[MERGED] MICHAEL JACKSON & PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

[Bad7]

Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Prince and Madonna have more of a history that MJ. One year MJ got jealous at the grammies or something when Madonna won an award and called her a heifer, because he felt he should have won.

Prince briefly dated here, before she met and married Sean Penn. There is rumours later their relationship soured, she refused to star in 1990s Graffiti Bridge as she knew it was shit, (This was after they taped Love Song in mid 1988 and Prince also played guitar on Act of Contrition and a few other tracks). Basically Love Madonna's music up to the Album Bedtime stories, after that its very hit and miss and the apst 2 albums are unlistenable dross.

Yeah, Taraborelli mentioned the 'heifer' comment in his book. However, it could be a lie given Taraborelli lies straight after that part.

The problem with the part after the 'heifer' comment is, 1. John Branca didn't invent it. 2. Its inaugural year was in 1984.

Sounds to me like Taraborelli with tabloid esque nonsense again.

 

[HIStory]

LOL. Taraborelli is a pathological liar.
I "like it" how he straight up makes up conversations in his book, acting as if he was a fly on the wall. The sad part is when people, even some fans apparently, take this book as if it is fact and as if it is the ultimate Bible on MJ's life.

And yes, that award was created in 1984 and several other artists - inlcuding Madonna - received it before MJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson_Video_Vanguard_Award

MJ received it in 1988 and the award was re-named to include MJ's name in its name in 1991, so three years after MJ already received it.

 

[Bad7]

LOL. Taraborelli is a pathological liar.
I "like it" how he straight up makes up conversations in his book, acting as if he was a fly on the wall. The sad part is when people, even some fans apparently, take this book as if it is fact and as if it is the ultimate Bible on MJ's life.
.

Yeah, there's a heck of lot of supposed conversations in the book. The part about the Chandler saga is hugely biased. It's clear which side he got his information from. Taraborelli makes out as if MJ was in love with Jordy, ffs.

 

[HIStory]

Yeah, there's a heck of lot of supposed conversations in the book. The part about the Chandler saga is hugely biased. It's clear which side he got his information from. Taraborelli makes out as if MJ was in love with Jordy, ffs.

I know. The irony is that after Evan Chandler died Taraborelli said on his Facebook that he met Evan back then and he was crazy and aggressive. Now, that was the first time he admitted he met with the Chandlers. When you read Taraborelli's book it's clear that for the 1993 allegations his sources are Evan and/or Ray Chandler. But he never mentions that in his book. Which would be the fair and honest thing to do because if he said "this information comes from the Chandlers and it's their side of the story" - then the reader could factor the source's bias. Instead JRT just represents these stories and claims that obviously the Chandlers gave him as if they are fact. JRT is very dishonest and very manipulative. I wish fans stopped using him as a source.

 

[Bad7]

I know. The irony is that after Evan Chandler died Taraborelli said on his Facebook that he met Evan back then and he was crazy and aggressive. Now, that was the first time he admitted he met with the Chandlers. When you read Taraborelli's book it's clear that for the 1993 allegations his sources are Evan and/or Ray Chandler. But he never mentions that in his book. Which would be the fair and honest thing to do because if he said "this information comes from the Chandlers and it's their side of the story" - then the reader could factor the source's bias. Instead JRT just represents these stories and claims that obviously the Chandlers gave him as if they are fact. JRT is very dishonest and very manipulative. I wish fans stopped using him as a source.

Yeah, I saw that post. I saw him also say Evan threatened him.

Edit:

I actually knew Evan Chandler. I met him several times in the 1990s. I had lots of secret meetings with Evan Chandler, trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. I was pretty young, sort of green and wish I had my present level of expertise to be able to have applied back then. I have stories about that guy that I have never even published. He was about as inconsistent as they come. He was so determined to get me on his side, I thought he was just a tad scary. If you read my book you sort of get how I felt -- feel -- about him. When it came out, he called me screaming at me for not just buying his story 100%. He actually threatened me, and I thought... okay, pal, now I know who you really are. I wish it had all been handed differently.

This is a paragraph from that Facebook post. ' I had lots of secret meetings with Evan Chandler, trying to get to the bottom of what was going on.' ... dodgy much? Shame Taraborelli didn't mention the inconsistency and threats in his book. Instead he made out as if MJ was obsessed by Jordy.

