Murray Trial - 7 October - Day 9 - Discussion

[Popescu]

Our medical experts could confirm, but I think there is a big difference between "a drip" and an "injection or bolus?" With a continuous drip, amounts are carefully calibrated to drip at a regular and chosen speed/amount. What Murray called "a drip" was actually a bolus, infused slowly, and by hand? With NO calibration, other than the amount in the syringe?

Oh, but he did use a drip. Not in the least calibrated, more like a do-it-yourself drip. He spiked the propofol bottle, inserted a syringe to keep it flowing by venting the solution. But the syringe was leaking on the floor. So he inserted the bottle inside a saline bag, along with the syringe and created his own kind of drip. If the limb with the catheter was moved or if the bag is lower than the bottle, the flow would be faster, since the only calibration this drip had was gravity.
Unbelievable.

This site provides a detailed explanation: http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-conrad-murrays-death-drip-explained.html

 

[Naturelle]

I hate that some of you keep saying that his bedroom and bathroom were a mess.If we are talking like this here I am really worried about what media will say.:nooo:

I very much doubt that all of us are keeping our houses very clean and neat all the time.

I thought the cleaners or house keepers cleaned his rooms. He didn't trust anyone upstairs. The biggest mistake was to put his LIFE IN MURRY's HANDS! Damned the dirty rooms. They can be cleaned eventually but you can never replace Michael's life.

 

[Autumn II]

I am hoping the pharmacologist/anesthesiologist who is scheduled to testify will focus on the effects of someone having sedatives and propofol daily and how much damage it was causing. When Mike was talking of chills and folks were seeing dramatic weight loss, someone should've taken him to the hospital. Murray was slowly killing MJ. He had to have known that giving MJ all of that crap daily could not have been good for him. He didn't care. He was telling everyone that MJ was fine and healthy. That man makes me sick. He deserves much more than 4 years in prison

:clapping::clapping:

 

[TheChosenOne]

I am hoping the pharmacologist/anesthesiologist who is scheduled to testify will focus on the effects of someone having sedatives and propofol daily and how much damage it was causing. When Mike was talking of chills and folks were seeing dramatic weight loss, someone should've taken him to the hospital. Murray was slowly killing MJ. He had to have known that giving MJ all of that crap daily could not have been good for him. He didn't care. He was telling everyone that MJ was fine and healthy. That man makes me sick. He deserves much more than 4 years in prison

I wholeheartedly agree that Murray is completely at fault here. But I really feel we need to stop talking about Michael as though he was some defenseless child who someone else needed to save. Ramona spoke about this and I support her. We demean him when we speak about him as someone so helpless and uncared for by the people around him.

From the testimony I have seen, even two years later those who worked for Michael still keenly feel his loss. People did care. Murray did not. Michael trusted Murray to have his best interests at heart. That trust was totally misplaced. That is the crux of the matter.

 

[claudiadoina]

He only wanted to sleep.He desperately wanted to sleep.:sad2:

 

[beatbox]

Oh, but he did use a drip. Not in the least calibrated, more like a do-it-yourself drip. He spiked the propofol bottle, inserted a syringe to keep it flowing by venting the solution. But the syringe was leaking on the floor. So he inserted the bottle inside a saline bag, along with the syringe and created his own kind of drip. If the limb with the catheter was moved or if the bag is lower than the bottle, the flow would be faster, since the only calibration this drip had was gravity.
Unbelievable.

This site provides a detailed explanation: http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-conrad-murrays-death-drip-explained.html

Thanks for your comments and link to the article Popescu.

 

[suzynyc]

Good observation! Apparently anesthesia does have a significant effect on the immune system. See below (and there are other studies that confirm, as well). It was MURRAY who was affecting Michael's health -- and not protecting it, as he should. I wonder if Murray was even AWARE of these studies about the effects of anesthesia on the immune system? Probably NOT!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Effect of anesthesia on the immune system: suppression of the immunogenic capacity of macrophages and of lymphocyte transformation.

Dagan O, Segal S, Tzehoval E.
Source

Department of Pediatrics A, Kaplan Hospital, Rehovot, Israel.
Abstract

Experiments were carried out aimed at investigating the effects of anesthesia without surgery on certain functional components of the immune system. We observed that the immunogenic antigen-presenting capacity of mouse peritoneal macrophages was significantly reduced one week post-anesthesia, with either injected or inhaled anesthetic drugs. On the other hand, an augmentation of the phagocytic activities of these macrophages was manifested. Hence, the impaired immunogenic potency could not be attributed to a reduced antigen uptake. Lymphocyte transformations, i.e., response to PHA and Con A were suppressed, whereas the response to LPS was augmented.

