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Murray Trial - 7 October - Day 9 - Discussion

I am just getting here so I haven't read the thread so I apologize if I repeat a discussion.

My question is do you think Michael had doubts about CM when he suggested they take 2 doctors because Dr Adams was very familiar with propofol and it was new to Murray? Sounds like Adams would have gone but for Murray.

It made me sick when Murray said he didn't know of any other doctors who were treating MJ but later on in the interview names Klein, Metzger, Adams...

How can anybody on that jury believe his excuse for not calling 911?! I feel sure Michael Amir would have done as he was told and not demanded a reason why. If he could take the time to run to the kitchen to scream at Kai to get Prince but not call 911! My head is spinning just thinking about it!

And these fools on the TV who say MJ was better off with cardiologist Murray than EMT's with the proper equipment make me sick!
 
And these fools on the TV who say MJ was better off with cardiologist Murray than EMT's with the proper equipment make me sick!
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Which fools were saying that?
 
bluetopez said:
It was some defense attorney with his pitful thoughts don't know his name and it don't matter. Just one of the guest these shows bring in to way in! BLAH!
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Oh my some lawyers so dumb seriously! they think are doctors or something like that .
 
Finished reading.

Murray was a hero by all means according to his interview lol . MJ killed himself he tried to help him. Alvarez, Amir dragged their feet they forced him to leave MJ and call for help. 911 operator was responsible for MJ being left on the bed he wanted Alvaez to finish the call with her ASAP and help him move him. The paramedics were slow and wanted to call mj dead at the scene, UCLA doctors did not know what to do and he was instructing them all the time if it was not for him everyone would have given up much earlier. He told ucla workers to be careful while talking to Katherine because she suffered from "heart illness" he was the one who asked for Amir ,Frank and social worker to tell the kids and held a meeting to try and sort everything out. Paris told him she knew he did his best repeatedly. He loved Mj, he cared about MJ, he tried to help MJ and here he was hearing from the detectives for the first time that he was receiving a treatment for his eyes WOW, OMG MJ had packets of cigarettes in his room!!!!! :eek:hno:" smilieid="54" class="inlineimg" />" smilieid="54" class="inlineimg" />OMG mj had marijuana OMG “after everything I've done to him, I gave him love, I helped him and look now I'm hearing all that now piece by piece and to think he was doing these stuff “!!!!!!!!!! :upside_down:the detective had to remind him it was rotten and they had no evidence MJ knew or used it, but Murray hurried to say " that's his room, no one was allowed in it, it's his" the detective asked him about the cigarettes he said he never knew MJ was a smoker but then " he used to spend long time spraying odor really strong odor all over his body".

The guy was DESPERATE to tranish MJ anyway possible in that interview. Let the jury here that, let them , very incriminating he basically accused everyone of being negligent except himself .


Murray is a sociopath, this guy is a CRIMINAL.
 
ok to clarify a comment I made about lorazepam and midazolam. He told the detectives he started to use it three days prior to death later the detectives asked him to clarify whether that was the first time it was used , prior to the 23rd of June did he use it and he said yes it was used before but in lesser doses.
 
and yeah , MJ started to use the terms "milk" and "antiburn" after Murray started to give it to him . He said that himself!!! Chernoff's more annoying than Murray if that even possible, It was so scripted , so creepy, Murray blaming everyone but himself, Chernoff trying to blame the victim , this interview was a disaster to the defense.
 
Murray is a sociopath.. Mike needed folks watching over him and protecting him from leeches like Murray. They failed him.. Whoever allowed this narcissist to be 'treating' MJ and his family is insane and I hope they feel really guilty about it
 
Soundmind said:
and yeah , MJ started to use the terms "milk" and "antiburn" after Murray started to give it to him . He said that himself!!! Chernoff's more annoying than Murray if that even possible, It was so scripted , so creepy, Murray blaming everyone but himself, Chernoff trying to blame the victim , this interview was a disaster to the defense.
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I hope the jury can see this, and I hope they notice all the lies Murray told in that interview
 
