LMP on Oprah 21/10/10 All Discussion Here - UPDATE Video's Start On Page 63

Have you gained respect for Lisa after watching this interview? Do you forgive/understand her now?


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It's obvious that some just don't know how to, or refuse to read what we have asked for in this thread. So I will take care of this now. I don't care if you are quoting from the autoppsy or not. I asked repeatedly for this to stop. There is an autopsy thread if you want to discuss that there. Lisa's interview has nothing to do with MJ at the time of his death. Why is that so hard for you all to understand. Why can't people follow what we ask for. By all means if you want to discuss the autopsy report, take it to that thread.

ginvid, i understand what you said, and I read your earlier post about this....However, as a member of this forum, I believe I needed to say something from the autopsy in defense of some of our opinions...Sometimes, you need to use outside resources/references to defend what you are trying to say...the report plays a huge role in this thread, if we want to defend ourselves...

by all means, close the thread if you feel fit, but I think it was necessary to say, in the context of those being attacked ....
 
I am not going to close this thread. It is not at all like it was yesterday. There is also nothing to defend. Don't let people rope you into talking about something in the wrong place so that you are the one that ends up in trouble. Report the post. Whether they pro or con, recent drug use talk is not permitted. We asked in this thread that especially what happened at the time of MJ's death not be discussed. It is irrelevant to this interview of Lisa's. We do have threads that talk about that where people can discuss this to exhaution if they want. We are trying to keep the board in order. Where people don't follow what is asked we cannot have order.

Also, if a person wants they can create a new thread to discuss what they feel is necessary. But we asked that threads not be derailed.
 
I am not going to close this thread. It is not at all like it was yesterday. There is also nothing to defend. Don't let people rope you into talking about something in the wrong place so that you are the one that ends up in trouble. Report the post. Whether they pro or con, recent drug use talk is not permitted. We asked in this thread that especially what happened at the time of MJ's death not be discussed. It is irrelevant to this interview of Lisa's. We do have threads that talk about that where people can discuss this to exhaution if they want. We are trying to keep the board in order. Where people don't follow what is asked we cannot have order.

Also, if a person wants they can create a new thread to discuss what they feel is necessary. But we asked that threads not be derailed.

fair enough.....the only thing I don't agree about is that there is nothing to defend....of course there is...when you're being attacked, that's what you do...i'm gonna defend myself and others if need be.....i'm not gonna start a new thread to do that...

but i understand the point of what you're trying to do....
 
EDIT: at the request of ginvid I think this post was rather unnecessary. Please delete mods.
 
What I mean by that is, if you have an opinion and are being attacked unnecessarily for it, do you think something you will say will change a person's mind who is hell bent on causing havoc? They are saying things just to get a rise out of others. There is no need to try to defend yourself against nonsense. Report the post, and let it be taken care of. Then continue discussing things with those who are actually willing to discuss.
 
It's obvious that some just don't know how to, or refuse to read what we have asked for in this thread. So I will take care of this now. I don't care if you are quoting from the autoppsy or not. I asked repeatedly for this to stop. There is an autopsy thread if you want to discuss that there. Lisa's interview has nothing to do with MJ at the time of his death. Why is that so hard for you all to understand. Why can't people follow what we ask for. By all means if you want to discuss the autopsy report, take it to that thread.

GINVID, Thank god for YOU. I knew you would pop up soon, because I was seeing a bunch of inaccuracies (to use a nice word) again!!!

JMAI, I see what you are trying to do and I applaud you for it, but it is falling of deaf ears!! Some people through no fault of theirs do not understand, mix up information, connect one piece of information with another mismatched piece of information; do not fully understand the material they present to prove their points, etc.

CHERUBIM, Your comment about the murder weapon was on the mark!! For a moment I had forgotten that.
 
I think Lisa assumed he was on drugs and so do some of his fans.
Lisa´s father took drugs and I think drugs was the first thing she thought of when Michael wasn´t himself.But if Elvis had huge problems to sleep I think she would see it from another side.
I believe he could behave strange sometimes because he had problems to sleep.Anyone can behave strange when you don´t get enough sleep.
There are other people too in the society who have big problems to sleep and even if they get strong drugs to be able to sleep it just doesn´t help.
If you don´t get enough sleep year after year and you tried everything but it doesn´t help then I think some are desperate and would do almost anything to be able to sleep.But they don´t have enough money.
 
MIST;3029113 said:
I think Lisa assumed he was on drugs and so do some of his fans.
Lisa´s father took drugs and I think drugs was the first thing she thought of when Michael wasn´t himself.But if Elvis had huge problems to sleep I think she would see it from another side.
I believe he could behave strange sometimes because he had problems to sleep.Anyone can behave strange when you don´t get enough sleep.
There are other people too in the society who have big problems to sleep and even if they get strong drugs to be able to sleep it just doesn´t help.
If you don´t get enough sleep year after year and you tried everything but it doesn´t help then I think some are desperate and would do almost anything to be able to sleep.But they don´t have enough money.

MIST, I like your piece about people using something to sleep and it does not help. For instance, I suffer from severe headaches. I have tried many different medications. After I use one type for about a year, it does not bring me relief and the doctor has to change the medication. I DO NOT SEE MYSELF AS HAVING A D---- PROBLEM. I saw this kind of strange reasoning used earlier by a poster not you. I will stop now so I do not derail the thread.
 
JMie I completely understand what you're saying....but i don't believe the comments in question have anything to do with giving him the benefit of the doubt or not...it's reality...and in reality...we don't know ANYTHING....


that's the only truth in this thread. this is the age of the court of public opinion. the court system be damned. medical evidence be damned. walking in someone's moccasins be damned. scientific proof, dna evidence, hardcore non circumstantial unshakeable evidence be damned. in an age where people think having faith is pie in the sky, they are coming to conclusions about Michael, based on their own self manufactured, non proveable 'faith', slandering MJ in the process, and denying it. i hear so many 'i think' 'i guess' like from Oprah and Lisa Marie, and they're getting REWARDED for it! then nobody wants anybody to go 'i think' or 'i guess', regarding Oprah or Lisa Marie. reap what you sow.
 
Her repetitive use of the word "manipulative" didn't really sit well with me. Could she not have chosen another word? Michael was a illusionist, a perfectionist and all but I mean, it makes Michael sound like he was the leader of some mafia. I dunno...I s'pose Lisa Marie doesn't really know how to express herself sometimes.

(Sorry if this has already been said- I haven't been able to go through the whole thread).
she was referring to the fact that Michael would have to do things to deal with the press!!!!, a the i mean Michael has been in show busines since he was 8 or 9 years old, and he was MICHAEL JACKSON he had certain power, he was manipulative in the way that he felt would help things, not a manipulative person like a bad person would do... i mean Michael if you dont remember was GENIUS and his way of thinking was genius too, he was like a master at everythng and some would call that manipulation, but not in a bad way, only that it all went bad when he started with the bad companion like all those doctors who would fake friendship and caring and just wanted to control him...and HIS MONEY, like LMP said clearly ,the VAMPIRES arround Michael.
 
