Murray Trial - 6 October - Day 8 - Discussion

Justthefacts

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If it is in his blood it matters. Anything in his organs means it was on it's way out they don't care about what he gave them the day before or two days before
 

wendy2004

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I'm confused. Medical peeps, please clarify. Is it normal to find flumazenil in a y-connector?? I thought you'd only put that in a syringe for a shot to reverse the benzos.
 

twinklEE

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Yeah but she's in Paris right now. Randy and Rebbie are in court so they are hearing the details of the toxicology report today.
so then she'll be told whatever Randy wants her to believe, so I presume her little theatre tour has started again?..
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Anyways, they should've tested for lorazepam in other organs as well. SMDH
 

wendy2004

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nvm...I think I figured it out. argh! This is why I didn't go into medicine. doh!
 

adrianmonk

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xthunderx2

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after this guy is done with the tox report they are probably gonna have another expert testify as to what it all means
 

lemon662

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So 3 drugs found in both y-connector and syringe: Propofol, Lidocaine AND Flumazenil. I can understanding Murray giving Propofol and Lidocaine together (as Propofol can be very irritating to the vein/cause pain at the site)....but to ALSo be giving Flumazenil in the same syringe with these 2? What a crazy man. You can't just mix injectable drugs like that....or perhaps he was just a lazy ba*stard and instead of using a brand new syringe and needle to inject the Flumazenil, he used the same one he'd previously used for the Prop/Lido (which is a big no-no).
 

sophie

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Soundmind;3505080 said:
He told every monkey and his mama he gave him lorazepam , later he said I gave him lorazepam on two nigts previously. You found lorazepam in high concentraion and list it as a contributor to death still did not bother to test for it in any of the organs beside the blood!!!

i also dont understand why they didnt take more tests. rogers already said during prelim the dashes mean it was not tested:


from prelim, Jan 11 2011: Witness Christopher Rogers. Cross-examination by Flanagan.

Mr. Flanagan: Now, I notice when it comes to hospital blood, that when it comes to nordiazepam, lorazepam, midazolam, ephedrine, there is just a dash there. Does it mean those substances weren't tested for in the hospital blood?

Mr. Walgren: Objection. This is beyond his area of expertise and scope.

The Court: I’ll overrule the objection. Based upon your experience, can you offer an answer or not?

The Witness: I can answer the question, yes. This would indicate that the bottom four substances were not tested in the hospital blood.


it seems they also have no hydrolyzed urine values? :(
 

xthunderx2

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So 3 drugs found in both y-connector and syringe: Propofol, Lidocaine AND Flumazenil. I can understanding Murray giving Propofol and Lidocaine together (as Propofol can be very irritating to the vein/cause pain at the site)....but to ALSo be giving Flumazenil in the same syringe with these 2? What a crazy man. You can't just mix injectable drugs like that....or perhaps he was just a lazy ba*stard and instead of using a brand new syringe and needle to inject the Flumazenil, he used the same one he'd previously used for the Prop/Lido (which is a big no-no).


thats what I was thinking too..
 
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elusive moonwalker

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place your bets for flannagan asking how long it takes for demoral to clear the system?
 

lemon662

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[/B]

thats what I was thinking too..

When I worked in the hospital we would have a chart we'd refer to, that indicated the "Y-site compatibility" of various injectable drugs that we'd refer to. I just looked up Propofol to see if it's considered 'compatible' if it comes into contact in the Y-site with Flumazenil and the info I've found doesn't indicate that it IS or IS NOT compatible, so that would IMO mean "unknown" and that would mean one should not be taking a chance that these 2 injectable meds come into contact with each other (line should be flushed prior to injecting):

http://www.drugguide.com/ddo/ub/view/Davis-Drug-Guide/51640/all/propofol

IMO it just goes to show that Murray was completely careless and consistently incompetent, who knows what other 'shortcuts' he took that we don't even know about. For example, once a vial of Propofol is opened, it must be discarded after 6 hours but I bet you dollars to donuts that he didn't follow this in an attempt to cut costs.
 
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elusive moonwalker

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are they saying that urine was days old?? cause no ephedrine in the heart blood
 

adrianmonk

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When I worked in the hospital we would have a chart we'd refer to, that indicated the "Y-site compatibility" of various injectable drugs that we'd refer to. I just looked up Propofol to see if it's considered 'compatible' if it comes into contact in the Y-site with Flumazenil and the info I've found doesn't indicate that it IS or IS NOT compatible, so that would IMO mean "unknown" and that would mean one should not be taking a chance that these 2 injectable meds come into contact with each other (line should be flushed prior to injecting):

http://www.drugguide.com/ddo/ub/view/Davis-Drug-Guide/51640/all/propofol

IMO it just goes to show that Murray was completely careless and consistently incompetent, who knows what other 'shortcuts' he took that we don't even know about. For example, once a vial of Propofol is opened, it must be discarded after 6 hours but I bet you dollars to donuts that he didn't follow this in an attempt to cut costs.

i'm *guessing* he gave it as a rescue effort (or defense will claim so), in an emergent situation i doubt he would hook up a new y-connector, time lost (ironic, i know!) finding a new connector would be worse than injecting an incompatible drug
 

adrianmonk

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EPHEDRINE is used to treat hypotension associated with anaesthesia.

in my pharmacology course we did not learn that use; we were taught it is not often used clinically. for that purpose, i would assume a more specific agent would be used (although i am not a practicing physician/anesthesiologist so i could be wrong)
 
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