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Lets Discuss BAD concerts footage and what may have been shot on film ?

Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Galactus123 said:
Umatic can be very good quality:

Remember 720p. :)
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It's not Umatic. I hate when Beta tapes are mislabelled as umatics because umatics CAN'T be of such quality.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Rudolf said:
It's not Umatic. I hate when Beta tapes are mislabelled as umatics because umatics CAN'T be of such quality.
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Sorry my mistake. Then they should release beta tape concerts if they don't have the films. I hope they have. :)

Edit: I thought they used Umatics in Bad Tour. They only mentioned them in Bad 25 announcements.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Another Bad Tour show won't be released any time soon and complaining about it will not help in any way. The fact of the matter is the we now have a Bad Tour show, and it's best if we enjoy it rather than complain about it. Because corporations do not yield to the requests and discontents of one person. There's no arguing that better-quality footage exists, whether in full or in snippets but the fact is that Wembley had the best audi and decent VHS/OK Umatic quality
 
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Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Even if they ever dig film reels out, it's another issue if they find them all.
(Just like Jesta wrote, in Queens' case there are even some releases where songs are not completely).

Locating, developing/digitalising, restoring, cutting, etc. etc. Film reels are not like a HDD where things might be easier to handle.
To give an example what's my film reels vs. HDD-recording is about:
35mm film is capable to produce Full HD image and higher (1080p+).
1 reel of 35mm film can capture about 11min. (standard size for a 35mm reel is 305 meters, which is ca. 11min. at 24 fps, by duplicating the framerate the length of capturing is halved to 5min. 30sec.). Afterwards the reel has to be changed. So every 11 mins. the reel of each recorder/camera has to be changed.
At a concert of 2 hours this means ca. 12 reels per camera. If they captured the concert with let's say 5 film cameras (1 in the middle of the venue, 2 right in front of the stage, 1 on stage, 1 crane) this is a total of 60 reels for one concert. 60 reels have a total length of 18,300 meters (18.3 kilometers!).
Remember this estimation is for 24 fps, if they recorded with 50 fps the amount of film reels is ca. twice as much.
1 meter 35mm film = ca. 2.2 sec. at 24 fps or ca. 1.1 sec. at 50 fps.

They need to find all of them, if not songs might not be in full. Maybe they changed the reels after every single song which produces of course even more reels than my estimated 60.


So when they finally find all reels they can start digitalising. Nowadays developing 1 meter film reel costs ca. 1.20 US-$/meter. Sure a company like Sony can do it themselves or get better deals. This might be the cheapest thing (I guess Sony would pay much less than 20k US-$). Then starts digital restoration, cutting and editing, audio etc. etc.
 
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MichaelD said:
Even if they ever dig film reels out, it's another issue if they find them all.
(Just like Jesta wrote, in Queens' case there are even some releases where songs are not completely).

Locating, developing/digitalising, restoring, cutting, etc. etc. Film reels are not like a HDD where things might be easier to handle.
To give an example what's my film reels vs. HDD-recording is about:
35mm film is capable to produce Full HD image and higher (1080p+).
1 reel of 35mm film can capture about 11min. (standard size for a 35mm reel is 305 meters, which is ca. 11min. at 24 fps, by duplicating the framerate the length of capturing is halved to 5min. 30sec.). Afterwards the reel has to be changed. So every 11 mins. the reel of each recorder/camera has to be changed.
At a concert of 2 hours this means ca. 12 reels per camera. If they captured the concert with let's say 5 film cameras (1 in the middle of the venue, 2 right in front of the stage, 1 on stage, 1 crane) this is a total of 60 reels for one concert. 60 reels have a total length of 18,300 meters (18.3 kilometers!).
Remember this estimation is for 24 fps, if they recorded with 50 fps the amount of film reels is ca. twice as much.
1 meter 35mm film = ca. 2.2 sec. at 24 fps or ca. 1.1 sec. at 50 fps.

They need to find all of them, if not songs might not be in full. Maybe they changed the reels after every single song which produces of course even more reels than my estimated 60.


So when they finally find all reels they can start digitalising. Nowadays developing 1 meter film reel costs ca. 1.20 US-$/meter. Sure a company like Sony can do it themselves or get better deals. This might be the cheapest thing (I guess Sony would pay much less than 20k US-$). Then starts digital restoration, cutting and editing, audio etc. etc.
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Awesome info! Thanks!
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

You're welcome!

My example was if all reels are given.

But as for now it seems the Estate doen't even have all reels indicated (I don't know the current state of this process).
We - the fans - know that there are some concerts that were shot on film. Some concerts in parts (just a few songs), some in their entirety.

