July 28, 2009 Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

[london]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

he did...which is AFTER midnight....goes with what they are saying....if he practiced until 1:30 and got the drug at 2:00 am, it's AFTER midnight...what's the confusion?

after midnight feels like 12.20am for me whereas i feel 2 hours is a stretch of the margin. but, sure, i could be perceiving it incorrectly.

 

[michaels wendy bird]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Me to danielle it just wont sink in none of it hugs hun xxx

Sending u lots of hugs back!! I just dont think i can handle all this news!I read it because i want to know what happened but then i remember who it happened to, sorry i am going off topic!!

 

[MeggyKateGutermuth]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I wish to GOD they would arrest this POS already! I need him arrested charged, tried, convicted and sentenced like YESTERDAY.

Well said, I agree! And think of all the other people he could've done crap like this to! He needs to be put away for life!

 

[wendy2004]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

wait a minute. mj rehearsed until after midnight didn't he? at-least after 2am? can someone clear this up for me?

Yeah, I thought Karen Faye said he finished at 1:30am?

Well, 1:30am is technically after midnight. 2am is after midnight as well. Whenever it was, it was after midnight and more than likely before sunrise IF Michael was trying to get 8 hours. My question is can a person be under propofol for that long? I thought it was mainly used for knocking ppl out for short surgical procedures. 8 hours just seems like a long time to have that dripping into his veins.

I'm sure the doctor LEFT the room and abandoned Michael... because why do all reports conclude that he "found" Michael comatose and not breathing? So, IMO he can't just have fallen asleep in the same room, so he must have gone somewhere else far away from Michael...

Worst of all is if he left the room and then fell asleep in another room. What if he LEFT the house to go have an affair or some really random crap! Ugh!

I hate this. I sensed it was true when that nurse first came forward. Her report gave me chills. The nightmare I had is coming true.

The question now is was this really an accident?! How long was Michael really dead before this creepo mofo got someone to call 911? I hope the coroners are able to set the time of death properly based on MJ's body temperature...which I understand is how they can confirm such things. I swear fo God if that report says Michael had been dead for 2 or more hours than we all suspected (edit: meaning 2-3 hours before 911 was called) , it's gonna be on like popcorn. It will mean this is all a lot more sinister and NO accident. :angry:

 

[JaneBender]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I remember reading that a person can be under diprovan for hours and the thing that appeals to many doctors and patients about the drug is that once it's turned off in the system it doesn't take long for the patient to regain lucidity and clarity as can happen with other anesthesia meds. This might explain the appeal of the drug to MJ.

 

[sunnyday81]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I remember reading that a person can be under diprovan for hours and the thing that appeals to many doctors and patients about the drug is that once it's turned off in the system it doesn't take long for the patient to regain lucidity and clarity as can happen with other anesthesia meds. This might explain the appeal of the drug to MJ.

Yeah, I remember being under anesthesia many years ago for a minor surgery, and I woke up during the procedure! Thank God they hadn't started cutting me yet. I remember the doctor shouting something at another person (the anesthesiologist?) that I was awake (I really think the drug had stopped being administered for a moment and I woke up immediately)! Scary...

 

[MeggyKateGutermuth]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I'm sure they'll discuss all this on Larry King Live on CNN tonight. I got a twitter from Dr. Drew (not to me personally lol, though I wish!) and he said he's going to host it and talk about the Michael Jackson case tonight. He's a very, VERY honest person, straightforward, no-BS and he's a doctor, so he can explain a lot of this too.

 

[JaneBender]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Thanks for the heads up. I will definitely be watching...

 

[Topflux]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Its obvious this doctor was kinda guilty of what happened to Michael. But it wont be 'murder' imo.

The cause of Michaels death is probably the muscle relaxants and propofol together. Papers have falsely written that Michael should have been wakened up. Its not really true. Only if Michael had complications. Well, it doesnt change the fact the doctor should have been monitoring Michael and it looks like he wasnt fully.

So, just before midnight Michael took some muscle relaxants when preparing for propofol. Then the dr gave him lidocaine to ease the pain when injected. Then some after midnight he injected Michael and started to monitore him with EKG machines. After this propofol must be given continuously. Because the dr didnt have chance to infuse automatically he should have been waken through the night until Michael want to wake up. It went all well like seven hours or something but then either the dr gave Michael too much intentionally (to go sleeping himself and avoid the hourly injections) or fell in sleep accidentically. That we dont know or actually no one but the dr knows. The dr should have known that the relaxants could higher the risk of something happening to Michael. Plus the possible higher dose was dangerous for Michael. I think its definitely not a murder because the dr didnt want to kill Michael intentionally but its a very serious manslaughter because what the dr did was highly risky and also he knew it. Its complete bs when he is saying he did nothing that could have killed Michael. Because his mistakes just did it and he knows it. Of course he is defending himself but all the circumstances and evidences show its very hard or even impossible already...

