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Murray Trial - 28 September - Day 2 - Discussion Thread

Chernoff knows what he is doing. I am not underestimating him. That's one reason I worry about all this.
 
Gupta's position reminds me of Nancy Grace's stance in 2005 - "We got to get this guy on SOMETHING".

Michael "got away" with child molestation, they want to "get him" on causing his own death.

As for Chernoff's bumbling. For it to be truly effective, at the end of cross we would have a clear idea of the points he scored, the doubts he raised. It is risky to leave his "brilliance" until the defense presents it case.
 
TheChosenOne said:
Gupta's position reminds me of Nancy Grace's stance in 2005 - "We got to get this guy on SOMETHING".

Michael "got away" with child molestation, they want to "get him" on causing his own death.

As for Chernoff's bumbling. For it to be truly effective, at the end of cross we would have a clear idea of the points he scored, the doubts he raised. It is risky to leave his "brilliance" until the defense presents it case.
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I feel that there are people who feel that way. Get Michael with this. It's sad think that but you can't help it with how people treated him in the past.
 
Milka said:
Is there any US TV station with a live stream on the net covering the trial right now? Would like to see whatever they are reporting, don't mind if it's tabloid-ish or more serious. If you know any, please post a link or PM me. Thanks!
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HLN has been showing the trial for the past two days. But that's on television, they seem to be the only station broadcasting the trial in America. If you want a stream online the only place I can suggest is TMZ. They're streaming the live trial over there as well.

EDIT: I'm sorry, that was just in general. I don't know of any place that are streaming at this moment.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
HLN has been showing the trial for the past two days. But that's on television, they seem to be the only station broadcasting the trial in America. If you want a stream online the only place I can suggest is TMZ. They're streaming the live trial over there as well.

EDIT: I'm sorry, that was just in general. I don't know of any place that are streaming at this moment.
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Thank you! I'm not looking for a live stream of the trial, we have that one right here on MJJC, but wondered if there is any TV station doing coverage that is streamed live with all their (sometimes questionable) talking heads, etc. Couldn't find any and don't really know where and how to look.
 
I know that this is somewhat irrelevant to the case.... but hopefully now people can stop talking about MJ not liking himself, wanting to be black or be around black people. Cause clearly most of his staff was black.
 
bluetopez said:
Dr Sanja Gupta is making the rounds saying that sources close to the defense is telling him that they will say that MJ was faking his sleep then when Murrray walk out of the room Mj got up with the IV attched to him and took 8 lorazpam pills and then took propofol himself then Murray found him not breathing!
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So the defense is hoping to dispense with the improbable coincidence that Michael woke up during the two minutes Murray was out of the room and replace it with the theory that Michael woke up without Murray noticing, despite the fact that Murray was right there, and feigned sleep for God knows how long until Murray left the room and he could dose himself to death, such that Murray's failure to pay attention works in his own defense.

Yeah. Okay.

TheChosenOne said:
As for Chernoff's bumbling. *For it to be truly effective, at the end of cross we would have a clear idea of the points he scored, the doubts he raised. *It is risky to leave his "brilliance" until the defense presents it case.
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Rather. I'm not able to see the live feed, but I'm not getting the sense that he's racking up a lot of Lt. Columbo moments here.
 
cinzia said:
I saw an interview maybe last year? with him saying essentially he had not much of an opinion about lawyers outside of Texas; later I read he couldn't find a California lawyer he either liked or could afford to take the lead on the case, additionally he didn't want to risk losing his ability to try the case as an out of state lawyer. This is not a dumb man and we should be careful not to think he is being a fool just because of his acting. Put you off your guard then bam.
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Very interesting, but I am very naive on the process..So why did he need to find a lawyer , surely he himself was and is leading the case?
And why is it bad if he tried the case as an out of state lawyer..I am sure there is an obvious answer but I don't get why passing the exam was essential and how it connects to the different state lawyers

thanks
 
So the trial will be going everyday (?) for 5 weeks? What time does it start? Sorry for the stupid questions but I searched around this site and I don't see any info with regards to my questions. All the other info I've seen though has been wonderful! :)
 
The trial has been starting at 8:45 a.m. PST every day so far. It will probably be going everyday except weekends.
 
Ashtanga said:
I still do not understand WHY Tohme will not testify... would be so revealing.
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It mostly has to do with the fact that Thoma wasn't in Michael's life during his last days and most of his suppose involvement is hearsay. The only thing he could really testify to is the AEG contract and contract dates and the DA already had a witness to go over such details.
 
diana79 said:
It seems like no one wants to talk about him.
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Yes.... :fear:




Ramona122003 said:
It mostly has to do with the fact that Thoma wasn't in Michael's life during his last days and most of his suppose involvement is hearsay. The only thing he could really testify to is the AEG contract and contract dates and the DA already had a witness to go over such details.
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I know. ;) I said this why it would be interesting to hear this man, he is so obscure. :fear:
 
Ashtanga said:
Yes.... :fear:






I know. ;) I said this why it would be interesting to hear this man, he is so obscure. :fear:
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When the AEG lawsuit goes through, he may talk since he was there at the beginning and Frank is no longer here to give his side of the story.

Although, I still don't quiet understand seem so obsess with this man, but whatever. I do find it interesting that unlike most in his class he hasn't said a thing to the media. I guess that could make him dangerous because he knows, unlike most, when to keep his mouth shut.
 
If Klein was giving MJ demerol during his visits/treatments the last last month - and he was in withdrawal - that would explain the vicious sleeplessness and weight loss. I understand that the side effect of Demerol can act as a stimulant. Totally unethical of Klein to even consider giving a former-dependent this substance.

