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[MERGED] MICHAEL JACKSON & PRINCE : Friends or Foes? (The Historic Rivalry)

He certainly used mystery for PR, but I think the mysterious image also was (or at least became) a way to kind of cope with his fame. I think he liked it because that way he didn't have to completely show himself to the world all the time.. kinda like wearing shades - it probably just made him feel more comfortable. I'm surprised Madonna, knowing what it's like to be famous, can't see past that.
If I would've been Michael, I wouldn't have felt the need to 'mingle with humanity' that much either, to be honest. It doesn't mean you're not a human being.

MattyJam;4129165 said:
I can’t imagine either of those guys putting on sweat pants and sneakers and going for a run, playing outside with a dog or just being silly and hanging out with your friends without your make-up on. You know what I mean? I don’t think they do that.”
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LOL, wearing sweats (or pj's :D), not wearing make up and being silly with friends.. I don't think she realizes that's actually a pretty accurate description of 'private Michael', from what I've seen :lol: Maybe he just kept his guard up around her and never showed that side of himself? ..He did say he didn't like her after all, lol.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Tony R said:
I think it's more than fair to say MJ was too isolated from the rest of society. Not necessaily his fault, as he was plucked out of 'normal' society frombefore he was 10 years old.
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MattyJam said:
I actually thought Madonna's words were quite funny, especially the part about feeling like a clumsy farm girl around Prince and MJ. I don't believe she was talking with any degree of malice and she actually raised some valid points about them both isolating themselves from reality.

I do think MJ found it difficult relating to adults, probably because he'd been exposed to all kinds of shady entertainment types as a young child and that obviously left a lasting impression on him into adulthood. I think the kinds of people you mix with in the entertainment industry are probably very different from the types of ordinary work-a-day types we all have to be around in our everyday lives. There's a lot of snakes, a lot of people with hidden agendas, and when you factor into account that his own father fits this description to a T, then you might begin to have some kind of understanding as to why MJ felt so alienated and guarded as an adult.
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I very much with you guys, except maybe about the assertion about Joe Jackson. I think he was a very strong willed man who wanted the best for his children, a man who made his share of mistakes in pursuing that worthwhile goal. I don't think it's fair to compare him to the usual leeches which inhabit the entertainment business.

Also I don't believe there was any malice in Madonna's words. Not only that, but the quote is from 2001. Plenty of things have happened since then. Irrespective of everything though, the point remains that Michael has been terribly isolated most of his life. It is a complete shame that the circumstances of his life didn't allow him to develop significant, meaningful and lasting relationships with adults. It is no wonder that he found refuge in relating to children and animals and he identified them as the only source of purity in the world, but it is also a sad conclusion to be reached.

Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that he didn't have a full life and plenty of reasons for happiness, on and off stage. In spite of his many tribulations, he was a man with a most successful life. Not only did his art and career take him beyond the stratosphere and made him a hero to millions, but also his family life gave him plenty of blessings - fatherhood was probably his greatest achievement and also as a son, uncle and brother he was incredibly affectionate and kind.

Returning now to the extraordinary circumstances of his life - people tend to look at artists' lyrics in search of autobiographical references in them. I don't know about the rest of the song, but there is one particular line in Carousel which strikes me as terribly accurate of Michael's life "I'm from a world of disappointments and confusions". I think it's safe to say that was a painfully accurate description of Michael's relating to the adults in his life.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Tony R said:
I don't feel it's necessary to be sanctimonious, (albeit it is your most over-riding trait), when the history of threads will usually prove me right.
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Well you just unnecessarily lashed out at MJ fans IMO. That's all whether it's "sanctimonious" or not.
 
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Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

respect77 said:
Well you just unnecessarily lashed out at MJ fans IMO. That's all whether it's "sanctimonious" or not.
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Hardly 'lashed out'!

But that's okay.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Returning now to the extraordinary circumstances of his life - people tend to look at artists' lyrics in search of autobiographical references in them. I don't know about the rest of the song, but there is one particular line in Carousel which strikes me as terribly accurate of Michael's life "I'm from a world of disappointments and confusions". I think it's safe to say that was a painfully accurate description of Michael's relating to the adults in his life.
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Things I Do For You -

Always wanting something for nothing
Especially what they don't deserve
Reaching in my pocket
I just got to stop it
Even though they got a lot of nerve
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

What you guys are saying here in this thread is true Michael was not able to related to adults his life was not normal he was around more adults then he was young peoples the places their went when their were young nightclubs nothings but adults that why i feel the world misunderstood Michael and why he felt the way he did for the young peoples he just could not trust adult like it was mention he was put in the position to be the bread winner it was all on his. It not good to be from the world isolated but in Michael case that what he had to do ppls always wanting him to do things for them.