If the reels aren't proper cataloguized in the first place (e.g. "location, date, cam #1, reel #1") it's hard to match the same concert as all reels have to be observed and re-indicated.

Just imagine to find and indicating 60-120 reels belonging to one concert among hundreds, or even thousands of reels just for the BAD tour, when they are not proper indicated. It's a tough job but obviously not impossible.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

MichaelD said:
Even if they ever dig film reels out, it's another issue if they find them all.
(Just like Jesta wrote, in Queens' case there are even some releases where songs are not completely).

Locating, developing/digitalising, restoring, cutting, etc. etc. Film reels are not like a HDD where things might be easier to handle.
To give an example what's my film reels vs. HDD-recording is about:
35mm film is capable to produce Full HD image and higher (1080p+).
1 reel of 35mm film can capture about 11min. (standard size for a 35mm reel is 305 meters, which is ca. 11min. at 24 fps, by duplicating the framerate the length of capturing is halved to 5min. 30sec.). Afterwards the reel has to be changed. So every 11 mins. the reel of each recorder/camera has to be changed.
At a concert of 2 hours this means ca. 12 reels per camera. If they captured the concert with let's say 5 film cameras (1 in the middle of the venue, 2 right in front of the stage, 1 on stage, 1 crane) this is a total of 60 reels for one concert. 60 reels have a total length of 18,300 meters (18.3 kilometers!).
Remember this estimation is for 24 fps, if they recorded with 50 fps the amount of film reels is ca. twice as much.
1 meter 35mm film = ca. 2.2 sec. at 24 fps or ca. 1.1 sec. at 50 fps.

They need to find all of them, if not songs might not be in full. Maybe they changed the reels after every single song which produces of course even more reels than my estimated 60.


So when they finally find all reels they can start digitalising. Nowadays developing 1 meter film reel costs ca. 1.20 US-$/meter. Sure a company like Sony can do it themselves or get better deals. This might be the cheapest thing (I guess Sony would pay much less than 20k US-$). Then starts digital restoration, cutting and editing, audio etc. etc.
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They can hire company that does that. They can digitalise everything and after that the editing will be easy. Yes it is a lot of work but it can be done and it will be worth it. Some movies are still filmed with film cameras so its not impossible. It would be a crime to not to do anything with the film reels if they have them. Estate if you read this thread please make this release happen! :)

Didn't Estate say not long time ago that they are digitalising everything?
 
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Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

it isnt greed to want just one perfectly pieced together Blu-Ray, Go Flying stated that last year they have catalogued and identified every film from the bad tour as directed by patrick kelley and they were in the process of digitising everything. they wouldnt digitise everything without the plan of releasing them in the future.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Zakk said:
it isnt greed to want just one perfectly pieced together Blu-Ray, Go Flying stated that last year they have catalogued and identified every film from the bad tour as directed by patrick kelley and they were in the process of digitising everything. they wouldnt digitise everything without the plan of releasing them in the future.
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Possibly but most of everything they want to stop the deterioration of analog sources and ensure it is preserved for the future. They will not release everything. Just trying to keep our expectations realistic even though I would love to see better quality footage from the Bad Tour.
 
Zakk said:
it isnt greed to want just one perfectly pieced together Blu-Ray, Go Flying stated that last year they have catalogued and identified every film from the bad tour as directed by patrick kelley and they were in the process of digitising everything. they wouldnt digitise everything without the plan of releasing them in the future.
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When did he say it?
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

IMWhizzle said:
Thanks Zakk!

What the hell is the estate doing. Damn.
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i think theyre saving things for future release but the fact they have them, fans will demand it even more. my choice if i were working there, #DreamingMoment ;) i would create a fan collectors label and start a poll on the official website listing everything they have in their archive with a short clip of everything and fans voting for what they'd like to be released! :imbad AOWWWWWW

 
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Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Go Flying said:
yes Aintree was apparently shot in full but read carefully again what was said...

for what it's worth, I believe that it would not be a disservice to treat a filmed concert (where MJ rejected the audio) in exactly the same way that MJ required existing concert footage from a variety of different concerts for the Around The World and MTV special to be sync'd to Wembley audio.

whether that will ever happen is doubtful - it's an expensive project by any standards but if it were to be done, it should be done with great care and respect - not just slammed together for the fastest buck for the bang.

re USA footage, I have no info - sorry
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So if they filmed the Liverpool concert it means that it was planned to be released at the time. Maybe they decided not to release it because of Moonwalker and they didn't want to make that many releases. So if they have the film reels is it possible to release it today. If they have them Estate should release it.
 