I remember Klein saying that he was giving MJ some very painful injections for MJ to look his best. I'm sure there was tons of pressure to look good for upcoming major press events and the cameras.

Not at all saying that Murray is off the hook - today's trial showed a total incompetence of a so-called cardiologist. So sad that MJ ever trusted this man with his life.
 
LuvUMost said:
If Klein was giving MJ demerol during his visits/treatments the last last month - and he was in withdrawal - that would explain the vicious sleeplessness and weight loss. I understand that the side effect of Demerol can act as a stimulant.
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So can ephedrine, which was actually found in Michael's body. Demerol wasn't.
 
Will the trial happen during weekends too?

So far I've missed the last half of each day, since I have to get to bed in order to wake up at 5.00am to ready myself for work.
 
Misayko said:
But with the things the media says its no surprise that it will hurt his legacy. They already call him a drug addict and say that it will be difficult for the prosecutors to give evidence that Murray is guilty..
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Oh boy, all the work the fans and comunity to waen us NOT to listen to the press you still have doubts? C'mmon
 
CherubimII said:
Remember, both Dr. Conrad Murray and Nurse Cherilyn Lee are liars.

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I agree with you. Cherilyn Lee's comments have always been "fishy" to me. She claims that Michael begged her for propofol, why would he if he hired Murray to administer it? Her story changed a bit about where she was when this convo takes place. She said she was so concerned after MJ asked her for it yet all she could say is "go to the hospital" after receiving the hot on one side cold on the other call. Did she call to follow up to see if MJ was doing better? Also, she quickly went to the media with the propofol story, much like Oxman, before the autopsy results were in. She made sure her version of the events was first and loudest. Based on testimony, I'm not even sure if she's a licensed practicing nurse or an herbalist?
 
RedMaryFlint said:
So can ephedrine, which was actually found in Michael's body. Demerol wasn't.
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Yeah, I remember being puzzled about that... I guess I was thinking about what was happening to MJ on June 19/20. Seems he was having a hard time and I understand he hadn't been to Klein's that week.

Sadly, this trial is putting a very small piece of MJ's life under the microscope - to try to determine what happened and if Conrad is responsible (clearly). Trying to even walk/in MJ's shoes during his life is simply impossible.

I do believe MJ's legacy will survive - he was simply too special!
 
^^Of course. Michael's legacy will not be affected by Muarry's lawyers or talking heads on TV.

There will come a point when the judge will call Chernoff to the bench and reprimand him if he continues to interject kline into the proceedings. Once judges keep sustaining the same objection over and over they begin to give to warnings!!
 
LuvUMost said:
If Klein was giving MJ demerol during his visits/treatments the last last month - and he was in withdrawal - that would explain the vicious sleeplessness and weight loss. I understand that the side effect of Demerol can act as a stimulant. Totally unethical of Klein to even consider giving a former-dependent this substance.
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Klein is not on trial. He was investigated, and wasn't charged with anything. Michael was visiting Klein two, and at most, three times a week. Two or three shots of demerol a week would not cause an addiction (Demerol is physically addictive. A person gets SICK if they don't have it on a regular basis, if addicted). There was no demerol in Michael's system, as per the autopsy report. No demerol was found in the house, but Ephedra WAS. It can cause massive sleeplessness. We know that Murray ordered it from a pharmacy (that's in one of the police reports). Demerol is a NON-issue in the trial, but I guess the defense has to try something?

LuvUMost said:
Not at all saying that Murray is off the hook - today's trial showed a total incompetence of a so-called cardiologist. So sad that MJ ever trusted this man with his life.
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"Off the hook????" The prosecution so far is obliterating him!
 
Watched part of the cross examination of Faheem Muhammad. I think Michael Amir did a way better Job.
Faheem just have too many I can't recall in the cross examination.
The thing is the comparison he can actually remembered quite details of the prosecution's questions but can't remember lots of things during the cross examination. That doesn't look good. I know it's been 2 years and it's hard to remember every details. However, the comparison just to obvious. Make you feel like he is hiding something or he might have a change to make up stories with Michael Amir (I am not saying he was). Michael Amir looked and sound way more sincere. The other thing kept bugging me is the question about the security camera. How come he can't recalled whether there's one or not on the front door? I thought this should be a easy question for a "security chief". Doesn't he supposed to know all these settings? and he can't recall what footage the LAPD asked to copy???? not even whether they copy the whole thing or just specific time? For other people, I would say it's ok to not recall. But for a security chief? That's a little shocking. I just hope that his testimony won't affect too much.
 
RedMaryFlint said:
So can ephedrine, which was actually found in Michael's body. Demerol wasn't.
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And it seemed as if Michael's assistant was saying that even when Michael may have been speaking slightly sorry only a few times after visits with Klein, that it was nowhere near what Michael sounded like on the tape. While the media wants to paint this drug addict picture (even some stretching or mis-stating what was said), I am still going to go with what others in close contact keep saying and that is they saw no signs of a drug addict.
 
Alayasha said:
I agree with you. Cherilyn Lee's comments have always been "fishy" to me. She claims that Michael begged her for propofol, why would he if he hired Murray to administer it? Her story changed a bit about where she was when this convo takes place. She said she was so concerned after MJ asked her for it yet all she could say is "go to the hospital" after receiving the hot on one side cold on the other call. Did she call to follow up to see if MJ was doing better? Also, she quickly went to the media with the propofol story, much like Oxman, before the autopsy results were in. She made sure her version of the events was first and loudest. Based on testimony, I'm not even sure if she's a licensed practicing nurse or an herbalist?
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It's funny I began to think about her story from yesterday. Do we know if she will be called as a witness at some point?
 
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