I just saw some pictures of MJ's bedroom being posted. Did they show any other pictures of MJ's bedroom? Did it have a lot of notes / post-its as Latoya claimed in her book?
 
ivy said:
I just saw some pictures of MJ's bedroom being posted. Did they show any other pictures of MJ's bedroom? Did it have a lot of notes / post-its as Latoya claimed in her book?
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there are some pics of the BR in the video thread EDIT not in there but uploaded here somewhere

I saw 2 notes on bathroom door but larger
in trial they showed one pic with 2 notes on mirror

In all views of Bedroom room i dont see any posts it notes
im going to try to zoom in on notes but pics are pretty blurry

untitled11.jpg
 
jaydom7 said:
Murray is a sociopath.. Mike needed folks watching over him and protecting him from leeches like Murray. They failed him.. Whoever allowed this narcissist to be 'treating' MJ and his family is insane and I hope they feel really guilty about it
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That's kind of unfair since Murray does have a good relationship with his patients. Saying someone should feel guilty for someone's else actions is over the top and is guilt by associating. The blame lies squarely on Murray and fans shouldn't be throwing stones just because you feel that everyone within spitting distance of Michael is guilty.

Also, Michael was a grown man and was capable of taking care of himself. This isn't some little kid we're talking about.
 
Ramona122003 said:
That's kind of unfair since Murray does have a good relationship with his patients. Saying someone should feel guilty for someone's else actions is over the top and is guilt by associating. The blame lies squarely on Murray and fans shouldn't be throwing stones just because you feel that everyone within spitting distance of Michael is guilty.

Also, Michael was a grown man and was capable of taking care of himself. This isn't some little kid we're talking about.
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This is a Michael Jackson board. Please do not discount the LOVE that most of us feel for him! Wow, that was bad!

A doctor is a professional! There is an oath that doctors take, to DO NO HARM. Murray had a choice. To do harm, or to be professional. I think that now this is totally clear. His "personality" with other patients does not matter, a bit.

That tape with police was totally damning. Just the lies, alone, were damning. Whatever that was that Michael "may have" wanted," does not mean a thing, in the context of gross negligence. We trust professionals, whether they are lawyers, or EMTs, or doctors, or whatever. Michael put his trust in the WRONG person, and he died because of it.
 
Autumn II said:
This is a Michael Jackson board. Please do not discount the LOVE that most of us feel for him! Wow, that was bad!

A doctor is a professional! There is an oath that doctors take, to DO NO HARM. Murray had a choice. To do harm, or to be professional. I think that now this is totally clear. His "personality" with other patients does not matter, a bit.

That tape with police was totally damning. Just the lies, alone, were damning. Whatever that was that Michael "may have" wanted," does not mean a thing, in the context of gross negligence. We trust professionals, whether they are lawyers, or EMTs, or doctors, or whatever. Michael put his trust in the WRONG person, and he died because of it.
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How did I discounted Michael's love? All I said that you can't blame the people who introduce Michael to Murray or the people who allowed Michael to see him. Given that Michael trusted Murray with his life and allow him to put him in a position of complete helplessness, Michael obviously trusted him. Michael, like his other patients, didn't or would never would had expected Murray to betray them. Misplace trust indeed.

And like I said, Michael wasn't a kid and I simply don't care for fans he seem to believe that Michael needed a guardian all the time to take care of him. This isn't discounted love, but simply stated a fact.
 
jaydom7 said:
Murray is a sociopath.. Mike needed folks watching over him and protecting him from leeches like Murray. They failed him.. Whoever allowed this narcissist to be 'treating' MJ and his family is insane and I hope they feel really guilty about it
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Well MJ was a grown man, he apparently requested the services of Murray, he's the one who asked him to go on tour with him as his personal physician, he is someone that MJ previously felt was trustworthy enough to care for him and his children so I don't think it's at all fair to blame "anyone" for the referral that someone else made because to me that is insulting to MJ who I feel was a very intelligent person. I don't think it's fair to blame anyone else for what Murray did to MJ, it's all on Murray.
 