Plugging his book as well. I don't recall him criticising Evan much in his book. It's a while since I've read the chapter so I could be wrong.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Yeah, Taraborelli mentioned the 'heifer' comment in his book. However, it could be a lie given Taraborelli lies straight after that part.

The problem with the part after the 'heifer' comment is, 1. John Branca didn't invent it. 2. Its inaugural year was in 1984.

Sounds to me like Taraborelli with tabloid esque nonsense again.

why do the people who make up these stories about him always have to make him look like he was someone who just had to be bigger and better than everyone else, and no matter what, he would do whatever it takes?

 

[Bad7]

Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

why do the people who make up these stories about him always have to make him look like he was someone who just had to be bigger and better than everyone else, and no matter what, he would do whatever it takes?

It sells. Unfortunately, a lot of people wouldn't read a book just praising MJ. Whereas Taraborelli making him out to be egotistical and petulant etc sells. Publishers want sensationalism.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

It sells. Unfortunately, a lot of people wouldn't read a book just praising MJ. Whereas Taraborelli making him out to be egotistical and petulant etc sells. Publishers want sensationalism.

yes, I know...but why that specifically? I've read so many stories like that over the years, and not just from Taraborelli. and he wrote so much other crap in his book, it would sell even if he didn't include anything like that

 

[Bad7]

Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

yes, I know...but why that specifically? I've read so many stories like that over the years, and not just from Taraborelli. and he wrote so much other crap in his book, it would sell even if he didn't include anything like that

He's most likely sold more by talking nonsense. The Daily Mail labelled his book something to the words of 'the most complete take on Michael Jackson's life' ... now had it not contained any sensationalism would The Daily Mail of made such a comment and added to the publicity? I doubt it. They probably would of never even printed a review in their paper.

A sensationalised book will, unfortunately, always raise sales figures.

 

[Michaels Lover]

I know...like I said, he wrote so much other crap in his book, it would sell even if he didn't include anything like that. it contained plenty of sensationalism even without that.....

 

[Bad7]

I know...like I said, he wrote so much other crap in his book, it would sell even if he didn't include anything like that. it contained plenty of sensationalism even without that.....

Oh, sorry, I misread. I didn't see you say 'specifically' in a post above. :doh:

 

[mjprince1976]

Can we leave Jordy Charmatz out of this, the fact they couldn't even keep their real name as Chandler sounded less Jewish, just shows you how little respect they had for their own faith, let alone Michael Jackson.

Back to Michael and Prince, yes Taraborelli is a gossip seeking little scamp, but never once did he believe Michael was guilty at a time when Dianne Diamond and every other gutter press hack had all but convicted him both times. But out of all the MJ sources, can you think of a better one, I know its not saying much but JRT did interview Michael several times from the 70s to the late 90s.

Sad as it is, when has anyone ever givenMichael Jackson a fair interview and chance, even his own family talked mess about him (Latoya, Jermaine etc), whether they were put up to it or not, dosen't matter, money talks and bullshit walks. Even now groups like TMZ and the British gutter press (Sun, Daily Mirror, Telegraph, Daily Mail etc) still talk mess and make up bullshit.

Prince has avoided some of the crap that Michael got, but still he featured a lot on TMZ, Hard Copy and the Tabloids, starting in early 1985, when Bodyguard big Chick, made up some crap about Prince having a shrine to Marilyn Monroe and how he used purple toilet paper. Then in 1988 when a story appeared in the Ntaional Enquirer that Prince was a voodoo priest and he had placed ESP on Bubbles and Michael was mad. Prince and Michael both laughed at that one, because they knew it was far fetched.

Believe me I am like you guys, I detest the bullshit and malicious gossip about Michael Jackson and Prince, but the Taraborelli books at least have some truth in them and parts where you know itsMichael Jackson baring his soul and being Michael Jackson.

Prince is like Michael in the sense he has never written a proper autobiography (Moonwalk was a good start, but very all over the place)and loyal fans would be dying to know their truth, but even then a ghost writer or editor may modify the script to make it sound juicier or more scintillating (Grace Jones did that herself, her autobiography is just bizarre!). Several good books exist about Prince, but none are perfect, even the best books have a few errors and its ahrd to be 100% accurate, but with Michael its like 50% would be a start and I would say Taraborelli's book is about 40% accurate on a good day. Adrian Grant's biography is also good, but more a chronology and image collection rather than a deep analysis of Michael Jackson the person and its more Michael Jackson the big star.

And besides aren't we all being prurient in this thread, by wanting to know the dirt on the relationship between Michael Joseph Jackson and Prince Rogers Nelson?

 

[Michaels Lover]

And besides aren't we all being prurient in this thread, by wanting to know the dirt on the relationship between Michael Joseph Jackson and Prince Rogers Nelson?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but it doesn't matter, because I'm not interested in any kind of dirt about anyone. at all. the only book I have ever read about Michael that was written by someone else, is The Magic And The Madness. and that was 20-25 years ago? I don't remember exactly. but I was a kid and I didn't know better. it wasn't long after I had read it, that I found out what trash it was, when some fans started a campaign about boycotting the book. and I've not read a book written about him since then, and I'm not going to. I don't care who it is and what it's about, I am not interested. I'm perfectly fine with sticking to the words by Michael himself. that's all I need, his words. not the words of other people

 

[HIStory]

And besides aren't we all being prurient in this thread, by wanting to know the dirt on the relationship between Michael Joseph Jackson and Prince Rogers Nelson?

That sounds like craving for juicy gossip. I am with Michael's Lover, I am not particularly interested in any "dirt" about anyone.

 

[Bad7]

Can we leave Jordy Charmatz out of this, the fact they couldn't even keep their real name as Chandler sounded less Jewish, just shows you how little respect they had for their own faith, let alone Michael Jackson.

Back to Michael and Prince, yes Taraborelli is a gossip seeking little scamp, but never once did he believe Michael was guilty at a time when Dianne Diamond and every other gutter press hack had all but convicted him both times. But out of all the MJ sources, can you think of a better one, I know its not saying much but JRT did interview Michael several times from the 70s to the late 90s.

Sad as it is, when has anyone ever givenMichael Jackson a fair interview and chance, even his own family talked mess about him (Latoya, Jermaine etc), whether they were put up to it or not, dosen't matter, money talks and bullshit walks. Even now groups like TMZ and the British gutter press (Sun, Daily Mirror, Telegraph, Daily Mail etc) still talk mess and make up bullshit.

Prince has avoided some of the crap that Michael got, but still he featured a lot on TMZ, Hard Copy and the Tabloids, starting in early 1985, when Bodyguard big Chick, made up some crap about Prince having a shrine to Marilyn Monroe and how he used purple toilet paper. Then in 1988 when a story appeared in the Ntaional Enquirer that Prince was a voodoo priest and he had placed ESP on Bubbles and Michael was mad. Prince and Michael both laughed at that one, because they knew it was far fetched.

Believe me I am like you guys, I detest the bullshit and malicious gossip about Michael Jackson and Prince, but the Taraborelli books at least have some truth in them and parts where you know itsMichael Jackson baring his soul and being Michael Jackson.

Prince is like Michael in the sense he has never written a proper autobiography (Moonwalk was a good start, but very all over the place)and loyal fans would be dying to know their truth, but even then a ghost writer or editor may modify the script to make it sound juicier or more scintillating (Grace Jones did that herself, her autobiography is just bizarre!). Several good books exist about Prince, but none are perfect, even the best books have a few errors and its ahrd to be 100% accurate, but with Michael its like 50% would be a start and I would say Taraborelli's book is about 40% accurate on a good day. Adrian Grant's biography is also good, but more a chronology and image collection rather than a deep analysis of Michael Jackson the person and its more Michael Jackson the big star.

And besides aren't we all being prurient in this thread, by wanting to know the dirt on the relationship between Michael Joseph Jackson and Prince Rogers Nelson?

You're right about the derailing. Sometimes threads go that way. It'd be best to forget Jordy and Taraborelli and let this thread return to being about MJ and Prince.

 

[mjprince1976]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but it doesn't matter, because I'm not interested in any kind of dirt about anyone. at all. the only book I have ever read about Michael that was written by someone else, is The Magic And The Madness. and that was 20-25 years ago? I don't remember exactly. but I was a kid and I didn't know better. it wasn't long after I had read it, that I found out what trash it was, when some fans started a campaign about boycotting the book. and I've not read a book written about him since then, and I'm not going to. I don't care who it is and what it's about, I am not interested. I'm perfectly fine with sticking to the words by Michael himself. that's all I need, his words. not the words of other people

That is the J Randy Taraborelli book, the first edition is from 1991, 2nd one is 2003, 3rd in 2004 and last one in 2010. In reality its the same book with new chapters "Tacked on the end".