You guys, I have to clean the thread. I am sorry, and I don't like doing it, but I have to.

I wanted to reply to something Jabz said
My point is not to have no believe in MJ. Its the fact that no one seems as if this could have been an issue. While in my opinion, he clearly had a issues with prescription medication (really I see it as a fact) But I'm not saying hes some super drug addict. My point is, we don't know what went on, we are going by what other people have said, so you can't just pick and choose what you think is a lie and what you think is the truth and what you think is the better choice because you think it makes Michael look better. Just because some people have said they haven't seen him take drugs it doesn't mean he wasn't on them.

Even put it this way, if you were Michaels friend(s) and or family and you knew he had problems and someone asked you that question, what would you say? You could say no comment and leave room for only more questions, you could say no and maintain that he had no issues what so ever, or you could admit that there was something wrong. Now are you gonna say what Michael would have wanted you to say, are you gonna say what makes the fans happy or are you gonna say how you really feel about it?

While obviously there are vultures and liars, the truth is hard to come by, but when everyone starts jumping on anyone that says anything because they dont agree with it, it gets silly. If Katherine turns around and says "Michael had a problem" are you gonna start calling her an idiot and wishing she would die?
 
what some fans and people still fail to know is that injections and prescriptions stuff are drus too, LEGAL drugs but they are as bad as the illegal ones, Michael would trust doctors who would tell him that the things he was using would not affect him, i mean thats the MAIN reason of him surrounded by doctors

he thought he was in good care, but he wasnt, and the doctors completely took advantage of him, and not only doctors, many people arround him as well, Michael was confused and all those shady characters would just confuse him more ON PURPOSE and he was lost, may be he didnt knew whom to trust (sadly), he trusted the WRONG people and they all should be INVESTIGATED right NOW. we would found out where lots of his fortune end up in.... if you know what i mean....

Lisa said the perfect word VAMPIRES
 
Jabz is bringing up a hypothetical situation that doesn't exist, trying to guilt trip people who are protecting MJ, and set them up to look like they want to destroy his mother, too, all with nothing but hypothesis. why didn't he say, 'make Lisa Marie look good' or 'make Oprah look good'? why is it always, people are trying to pick and choose truths to only make MJ look good? aside from the fact that it's our inaliable right to say nothing but positives about MJ on an MJ site, what's really happening it, we're asking people not to judge MJ. plain and simple. nothing more. as far as the hypothetical situation, designed to do nothing but place unwarranted guilt for saying positives about MJ...his mother said she never saw him with a problem. so, there you go. why even write that scenario? i'm guessing his mother spent more time knowing about him, inside and out than any human being can do, as far as another person can do. even then, she can't, either. only Michael knew himself. but that doesn't stop people from passing judgement on him, in such subtle ways, that, like Jabz, here, they don't even notice it.
 
Jabz is bringing up a hypothetical situation that doesn't exist, trying to guilt trip people who are protecting MJ, and set them up to look like they want to destroy his mother, too, all with nothing but hypothesis. why didn't he say, 'make Lisa Marie look good' or 'make Oprah look good'? why is it always, people are trying to pick and choose truths to only make MJ look good? aside from the fact that it's our inaliable right to say nothing but positives about MJ on an MJ site, what's really happening it, we're asking people not to judge MJ. plain and simple. nothing more. as far as the hypothetical situation, designed to do nothing but place unwarranted guilt for saying positives about MJ...his mother said she never saw him with a problem. so, there you go. why even write that scenario? i'm guessing his mother spent more time knowing about him, inside and out than any human being can do, as far as another person can do. even then, she can't, either. only Michael knew himself. but that doesn't stop people from passing judgement on him, in such subtle ways, that, like Jabz, here, they don't even notice it.

I completely disagree.....but unfortunately, I can't elaborate on why I do....
 
why MJ family and friends love to forget that what happened to MJ is due to a conspircy...if some accountens took a million or two is not a problem, it was not going to shake MJ's empire but MJ's real problem is not " my way or the high way" it was the sharks in the industry...they wanted to hurt him and make him live without his pride.
2 molestations cases were not because his drugs and managers, it was a conspiracy! he said this himself!

Britney is completely out of it but because the industry want her there she is everywhere!
look at Mel Gibson , it was not drug and vampires, when the people of the industry gave him their back,whether he desrve this or not, he is now completely destroyed....

while Polansky is a hero and no one can say anything against him.Justin Temberlake talks so proudly about his addiction ! LMP herself falling of the bar stairs a week before the interview..i wish Oprah asked her about her drinking problems !

MJ was preparing for one of the most antcipated tours in the world , the first 3D world tour in the history of the human kind.... ...why Amy winehouse is alive and MJ is dead? because he was killed !
 
The Lisa Marie/Oprah Interview
from Reflections On The Dance, An Honest Look at Michael Joseph Jackson
http://www.facebook.com/MJBodyguard...hts-on-the-lmpoprah-interview/164734936879313
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Refle...at-Michael-Joseph-Jackson/162382483725?v=wall

This topic and the recent interview are very heated with heightened emotions from Michael’s fans ranging from staunch defense of Lisa Marie to slanderous hate of both her and Oprah.

My goal here is to bring some balance to this and to what I saw when I watched this interview yesterday on YouTube. This is my opinion and includes how I felt and what I noticed while watching this interview. This is quite lengthy, but I go into different aspects of the interview and then use quotes and other sources to give a more well-rounded perspective.

I’ll admit that my first reaction was anger, but this also could have been partly due to my mood at the time as I am also dealing with the hospitalization of someone I love. Sometimes it’s hard to separate and compartmentalize our emotions.

I had very mixed feelings while watching the interview, though my overall impression was disappointment.

My first emotion that surfaced was anger and a feeling of “here we go again.” I have to be honest. I wasn’t happy with the way that the interview started out. For instance, Lisa Marie’s comments about why she was defensive in the past about being asked if theirs was a real marriage “I didn’t understand my relationship with him” which may have been a reflection on where she was emotionally at the time rather than a dig at him, I just wish she would have explained that better....and then Oprah didn't miss a beat... stating that some felt it was a “staged publicity something”, when in fact, Oprah herself has perpetrated this very notion in past interviews with Lisa.

Also, Lisa Marie mentioned her reason for doing this interview was to get the subject out there and talked about before her next album came out so that it would be behind her. In some ways, that felt like self-promotion to me, but I may have taken that wrong. I do understand in a way, her wanting to get her feelings worked through. I think we all understood what she felt when she said that after Michael passed, a flood of emotions came and we suddenly felt we could understand him better.