Ramona122003 said:
How did I discounted Michael's love? All I said that you can't blame the people who introduce Michael to Murray or the people who allowed Michael to see him. Given that Michael trusted Murray with his life and allow him to put him in a position of complete helplessness, Michael obviously trusted him. Michael, like his other patients, didn't or would never would had expected Murray to betray them. Misplace trust indeed.

And like I said, Michael wasn't a kid and I simply don't care for fans he seem to believe that Michael needed a guardian all the time to take care of him. This isn't discounted love, but simply stated a fact.
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The "people who introduced Michael to Murray" are NOT to be blamed, and I don't think anyone SAID that? MURRAY is on trial here, and no one else, and certainly not Michael. Saying "Michael was not a kid" puts the blame on HIM, and he is NOT to blame. Murray is a professional. A so-called doctor. The mere implication that Michael is to be blamed, is simply not tolerable, to those who loved Michael.

It is MURRAY on trial, and not Michael. Regardless of the outcome of the trial, karma is a bitch, and we all make our futures, through our actions and our words? If nothing else, Murray proved himself today to be a liar, and I, for one, do trust the jury to know that.
 
Autumn II said:
The "people who introduced Michael to Murray" are NOT to be blamed, and I don't think anyone SAID that? MURRAY is on trial here, and no one else, and certainly not Michael. Saying "Michael was not a kid" puts the blame on HIM, and he is NOT to blame. Murray is a professional. A so-called doctor. The mere implication that Michael is to be blamed, is simply not tolerable, to those who loved Michael.

It is MURRAY on trial, and not Michael. Regardless of the outcome of the trial, karma is a bitch, and we all make our futures, through our actions and our words? If nothing else, Murray proved himself today to be a liar, and I, for one, do trust the jury to know that.
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No, saying that Michael wasn't a kid is saying he wasn't a kid. How does saying he was a child put the blame on him? I pretty much said the exact same thing as lemon662 to the same poster except in different words and you thanked him/her. I think you're being overly sensitive.

On a side note, like Michael, I don't believe in karma and I see it as something that people cling to make themselves feel better about the injustices of life. Like hell.
 
The tape by Murray today was devastating, to Murray, and to no one else. The trial TURNED today, in the favor of Michael.

So sorry, but "devil's advocacy" should not be welcome here. The devil should not HAVE an "advocate." This is a board for those who loved Michael. That is really the bottom-line, now?

Karma? Doesn't matter a bit who believes in it, or does not. We all make our choices in life, and whether or not that affects us? Whatever. But GOOD is good. And what we do or say, DOES matter. IMHO.

What we found out today in the trial? That Murray is not CAPABLE of telling the truth.
 
Autumn II said:
The tape by Murray today was devastating, to Murray, and to no one else. The trial TURNED today, in the favor of Michael.

So sorry, but "devil's advocacy" should not be welcome here. The devil should not HAVE an "advocate." This is a board for those who loved Michael. That is really the bottom-line, now?

Karma? Doesn't matter a bit who believes in it, or does not. We all make our choices in life, and whether or not that affects us? Whatever. But GOOD is good. And what we do or say, DOES matter. IMHO.

What we found out today in the trial? That Murray is not CAPABLE of telling the truth.
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Ah Vic,

Thank you so much for reminding me why I put you on ignore. I know you're a smart and I know you know exactly what I've posted even after I cleared it up in several posts to you. If you want to believe I'm playing "devil's advocacy", whatever. As long as one reminds respectful, all point of views are welcomed. I have no problem people disagreeing with me, but I do have a problem with those who purposely twist my post into meaning something that isn't. I stand by what I said, Michael wasn't a child and he chose Murray on his own free will. If you want to take that as me blaming Michael for his death, fine.

On the note of karma, if you're going to say that bad people have bad things happen to them and good people have good things happen to them, then we must conclude that Michael must had been a bad person given everything that he went through and the way he died at the hands of someone he trusted. If karma truly existed, bad thing wouldn't happen to begin with and even if Murray goes to jail or even dies, Michael is still dead and his children have to go the rest of their lives without their daddy because of one person's careless act. So sorry, I'm with Michael when it come to karma.
 