PMID:
2583752
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

From my own experience with having anesthesia...something "interesting" happened to me in the days following my laparoscopic gall bladder removal surgery this past July. Let's see, how can I put this delicately...something had not arrived that was scheduled to arrive at a certain time of the month. Something biological that happens to females regularly, lol. I was really scared as I had never been so late. I began to worry something had gone wrong with the surgery so I did a Google search to see if anyone else had experienced this problem who had just had surgery and to my relief I wasn't the only one! These people said that the trauma from surgery and/or the use of so much anesthesia (I don't know if Propofol was used on me) can have a huge effect on the body and that it takes time to recover. My doctor confirmed this to me when I saw him later on. Gee, I wish he had warned me about this. But anyway, if anesthesia can have that much effect on a body with just one surgery, imagine getting that stuff on a regular basis as Michael had. It had to be killing him slowly. How sad.

I think these concerts should have been canceled by everyone involved. Michael should have been functioning at 100% and no less. His health was more important than all the concerts and money and fame in the world. But darn, Michael did not want to disappoint his fans, it's all so sad.

 

[Ramona122003]

From my own experience with having anesthesia...something "interesting" happened to me in the days following my laparoscopic gall bladder removal surgery this past July. Let's see, how can I put this delicately...something had not arrived that was scheduled to arrive at a certain time of the month. Something biological that happens to females regularly, lol. I was really scared as I had never been so late. I began to worry something had gone wrong with the surgery so I did a Google search to see if anyone else had experienced this problem who had just had surgery and to my relief I wasn't the only one! These people said that the trauma from surgery and/or the use of so much anesthesia (I don't know if Propofol was used on me) can have a huge effect on the body and that it takes time to recover. My doctor confirmed this to me when I saw him later on. Gee, I wish he had warned me about this. But anyway, if anesthesia can have that much effect on a body with just one surgery, imagine getting that stuff on a regular basis as Michael had. It had to be killing him slowly. How sad.

I think these concerts should have been canceled by everyone involved. Michael should have been functioning at 100% and no less. His health was more important than all the concerts and money and fame in the world. But darn, Michael did not want to disappoint his fans, it's all so sad.

The experience cannot be completely compare because we're talking about the added stress and trauma of surgery on top of anesthesia and other drugs. There are also stories of people who took anesthesia and were fine, besides the pain from having surgery. If Michael really felt like crap all the time, I doubt he would had continued with what he was doing and I doubt Murray could just convince him to continue like nothing was happening. Lets give him some credit here.

We also have to keep in mind that there were other drugs given to Michael besides the anesthesia. He was given not one, not two, but three highly additive sleeping medications and could have very well been going through withdrawals on June 19 or severing from the side-effects of those drugs. Which would also give you chills, pain, and make you shake as well. We may never know either way. If he was really getting sick from the anesthesia alone, he would had been sick since at least May. Unless you believe TINI, no one has said Michael was sick for that long, not even his family save for maybe Toya.

However, like I said, if his immune system was damaged, I think the autopsy would had noted it. Because Murray's team could go back and say that Michael's was ill and didn't say anything to Murray about it that night and that what killed him, not the drug. They tried it with the TII footage and could find crap.

 

[Ashtanga]

You really believe MJ survived for two month being hooked for 10 hours daily to propofol drip ?

:nono:


I really do not believe....

God, Michael was an asshole going to Murray's story.

:blink:


:doh:

 

[qbee]

Originally Posted by Ramona122003
God, Michael was an ass hole

Going to Murrays's story

:blink:


:doh:

She is saying according to Murrays's story HE made Michael out to be an asshole.
with his story

 

[cinzia]

One problem I have with listening to murray's interview is I keep saying, you're lying, you're lying again and again and again. I so agree that it all sounds scripted, rehearsed and performed. It is as if he is trying to impress the interviewers with how caring, how competent and knowledgeable he was/is. I wonder how he can have such total recall about conversations he had months ago and yet not be able to tell the ER docs what he gave Michael and when. I'm sure there is some truth in there somewhere, there must be. But as for me, I just get nauseated listening to him.
And I heard on CNN that Dr. Adams is probably going to file a civil suit against CM...guess he didn't like what he heard on that interview. As his lawyer put it "Dr. Adams has put 6000 people to sleep and they all woke up...'