I know that some of you felt Lisa Marie was being very sincere. I felt that in certain parts of the interview she was being honest and sincere and in other parts, I did not get that same feeling and began to feel that this was really more about her, what she’s had to go through and about comparing Michael with her father, Elvis (who, she is looking more and more like every day….their resemblance is so striking). I think in many ways, judging by her body language and the things she said in this interview, that she is transferring the feelings she had as a little girl for her father, and all that she dealt with in regards to that….the fame, the drug problems, the loneliness and the sense of being in competition against fame, for her father’s attention, (she seems to be transferring all of that struggle and those feelings) on to Michael. She was asking what all of this was supposed to teach her and in my opinion, it’s right there in front of her.

Michael and Elvis in many ways were very different, and their deaths, though similar that they both died in their home and drugs were involved, were very, very different. Elvis died of a prescription drug overdose. Michael died after being injected with a lethal dose of propofol after already being given high doses of benzodiazapenes, which are known respiratory and cardiac inhibitors, especially when paired with propofol. This happened with a doctor present and never should have happened. It was gross negligence if not murder. Elvis’ death was something altogether different. The autopsy proved that the only drugs in Michael’s system were those he was given by Dr. Murray and the drugs used to try to resuscitate him. His body also showed no damage that would be seen by long-term drug use.

Though similar in some respects…the collapse, the ambulance… the deaths themselves were VERY different and have very different reasons for their cause. So her stating that these were exactly the same is mistaken. Labeling them both as deaths due to drug addiction is wrong and inaccurate. The autopsy proves that.

There is also talk during the interview in regards to Michael’s collapse and hospitalization in 1995 and Lisa insinuates that it was due to drug use. The story I shared on here just yesterday about Dr. Alleyne, who treated Michael in the ER and during that hospital stay, states:

“Alleyne was blunt with the world, saying Jackson did not have any immune system problems because rumors about AIDS were swirling. He was blunt that Jackson had no drugs in his system.”

Source: http://www.michaeljackson.com/uk/node/820899

In this interview, Lisa Marie states that she “thought” it might be drugs because of the differing diagnoses. Well, with having dealt with family members hospitalized for lengthy periods of time, I can tell you firsthand that each day you go in, the doctors think it’s something different. This is NOT at all unusual. This doctor specifically stated in a press conference that Michael had no drugs in his system and that he was severely dehydrated, which Michael himself stated would happen to him whenever he was preparing for performance.

I think that my first turn-off was Oprah mentioning how she and Lisa Marie went hiking together this past summer. This is a tough one for me because in all honesty, if you truly love someone, you don’t become bedfellows with the very people who have hurt that person that you love, the most.

Oprah has made no excuses for saying some very, very derogatory and nasty ,mean, cruel things about Michael for many years, including just recently making snide remarks about him and how she doesn’t want to be Michael Jackson in reference to what she felt he was always trying to do….continuing to try to surpass himself in the success of Thriller.

Though I can certainly understand after a breakup of a relationship, that bitterness may ensue, which may have been Lisa Marie’s excuse for what she said in previous interviews, including the interview she did in the past with Oprah, and the interview with Larry King and others, we learn and grow and learn from our mistakes. Even if the intentions were completely honest in wanting to do this interview, why you would chose to interview with someone who has been so hurtful to Michael in the past and also in the present, and would go hiking with this same person, baffles me.

As human beings, we all have failures and weaknesses and make mistakes. This goes for all of us here, myself included, as well as Oprah, Lisa Marie and others. Michael, also being human, had shortcomings as well.

My problem with this interview in regards to that is the highlighting of potential shortcomings that end up feeling like he is being blamed for all that happened (the break up of their marriage for example…Lisa Marie stating why she left the marriage “I had to make a decision to walk because I saw that the drugs and the doctors were coming in and they scared me and put me back to what I went through with my father and that ended it.”

Again, this is where I see transference. She is again comparing Michael’s life to her father’s. I don’t disagree that they both reached the pinnacles of success and had to deal with some of the same problems that came with fame, but I think they lived very, very different lives and to compare them too closely does Michael a disservice.

I think some things that were said came across derogatory and still with some anger behind them. For instance, Lisa Marie stated “to some degree, he was a master with manipulating, a little bit, with the media. Nobody knew who I was (odd statement to make as everybody knew who she was. She was Elvis’ daughter!) and just assumed I was going along with something he would be doing.” Lisa Marie also said “He became very good at puppeteering and manipulating to some degree,” to which Oprah readily agrees.

These quotes bothered me because it insinuates that Michael plotted and planned devious things with the media and manipulated. This is a big misconception out there among fans and the public. I’ve had people in the past come to me and say that he was a huge manipulator and that he manipulated and stepped all over people and trampled them to get to the top. What? Mind you, these people did not know him. That is exactly opposite his character if you talk to most of the people who knew Michael. I’ve spoken with people who knew Michael anywhere from 10-20 years or more and those who have worked with him as well and they have all stated that he was the least manipulative, least controlling and kindest, most considerate person they knew. This is very much in opposition with the way he is being portrayed by that comment.

I know some believe that he himself started some of the tabloid rumors, but from Michael’s own mouth (and as you will see in the upcoming David Nordahl interview), Michael did NOT do that. There was a reason and explanation behind every one of those rumors and it was NOT Michael who started them.

Lisa Marie stated that Michael’s life was completely different from anyone else’s and I agree with that. I think she makes a good point there. He was on stage since the age of 5. He knew nothing different from that. His life was shaped in a way that almost no one else’s had been.

She also stated that she felt the manipulation was a survival tactic for him and she confused that and thought that he didn’t love her. I cannot speak for that of course as none of us were inside their marriage. I think here she is being honest in that she felt confused and thought at the time that he didn’t love her. I also see this as her being Elvis’ daughter, competing against fame for her father’s affections and her still seeing herself in that way.

I think for me, the word manipulation has an ugly connotation and that’s where it bothers me. It makes me think of someone with devil horns waiting to pounce on and take advantage for their own benefit, to lead things in the direction they want to go (think Martin Bashir). But every person who has worked with Michael or has known him for many years, states that he was NOT like that and that he was always very considerate.

Take for instance this quote from Cory Rooney, who worked with Michael at Sony/Epic. This was pulled from the Reflections website under “The Truth” tab:

That Michael was a very humble, respectful person who, according to Cory Rooney, who worked with Michael at Sony/Epic, was not demanding as many artists are. Cory shared a story in a recent interview about Michael....

"...There’s other times where I sit there in the studio and say I cannot believe that I’m working with this person and this is what it is. And they all have the nerve to have attitudes.

Then you work with a guy like Michael Jackson who when he was late, he was supposed to be in the studio at twelve and he showed up about quarter to one. He felt so terrible for being late he apologized the whole session. The next day he sent a big giant basket because we’re talking about movies and how much I love movies. So he sent me this giant basket....Oh my goodness, it probably had 100 DVDs. It had popcorn, candy, all kinds of books and movie trivia, all kinds of stuff. Again the card said, ‘I’m very sorry for not respecting your time."....I would say Mike, what time do you want to start tomorrow? He said, ‘Cory, you’re the boss. You tell me what time. If you want me here seven in the morning, I will be here at seven in the morning.’ He said, ‘You are the boss. Whatever you tell me.’

