually have been higher than what the results show. ??
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yeah i think it was said the levels would have been higher cause they have time to go down by the time they do the tests
 
Ingelief said:
dear cinzia maybe if you are having doctors in different countrys it would be more diffecult, but in 1 country... always have the medical records first before even discribe heavy drugs.. maybe not asprins but have drugs certain
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The medical system is a lot different in America. It doesn't work the way it does in Holland.

Hate to say it, but in America (and I am sure in many other countries) if you have money, you can have anyone do anything for you. In Michael's case, if one doctor wasn't gonna do it, he could go to the next and try it there. There's medicine you can get without having a prescription, or get a prescription even if you don't really need it (Michael had his doctor prescribe medicine to 'friends' so they could pick it up for him).
 
Dutchie said:
In Michael's case, if one doctor wasn't gonna do it, he could go to the next and try it there.
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And the next might have done a much much better job, having at least the necessary medical and monitoring equipment for him, like he would have during HIStory tour. He was safe then.

The way some formulations are expressed make it seem like Michael was this uncontrollable idiot who cared about nothing but his sleep and would've done anything to get it. When he just needed to sleep so he can wake up for the gruesome rehearsal hours expecting him, then the tour.

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The way some formulations are expressed make it seem like Michael was this uncontrollable idiot who cared about nothing but his sleep and would've done anything to get it. When he just needed to sleep so he can wake up for the gruesome rehearsal hours expecting him, then the tour.

Huh?
 
What you've just read.

If it weren't for any tiresome rehearsals for any more tours, no Murrays would've been hired and all that, hence my "weird" association.
 
Dutchie said:
Everything aside....wasn't Michael asleep when Murray left the room? How was he gonna magically wake himself up to inject himself with anything?
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Exactly. According to what I've heard, if Murray was out of the room for two minutes and Michael was asleep then, then Michael wouldn't have been able to wake up and inject himself with that huge amount of propofol, put everything the way the investigators found it in the bedroom and get back in bed. It just couldn't be done. This is all my opinion though.
 
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Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
Exactly. According to what I've heard, if Murray was out of the room for two minutes and Michael was asleep then, then Michael wouldn't have been able to wake up and inject himself with that huge amount of propofol, put everything the way the investigators found it in the bedroom and get back in bed. It just couldn't be done. This is all my opinion though.
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My opinion too. It just doesn't make sense
 
Alma said:
And the next might have done a much much better job, having at least the necessary medical and monitoring equipment for him, like he would have during HIStory tour. He was safe then.

The way some formulations are expressed make it seem like Michael was this uncontrollable idiot who cared about nothing but his sleep and would've done anything to get it. When he just needed to sleep so he can wake up for the gruesome rehearsal hours expecting him, then the tour.

...
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Michael wanted to sleep. Desperately, so he could get through rehearsals but also to get through his life. Michael was using it in the 90's too. He could have been killed then.

If you want to call him an uncontrollable idiot, then that's your thing. I just try to understand him, and from what I understand someone pointed him to Propofol to help him 'sleep'. We all know propofol is not something you can just 'get' for use at home.....so Michael found a way to get it, through Murray (who should have told Michael to stay away from that ish instead of injecting it into his body and eventually killing him with it) who sadly did "anything for money".
 
It doesn't make sense because it didn't happen. Murray is a liar.. and from what I've read the infusing of propofol must remain in order to keep the patient sedated. According to experts 25 mg would not have done anything to MJ. So Murray is lying. He claims after the propofol MJ finally fell asleep and he stayed by his side for 10 minutes before relieving himself. So within that 2 minute timeframe Murray is saying MJ woke up wide eyed and bushy tailed and got an IV ready and injected himself and sat all the stuff back on the table all nice and neat? Murray is a killer and a liar
 
Dutchie said:
Michael wanted to sleep. Desperately, so he could get through rehearsals but also to get through his life. Michael was using it in the 90's too. He could have been killed then.

If you want to call him an uncontrollable idiot, then that's your thing. I just try to understand him, and from what I understand someone pointed him to Propofol to help him 'sleep'. We all know propofol is not something you can just 'get' for use at home.....so Michael found a way to get it, through Murray (who should have told Michael to stay away from that ish instead of injecting it into his body and eventually killing him with it) who sadly did "anything for money".
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I totally agree with this.
Especially because we all know propofol is not meant for you to have a good nap. It's just just in surgery. Not to get some sleep every night.
All these nasty greedy doctors played a part on this too, imo.
 
StacyJ said:
It doesn't make sense because it didn't happen. Murray is a liar.. and from what I've read the infusing of propofol must remain in order to keep the patient sedated. According to experts 25 mg would not have done anything to MJ. So Murray is lying. He claims after the propofol MJ finally fell asleep and he stayed by his side for 10 minutes before relieving himself. So within that 2 minute timeframe Murray is saying MJ woke up wide eyed and bushy tailed and got an IV ready and injected himself and sat all the stuff back on the table all nice and neat? Murray is a killer and a liar
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Accurate summary. :agree:
 
I really hope the prosecutors do a good job at portraying MJ as the victim that he is.. They need to focus on MJ being used and taken advantage of by Murray for greed. Make a point at telling the jurors that Murray knew what propofol was, what it's used for and what could happen if not done properly but he didn't care about his patient, he only cared about his patients' money. This point needs to be stressed!
 
and if the results from this so called fingerprint analysis comes back not in favor of what Murray and his team is looking for then what?? what will be the next line of defense for them..are they going to claim MJ was wearing his white glove??
 