 

[lisedea]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I am tired of all those reports or articles based on "source close the investigation" or "source close to the family". I want to know who are those sources. If someone said something or has something to say particularly to the press, just come forward or identify yourself and speak. Do not hide behind the cover of anonymity. It is too easy. In that case, everybody can be " a source close of the investigation" or "source close of the family". I can be one as well if I want!

 

[ParisKatherine]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Why would the propofol kill him? Its allowed to be dripped through the iv for 8 hours is that right? then u switch it off and the patient wakes up? does it mean MJ was on it for too long or Murray gave an overdose?

 

[Sifa_Dias]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Sigh, man I wished Michael would've listened more to those warning about that stuff. Damn.

 

[wendy2004]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I hope they arrest this guy soon for negligent homicide or whatever. I hope he gets due process (where he goest up the river, of course) and MJ's family sues him every which way but Sunday so that whenever he is released from prison, there is not a place he could work where his money won't go them. If he's relegated to flipping burgers, the Jacksons should get all his fry money. He needs to go down.

Also, if he wasn't allowed to prescribe cough syrup in the State of California becuz his DEA license wasn't updated in order for him to write major prescriptions, he sure as hell shouldn't have been allowed to put diprivan in Michael's veins. That's nowhere near cough syrup. That's another charge. Just start stacking them. They stacked all kinds of crap against MJ that they could think of, I hope they do the same with this guy.

 

[sweet princess]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Sigh, man I wished Michael wouldn't listened more to those warning about that stuff. Damn.

I don't blame you.

 

[Screamin]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

that dr didnt give a shit bout mj, iMurray will not even make it to the trial

 

[sunnyday81]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Why would the propofol kill him? Its allowed to be dripped through the iv for 8 hours is that right? then u switch it off and the patient wakes up? does it mean MJ was on it for too long or Murray gave an overdose?

I suppose something went wrong while the doctor was not there. Maybe the oxygen levels failed at some point, or maybe the breathing slowed down considerably but the doctor was not there to adjust the dose to a lower level... so many possibilities...

 

[wendy2004]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Why would the propofol kill him? Its allowed to be dripped through the iv for 8 hours is that right? then u switch it off and the patient wakes up? does it mean MJ was on it for too long or Murray gave an overdose?

He may have given MJ too much, meaning the wrong dosage from the get-go. Michael seemed to be losing weight at a rapid pace. And meds need to be administered based on the weight and height of a person. The dosage could have varied from time to time based on MJ's weight changes. However, if this guy gave him the same amount all the time without considering those changes, he could very well give too much. And if MJ started having breathing problems at some point or a possible overdose was causing his breathing to diminish, this idiot wasn't even in the room to begin administering help right away. Either he had fallen asleep or left the room to call his wife, hoochie, skeezer, whatever. Who knows why he wasn't IN the room with Michael at all times. He should have been. And I can't BELIEVE he solely relied on oxygen tanks as the only method of assistance for something going wrong. There had to be more equipmetnt in that room. If not, that's more negligence. STACK THEM CHARGES!!

 

[michaels wendy bird]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I hope they arrest this guy soon for negligent homicide or whatever. I hope he gets due process (where he goest up the river, of course) and MJ's family sues him every which way but Sunday so that whenever he is released from prison, there is not a place he could work where his money won't go them. If he's relegated to flipping burgers, the Jacksons should get all his fry money. He needs to go down.

Also, if he wasn't allowed to prescribe cough syrup in the State of California becuz his DEA license wasn't updated in order for him to write major prescriptions, he sure as hell shouldn't have been allowed to put diprivan in Michael's veins. That's nowhere near cough syrup. That's another charge. Just start stacking them. They stacked all kinds of crap against MJ that they could think of, I hope they do the same with this guy.

Agree!!!!!!!!

 

[eternitys_child]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

This has been talked about for a while though, right?

It actually was reported in the very first report of his death that came out that he had been given (and I forget the exact term) some sleeping medication. I believe at that time it was attributed to Murray but someone should verify that. Later articles brought up propofal. There was also an article claiming Michael used it (or something similar) during his history tour and we have the nurse who said Michael told her that doctors told him propofal was safe.

Murray saying that he didn't give him anything that 'should' have killed him would not have necessarily been a lie as administered correctly it is safe but it does have to be monitored (which is why it is not supposed to be used outside of an operating room where all of the proper equipment and awareness is available). I personally do not believe Murray intended to harm Michael but will wait for the final verdict on that.