Chris Yandek (Interviewer): What I find interesting about those comments is the way the mainstream media projects it is that he wanted to always do things his way.

Cory: “Not at all, not at all. That’s what I said. It’s like if the world would just stop and just really pay attention.”

Does this sound like someone who is manipulative and whose main goal is always to steer things in his direction and to get his own way? To scale the heights of fame, whatever the cost?

Some of the highlights were Lisa Marie stating that theirs was a normal marriage and that his being up at night piddling around was a bit endearing to her and that she didn’t mind it. She also stated that she loved taking care of him and that that was one of the highest points of her life for her. I found this a nice addition to the interview as it shows that she did love him at some point.

But this is where the interview again began to take an ugly turn. Lisa Marie stated “I had to make a decision. Was it the drugs and vampires around him or me? And he pushed me away.”

Again, Lisa Marie was in the marriage and none of us were, and Michael had previous to meeting her, after the Pepsi commercial scalp burn accident, admitted to becoming addicted to prescription pain killers and he got treatment for that with the help of his friend Elizabeth Taylor. Whether or not the events of 1993 catapulted him back into some trouble I do not know for certain, but the stories of drug use seem to go against what so many others have said. This is a sticking point of which none of us can answer for certain. His family at times has stated that they tried to help him. This is where it all gets very fuzzy. We have to remember that sometimes a lot of what we hear is just not truth and sometimes certain stories come out for the benefit of someone or something else, and they twist the truth.

Oprah then says to Lisa Marie that she had heard that he was drawn to people who take advantage of him and what was that?

While Michael was always open to helping others, I don’t think that he was drawn to people who took advantage of him in the way it’s being insinuated. He was drawn to people who needed help and unfortunately, sometimes when you give, you will be betrayed. I’ve had it happen to me and I’m sure all of you have experienced it as well. Michael felt he was put here to help others and in doing so, as his main mission, and being at the top heights of celebrity and fame in addition, he was bound to attract people who would see his desire to help and would use that for their own selfish reasons. The way that Oprah stated this insinuated that Michael was to blame for his own troubles. That’s like saying that Mother Theresa is to blame for helping the poor.

This whole line of questioning and conversation continued to take a downward spiral.

Lisa Marie: “He would dispose of people who wouldn’t go along with the program”

Oprah: “The reality of being a God in your own world. My way or the highway” (Funny that Oprah has the audacity to say this when she could very well be seen in that very same position but instead of helping others and doing humanitarian works, she instead uses her power to take other people down for her own ratings).

Lisa Marie: “Michael wasn’t a bad person because that’s how he functioned. He didn’t know any better.”

The reason I didn’t like this whole back and forth was that it made Michael look as if he was selfish, demanding and, naïve, and he was none of those things. Was Michael different with his friends and those he worked with than how he was in a marriage? I don’t know. I can’t speak on that. But, everyone who knew him for long periods of time and those who worked with him always stated that he was very humble and not demanding at all. In fact, most felt he was the least-demanding of anyone they had worked with. The only difference would be if he was in the studio and he wanted perfection and did many takes, which at times made the other musicians angry at the time, but they always thanked him afterwards for bringing out the best in them. Think of TII. You see Michael reacting to everyone with complete respect and kindness, but when he wants the performance a certain way and a certain feel to the music, he will accept no less. That’s perfection in your art, that’s not a demanding personality.

After the above conversation, Lisa Marie stated “I felt I was disposable, just like with my father.” Again, more transference of feelings and emotions that she struggled with in regards to her father, being transferred over to Michael and their marriage. Lisa Marie also stated here that it’s when you have a “god-like life mixed with an adulation, that’s when you get into trouble. A lot of trouble.”

Many adored Michael and still do and some do take it too far. There is no doubt and no question. There are some who blatantly worship him or other celebrities and man was never intended to be worshipped. It’s a dangerous place to be when we worship someone else and we also put them in a precarious position. However, we can clearly see from Michael’s character and his humble, gentle nature, that he was not into the whole worship thing. He treated his fans like people, not subjects looking up to their king. He was down-to-earth, funny, and extremely caring and giving. He never took advantage of his fans. Quite the opposite.

The quotes above almost give a feel that Michael really took in being treated like a god. I think that maybe it affected him to some point, as it would any of us, but I think he kept tight reigns on it and one of the ways he did that was, I believe, through his faith and looking to God for direction. Someone who is willing to humble themselves to look to God for direction is not someone who believes they are truly above anyone else.

While it’s true that we all deal with things from our childhood even as adults and many times our marriages bring that out and force us to deal with those weaknesses and that pain, we cannot transfer or blame our spouse for what we felt or dealt with as a child, yet, many times we will try to because subconsciously, we choose partners that bring that out in us. Many times our partners are not like our opposite sex parent at all, yet, there are certain things that will push our buttons and will force us to deal with those emotions and hurt from our past. I think this is what happened to Lisa Marie also.

Lisa Marie goes on to say that she doesn’t understand going through it twice, so much of the focus is on herself and what she felt she had to go through.

One of the things that I found really striking about the entire hour-long interview was that there was not once a mention of Michael’s generosity, his humanitarianism. Lisa Marie traveled with him and went to some of those children’s hospitals and orphanages and that was a part of their married life and a big part of who Michael was, yet, that was left out. Why?

That alone left out a HUGE piece of the puzzle as to who Michael was. She definitely dropped the ball there. This was too important a platform to do that, unfortunately.

The interview centered way too much around drug use and comparing Michael to Elvis and when it was brought up that Elvis’ CA residence was right across the street from Michael’s home, Oprah said with an evil gleam in her eye and a smile on her face “What about the irony of that?” She actually sat forward in her chair almost leaping at Lisa Marie like an animal about to attack it’s prey with the sheer anticipation of the victory.

Oprah: “Do you think there was a part of you that wanted to see the truth? The truth about the drugs?

Lisa Marie: “I was so naïve then”. To me, this was a cop out on Lisa’s part

Oprah: “We can understand the state of mind you were in.”

Again, this aggravates me because it makes Lisa the victim of a drug-abusing husband and she cops out by saying that she was too naïve to know any better and it also puts the blame on Michael. Oprah sympathizing with her on this was a deliberate intention to bring out more about Michael being addicted to drugs.

Another portion of the interview got into Lisa Marie and Oprah describing Michael’s “light” and his magnetism and how Lisa Marie fell in love with him.

Oprah: “It’s like he shines his light upon you…you want to be in that, you want to be around that” (and yet, Oprah, despite her stating this, has made every attempt to snuff out that light and to berate him at every chance, which is very hypocritical). She also mentions being at Neverland and all of the candy and fun and thinking “Gosh, I wish I could be his friend” and I couldn’t help but think…but Oprah, is that how you treat a friend? And, isn’t it a bit shallow to want to be someone’s friend because of what they can give you? I think that is very telling, to be honest. Because, if she truly felt this way, she would never in a million years, have treated Michael the way she did.

Lisa Marie: “He was like a drug for me. I always wanted to be around him” Again, the mention of drugs and the transference of her childhood and Elvis and drugs affecting how she saw Michael.

Lisa Marie: “He fell in love with me and I fell in love with him and it was very real.”

I do commend her for saying that because so many have and continue to think that their marriage wasn’t real or did not involve “real people” or real feelings towards one another.

Oprah then mentions how when the two of them traveled anywhere, it was like a circus and Lisa agreed, but stated that it was just while he was on tour that this happened and that other times they spent time alone with no cameras. Again, I am grateful that she made this point.

The interview then got into some of the nitty gritty…what she felt she was expected to do as a wife….”As his wife I needed to do some things like that (MTV)” and her giving deep thought to whether she wanted to have a baby with him, “I didn’t want a custody battle with him. There was lots of pressure to have a baby and I wanted to make sure we were really, really united because we were going to be against so much.”

I agree that this was true. The two of them were going to be up against a LOT of stuff….just by simply being who they were and being a couple. To be honest, I was surprised to find out that Lisa Marie had left her husband for Michael. That was something I was not aware of. Lisa Marie also felt that Debbie Rowe agreeing to carry Michael’s baby at the time was a bit of a retaliatory act on Michael’s part against her because she didn’t have a baby.

There was talk about Michael saying to Lisa Marie “if you’re not going to (have a baby), Debbie will.”

I cannot speak on this either. I had read this in the past as well. I’d also read Michael speaking about this and stating that Lisa Marie had agreed to have children with him before they got married and then backed out. So on his part, this could have been his way of saying that she was not holding her part of the bargain and someone else would willingly give him a baby as a surrogate if she did not want to become pregnant. Again, I can’t really speak on that as I was not there, but, in my opinion, this is something that should have remained between husband and wife and not be out there for the public to decipher. This subject should have remained off the record.

During the next part of the interview was when I felt that Lisa Marie was being her most sincere. She talked about how that hurt her (and that would hurt any woman) and how she now understands him so much better than she did at the time and that they both did things that hurt one another. That happens in every relationship and friendship and marriage. I fully understand her points on all of that. She also mentioned that Danny Keough, her former husband whom she left for Michael, was still very much a part of her life during her marriage to Michael and that “Michael didn’t know what to do with that” and that it made him uncomfortable (as it would any man). She stated that she’d take vacations and that Danny would go with her.

Again, on both of their parts, if what was shared here was true, they both made mistakes as every person does in a relationship. We all have the capacity to hurt one another and to be hurtful and to retaliate. I think it’s clear from the stories shared about that they would both feel hurt by one another’s actions, even if not done to purposely hurt one another.

Lisa Marie mentions how he would “ice you out” if he felt vulnerable. I think for many of us, that’s natural. We feel vulnerable and we shut down and put up walls because we don’t want to continue to get hurt. We try to protect ourselves. Maybe both Lisa Marie and Michael tried to protect themselves from their prior hurts. They had both come from backgrounds where they had endured a lot, though different, trials.

I think it’s important that she stated that Michael honestly tried very hard and worked hard at their marriage and that he gave it a good shot. “I didn’t appreciate it then and I wish I did,” Lisa Marie.

Lisa Marie states that they had broken up and tried getting back together many times over the 4 years after their marriage ended and that at some point she had to push it away. I’ve heard many versions of this and some say it was Lisa Marie who pursued Michael for so long. But, whichever way it was, I think that they did both truly care about one another at one point.

One of the most heart-breaking for me was her mentioning of their long phone conversation in 2005. She stated that she was very removed and he could sense it and that he admitted to her that she had been right about some of the people who surrounded him at the time and had talked about years prior. I felt so bad when I read that he had asked her if she still loved him and she told him she was indifferent and that he didn’t like that and he cried and tried to find out how she had become so detached. That made me feel very sad because he must have been in such pain then, especially with the trial and he needed that love and support and from her at the time, it was not available or possible L

It was also painful to listen to Lisa Marie mention that in that same conversation, that Michael mentioned to her that someone was going to try and kill him to get a hold of his catalogue and his estate and that he expressed his concern over his life and she didn’t know what to do with that. I wish somehow she could have reached out to him at that point.

Then, came the end portion of the interview and Oprah of course had to bring up the molestation charges, which was completely inappropriate for her to do.

Lisa Marie stated that she never saw any inappropriate behavior at all, but I feel that she really failed him on many accounts here in regards to this subject being brought up.

First, she mentions that during his 2005 trial that during a phone call she told him to please keep his head together and he asked her, “you mean drugs?” and she said yes. She then went into a whole thing about drugs again…which I felt was mentioned way too many times during this interview.

Lisa Marie: “All I saw was a few year period there those interviews. I saw him intoxicated. I didn’t see the Michael that I knew.”

In regards to the Martin Bashir interview “He was high as a kite. He was either too speedy or he was sedated. It wasn’t the Michael that I knew.”

To be honest with you all, I did not see him like that in interviews. I think the only incident that I may have questioned was with Blanket and the balcony and Michael at that point to me at least, didn’t seem like his normal, reserved self. At that point in the documentary as well, I have a feeling that he knew that Bashir was steering this in a bad direction. I think he may have sensed that. The rest of it I did not see someone who seemed out of sorts. Lisa Marie was married to him of course and would be able to detect certain things like that much more readily than any of us, but still, I question how many times the issue of drugs was brought up.

I seriously feel that for Lisa Marie, this is a HUGE issue because of her father and the life she had and what she went through as a young girl. I think it has much more to do with Elvis than it does with Michael. I feel that she transferred all of that hurt and anger and pain about the drugs and fame, on to Michael, even though his life and his personality were much different from Elvis’.

The interview headed for the finish with Lisa Marie stating that she felt that Michael would say things, such as it was okay to sleep with young children (after Oprah asked her about the sleepovers, which, by the way, Oprah I believe, allowed a bunch of young girls to sleep over at her own house!) because he was being defiant due to his anger.

Lisa Marie “He was such a little stubborn rebel sometimes and he was like a child and he would just sit and say what he felt everyone didn’t want him to say. I don’t think he had a straight head going into those things and I think they were edited in a very manipulative, nasty way.”

I have to stop and comment here. First, for someone who says she loves him, she speaks of him here in sort of a derogatory way. Maybe he was rebellious when he felt hurt..many of us get that way and I fully understand that Michael had faults just as the rest of us, but to come on national television and state that your ex-husband was a “little stubborn rebel and was like a child” seems unnecessary and paints Michael in a very negative light. This seems especially disrespectful after he is gone.