StacyJ said:
I really hope the prosecutors do a good job at portraying MJ as the victim that he is.. They need to focus on MJ being used and taken advantage of by Murray for greed. Make a point at telling the jurors that Murray knew what propofol was, what it's used for and what could happen if not done properly but he didn't care about his patient, he only cared about his patients' money. This point needs to be stressed!
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Yes, this is truee too!
 
StacyJ said:
and if the results from this so called fingerprint analysis comes back not in favor of what Murray and his team is looking for then what?? what will be the next line of defense for them..are they going to claim MJ was wearing his white glove??
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ROTFLOL! Thank you, I needed that!

Simply put, it seems the defense is rolling out one hypothesis more ridiculous than the last one. One would think they MUST be going somewhere with all of this but I dunno. As you so well noted, none of these fairy tales come even close to the core of this sad event: negligence by the doctor. Overwhelming, sheer, utter and total carelessness...murray abandoned Michael when he was at his most vulnerable, helpless and absolutely dependent on his doctor for his well being, for his life. No matter how F, C and G want to spin this, nothing will change this. Even if they try to go down the yellow brick road of an unknown person sneaking into the bedroom and offing Michael while the good doctor was in the bathroom, it doesn't change the 'fact' that by his own words, murray left him alone.
 
Murray isn´t charged for murder, but negligence.
If he leaves a sedated patient alone without anything/anyone to monitor him/her then at least I think it´s negligence.

If Murray left a syringe with propofol there then I think it´s close to murder
 
Justthefacts said:
The way some formulations are expressed make it seem like Michael was this uncontrollable idiot who cared about nothing but his sleep and would've done anything to get it. When he just needed to sleep so he can wake up for the gruesome rehearsal hours expecting him, then the tour.

Huh?
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hopeless case , don't even try

" he wanted to go through life that's why he used propofol" :smilerolleyes:

*sigh*
 
Soundmind said:
hopeless case , don't even try

" he wanted to go through life that's why he used propofol" :smilerolleyes:

*sigh*
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It's a fact that Michael had trouble sleeping, not just during rehearsals or on tour. I don't understand why you're reacting like this. I really don't. Why is it bad for me (or anyone else) to have understanding for the fact he couldn't sleep?

Michael's mind never stopped, he would lay awake at night with music in his head....and, he had a LOT to worry about. Michael wasn't stupid, he knew that there were people out there who wanted him dead....so it's really not so strange that he couldn't sleep.

Anyway.....maybe we should agree to disagree.:scratch:
 
OK to be fair on both sides here, if Murray REALLY IS innocent, then of course they would be trying frantically to work out what happened, now Michael's fingerprint on that syringe is damning evidence that this may have been a suicide, if it was a suicide i would ask how did MJ get the syringe? was Murray told by Michael that he wanted death? Questions questions questions.

On the other side, Dr Murray could have easily have wiped his own fingerprints from the Syringe and closed MJ's fingers around it, possibly applying enough force to break it? On top of this, we must ask the question is that why they changed their mind about presenting the video evidence? does this video evidence prove Murray's guilt? Questions questions questions.

Only time will tell, i'm still undecided about what occurred, i'm waiting for the trial so i can hear the evidence (albiet limited) to make a formal decision
 
StacyJ said:
and if the results from this so called fingerprint analysis comes back not in favor of what Murray and his team is looking for then what?? what will be the next line of defense for them..are they going to claim MJ was wearing his white glove??
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:lol:
Don't go giving them ideas!!!! :toofunny:

(now seriously... we have heard / read so much crap from these defense guys... what a shame :ninja:)
 
OK to be fair on both sides here, if Murray REALLY IS innocent, then of course they would be trying frantically to work out what happened
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Interesting POV. However, murray's camp have had over 20 months to work on this. Why does it seem as if they are just now actually doing anything?

And just what would murray be innocent of? Giving propofol in a home? Not having adequate monitoring equipment? Being on the phone when he was supposed to be focusing solely on his sedated patient? Leaving his sedated patient alone? Performing crap CPR? And on and on...
Somehow, I just don't see murray as an innocent man here.
 
oh...so MJ DID NOT drink the proposal after all?

What a relief...Thank you, defense.

They are more pathetic than Oxman, if that is even possible.
 
larry141094 said:
OK to be fair on both sides here, if Murray REALLY IS innocent, then of course they would be trying frantically to work out what happened
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see the thing is if he was innocent (meaning didn't give the last dose of propofol) then why the cover up? He could have simply been honest upfront explaining everything.
 
Dutchie said:
If you want to call him an uncontrollable idiot, then that's your thing.
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The way you expressed yourself strongly suggested that he's like this junkie who would doctor shop. Sorry for taking this the wrong way, but it's how it looked. It was not I who suggested it, I am understanding Michael more than I'd care to prove ... I am more than aware of propofol not being for use at home or for insomnia. Yet I don't have to repeat that and go on this "He was naive too" route.
 
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ivy said:
see the thing is if he was innocent (meaning didn't give the last dose of propofol) then why the cover up? He could have simply been honest upfront explaining everything.
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Cover up plus he withdrew the info on propofol and telling the story about only small dosage two days after. What kind of credibility does this guy have? None. He would need to explain that as well, among many other things.
 
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