Consider that his whole life Michael made people promise to not reveal information about him to others. Murray would certainly have promised Michael he would not reveal Michael's personal information. In addition, the fact that Murray would be in trouble for even having administered it much less Michael dying during a time it was administered would add to Murray's indecision/panic. If Michael had lost weight as we have heard perhaps that changed the impact of the dosage. My anesthetist friend had mentioned two things to me. The first I discounted although she insisted and that was that someone who had any nose surgery commonly would have trouble breathing through their nose. She was concerned it might have interfered with cpr. (I told her that I had read that MIchael's second surgery on his nose was for breathing and that if breathing through his nose was still a problem it would have impacted his singing which we know was fine.) The second I thing she said I did wonder if it had had some impact. She said when someone is very thin they often have electrolyte imbalance. That all by itself is enough to cause problems with the heart's rhythm. I keep wondering if somehow all of this worked together.

(BTW my freind pondered why he might have used propofal and answered herself that it was probably because you don't have a hangover effect with propofal. That is part of the result of it leaving your system so fast.)

Consider the doctors state of mind. He may have been negligent or just not as competent as another doctor might have been. Did he walk away when he should have stayed at Michael's side? I don't know. I hope not. Somehow that would make it all that much more painful. Maybe he just panicked and didn't think straight. I think we will have to wait a bit to get the last part of the story. I think it will come out in the end. I do not hate him... I feel sorry for him. I feel sorry most for Michael's kids and family. I hope they get closure. Hate won't bring Michael back.

I am just very sad. It shouldn't have happened. Michael should still be alive. His children should still have a father that is alive.

 

[Topflux]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Why would the propofol kill him? Its allowed to be dripped through the iv for 8 hours is that right? then u switch it off and the patient wakes up? does it mean MJ was on it for too long or Murray gave an overdose?

He definitely wasnt too long. You can be days on it. But you cant really says whats the 'overdose'. I think the dr gave him intentionally 'more' to avoid the next injection (to do something else himself) and Michael's body couldnt handle it. But its also connected to the relaxants and how much they were given to Michael before... I want to state that Michael wasnt infused but injected. Infusing would have been much safer.

 

[myfavouritewintercoat]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

We've talked about it for a while... maybe the press is finally catching up with us? :lol:

Though I'm still under the impression that the press are trying to bury this all under the banner of "MJ did drugs"

Yeah I bet they will and make the doc out to be someone in a panic instead of possibly working for someone else....

 

[MeggyKateGutermuth]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I am tired of all those reports or articles based on "source close the investigation" or "source close to the family". I want to know who are those sources. If someone said something or has something to say particularly to the press, just come forward or identify yourself and speak. Do not hide behind the cover of anonymity. It is too easy. In that case, everybody can be " a source close of the investigation" or "source close of the family". I can be one as well if want!

Exactly! And that's what irks me. If I was a member of the LAPD or the DEA or whoever investigating this case and something about it moved me so much that I had to go to the press, I had to get this news out there, I had to do this if no one else, for his fans...if I knew something *that* important and significant in my opinion, I would risk my name as well. I'd show my face and stand by my truth. Anonymity, especially in this case, just makes it seem dishonest in some way. In the words of John Lennon, gimme some truth! lol Please!

 

[Sifa_Dias]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

He definitely wasnt too long. You can be days on it. But you cant really says whats the 'overdose'. I think the dr gave him intentionally 'more' to avoid the next injection (to do something else himself) and Michael's body couldnt handle it. But its also connected to the relaxants and how much they were given to Michael before...

Isn't it an IV drop, not an injection?

 

[john13th]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I´ve read that Dr. Murray feel asleep when he performed the IV on Michael.

 

[Topflux]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I think the right would have been about 98 mg per hour. He was so thin.

 

[Topflux]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Isn't it an IV drop, not an injection?

Not necessarily. Its also injection. I heard that there were IV's in the room but they werent working...

 

[JaneBender]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this drug should NEVER have been given to MJ in his home. This is an anesthesia which is only supposed to be given in a hospital under an anesthesiologists care so he/she can monitor blood pressure, heart rate, breathing, all of those things. It is my belief that no matter how much Murray gave to MJ he shouldn't have given him ANY because it was illegal for him to do so under these circumstances.

 

[myfavouritewintercoat]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

All over the press now:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6729930.ece

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1617061/20090727/jackson_michael.jhtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/27/entertainment/michaeljackson/main5192350.shtml?tag=stack

http://www.mirror.co.uk/2009/07/28/...on-star-hours-after-collapse-115875-21552490/

It seems like the blame by the press will be laid on Michael for taking the drugs and the doctor made an accident I really don't think that is the 'whole truth' folks...

 

[JaneBender]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Topflux: Thank u for clearing that up. I wasn't aware it was an injection as well. I mean not that it makes it any better....but thank you.

 

[sunnyday81]

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I think the right would have been about 98 mg per hour. He was so thin.

Yeah, I think the fast weight loss must have contributed to his collapse too... Maybe the usual dose was too high now for his body mass...
God! Where was Michael's guardian angel when this happened? :no: