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Michael Jackson Death Investigation Complete (TMZ - merged)

ensleyave said:
It angers me when people say this. Look He is DEAD. You want us to take him out of the wall and arrest him?
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Yes please!! Some people will never be quiet until they dig him up and do just that. (Sarcasm)
 
ensleyave said:
I've said that from day one. They are going to try their best to make him seem like he asked for it and the media will make a turn around and get on the defense bandwagon. That is how it works over here. Mark my words.
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Very unfortunately I slowly start to believe this, too!
 
well thats murrays only defence. its hardly gonna be surprising. and if murray uses that defence hes incriminating himself by admitting he shouldnt have been giving mj that stuff in the first place yet did.
 
Havent read this thread entirely but from what Im reading I just cant believe how much doctors are protected in the eyes of the law. They carry peoples lives in their hands, yet Murray wasnt breaking a law by administering a drug outside of normal protocol that ended in Michaels life being taken. Im sorry, but you just CANNOT get off with a mere explanation of severe negligence and walk free.

This case is so effed up. Flaws from the beginning, and Im still not convinced Murray acted alone anyway yet thats a side to the case that may never ever truly come to light.

Feeling very powerless now.
 
As TMZ first reported, the LAPD is expected to hand over their case to the L.A. District Attorney in a matter of weeks. We're told the D.A will almost certainly criminally charge Murray in MJ's death.
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... is expected to hand over IN A MATTER OF WEEKS!

How long will it remain still????
 
emmah24 said:
Havent read this thread entirely but from what Im reading I just cant believe how much doctors are protected in the eyes of the law. They carry peoples lives in their hands, yet Murray wasnt breaking a law by administering a drug outside of normal protocol that ended in Michaels life being taken. Im sorry, but you just CANNOT get off with a mere explanation of severe negligence and walk free.

This case is so effed up. Flaws from the beginning, and Im still not convinced Murray acted alone anyway yet thats a side to the case that may never ever truly come to light.

Feeling very powerless now.
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Well, there is a flip side to what you just said here.

Often drugs are used off label to help people and if doctors are questioned or unable to do this in the future, it can prevent many people from receiving treatment they really need. Many times it is a good thing.

I don't think doctors are protected in the eyes of the law. I think it is a misunderstanding as to what is legal and what is not. Everyone is assuming it was illegal to give the Propofol at home and it isn't that simple. This is why they bring into the investigations professionals who are knowledgeable in that area.

We really don't want that practice of using 'off label' medications to stop because it is often very beneficial to people who are sick and need medicine that is not conventional or usual to treat their illness. There may come a time in your life when you know someone who may die if they don't get treatment and it would be a shame for the doctors to tell you "well....we believe this drug will cure this patient but we can not give it since it is for XXX and not approved for use to treat that. Sorry. You can not have it."

This is where it becomes more important to show standard protocols and negligence that makes sense in this case which I am sure they are trying to do.
 
Beachlover said:
Well, there is a flip side to what you just said here.

Often drugs are used off label to help people and if doctors are questioned or unable to do this in the future, it can prevent many people from receiving treatment they really need. Many times it is a good thing.

I don't think doctors are protected in the eyes of the law. I think it is a misunderstanding as to what is legal and what is not. Everyone is assuming it was illegal to give the Propofol at home and it isn't that simple. This is why they bring into the investigations professionals who are knowledgeable in that area.

We really don't want that practice of using 'off label' medications to stop because it is often very beneficial to people who are sick and need medicine that is not conventional or usual to treat their illness. There may come a time in your life when you know someone who may die if they don't get treatment and it would be a shame for the doctors to tell you "well....we believe this drug will cure this patient but we can not give it since it is for XXX and not approved for use to treat that. Sorry. You can not have it."

This is where it becomes more important to show standard protocols and negligence that makes sense in this case which I am sure they are trying to do.
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Thanks for the insight Beachlover.
 