Lisa Marie also uses the word manipulative here, in stating that the Bashir documentary was edited in a very manipulative, nasty way. This is very true of course, but what strikes me is the use of the word manipulative here in a very nasty reference and her use of it to describe Michael earlier in the interview L

Oprah then keeps going with this. “So to this day you believe none of those charges are true?”

Lisa Marie: “No. I cannot say. The only people who are ever going to be able to say are him (Michael) and whoever were in the room at the time of whatever allegedly took place. I was never in the room. I can tell you that I never saw anything like that.”

Here again is where I felt Lisa Marie could have come shining through and defended the person she claims to love and whom she knew well after being married for a year and a half. She knew what kind of person he was and she knew that he was not capable of doing that to children. She also has access to all of the facts of both cases, just like the rest of us, and yet, instead of stating those facts and setting the record straight, she left a gaping hole of suspicion open for the public. It was truly a disservice to Michael there. She dropped the ball. No question.

She also states that “If you were going to make him confront something he didn’t want you to confront, he would make you go away, including his own family.”

Again, she did him a major disservice here and opened up suspicions in the mind of the public, as well as painting a very negative picture of him which only builds on the media’s already twisted version of Michael, which has nothing to do with the truth.

The interview ended with Oprah asking her about being around Michael’s casket and how she felt… “I felt like I wanted to apologize for not being around….” She obviously regrets that she wasn’t around and didn’t help him.

Oprah: “Do you think you could have saved him?”

This insinuates that Michael caused his own death! So far from the truth. It also continues the notion of Michael being someone so high on drugs that he could not keep his own life straight and needed someone to save him. All I can say is, this is far from the truth.

After discussing these very heady subjects, the interview ends with Oprah thanking Lisa Marie and cuts out with them both smiling and laughing, which I do admit disturbed me after them talking about something so serious and somber.

This is very long and detailed, but I wanted to really give an account as to all that was going through my mind while watching it, and balancing it against my own research, against what has been shared with me and also just noting the obvious.

To sum it up, I think that Lisa Marie and Michael did love each other at one time. I don’t think that her actions though, in many cases, even in this interview and some of the things she said, were very loving or kind. Maybe that was not intentional, but I feel she still harbors some anger over the end of their relationship and she also feels guilt and regret, which she admits to, over not setting things right with one another. I think that her father being Elvis and all that she went through as a young girl has colored her perception of relationships, marriage, love, and even fame. I think that she transferred all of that hurt and anger of what she went through and of losing her father so early especially to prescription drug use, on to her marriage with Michael because, in many ways, Michael was similar in that he was famous and a musician, an icon, etc.

In the end, I think that Oprah’s motivation, clearly, was ratings and money. It always has been. I am not sure what Lisa Marie’s motivation was, but she had this wonderful platform where she could really have helped clear his name and put him in a good light, and she chose not to and so, that severely disappoints me.

I think that Oprah needs to apologize and to recognize her own motivations in everything she does. She also needs to recognize her own transference of her feelings and how that plays into the decisions she makes every day.

I think that as fans and supporters, we need to see all of this for what it is, recognize the good and the bad in this interview, recognize that Michael was human and had faults. However….The way he was portrayed in this was mainly unfair because it made him out to be something that he wasn’t to the general public by neglecting to point out all of the amazing things he did and accomplished and that whole side of his life. Leaving important, revealing information out that could clear someone is just as bad as accusing them falsely.

I think we have to move forward and keep on point in what we want to do, which is to clear Michael’s name and to vindicate him and to honor him and his memory. With giving ourselves time to really take in things that have happened and see them for what they are, it makes it possible to do that.

I think it’s important to refrain from slander against either Oprah or LMP. What we’ve shared so far is mostly our opinions and what went on during this interview, which is healthy for us to do. We have to recognize all of this for what it is.

Let's keep moving forward and remember that this is about Michael, the truth about him (which is why I felt I needed to comment on this interview) and celebrating his life and all that he gave. <3
 
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Jabz is bringing up a hypothetical situation that doesn't exist, trying to guilt trip people who are protecting MJ, and set them up to look like they want to destroy his mother, too, all with nothing but hypothesis. why didn't he say, 'make Lisa Marie look good' or 'make Oprah look good'? why is it always, people are trying to pick and choose truths to only make MJ look good? aside from the fact that it's our inaliable right to say nothing but positives about MJ on an MJ site, what's really happening it, we're asking people not to judge MJ. plain and simple. nothing more. as far as the hypothetical situation, designed to do nothing but place unwarranted guilt for saying positives about MJ...his mother said she never saw him with a problem. so, there you go. why even write that scenario? i'm guessing his mother spent more time knowing about him, inside and out than any human being can do, as far as another person can do. even then, she can't, either. only Michael knew himself. but that doesn't stop people from passing judgement on him, in such subtle ways, that, like Jabz, here, they don't even notice it.

Sorry guys, I had to run. But I want to say I agree with this post. I think some are under the mistaken impression that anyone who does not believe MJ had a problem is in denial. I think it oversimplifies and stupifies any who take that stance. I do think MJ had a problem at one time. After all no one goes tor ehab just for the fun of it. And I do not think that it is something that is easily conquered and he probably slipped at various times in his life. But as someone said, I think Lisa wants to draw so many comparisons between MJ and her father as a way to understand "this incredible person" that she has to understand it anyway she knows how.

She is not even sure herself. She uses words, "I believe", or "I think". She is not even 100% sure. And instead of saying the truth that she was unsure, she gives the connotation that it is absolute. (Now if she says he was absolutely misusing perscriptions, I would have to think twice, since she was married to him. And it might cause me to question the motives of the doctor.) But to take an, "I think so" (meaning nothing concrete) versus a doctor and MJ who say at that time that he was not on drugs and with no other person, AT THAT TIME, saying that he was, why am I only choosing things to make MJ look good by saying it is probable in my eyes that he was not misusing at that time?

I am not a fan that believes MJ was infallable. But I am going to believe a scientific report over what a person says. Especially a person who at the end was seeing MJ infrequently. It is true as someone said that we do not know 100 percent. We cannot tell sometimes who the liars are and who holds the truth. But based on the evidence I have right now, I am going to err on the side that is going to take MJ at his word.

Also Jabz mentions that if we are asked certain things in an interview, we have certain choices. Does Lisa talk about her own problem with drugs often. Does Janet talk about her problem with perscription drugs? Did they talk about MJ's problems when he was alive? Why??? Why all of this talk now? When he was alive they wanted to respect his privacy. You wouldn't dare hear them mention something about that. MJ was alive and could actually defend himself. And if someone asked them something out of line they staunchly refused to speak about certain things in a way to let the interviewer know not to even bother mentioning it again. At this time, they need to be even MORE respectful of MJ and his privacy. They don't even speak of things as a way of teaching. They speak about it as gossip or the latest scoop. If AT THIS TIME, MJ did have a problem, I would not feel differently about him. What I do not like, is this speaking about matters that is a betrayal to MJ's privacy. Lisa had many years to talk about this as being a huge problem in his life while she was dogging him in interview sfter interview. Now because this is what people want her to talk about, it's ok?? I don't agree with that.
 
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This thread is not about the autopsy report or what happened to MJ later in life. This is about Lisa's interview. Let's stick to that please.
 
Sorry guys, I had to run. But I want to say I agree with this post. I think some are under the mistaken impression that anyone who does not believe MJ had a problem is in denial. I think it oversimplifies and stupifies any who take that stance. I do think MJ had a problem at one time. After all no one goes tor ehab just for the fun of it. And I do not think that it is something that is easily conquered and he probably slipped at various times in his life. But as someone said, I think Lisa wants to draw so many comparisons between MJ and her father as a way to understand "this incredible person" that she has to understand it anyway she knows how.

She is not even sure herself. She uses words, "I believe", or "I think". She is not even 100% sure. And instead of saying the truth that she was unsure, she gives the connotation that it is absolute. (Now if she says he was absolutely misusing perscriptions, I would have to think twice, since she was married to him. And it might cause me to question the motives of the doctor.) But to take an, "I think so" (meaning nothing concrete) versus a doctor and MJ who say at that time that he was not on drugs and with no other person, AT THAT TIME, saying that he was, why am I only choosing things to make MJ look good by saying it is probable in my eyes that he was not misusing at that time?

I am not a fan that believes MJ was infallable. But I am going to believe a scientific report over what a person says. Especially a person who at the end was seeing MJ infrequently. It is true as someone said that we do not know 100 percent. We cannot tell sometimes who the liars are and who holds the truth. But based on the evidence I have right now, I am going to err on the side that is going to take MJ at his word.


some may not like this..but Lisa marie talks in a way that sounds very self preserving, and like a person with large ego. so she is not going to say anything that makes her look bad..even if that has to include 'an opology'. a selfless apology and self preserving apology are two different things. a real apology is selfless. so, it's hard for me to know if everything she siad is a story designed to make her look like she couldn't possibly be not so irresistable, and that could reflect in every answer she gave. people accused Michael of making statements that would get him in trouble. in other words..brutally honest statements that some may think make him look like he loved sleeping with children, in the same room. whereas if Lisa were in the same situation, one would get the feeling that she would tailor the sentence to make her look good..and, in the offing, it might be a lie. she might like to sleep in the same room with kids, too, but you'd never hear her word it the way Michael worded it.

still..it's easy to see, MJ's statement was innocent, but there are people who wouldn't like hearing it, so they would twist it.

Lisa would say anything to make sure it's great PR for her, but you can't tell that she is as honest as you can tell MJ is.

in conclusion, you really don't know where she's coming from, but the media will be sympathetic toward her.

you know where Michael comes from, but the media will not be sympathetic toward that.

someone, in an above post titled their long article, 'stop slandering and hating lisa Marie and Oprah.' at that point, who would want to read the rest of it? it sounds one sided. yet i had to read some of it, and it seems to give both sides to a bit of an extent. but why not indicate that in the title, and say 'don't slander and hate on Michael, either'.

a person can give away a lot, by how they talk in general.

Lisa Marie's self preserving way, can really be seen in that she didn't want to come across as not knowing. and the spirit behind her 'i think' and 'i guess' came as if it was an 'i know'. she was always worried about what people will think of what she said. how can she possibly say that she doesn't know about a guy who she spent a lot of time with? so, saying 'i don't know', wasn't in her vocabulary, except when it came to saying she wasn't in a room with him, and only he and a child would know if he molested them. otherwise, she wanted to give the impression she knew everything about their relationship, even with her 'i think's. that's very self preserving, and leaves a lot of room for lies designed to make her look good, even if Michael's image falls off a cliff, in the offing. why couldn't she say 'i think he's not a child molester' and leave it at that, the way she says ' i think he was a train going in a certain direction that no one could stop'. there's a lot that is telling, in making that comparison in her two statements. very thoughtlessly self preserving. not balanced. not balanced at all.
 
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she was referring to the fact that Michael would have to do things to deal with the press!!!!, a the i mean Michael has been in show busines since he was 8 or 9 years old, and he was MICHAEL JACKSON he had certain power, he was manipulative in the way that he felt would help things, not a manipulative person like a bad person would do... i mean Michael if you dont remember was GENIUS and his way of thinking was genius too, he was like a master at everythng and some would call that manipulation, but not in a bad way, only that it all went bad when he started with the bad companion like all those doctors who would fake friendship and caring and just wanted to control him...and HIS MONEY, like LMP said clearly ,the VAMPIRES arround Michael.

No I didn't mean it like that, sorry I wasn't very clear! I know she meant it in that way but it's just the choice of the word 'manipulative'.
 
if you wish, we can talk in pms. it may not be in real time, but i'll certainly respond.

Thanks for that...this is too exhausting for me...it's just too many disagreements, and there is no use anymore....*shrugs shoulders* Unfortunately, my post on this subject has been deleted....
 
ginvid - thanks for all the hard work that you have done in this thread.

loveforever- fantastic post.

I believe that we must keep in mind the motivations of the interviewer and the interviewee. Oprah Winfrey does not like Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley has daddy issues that she has transferred to Michael (as loveforever said).

One of the many things I loved about Michael was that he was never about airing his laundry in public. If Ms Presley felt the need for closure then she needed to write in her journal.

Her interview only adds to the narrative of 'everything was Michael's fault and he brought his death on himself'.
 
Sorry guys, I had to run. But I want to say I agree with this post. I think some are under the mistaken impression that anyone who does not believe MJ had a problem is in denial. I think it oversimplifies and stupifies any who take that stance. I do think MJ had a problem at one time. After all no one goes tor ehab just for the fun of it. And I do not think that it is something that is easily conquered and he probably slipped at various times in his life. But as someone said, I think Lisa wants to draw so many comparisons between MJ and her father as a way to understand "this incredible person" that she has to understand it anyway she knows how.

She is not even sure herself. She uses words, "I believe", or "I think". She is not even 100% sure. And instead of saying the truth that she was unsure, she gives the connotation that it is absolute. (Now if she says he was absolutely misusing perscriptions, I would have to think twice, since she was married to him. And it might cause me to question the motives of the doctor.) But to take an, "I think so" (meaning nothing concrete) versus a doctor and MJ who say at that time that he was not on drugs and with no other person, AT THAT TIME, saying that he was, why am I only choosing things to make MJ look good by saying it is probable in my eyes that he was not misusing at that time?

I am not a fan that believes MJ was infallable. But I am going to believe a scientific report over what a person says. Especially a person who at the end was seeing MJ infrequently. It is true as someone said that we do not know 100 percent. We cannot tell sometimes who the liars are and who holds the truth. But based on the evidence I have right now, I am going to err on the side that is going to take MJ at his word.

