Invincible appreciation thread

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Yes, it is much better than many people thought. Including myself. Generally, I more often listen to other Michael songs than the ones from Invincible. I don't know, I think even if I don't want it i'm a bit biased because so much went wrong in this era.

Yesterday, I gave a few tracks a listen. Some tracks you have to really "get into" to appreciate them, like heartbreaker, which is really brilliant 2:00 minutes onwards. I even heard background vocals I never heard before. Would love to have the acapella and instrumental.
That said, the album is great and every track in itself is good if you really listen, but the album is too long in the end. Therefore some tracks should go (or be bonus tracks.)/maybe track order changed.
IMO this album is a "night album", sounds way better at night, really!

Fingers crossed for an anniversary edition with bonus material.
I suggest this track order which maybe could give the album a twist.

1. Unbreakable
2. 2000 Watts
3. Butterflies
4. YRMW
5. Speechless
6. Heaven Can Wait
7. Invincible
8. Don't walk away
(9. Privacy)
(10. Cry)
11. Break of Dawn
12. Whatever Happens
(13. You are my life), maybe replace it with Shout
14. Heartbreaker
15. Lost children
16. Threatend

Privacy, Cry, You are my life could be cut do to lenght issues.
 
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Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I wanted to do acapella versions of Unbreakable, Invincible and Heartbreaker, but my school is in the way :p
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Na, admittedly I get defensive when it comes to invincible because it's usually the opposite. If you LIKE invincible more than other albums then you're not just a lower class of a fan but you're nuts and have poor tastes lol.

Great response :)

Never thought of it that way.
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

For an album that's apparently so underrated it sure get's talked about a lot
 
Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

For an album that's apparently so underrated it sure get's talked about a lot

It is hugely underrated and that's why we are talking about it. I've never heard that any of Quincy produced albums are underrated. I'd say that OTW is overrated and if I have to pick a pack OTW-Thriller-Bad or Dangerous-HIStory-Invincible I would choose Dangerous-HIStory-Invincible.
 
So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

@xscape2041 yes! to invincible being a night album. I always thought that.

That said, I must be the only one who doesn't give a flying hoot about album length or even cohesiveness to a degree lol. I might be kicking the validity of my entire opinion in the foot by saying that haha. Maybe cuz I didn't grow up in the generation of listening to albums all the way through or the importance of that... But to me as long as it's good stuff, I really don't care how much of the good stuff I get at once.

Naturally there will be some songs I'm in the mood for listening to more than others so I'll skip them, but for me, it really doesn't matter what album it is - even if it's my favorite - I will most likely skip some songs.

And maybe that's why dangerous-history-invincible are my gems. More MJ goodness in one hearty sitting lol yes invincible is a long album and so is dangerous (my fav album of mj's ever), but after I got done listening to both for the first time , one thought that didn't come to my head was "damn, that was long ." Lol in fact I always think "damn, that's it?? gimmie more!" Lol
 
Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

Hey,

I was wondering if i was the only one in this world to love this album at this point. Each Time, i read a bad appreciation, i can't help but think that this album is misunderstood and is, in fact, way much better that people realize.

Of course, I know that it's the way we react each time that we like something which went "under the radar" for anybody else.

Anyway, this album is my favorite. I'm 40 years old and I'm a fan since 1985.

Hope this thread will bring Positivity with this LP...

Thanks.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

Another Invincible Thread? Michael Jackson's most underrated album folks! lol
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

To be honest, I don't think Invincible is underrated within the fan community. I swear it's actually his most dissected and discussed album on this forum. There is another thread about it every week. I'd actually rather like some focus on MJ's other albums, because I sometimes feel like Invincible is the only one that is getting discussed over and over again, while there is a lot less focus on everything else.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I think Invincible is overrated within the fan community. I'd also say that Off The Wall is underrated within the fan community
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I still listen to Invincible a lot, lately it's been on a daily basis. I don't think it's overrated by the fan community at all, I think a lot of fans (myself included) feel it was unfairly overlooked by the critics and the general public upon its initial release, so we feel a bit defensive over this record for that reason.