NO. We will NOT "fight." We are united in our love for Michael, or we should be? What we heard in court today was devastating for the defense. The LIES from Murray, were just incredible. Murray was a professional, and his duty, as a professional, was to take CARE of his only patient. He did not. I can't see any way this should divide us, but UNITE us.
 
Is there a summary of what happened today? Being in Australia I'm in a really far away timezone and I was unable to watch the trial footage today.
 
^Summary will be up shortly I suppose, in the court summaries thread. I rely on that thread heavily to find out the full coverage of each day, as I'm unable to watch most of the trial due to time zone difference :(
 
Soundmind said:
No 10 minutes mentioned . That was scripted , he did not give propofol at 10:40 am, he did not leave, those were lies created carefully around the timings of the phone calls .. :upside_down:he said because he left for a very short time he estimated that what happened to MJ must have taken place very recently thus he called it "witnessed state" he "witnessed" what happened !! that damned 911 operator, Murray wanted Alvarez to come and help him move MJ to the floor but the 911 operator was asking and asking so he told him " just get here " and he asked Alvarez to come help him move MJ to the floor "because that WHAT I WANTED" !!!Those damned doctors at UCLA they made the process SLOW, the doctor wanted to call MJ dead at the house , "the doctor did not want to spend too much longer!! on the phone trying to give medication, I figure that I wanted to give him the best effort" !!!! what the hell ? lol
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i dont understand how u say murray didnt mention the watchinh him for x amount of mins. he said he started mixing the dip around 10.40 and gave it around 10.50. he gave 25mg which would last no longer than 10 mins. he watches him for abit then goes to the toliet.giving 25mg meand he watched him for say 5mins then left the room which takes u upto or just past 11am
 
That's kind of unfair since Murray does have a good relationship with his patients.
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Are u kidding me!? yeh right so much so that he didnt watch his patient (mj) while being under the influnce of propofol and another patient felt abandoned by murray!
 
I hate that some of you keep saying that his bedroom and bathroom were a mess.If we are talking like this here I am really worried about what media will say.:nooo:

I very much doubt that all of us are keeping our houses very clean and neat all the time.
 
elusive moonwalker;3506659 said:
i dont understand how u say murray didnt mention the watchinh him for x amount of mins. he said he started mixing the dip around 10.40 and gave it around 10.50. he gave 25mg which would last no longer than 10 mins. he watches him for abit then goes to the toliet.giving 25mg meand he watched him for say 5mins then left the room which takes u upto or just past 11am
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Detective Martinez : OKAY . SORRY . DIDN’T MEAN TO INTERRUPT . SO HE FELL ASLEEP QUICKLY, BUT HE WASN’T SNORING. SO HE’S NOT IN A DEEP SLEEP.
DR.MURRAY: I WAS WORRIED ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE WHEN HE IS NOT DEEP, THEN HE COULD JUST QUICKLY WAKE UP. BUT I WAS – I’M MONITORING HIM. STAYED THERE AND WATCHED. I MONITORED , SAW HIS OXYGEN SATURATION. IT WAS IN THE HIGH 90’S, 90 PERCENT.
HEART RATE WAS ROUGHLY IN THE 70’S. EVERYTHING LOOKED STABLE.
I MONITORED HIM. I SAT THERE AND WATCH HIM FOR LONG ENOUGH PERIOD THAT I FELT COMFORTABLE. THEN I NEEDED TO GO THE THE BATHROOM. SO I GOT UP , WENT T THE BATHROOM TO RELEASE MYSELF OF URINE AND ALSO CONSIDER GETTING RID OF SOME OF HIS URINATION THAT HE HAD PUT IN THE JUGS OVERNIGHT.
THEN I CAME BACK TO HIS BEDSIDE AND WAS STUNNED IN THE SENSE HE WAS NOT BREATHING BECAUSE I ALWAYS WANT TO LOOK AT HIS CHEST AND LOOK AT HIS DIAPHRAGMATIC MOTION AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS. CHECKED—I LOOKED AT THE PULSE OXIMETER RIGHT AWAY, AND HIS HEART RATE WAS LIKE 122 BEATS
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does "long enough period" equal ten minutes or a bit?
 
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