And guys if you are here in this thread, you are curious about the gossip. If you were not, you would move on to Prince and Michael. An interesting fact, they were born only 11 weeks apart. Michael was born on August 29th 1958 and is a Virgo, Prince was born June 7th 1958 and is a Gemini.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

when somebody is posting a lie people are naturally going to comment, doesn't mean they're interested in gossip.

 

[Michaels Lover]

That is the J Randy Taraborelli book

I know........

when somebody is posting a lie people are naturally going to comment, doesn't mean they're interested in gossip.

yeah, I don't really see any gossip in this thread anyway? :huh: if there is any, it's before I paid attention to the thread, which was when I first posted...I have not read all 10 pages

 

[Kee]

I think Prince and Michael were friend, everything that we saw and that said oterwise was a sort of game for me.
They were both really respectful of the work of other artists so the respect between them couldn't be different, that's all about logic and their character, Michael and him were both nice even if I think Prince is a little bit more like wild ahah

I like them both, that may influence my thoughts but for me they will always be friends in my head anyway

 

[DuranDuran]

bootlegs

I haven't heard anything about that, but what's meant by "bootleg"? Like recording the music on to blank tapes? That was done a lot back in the day. Making mixtapes too. Michael might have done something like that and given the tapes to Prince, if that story is true.

Bootleg was first used for people in the audience recording concerts and making records or tapes of the concerts to sell, which was illegal. There was an episode of the 1970s sitcom What's Happening!!! about this guest starring the Doobie Brothers. It also referred to people selling records of studio recordings and demos that were unreleased. For example, there is a fairly well known bootleg called Toot & Snore In 74 which featured John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, and some others. It is the last known time John & Paul recorded together. The recording itself isn't that great. John was drunk or high, it was unreleased for a reason. But it has historical value to fans. There were also cassette/8-track bootlegs of officially released songs and albums, sometimes called "street tapes". People would sell these on the corner, in store parking lots, and at flea markets. Some of the people selling street tapes in parking lots would also have velvet paintings (ie. soul sisters, Elvis, dogs playing poker, etc)

 

[KOPV]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

Im sure Michael had a lot of bootleg footage... he gathered so much to study for his craft.. a lot more than is released!

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

ok I'm just going to say this... Of course Michael would have bootleg material. He studied music, performance.. MOST before the YouTube age was not released, how do you think he would watch full concerts of artists he looked up to? If they were not released he would most likely ask for it and someone gets it for him..

he could also just have watched them when they came on tv/buy the ones that was released like the rest of us? but then again, I'm not an expert on how many concert he watched. and don't really know how he felt about bootlegs, either

 

[DuranDuran]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

he could also just have watched them when they came on tv/buy the ones that was released like the rest of us? but then again, I'm not an expert on how many concert he watched. and don't really know how he felt about bootlegs, either

Concerts weren't usually shown on TV pre-cable, especially R&B or rock. VCRs became popular in the 1980s. There wasn't really home video before then for most people. Maybe a few people had film projectors, but there wasn't movies commercially sold to play on them. Mostly schools had them. Even today many old concerts that were filmed haven't been officially released yet, like the 1969 Harlem Cultural Festival. Except for maybe really popular bands/singers, there isn't a big market for music on DVD, like there wasn't in the VHS days. There's also publishing issues. It took a long time for seasons of Saturday Night Live to be released on DVD because of song copyrights and getting approval from music acts or whoever owns their image if deceased.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

Structly from memory, I remember reading an article about one of their tours in the 70s and Michael would stay up all night watching tapes and films of entertainers. His brothers would complain about him keeping everyone awake on the bus.

This is many, many years before VHS and VCRs. I always pictured a projector and screen, the way we did home movies. Movie stars always had screening rooms and would get film from film studios, tv studios, etc. I'd imagine they could get all sorts of good stuff.

 

[KOPV]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

he could also just have watched them when they came on tv/buy the ones that was released like the rest of us? but then again, I'm not an expert on how many concert he watched. and don't really know how he felt about bootlegs, either

Well I'll say this... being a dancer myself one thing that I did is research many of the performers and dancers he was influenced by. I thought to myself to really get the essence of what Michael does, study where he studied.. to get in the mental state of where MJ could have been..

In that research I found a lot of things Michael got from unreleased material.. Or much later released after he started specific things...


Lets not forget it would not be to hard for Mike to say the words "I want all James Brown concerts" and for someone to just get it for him.. It's very possible for him to get copies of masters straight from companies that hold it...