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Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Galactus123 said:
So if they filmed the Liverpool concert it means that it was planned to be released at the time. Maybe they decided not to release it because of Moonwalker and they didn't want to make that many releases. So if they have the film reels is it possible to release it today. If they have them Estate should release it.
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they filmed more than just liverpool dude, variation of songs from different wembley shows, msg etc. im guessing their's around 10 shows that are on film :)
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Zakk said:
they filmed more than just liverpool dude, variation of songs from different wembley shows, msg etc. im guessing their's around 10 shows that are on film :)
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Yes I know. :) My dream release would be package that has Liverpool and Minneapolis concerts.

Minneapolis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEAIr0awegM
lom kit said:
I compared MITM from MTV's APOM and Bad around the world specials and come to conclusion (as I always suspected) that the footage used in Moonwalker is from the same night, just different angles.


the hair is the same, just due the low quality and slightly different angle, not everything can be seen

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Or any filmed concerts they have. I hope they have some of them.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Galactus123 said:
Yes I know. :) My dream release would be package that has Liverpool and Minneapolis concerts.

Minneapolis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEAIr0awegM


Or any filmed concerts they have. I hope they have some of them.
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Mine would be Pensecola U.S.A February 18th 1988 Full Dress Rehearsal Concert, Paramatta Australia November 20th 1987' MSG New York U.S.A March 3rd or 4th 1988 (I've read The Way You Make Me Feel was performed on March 4th too.), Minneapolis U.S.A May 4th/5th or 6th, Liverpool England September 11th & Los Angeles U.S.A January 27th, 1989 :D + Behind the scenes and Rehearsals from Tokyo Japan 87' Rome Italy 88' Barcelona Spain 88' and more. Wishful thinking I know but the footage is available somewhere and the tour's anniversary is in 2017 which will be the last year of the current contract. This, Ghosts Blu-Ray & a New Album to cap it all off, I wouldn't say no ;)
 
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Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

wow..i didnt know one would get reactions to a comment where two things are mixed up. but it's oke, it's ok :lmao:
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

how would you guys feel if the estate released the full dress rehearsal concert from february 18th 1988 on Blu-Ray & in cinemas? im sure they can find it...
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Zakk said:
how would you guys feel if the estate released the full dress rehearsal concert from february 18th 1988 on Blu-Ray & in cinemas? im sure they can find it...
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That's even more unlikely than a concert :S
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Zakk said:
how would you guys feel if the estate released the full dress rehearsal concert from february 18th 1988 on Blu-Ray & in cinemas? im sure they can find it...
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How do you assume that they have rehearsals on film? That sounds very unlikely. I hope we get any filmed Bad Tour concert on blu-ray and cinema.
 
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Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Galactus123 said:
How do you assume that they have rehearsals on film? That sounds very unlikely. I hope we get any filmed Bad Tour concert on blu-ray and cinema.
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i'm speaking of IF they have the full concert rehearsal from pensecola florida, as it would make a great extra on a Bad Tour package as michael sang every song 100% live, just like the rehearsal show from the Victory Tour (July 1st 1984 in Birmingham, USA) and the Munich Warm up full rehearsal show (June 25th 1992) and Tokyo Rehearsal concert (September 11th 1987)


if they have these full rehearsal shows, they should use them as special features on any future tour release! it would be a crime not to release them. of course i want the live shows more than anything. but these full concerts with just live vocals? it would be a dream to see them.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

Special features on a Michael Jackson DVD? Don't be silly! lol
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

IMWhizzle said:
Expect only a trailer in VHS quality.
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they should hire a fan to be the marketing manager. an experienced fan who's experienced in everything that michael has ever done. Go Flying would be a fantastic choice :') who agrees? :D
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

ChrisC said:
Special features on a Michael Jackson DVD? Don't be silly! lol
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Well, that's not true (if getting a crappy VHS video quality can be counted as a special feature :D ;) )
 
Neverland_Valley said:
Well, that's not true (if getting a crappy VHS video quality can be counted as a special feature :D ;) )
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Honestly, I don't care about future releases anymore. Slowly I lose interest in new releases. They are not worthy of wearing the MJ brand.

Michael stood for quality and control. He is gone and I'm afraid that we won't see exciting things anymore.

I may sound like a pessimist, but for years and years in a row we were let down.
 
Re: Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?

IMWhizzle said:
Honestly, I don't care about future releases anymore. Slowly I lose interest in new releases. They are not worthy of wearing the MJ brand.

Michael stood for quality and control. He is gone and I'm afraid that we won't see exciting things anymore.

I may sound like a pessimist, but for years and years in a row we were let down.
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I don't think you're a pessimist. I don't care myself for future releases anymore. I had great expectations prior to the "Michael" release and never imagined things would get that bad as they are now. Michael's legacy is being destroyed slowly and effectively. If things go on this way, in 10 years no one will care about a MJ release... maybe even sooner.
 
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