For me personally it is the album I have played the most since his passing and as much as I enjoy hearing Michael's unreleased material, all the posthumous releases that have come post-2009 have only highlighted just how underappreciated Invincible was by both the fans and the general public back in 2001.

I mean, we are forteen years on from the albums release and songs like Butterflies, Unbreakable, Whatever Happens, Speechless and Heartbreaker haven't dated one bit. Think about how dated Bad sounded by 2001 (fourteen years after its release). Invincible is like a fine wine - it gets better with age.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I agree ! Except "Lover nefer felt so good", and the "Bad" outtakes, nothin released after 2009 matches Invincible.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I agree ! Except "Lover nefer felt so good", and the "Bad" outtakes, nothin released after 2009 matches Invincible.

I'm sorry but i don't agree, 'Hollywood Tonight' is better than any song on 'Invincible, IMHO.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I heard Invincible in a studio, it was really an amazing experience, I wish I could do it more often.

Do it, if you have the chance..!!!
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I still listen to Invincible a lot, lately it's been on a daily basis. I don't think it's overrated by the fan community at all, I think a lot of fans (myself included) feel it was unfairly overlooked by the critics and the general public upon its initial release, so we feel a bit defensive over this record for that reason.

For me personally it is the album I have played the most since his passing and as much as I enjoy hearing Michael's unreleased material, all the posthumous releases that have come post-2009 have only highlighted just how underappreciated Invincible was by both the fans and the general public back in 2001.

I mean, we are forteen years on from the albums release and songs like Butterflies, Unbreakable, Whatever Happens, Speechless and Heartbreaker haven't dated one bit. Think about how dated Bad sounded by 2001 (fourteen years after its release). Invincible is like a fine wine - it gets better with age.

I guess I am one of the ones who never listen to Invincible-however, I do listen to "Butterflies" a few times a week. Maybe more than a few. Love that song. Oh, really love Break of Dawn too and of course, YRMW.

I appreciate that so many people appreciate the album, though.
And for me, Bad never sounds dated-not in 2001 and not now.
 
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Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I love the album.

It's been a while since I heard it thru from beginning to end.

But there are many songs from Invincible I hear on a daily basis. - Speechless, Don't Walk Away, Break of Dawn, Heaven can Wait, Lost Children, Whatever Happens and Threatned - and YRMW and Butterflies. - Those songs are all on my playlist.


Dangerous is my all time favorite album - Invincible could very well be nr. 2. - that or BAD.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

While History is my favourite, I love Invincible. Not one track I don't like and don't listen to on a regular basis.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I agree ! Except "Lover nefer felt so good", and the "Bad" outtakes, nothin released after 2009 matches Invincible.

I have listened to and enjoyed Xscape in twelve months much more than Invincible in 14 years.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I respect if you consider Invincible your favorite album but, was it necessary another thread?
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I once was addicted to that album. Back when we still had Michael. But ever since what had happen to him. That album no longer exist to me. Well I try very hard to forget that album ever existed.:( But despite the hatred that I have for that album now. I do miss listening to it. But I can not listen to that album. Not when it has a song called Heaven Can Wait on it. And that was my most favorite song on that album. That and Whatever Happens. And because of those 2 songs on that album. Is why I try very hard to forget that MJ album ever even existed. I truly wish now Michael never made that album.:(
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

To be honest, I don't think Invincible is underrated within the fan community. I swear it's actually his most dissected and discussed album on this forum. There is another thread about it every week. I'd actually rather like some focus on MJ's other albums, because I sometimes feel like Invincible is the only one that is getting discussed over and over again, while there is a lot less focus on everything else.

This! Not even Dangerous, HIStory and BOTDF get such attention.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

To be honest, I don't think Invincible is underrated within the fan community. I swear it's actually his most dissected and discussed album on this forum. There is another thread about it every week. I'd actually rather like some focus on MJ's other albums, because I sometimes feel like Invincible is the only one that is getting discussed over and over again, while there is a lot less focus on everything else.

I think it is because it is Michael's most recent release.