Girl i agree with you on this 100%

people tend to look at artists' lyrics in search of autobiographical references in them. I don't know about the rest of the song, but there is one particular line in Carousel which strikes me as terribly accurate of Michael's life "I'm from a world of disappointments and confusions". I think it's safe to say that was a painfully accurate description of Michael's relating to the adults in his life.

IMO that would explain.
 
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Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Those thoughts were coming from an individual that got to experience everyday life, attend elementary school, high school, and college, make friends, REAL friends, and live in relative anonymity throughout their impressionable years and attain fame in their early 20's. I don't really see any malice in what she thought at the time, just a different take on dealing with fame. She would obviously change her perspective on this issue just a couple years later, following the Bashir interview, and even gain a better understanding after his passing.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

MattyJam said:
[youtube]IBWi96vEMuY[/youtube]
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I've always hollered at that part, from day one of the video's debut, lol! It's true (in more ways than one) that he isn't like other guys. Prince, too. That's what makes them so damn awesome in my eyes/heart. I find no fault in what Madonna said.
 
[h=2]After Madonna's St. Paul, Minnesota show, singer and entire touring entourage visit Prince's nearby complex[/h] By Daniel Kreps <time>October 9, 2015 Rolling Stone</time>
720x405-prince-madonna02.jpg

Two musical titans collided in Minnesota late Thursday night as Madonna attended an intimate Paisley Park jam session hosted by Prince. Minnesota public radio station the Current reports that Madonna and her entire touring crew – having performed at St. Paul's Xcel Energy Center earlier in the night – ventured to Prince's nearby Chanhassen, Minnesota complex to watch the rocker and his backing band 3rd Eye Girl deliver a late-night gig.

According to the Current, a handpicked group of roughly 30 people were notified earlier in the night that something "extra-special" might go down, and by 1:30 a.m., Madonna and her crew began disembarking tour buses. Before Prince took the stage, Madonna's dancers turned the sparsely packed Paisley Park venue into a synchronized dance party. At 2:15 a.m. local time, Prince, accompanied by Madonna, finally made his way onstage. However, Madonna took her spot in a roped-off VIP section to watch Prince perform.

Prince's short set featured new track "Stare," three Hit N Run Phase One tracks ("X's Face," "1000 Xs & Os," "Ain't About to Stop"), an extended cover of Bill Withers' "Use Me" and renditions of the title tracks from Guitar and Sign o' the Times. At one point during the show, Madonna and Prince briefly "whispered something back and forth" before Madonna and her touring crew left the building. While the Current's account of the evening ends at 3 a.m., Prince reportedly played two more after-hours sets, even inviting the remaining fans onstage.

Sadly, the evening did not feature a duet of "Love Song," Prince and Madonna's Like a Prayer collaboration. In 2011, the years-long, much-publicized feud between the two icons came to an end after Madonna was spotted at Prince's Madison Square Garden in New York. The pair briefly dated in 1984, but snippy comments made in the ensuing years caused a rift between the artists.

Madonna at one point called Prince "a little troll," adding in a 1994 interview that while on a date with Purple Rain singer, "He was just sipping tea, very daintily. I have this theory about people who don't eat. They annoy me." Over a dozen years later, at a 2007 London concert, Prince joked, "I got so many hits y'all can't handle me. I got more hits than Madonna's got kids."
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

Prince and Madonna have more of a history that MJ. One year MJ got jealous at the grammies or something when Madonna won an award and called her a heifer, because he felt he should have won.

Prince briefly dated here, before she met and married Sean Penn. There is rumours later their relationship soured, she refused to star in 1990s Graffiti Bridge as she knew it was shit, (This was after they taped Love Song in mid 1988 and Prince also played guitar on Act of Contrition and a few other tracks). Basically Love Madonna's music up to the Album Bedtime stories, after that its very hit and miss and the apst 2 albums are unlistenable dross.
 
Re: Madonna speaks about MJ and Prince's similarities (2001)

mjprince1976 said:
Prince and Madonna have more of a history that MJ. One year MJ got jealous at the grammies or something when Madonna won an award and called her a heifer, because he felt he should have won.

Prince briefly dated here, before she met and married Sean Penn. There is rumours later their relationship soured, she refused to star in 1990s Graffiti Bridge as she knew it was shit, (This was after they taped Love Song in mid 1988 and Prince also played guitar on Act of Contrition and a few other tracks). Basically Love Madonna's music up to the Album Bedtime stories, after that its very hit and miss and the apst 2 albums are unlistenable dross.
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Source?
 
I don't know man, I returned the book to the library a couple of months ago.
 
mjprince1976 said:
J Randy Taraborelli book - 2010 edition
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Since you said in the other thread you believe Randall Sullivan's book and now quote Taraborelli as if it's fact, let me say this: never take any books about MJ as gospel truth. Most of them contain a lot of nonsense, including Sullivan and Taraborelli's books.

I don't know how it is in the Prince world but MJ books generally aren't too reliable unfortunately - unless they are focused on the music specifically. Those about only the music tend to be better than these so called "biopgraphies" where you will find fact mixed with fiction.
 
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I never have respect77, but I see a kernel of truth there in parts of both books, plus Taraborelli was one of the few journos that MJ trusted and it helped that the author was a MJ fan. Knowing that Prince is also very show and like MJ makes a career out of being mysterious, it is always going to be speculation.

Generally as Prince fan, I always held the view, the rivalry was placed by lazy journalists, who saw MJ and Prince as similar artists, because both were black and superstars that had a loyal white as well as black following. As Prince said in an interview, it was lazy journalism and not always to believe what some mamma jamma in an alligator shirt behind a keyboard says. In many ways they were different, MJ's music was strictly commercial aimed at the charts and fans and designed to be crowd pleasing, an awesome singer and dancer, his skills in producing and writing owe much to outside producers and engineers as much as himself.

Prince on the other hand was more a musician than an artist, he wrote 99% of everything, played all the music, produced and did several other artists and wrote songs for other artists (Michael was offered a few like "Wouldn't u love 2 love me"). Prince's failing was his over prolific output and lack of quality control. Princes best songs and albums match MJ's but a lot of Prince material is very sub par and MJ would never think of releasing it.

Also MJ was not too happy with the comparisons to Prince, as he felt he wore too much make up and mistreated women as noticed in Purple Rain, also the official encounters, one in 1986 when Prince challenged MJ to a table tennis match and Prince was very aggressive, also when MJ invited Prince to Hayvenhurst and gave him a box with a feather inside and MJ thought it was voodoo, Prince also made a less than subtle pass at Latoya. Of course the Bad story about the line "Your butt is mine" but in reality Prince decided the song would be a huge hit without his help. Michael thought Prince was too fast and loose and Prince thought Michael was too clean and too limited in his scope, it is probable Prince did not approve of the plastic surgeries either "My voice is getting higher and I ain't never had my nose" Prince wanted to respect musicians like Miles Davis, James Brown and John Coltrane rather than what he saw a spop sensations like Madonna and Michael. Basically he was a snob. Besides the Bad snub, table tennis, latoya, the voodoo box there was We are the world, whereas rather than singing at the session, Prince went out clubbing and his bouncers beat up a paparazzo. I believe the esp on bubbles was a load of rubbish and did not happen.

I will go on record as saying Prince was and still is a snob, and he was towards michael snubbing him several times. I mean Prince barely mentions other artists at all, even David Bowie got a begruding mention at his Jan 21st concert. But I agree, there is a lot of rubbish going around out there and also both being black, eccentric and very successful has lead lazy non black journalists to lump them together a lot with out digging deeper and relaising both are very different people.
 
And believe me all of you,

It has never been asy being a fan of both, lately I spend a lot of time defending Prince here, and Michael Jackson on the prince.org!!!

The main reason is lazy journalism, both are uniquely gifted artists and people, but this lazy ass media can not or want to separate them as distinctive and unique individuals.
 
mjprince1976 said:
I never have respect77, but I see a kernel of truth there in parts of both books, plus Taraborelli was one of the few journos that MJ trusted and it helped that the author was a MJ fan.
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Well, that MJ trusted him is only JRT's claim, that's never been corroborated by any actual evidence. He can claim about himself whatever he likes to boost his status, I hope you realize that doesn't necessarily make it true. Especially when the guy is a proven liar. All JRT ever did to prove his supposed friendship with MJ was showing a pic of them together in the late 70s. Any fan could have such a photo with MJ. Doesn't prove anything. If they were indeed as close as JRT claims why doesnt he have any more pics, later pics with him?
 
mjprince1976 said:
And believe me all of you,

It has never been asy being a fan of both, lately I spend a lot of time defending Prince here, and Michael Jackson on the prince.org!!!

The main reason is lazy journalism, both are uniquely gifted artists and people, but this lazy ass media can not or want to separate them as distinctive and unique individuals.
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I've never got the 'either/or' attitude in music.

Why Jackson or Prince?
Why Madonna or Gaga?
Why Beatles or Stones?
Why Bowie or Beiber?

Okay I may have made that last one up

It only seems to be music where there is this bizarre rivalry.

In art you never hear 'Picasso vs. Rembrandt', in film it's never 'Tarantino or Scorcese'.

I love both MJ & Prince (albeit MJ a lot more :)) and feel lucky to have seen them both live & to have grown up in an era where we had these massive icons such as MJ, Prince, Madonna & Springsteen.

There's no way I'd punish myself by only allowing to like one & not the other. Crazy.
 
Tony R said:
I've never got the 'either/or' attitude in music.

Why Jackson or Prince?
Why Madonna or Gaga?
Why Beatles or Stones?
Why Bowie or Beiber?

Okay I may have made that last one up

It only seems to be music where there is this bizarre rivalry.

In art you never hear 'Picasso vs. Rembrandt', in film it's never 'Tarantino or Scorcese'.

I love both MJ & Prince (albeit MJ a lot more :)) and feel lucky to have seen them both live & to have grown up in an era where we had these massive icons such as MJ, Prince, Madonna & Springsteen.

There's no way I'd punish myself by only allowing to like one & not the other. Crazy.
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:punk:
 
Tony R said:
I've never got the 'either/or' attitude in music.

Why Jackson or Prince?
Why Madonna or Gaga?
Why Beatles or Stones?
Why Bowie or Beiber?

Okay I may have made that last one up

It only seems to be music where there is this bizarre rivalry.

In art you never hear 'Picasso vs. Rembrandt', in film it's never 'Tarantino or Scorcese'.

I love both MJ & Prince (albeit MJ a lot more :)) and feel lucky to have seen them both live & to have grown up in an era where we had these massive icons such as MJ, Prince, Madonna & Springsteen.

There's no way I'd punish myself by only allowing to like one & not the other. Crazy.
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Well maybe, but on this forum, there are lot of people who seem to think that liking Prince is an inditable crime. I get the same hate from prince.org over Michael Jackson. Just because you and I are open minded, does not mean that everyone else is. I mean I am forever having to prove my self here whenever I quote anyone. I had not had that level of scrutiny since I was writing university essays and quoting authors ad nauseaum.
 
mjprince1976 said:
Well maybe, but on this forum, there are lot of people who seem to think that liking Prince is an inditable crime. I get the same hate from prince.org over Michael Jackson. Just because you and I are open minded, does not mean that everyone else is. I mean I am forever having to prove my self here whenever I quote anyone. I had not had that level of scrutiny since I was writing university essays and quoting authors ad nauseaum.
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Maybe instead of talking about Michael Jackson over Prince.org and about Prince in MJJC, you should stick to the board subject. Maybe THEN you won't get that so called "hate". I didn't see anyone here calling it an inditable crime. There are a lot of Prince fans in MJJC but most of them do other things besides comparing MJ to Prince all the time.
 
mjprince1976 said:
Well maybe, but on this forum, there are lot of people who seem to think that liking Prince is an inditable crime.
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Who? Can you show them?

I haven't seen hate levelled at Prince on MJJC. Most MJ fans mind MJ's business, they don't talk or care about Prince much.