Also Jabz mentions that if we are asked certain things in an interview, we have certain choices. Does Lisa talk about her own problem with drugs often. Does Janet talk about her problem with perscription drugs? Did they talk about MJ's problems when he was alive? Why??? Why all of this talk now? When he was alive they wanted to respect his privacy. You wouldn't dare hear them mention something about that. MJ was alive and could actually defend himself. And if someone asked them something out of line they staunchly refused to speak about certain things in a way to let the interviewer know not to even bother mentioning it again. At this time, they need to be even MORE respectful of MJ and his privacy. They don't even speak of things as a way of teaching. They speak about it as gossip or the latest scoop. If AT THIS TIME, MJ did have a problem, I would not feel differently about him. What I do not like, is this speaking about matters that is a betrayal to MJ's privacy. Lisa had many years to talk about this as being a huge problem in his life while she was dogging him in interview sfter interview. Now because this is what people want her to talk about, it's ok?? I don't agree with that.

This will be my last post in this thread but you took every word out of my mouth as for MJ mother she wasn't the only one who said she didn't see MJ having a drug problem I mean I know he was in and out throughout his life. Thats all I will say Thanks a lot Ginvid for keep it real
 
Asedora;3029273 said:
My LAST post here, for sure.

People who want to blame Lisa for her not defending him in 2005 when he needed, to blame her for not loving him enough, not having babies etc have to take their pink glasses off. Do you know folks how it is to live with a genius? Please, find ONE; fall madly in love with him which is not hard at all if on the top of that he will be handsome as God and physically attractive. I really want everybody who blames Lisa “being not good enough for Mike” try to experience it by yourself.

He does not need to be a crazy famous one. There are enough of non famous geniuses in this world. Try to marry him and live a “normal” life with him. Just be prepared that most of times YOU will be a piece of furniture for him, you will be the one he will have sex time to time but at the same time you NEVER will feel that you are just the ONE for him because there tons women outside he does mind to flirt with, giving smiles and kisses, sending presents etc. He never will give you a feeling that you are just the one woman in his life.

I am sure Lisa had to deal with all this crap and it was not easy for her as a woman and it was even more harder because she was a daughter of the King and I am sure marring Michael Jackson, a superstar it was the first time she had to deal with somebody who could put her down. I do believe it was painful.

Do you think folks it was easy for her to see how Michael was kissing his fans on stage? Do you think she did not know how many women did send a love letters to him and how much time he spend reading each of them paying zero attention to Lisa as a wife who was there caring of him and shearing love and bedroom with this person.?

And on top of that geniuses have such thing as “creative process” which never stops really. And most of times they do not want anybody around and cut everybody off. You have to be extremely patient and be prepared that you is not you anymore, you have to lose yourself FOR him without getting anything in return, just waiting and waiting of that one moment and after weeks of waiting he maybe will show his feelings to you. Ppl who blame Lisa for everything are you ready ladies for such sacrifice?

How do you think Lisa would feel being cut off pretty often being madly in love with him? Then once in a while at “highest moments” of their relationships ( as she described those moments), he would turn to 180 degree, drag her down to bedroom, have a wild sex she ever can imagine to “intoxicate her” and the next day she felt like a piece of furniture again because it was OVER, it was just a moment and nothing was stable in relationships with such gifted human being.
Besides, she had to deal with bunch of leaches around him, doctors and his problems with prescribed medications.

It does not mean that he did not love her it just means that gifted ppl are very moody and they do not realize themselves if they love somebody or not. They go with the moment and nothing is stable in their feelings.
When he collapsed on stage in 1995, she was in the hospital trying take care of him but he wanted her out and he put her down in front of everybody. Are you sure ladies who blames Lisa for everything you would be able to deal with that? Are you strong enough and prepared that the person you madly in love with, anytime can put you down like a disposal material?

I am not defending Lisa because some parts of interview about drugs and such I really think were unnecessarily. But I understand her because to be fan and be a wife is 2 different things. Fans fantasize him A LOT , they look at him like he was just a sweet angel everybody has to love and protect. People who thinks that way live in own fantasy world knowing very little about real life and how difficult to live beside a person who gives himself to his art.

Do you think Michael was expressing his love to Lisa the same way how he did it on stage in front t of millions? I doubt it. He was married to his music and I am sure he was not that romantic in personal relationships as some may assume. Once again, it does not mean that he did not love her, he def did but it was just a very unstable and impulsive love and I am sure that in many moments Lisa felt like garbage and disposal material. This is why Lisa said many times that he loved her as much as he could love somebody and I think it is true.
Now, folks who blames Lisa not having babies right away with him I have to remind you that having babies is very serious decision and every woman who does it wants stability in her life, stability in relationships unless this woman have a deal as surrogate and gets money for that. I am sure Lisa did not feel stability in relationships being with Michael and I cannot blame her if she was thinking “too long” about having more children. Once again, I am not Lisa’s fan. I was just trying to make fans to look at this type relationships from a different point of view.
I do not like Rabbi Shmuley, I think he is another leech and nasty guy but I do not think that he is stupid. He is actually very smart and in fact buying his book I really did not want to read his comments and did skip most of them. But one comment really did stuck in my mind. This comment is not from the book but from the video I think. He said that Michael was not capable to have normal relationships with women. I was so angry at him as hell when I heard it the first time because Rabbi Smuley is very negative character in Michael’s life from my point of view. But later on I was thinking that probably rabbi is right here because if Michael was married to his art it is more likely he was not able to express himself in personal relationships as much as he could give himself to his music .
And I do believe Lisa’s words that he loved her as much as he was able love somebody. I think it is very true.
This is a very good post....it you talk about their personal relationship as to how it could of been...I wont deny..because I dont know. The part of that interview that has got alot of us very angry is Lisa's drug addict accusations towards Michael...as many have stated ..she hadnt seen Michael for awhile...so how does she know what he was taking....she doesn't know,,,,if she loved Michael as much as she said that she did in that interview,,,,,then she would of brought her theory about Michael and drugs to her grave,,,she would NEVER of agreed with the very people that killed Michael ..and this is what she did. Possibly even gave the defense more evidence against Michael...to me that is NOT love. She said alot of terrible things about Michael in tht interview,,,he was a master manipulator seh said....she DIDN"T have to agree with Oprah..yet ..she did. I hope when she went home she watched that interview....and said to herself..OMG I am an ass,,I didnt help Michael at all....now there will be no justice for Michael for sure...IMO...her interview sealed the deal for Murray.
 
Great post, Asedora. I have mentioned before (if you don't remember) that I could NEVER marry Michael. He's too damn stubborn and hard-headed, lol. I would NOT be able to handle being his wife because I have a ZERO TOLERANCE for mind games and BS--which is another thing geniuses like to do--fuck with your head.

Artists are always in their own little world, thinking, thinking, thinking. LMP was not just a fan, though... she was "The Daughter of The King." And she grew up with a pretty equal amount of attention since the day she was born.

To the point--The fans want justice for Michael. The ones who voted 'no' hopefully, were not just going completely against her character. They were thinking about the future and the trial. :wink:
 
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