You only have to look at the unreleased material.... the most sought-after era by a large majority of fans is from 1998-2009. The fans are desperate to get their hands on any songs which stem from this timeframe.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

Invincible is my least favorite album from Michael, so I don't think it is underrated. I believe more focus should placed on his pre-Thriller work, especially Off The Wall and The Jackson's material.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I think it is because it is Michael's most recent release.


You only have to look at the unreleased material.... the most sought-after era by a large majority of fans is from 1998-2009. The fans are desperate to get their hands on any songs which stem from this timeframe.

Maybe. Probably it's also the fact that it's MJ's most controversial album within the fan base so there is also much discussion about whether it was a good album or not. I do think it had more potential and in a way yes, it is overlooked. Butterflies, Whatever Happens, Threatened and Unbreakable (or at least 2 or 3 of those) would and should have been genuine hits if the media and Sony had treated MJ more fairly and more professionally at the time. On the other hand, as an overall album, I do think that some of the criticism is justified. I also think it's the least MJ-sounding album of all of his albums and others' sounds dominate it instead of his, which I have a problem with as a fan. That doesn't mean I do not listen to it and I do not like several of its songs - and I especially love MJ's vocals on it which is so heartfelt and soulful.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

Maybe. Probably it's also the fact that it's MJ's most controversial album within the fan base so there is also much discussion about whether it was a good album or not. I do think it had more potential and in a way yes, it is overlooked. Butterflies, Whatever Happens, Threatened and Unbreakable (or at least 2 or 3 of those) would and should have been genuine hits if the media and Sony had treated MJ more fairly and more professionally at the time. On the other hand, as an overall album, I do think that some of the criticism is justified. I also think it's the least MJ-sounding album of all of his albums and others' sounds dominate it instead of his, which I have a problem with as a fan. That doesn't mean I do not listen to it and I do not like several of its songs - and I especially love MJ's vocals on it which is so heartfelt and soulful.

Well, I see Invincible a little differently to albums like Dangerous or HIStory.


Obviously MJ used a lot of outside songwriters and producers for Invincible, far more so than any album since Thriller. But I don't see that as a black mark against the album. Nobody criticises songs like Human Nature, Man In The Mirror, YANA, Thriller, Rock With You, She's Out Of My Life, PYT, Baby Be Mine, Why You Wanna Trip On Me, Gone Too Soon etc for being drafted in from outside sources. Is Show You The Way To Go or I'll Be There any less of a MJ classic just because he didn't write them?


Invincible still has MJ's stamp all over it IMO. Songs like Unbreakable, Threatened, Xscape and Privacy for example don't sound anything like the songs Darkchild wrote and produced for any other artists and I personally think it's easy to imagine these songs fitting in very well on albums like HIStory and Dangerous.


And then you have songs like Speechless, YRMW and The Lost Children which have that vintage MJ sound. Nobody else sounds like that.


I do get the impression with songs like Butterflies, You Are My Life and Whatever Happens MJ just came in and laid down his vocals and had little else to do with the track. But when the vocal is as magnificent as it is on those songs then who really cares?


The only two songs which I feel MJ kind of coasted it are 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away.


I think a lot of fans perhaps felt a sense of disappointment after MJ's songwriting playing such a prominant role on Bad, Dangerous, HIStory and the new tracks on BOTD. But Michael was never an egotist when it came to hogging all the credit. His two most acclaimed albums (Thriller and OTW) both feature only a small handful of MJ songwriting credits, mixed in with tracks from outside songwriters and nobody complains about those albums.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

It's not just about others writing songs. But the overall sound of an album. Even if qualtitively MJ wrote "only" three songs for OTW and four for Thriller those dominated those albums and were the defining tracks of those albums. The MJ-penned songs made those albums. I mean Thriller would not have been Thriller and the same acclaimed album without Beat It, Billie Jean and WBSS. OTW's lead single and first Nr. 1. was the MJ-penned DSTYGE and IMO the tracks written by him were the album's best (DSTYGE, Working Day and Night, Get On The Floor). But with Invincible I just do not get that feeling. The MJ-penned songs are more fillers and the dominant sound is that of Darkchild's and others'. Also even though you have a Quincy Jones-stamp on OTW/Thriller/Bad (and there is some Teddy Riley sound on Dangerous, some Jam&Lewis on HIStory), but usually a song was written or produced by one or two people and so MJ's essence is dominant on each of his other albums IMO. On Invincible you have five-six people writing and co-producing most songs which IMO makes it easier for MJ's sound to get lost in it all. I just do not feel MJ had his heart in it like he did on previous albums.
 