 

[mjprince1976]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

The Bootleg story is nonsense, princeorg has its share of trolls and rumour mongers too. Prince did not meet MJ at least until 1983 or later. The James Brown thing with the video is apparently a fake. The magic of photoshop.

MJ barely knew of Prince before 1999 the album blew up in 1983. Even in June 1984 when he saw Purple Rain privately, he claimed Prince was too rough on women and could not understand why such a ladykiller wore so much makeup.

Their first dinner together was 1985 or early 1986 and apparently Latoya came and Prince made a pass at her, at the same dinner or another one, Prince gave MJ a feather inside a box, which freaked MJ out. This led to a rash of gossip tales that Prince was into Voodoo and had even hexed Bubbles in late 1987, even MJ laughed at that story. Then we have the Pinpong story where Prince got real rough and scared Michael.

More friendly was that Prince turned down the duet on Bad, as he knew it was going to be a hit, without his help. Part of the reason there is so little concrete material, is that Prince in the 1980s was just too busy for socialising with other celebrities. Whereas Michael released 4 albums between 1979 and 1991 (6 if you include the Jacksons ones), Prince did 14 and also 4 for the Time, 3 for Sheila E and 1 each for Apollonia, Vanity, Jill Jones, George Clinton,The Family and Mavis Staples, along with writing songs for other artists, and then the mountains of unreleased songs and albums he also completed. He also did 4 movies and did 11 tours. Then count the time he spent creating the music and sleeping/eating/sexing (If you believe the lyrics) and meditating, that leaves little time for partying with Michael Jackson.

Prince never made anywhere near the same level of money or success as Michael did. Of his albums, only Purple Rain sold over 10 million and many like Lovesexy and Controversy barely went platinum. Prince was a successful artist and wealthy because of his tours, songwriter royalties and production credits rather than performance fees. He was very much in house and being writer, producer, arranger and performer (He played all the instruments and taught band members their parts) he would have saved on some of the costs MJ had to pony up.

 

[mjprince1976]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

And besides Prince hated bootlegs and got annoyed when so many of his muscial projects, abandoned songs, live performances and out takes fed a thriving bootleg trade. At one stage, he called in all fans to return any bootleg albums, tapes and discs to be sent to him in 2002 and they were destroyed in a bonfire at Paisley Park. Needless to say, fans mostly laughed at it.

If this is how Prince felt about people bootlegging his music, why would he openly sanction the bootlegging of other peoples music. Unlike MJ, Prince never decided to buy any song catalogues and spent most of his money on making more music, touring, paying band members and studio staff and keeping Paisley Park running (It costs several million a year to keep open and now they offer the studios to outside artists at times) when Prince or a protege is not using it - PP has 2 main studios, a large performing area, an attic studio, music suites and accommodation along as being the home of Prince himself after he destroyed the mansion he built in 1986 sometime around 2004.

Most of the artwork is based around him and judging by some photos, it barely stays open, lawns don't get mowed for months at a time, and even staff are waiting months for backpay at times.

 

[DuranDuran]

And besides Prince hated bootlegs and got annoyed when so many of his muscial projects, abandoned songs, live performances and out takes fed a thriving bootleg trade.

I think it was Alan Leeds who talked about Mike & the bootlegs or maybe one of Prince's former band members. What would be the point of making something like that up? Prince claims to not like Youtube and takes his videos down, yet he has said to have discovered people that he hired for his band on Youtube videos. Prince (or whoever runs it) even posted a link on Facebook or Twitter so that followers can watch an audience filmed 2015 Morris Day & The Time concert (which is technically a bootleg), lol. Prince was talking about hating CONtracts and then wrote slave on his face. Yet he told The Time, he owned the name and they couldn't use it for their album, and he has people sign confidentiality agreements. So they called themselves Original 7ven. He said the internet was dead, but made a deal with Tidal. Prince always says one thing and does another or changes his mind.

 

[HIStoric]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

The James Brown thing with the video is apparently a fake. The magic of photoshop.

...are you... are you talking about this video?... because this most definitely happened.

Or what are you referring to exactly?

 

[mjprince1976]

Re: Did Michael give bootlegs to Prince?

...are you... are you talking about this video?... because this most definitely happened.

Or what are you referring to exactly?

Its photoshopped, made to look like it is that old, actually a James Brown show from 1981 with MJ Cameoing and the Prince coverage is mashed in from a 1983 Rick James show apparently.