I mean I am forever having to prove my self here whenever I quote anyone. I had not had that level of scrutiny since I was writing university essays and quoting authors ad nauseaum.
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That your statements were challenged was due to the fact that your source was not credible (JRT) yet you quoted him as if what he wrote was a fact. It had nothing to do with Prince whom I actually like as an artist.
 
I've never seen anyone hate on Prince on here, either...far from it. I have seen a lot of people talk about they like him
 
Michaels Lover said:
I've never seen anyone hate on Prince on here, either...far from it. I have seen a lot of people talk about they like him
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As someone who is a fan of both and who has been a frequent member of MJJC, KOP, the Org and Housequake, I can say Prince fans are more guilty of the "MJ vs Prince" bs and many still have a strong hate for MJ as an artist and person.

The crap I've seen Prince fans write about MJ (and other artists) is why I quit going to prince.org regularly back in 2013. Some people can't accept that you can be a fan of both of them smh
 
But I am a fan of both and do not compare them all the time, I cross reference them a lot, as there are a lot of similarities which none of us can deny.

1. Both are Black
2. Both are Midwestern
3. Both had abusive and distant fathers (Prince had two, John L Nelson and Hayward Baker)
4. Both saw music as a lifeline
5. Both are exceptional singers and dancers (If you don't believe me, watch a Parade show and see Prince do the splits 10 times in a row)
6. Both have a massive cross over audience
7. Both are cult artists with a huge following
8. Both are and were perceived as being eccentric
9. Both were quite shy and socially awkward off stage
10. Both were extremely funky and iconic
11. Both rose to huge fame in the 1980s (Although MJ got his start earlier in the J5)
12. Both sang similar songs in a pop/soul/funk range.
13. After the interest in Thriller had died down, many got into the whole Purple Rain thing
14. MJ almost certainly made Moonwalker in response to Prince's movies Purple Rain, Under the Cherry Moon and Sign o the Times.
15. 1987 Saw the release of Bad and Sign of the Times, albums considered amongst the finest put out by both artists.
16. 1991 saw critically acclaimed come backs by both, Dangerous and Diamonds and Pearls (Black or White followed Cream to the top of the charts), yet in reality MJ and Prince had not gone away
17. 1982 was the release of Thriller and 1999, breakthroughs for both, although neither album really hit until 1983.
18. 1979 saw MJ release "Off the wall", which was a big hit and Prince had his first minor breakthrough with I wanna be your lover off the Prince album.
19. 1995 was the release of History a well received album and Prince released the Gold Experience, a huge critical and fan based success but a commercial flop.
20. 2001 saw the release of 2 poor albums by both artists - Invincible and the rainbow children.
21. Both were or are Jehovahs Witnesses and have evangelised for them (Prince converted in 1997 from Adventism)
22. Both quoted singing in church as their start in singing in public
23. Both really did not liked interviews, MJ said that interviewers changed things around in print and Prince insisted in taping his interviews and would end them if the interviewer asked inapropriate questions.
24. Both got angry at their record companies - Prince at WB between 1994/96 and MJ at Sony in 2002.
25. Both were close to their mothers, Michael with Katherine and Prince would deliberately not singing his x rated lyrics when mother - Mattie Shaw was in the audience.
26. Prince had a Latoya like sister called Tyka.
27. Both were very fond of make up
28. Prince also had struggles with his skin colour, notice how pale he was during the Lovesexy (1988) and Gold Experience (1994 -1995) eras.

So that is probably why myself and a few others continually compare the brothers.

Plus Prince did watch Michael's career, he was at a Jacksons Victory show in Dallas in June 1984 and was snubbed when Michael Refused to meet up with him, in reality the Jacksons were being mobbed by fans and had to flee the venue. A few days later Michael was watching Purple Rain in a private screening at Burbank and Prince was laying down tracks at Sunset sound, MJ went in and the two apparently hung out, MJ was scared and excited knowing that Purple Rain was going to be huge and it was believed Prince put off the tour to November as he knew MJ wanted to get the Victory tour well over. (Source, Alan Light - Lets Go Crazy 2014)

The same charity was not shown in 1988, when the Bad tour rolled through Europe and America, hot on its heels was the Lovesexy in the Round tour which was catching audiences almost as large as the Jackson shows. Michael played Wembley through July 1988 and Prince was there in August. All I have to say, is lucky fans I am sure many would enjoy seeing their icons Michael and Prince so close together.
 
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