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Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

It's not just about others writing songs. But the overall sound of an album. Even if qualtitively MJ wrote "only" three songs for OTW and four for Thriller those dominated those albums and were the defining tracks of those albums. The MJ-penned songs made those albums. I mean Thriller would not have been Thriller without Beat It, Billie Jean and WBSS. OTW's lead single and first Nr. 1. was the MJ-penned DSTYGE and IMO the tracks written by him were the album's best (DSTYGE, Working Day and Night, Get On The Floor). But with Invincible I just do not get that feeling. The MJ-penned songs are more fillers and the dominant sound is that of Darkchild's and others'. Also even though you have a Quincy Jones-stamp on OTW/Thriller/Bad (and there is some Teddy Riley sound on Dangerous, some Jam&Lewis on HIStory), but usually a song was written or produced by one or two people and so MJ's essence is dominant on each of his other albums IMO. On Invincible you have five-six people writing and co-producing most songs which IMO makes it easier for MJ's sound to get lost in it all.

I wouldn't consider either Speechless or The Lost Children to be fillers personally, infact I would say they are amongst the best on the album (as MJ's self-penned songs often are). I do feel a song like Hollywood Tonight which typifies MJ's sound could've made all the difference to the overall shape of the record and like you pointed out, could've been the DSTYGE or Billie Jean of Invincible (ie, MJ's baby of the album).



I see no difference in the Darkchild-produced dominant sound on Invincible and the New Jack Swing influence Teddy Riley bought to Dangerous. Infact, I see many similarities in the first half of Invincible and the first half of Dangerous and I would even go so far as to say that the first half of Invincible trounces the first half of Dangerous. To me, the problems with Invincible stem from an unfocused second half.


I don't feel MJ's sound is lost, I just feel the second half didn't quite match up to the first half and seemed a little hap-hazard in the way it was put together.
 
Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I wouldn't consider either Speechless or The Lost Children to be fillers personally, infact I would say they are amongst the best on the album (as MJ's self-penned songs often are). I do feel a song like Hollywood Tonight which typifies MJ's sound could've made all the difference to the overall shape of the record and like you pointed out, could've been the DSTYGE or Billie Jean of Invincible (ie, MJ's baby of the album).

I do not have as much of a problem with The Lost Children as some fans seem to, I actually like it, but it's not single material. I'm less of a fan of Speechless than most fans seem to. But whatever one's personal taste is: both are ballads and not so much single material IMO.

I see no difference in the Darkchild-produced dominant sound on Invincible and the New Jack Swing influence Teddy Riley bought to Dangerous. Infact, I see many similarities in the first half of Invincible and the first half of Dangerous and I would even go so far as to say that the first half of Invincible trounces the first half of Dangerous. To me, the problems with Invincible stem from an unfocused second half.

To me Dangerous takes NJS to another level, the same way OTW takes disco to another level. When I listen to other old NJS songs from that era (incl. Teddy's works with other artists) it just makes it clear how much MJ improved that sound on Dangerous and how much he made it his own. I just do not feel the same way about Invincible.

ETA: Also Dangerous has MJ-penned masterpieces like Who Is It, Will You Be There, Give In To Me (I know the latter was co-written). Black or White is not my fave on the album, but it is its only Nr 1 song and it was also written by MJ. So even with the NJS sound of the first part there are a lot of very uniquely MJ-style songs on it and ones which made good singles and are even considered among MJ's very best songs by many fans. Invincible just lacks that.
 
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Re: Who else is addicted to Invincible 14 years after...

I always thought Speechless could've been a massive hit.


I remember once queueing up in a record shop soon after the album was released and they were playing Invincible over the counter. Speechless came on and the lady in front of me in the queue asked who it was. The cashier told her it was the new Michael Jackson album and she said something like "and this is one of the songs from it? I might have to get it."


I nearly kissed her. Lol. Haha.
 
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