UPDATED: L.A. D.A. calls Jackson doc manslaughter indictment story 'bogus'; Murray rep responds to report
by Whitney Pastorek
Categories: News
Jane Robison, a spokeswoman for the L.A. district attorney’s office, called reports that Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson’s physician, will be indicted on charges of involuntary manslaughter “bogus” when contacted by EW.com this afternoon. The Associated Press reported that a law enforcement source, speaking anonymously, said the case is edging near an indictment and that Murray would be “prosecuted on a theory of gross negligence alleging that his treatment of Jackson was an extreme departure from the standard of care normally followed by physicians.”

The L.A. D.A., Sandi Gibbons was quoted in the AP story as saying, “no final decision has been made.” When contaced by EW on Friday afternoon, Robison stood by that statement. “Nothing has changed,” the D.A. spokeswoman told EW.com. “It’s a bogus report. We don’t have the case.”

A spokeswoman for Dr. Murray sent EW.com the following statement: “We have refused to comment on stories involving unnamed sources and will continue to do so. However, we can confirm that we have not received notice of an impaneled grand jury and Dr. Murray has not been invited to testify. J. Michael Flanagan was added to Dr. Conrad Murray’s defense team this past week. His offices are in Glendale, California.” Flanagan is the attorney who represented Britney Spears in a hit-and-run case. He told the AP he once also successfully defended a nurse who was acquitted in an LA trial after being accused of administering propofol to a patient who died.

Murray has been under investigation for some time in connection with the death of Jackson, which has officially been ruled a homicide caused by acute propofol intoxication. According to previously released court documents, the Houston-based physician allegedly purchased the drug in Nevada and shipped it to California, where he allegedly administered it to the late pop singer on the afternoon of his death.

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2010/01/08/jackson-doc-manslaughter-indictment-report-bogus/

You guys just when wwe thought it might be bad for him to get In Man., I guess when faced with the idea that he may not be charged at all it begins to look even a little better. tehre was talk that the DA was waiting to see how the Anna Nicole case went against her doctors to see how to proceed with this case. To see if a precedence would be set.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.:no:
 
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You guys just when wwe thought it might be bad for him to get In Man., I guess when faced with the idea that he may not be charged at all it begins to look even a little better. tehre was talk that the DA was waiting to see how the Anna Nicole case went against her doctors to see how to proceed with this case. To see if a precedence would be set. but theyw ere found not guilty. i hope that has not made them doubt too much.
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anna nicole case has nothing to do with mj. totally different. the case has not even come to trial yet let alone being found not guilty this article originates from access hollywood. they twisted the words to make it looks like a new story when all its telling us is the sameas everyone else. the D.A has not been given the case yet. so at this stage there are no charges
 
jilliebean said:
I don't believe for a second that michael begged or even asked for that drug.
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I understand if one were sceptical about Michael's actions, but to disregard them completely is to debase your own counter-argument.

These amateur investigations are being blown out of proportion given that many of the public sources used by the fan detectives are not strong enough for such a serious situation that is clearly out of their hands.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
anna nicole case has nothing to do with mj. totally different. the case has not even come to trial yet let alone being found not guilty this article originates from access hollywood. they twisted the words to make it looks like a new story when all its telling us is the sameas everyone else. the D.A has not been given the case yet. so at this stage there are no charges
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I edited my post about them going to trial and it being over. It said the preliminary trial was over at TMZ. (Talk about selective reading. Thanks for setting me straight:yes:).

(And I know that TMZ is not the best source, but they said the Anna Nicole Smith case was being used as a gauge for MJs case and that was one reason they were taking so long- to see how that case turned out. I am trying to find that link so it is explained properly what they mean by that.)
 
arXter said:
I understand if one were sceptical about Michael's actions, but to disregard them completely is to debase your own counter-argument.

These amateur investigations are being blown out of proportion given that many of the public sources used by the fan detectives are not strong enough for such a serious situation that is clearly out of their hands.
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I think the poster was just offering an opinion? There is room for variety in opinions, I'd hope? My own OPINION is that we have no way of knowing if Michael did or did not "beg for Propofol." We simply do not know, and he's not here to tell us.

I hope we're not going there in terms of the validity, or NON-validity of various "investigations?" That will probably derail the thread. (You have no way of knowing if "investigations" only include "public sources," so best not to go there at all?)

Back to the topic. It now seems as though the TMZ "leak" was inaccurate.
 
Victoria83 said:
I think the poster was just offering an opinion? There is room for variety in opinions, I'd hope? My own OPINION is that we have no way of knowing if Michael did or did not "beg for Propofol." We simply do not know, and he's not here to tell us.

I hope we're not going there in terms of the validity, or NON-validity of various "investigations?" That will probably derail the thread. (You have no way of knowing if "investigations" only include "public sources," so best not to go there at all?)
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And I offered what, fact? What part of my post did you not consider in your "room" of opinions? And why is your post littered with rhetorical questions? Now you got me doing it too?
 
You are right. We can not completely rule that out. The fact is known of us was there and really have no clue of really went on in that room. But to say it with conviction. This is based of off Murray's statement. Murray has been proven to be a liar numerous times. To believe anything that comes out of his mouth is pointless. Everything he has stated (IMO) is to cover his own butte. I personally believe Michael was gone long before the time Murray mentions. Of course I was not there, this is what my gut is telling me and I am going with it. I have no proof to back this up since I have heard no reports either way about his state of lividity.

I also do not believe he begged for it.

Yea back on topic.

For me Murray hiring this so called expert on propofol is a good sign. I tells me he most definitely is worried about charges and prosecution. His getting prepared. He better. Cause "the word is out you doing wrong gonna lock you up before to long"-mj...Haaa With your lying eyes.

If his lawyer doesn't pay his bill. I would be interested on knowing who did. I know the bail amount is public knowledge. I wonder if it is public knowledge on who puts up the bail money?
 
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meena76_4MJJ_4Ever said:
You are right. We can not completely rule that out. The fact is known of us was there and really have no clue of really went on in that room.
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Yes, it's just unfortunate that most people cannot admit and say "I don't know". Conviction in both directions is what I'm arguing against.
 
Arguing is really not productive, and to keep this thread vital I think it's best not to engage with it? That is my choice. . . . .

On the topic, about the only things we DO know with certainty is that Michael died. That Murray was his doctor. That Murray made some conflicting statements and we don't know what the truth IS. We do not have an accurate timeline. And so on.

We do not know for certain if Michael "begged" for Propofol. We have not seen autopsy results, except for a brief official statement and some (not all) pharmacology results, so we really don't know his physical condition at the time of death. We do not know if Michael welcomed doing fifty shows, or was unhappy to have to do so many. We don't KNOW, with any certainty. There is a lot we do not know, and he is not here to tell us. Sadly. . .he's not here to tell us. . . . . .
 
meena76_4MJJ_4Ever said:
This is based of off Murray's statement. Murray has been proven to be a liar numerous times. To believe anything that comes out of his mouth is pointless. Everything he has stated (IMO) is to cover his own butte. I personally believe Michael was gone long before the time Murray mentions. Of course I was not there, this is what my gut is telling me and I am going with it. I have no proof to back this up since I have heard no reports either way about his state of lividity.

I also do not believe he begged for it.
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Murray has not spoken, nor given any interviews at all (except for a You Tube statement he made to his patients and well wishers).

How has he been proven a liar numerous times when he has not opened his mouth?
 
Victoria83 said:
On the topic, about the only things we DO know with certainty is that Michael died. That Murray was his doctor. That Murray made some conflicting statements and we don't know what the truth IS. We do not have an accurate timeline. And so on.

We do not know for certain if Michael "begged" for Propofol. We have not seen autopsy results, except for a brief official statement and some (not all) pharmacology results, so we really don't know his physical condition at the time of death. We do not know if Michael welcomed doing fifty shows, or was unhappy to have to do so many. We don't KNOW, with any certainty. There is a lot we do not know, and he is not here to tell us. Sadly. . .he's not here to tell us. . . . . .
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Again, I don't see where he made ANY statements at all??

The statement about the 50 shows might derail the thread.
 
Beachlover said:
Murray has not spoken, nor given any interviews at all (except for a You Tube statement he made to his patients and well wishers).

How has he been proven a liar numerous times when he has not opened his mouth?
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From inconsistencies in his own statements on the various search-warrants? We don't know what happened. We can't prove that any, given, statement is a lie, or is true. We can only know what Murray has told police that's been made available on PDFs in the search warrants. I will say, though, that that kind of discussion is best in the I.U.

In terms of the death investigation, it now looks like the "involuntary manslaughter" charge is in no way official. So we continue to wait. . .
 
Don't know much about this new DA but I like the way he is discrediting these false claims. Theroy of gross negligence huh. I wonder how far they can take that. His statement lives much opened up to the imagination.
 
arXter said:
This thread is a goldmine for overreactions.

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Greetings ... you need a tomato to toss at me :lol:??
 
Beachlover said:
Again, I don't see where he made ANY statements at all??

The statement about the 50 shows might derail the thread.
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His detailed statements are available in the PDFs of the various search-warrants.

I made no definitive statement about the fifty shows either way, and don't intend to discuss them at ALL here. That was simply used as an example of something (just one of many things) we do NOT know. There isn't much we do know with certainty. . . .
 
Victoria83 said:
From inconsistencies in his own statements on the various search-warrants? We don't know what happened. We can't prove that any, given, statement is a lie, or is true. We can only know what Murray has told police that's been made available on PDFs in the search warrants. I will say, though, that that kind of discussion is best in the I.U.

In terms of the death investigation, it now looks like the "involuntary manslaughter" charge is in no way official. So we continue to wait. . .
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Well, since you don't want me in the IU because it is heavy speculation and conspiracy and I don't believe in conspiracy theory in this case I post here when things come up.

Inconsistencies on the search warrants aren't Murrays fault. That would make the police a bunch of inconsistent liars since they are the ones responsible for the search warrants.

Yes, in terms of the investigation NO charge has been filed since the DA still has not been given the case.
 
Beachlover said:
Inconsistencies on the search warrants aren't Murrays fault. That would make the police a bunch of inconsistent liars since they are the ones responsible for the search warrants.
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I would expect the police would take down Murray's statements as accurately as they possibly could, on these official documents? Plus, statements are commonly recorded and would likely be checked for accuracy. In other words, Murray's statements would be on tape. Any inconsistencies I'm sure would be used in a case against him. Time will tell, about that.

Beachlover said:
Yes, in terms of the investigation NO charge has been filed since the DA still has not been given the case.
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That's correct. No charges have been filed yet. It now seems that the original topic of this thread is inaccurate? That the death investigation is NOT complete?
 
meena76_4MJJ_4Ever said:
You are right. We can not completely rule that out. The fact is known of us was there and really have no clue of really went on in that room. But to say it with conviction. This is based of off Murray's statement. Murray has been proven to be a liar numerous times. To believe anything that comes out of his mouth is pointless. Everything he has stated (IMO) is to cover his own butte. I personally believe Michael was gone long before the time Murray mentions. Of course I was not there, this is what my gut is telling me and I am going with it. I have no proof to back this up since I have heard no reports either way about his state of lividity.

I also do not believe he begged for it.

Yea back on topic.

For me Murray hiring this so called expert on propofol is a good sign. I tells me he most definitely is worried about charges and prosecution. His getting prepared. He better. Cause "the word is out you doing wrong gonna lock you up before to long"-mj...Haaa With your lying eyes.

If his lawyer doesn't pay his bill. I would be interested on knowing who did. I know the bail amount is public knowledge. I wonder if it is public knowledge on who puts up the bail money?
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Yes. I agree..Glad you picked up on that as well. In the past week since the leaks murray went and got this lawyer.
 
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