 

[Ramona122003]

One problem I have with listening to murray's interview is I keep saying, you're lying, you're lying again and again and again. I so agree that it all sounds scripted, rehearsed and performed. It is as if he is trying to impress the interviewers with how caring, how competent and knowledgeable he was/is. I wonder how he can have such total recall about conversations he had months ago and yet not be able to tell the ER docs what he gave Michael and when. I'm sure there is some truth in there somewhere, there must be. But as for me, I just get nauseated listening to him.
And I heard on CNN that Dr. Adams is probably going to file a civil suit against CM...guess he didn't like what he heard on that interview. As his lawyer put it "Dr. Adams has put 6000 people to sleep and they all woke up...'

I personally wonder if Murray ever told his lawyers about his phone calls. I really can't imagine any lawyer with half a brain not realizing that Murray left a big paper trial behind. I also can't see how they thought they could get away making everyone look stupid except Murray who somehow get the entire ER staff to listen to him.

The only conclusion I can make is that they honestly didn't think he would be charge with anything or he would just get a slap on the hand for fussing up to given Michael propfol(sp) since that isn't illegal. Maybe Murray also honestly thought or hope that something else did kill Michael besides the drugs. You saw how Murray's lawyers were talking about Michael's ill health until the autopsy leaked and they were forced to shut up.

Really, for something that was so 'plan', this interview was really poorly and stupidly done.

 

[jaydom7]

I personally wonder if Murray ever told his lawyers about his phone calls. I really can't imagine any lawyer with half a brain not realizing that Murray left a big paper trial behind. I also can't see how they thought they could get away making everyone look stupid except Murray who somehow get the entire ER staff to listen to him.

The only conclusion I can make is that they honestly didn't think he would be charge with anything or he would just get a slap on the hand for fussing up to given Michael propfol(sp) since that isn't illegal. Maybe Murray also honestly thought or hope that something else did kill Michael besides the drugs. You saw how Murray's lawyers were talking about Michael's ill health until the autopsy leaked and they were forced to shut up.

Really, for something that was so 'plan', this interview was really poorly and stupidly done.

I totally agree.. I don't think Murray told them of the calls at all. That is why Chernoff allowed him to talk about the 2 minute pee break. Chernoff had no idea in the beginning that Murray was chatting and texting his girlfriends during the crucial time period

 

[Popescu]

However, like I said, if his immune system was damaged, I think the autopsy would had noted it. Because Murray's team could go back and say that Michael's was ill and didn't say anything to Murray about it that night and that what killed him, not the drug. They tried it with the TII footage and could find crap.

An immunogram shows how the immune system is or isn't working. To my knowledge, this cannot performed in an autopsy, since it's a count of some particular substances like IgA and IgB. It was definitely not performed in this case.
Michael did not have a great immune system throught his life, he had autoimmune diseases, bouts of pneumonia and what not. Propofol leaves the body almost instantly once the administering stopped, so the patient usually feels fine on the outside and can function normally. But there must be some effects associated with it being administered for a long period of time.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

from mjjuk.com

I don't know how to post the video, you can watch it on mjeol

http://site2.mjeol.com/video/mjeol-libo-ag...o-10072011.html

Libo Agwara Attorney for Dr. Adams: Murray is Lying; Killed Michael Jackson UPDATE

Libo Agwara
date: Oct 7 2011
Attorney for Dr. David Adams
Dr. Adams is an Anesthesiologist

+says Dr. Adams has only met Murray once
+says Murray is lying
+says his client has only given Michael Jackson propofol 4 times in 2008 in a medical setting when Michael had
+says murray told Dr. Adams he could get somebody to join the tour for less money than his client was asking
+says his client turned down murray's offer to join murray on the London tour
+says Murray was pressuring local doctors to give MJ propofol as far back as 2007 (admin note: woah!)
+says murray overruled Michael jackson and hired himself (murray)
+says murray didn't want anybody else close to MJ
+says murray had total control over MJ
+says murray killed MJ himself
+says will be looking to file a lawsuit against Conrad Murray
+says Adams will sue Murray
+says Adams is very angry
+says Adams does not administer propofol to anyone outside of a medical setting

+says "My client doesn't run around giving people propofol in their homes. He does them in medical settings and for appropriate procedures."

+says "Just so you know, Jane, we have information that as far back as 2007, Dr. Murray was pressuring some local doctors to actually give Michael Jackson propofol. So first of all, he hasn't even come clean regarding when he started pushing propofol on Michael Jackson"

+says "What happened to Michael Jackson was as a result of Dr. Murray's greed. Not only did [Murray] not hire another specialist, he decided to hire himself. And he didn't know what he was doing. Let me tell you something, if Michael Jackson had hired who he wanted to hire, he would still be alive today. Dr. Murray overruled Michael Jackson and hired himself because if my client (Dr. Adams) had been hired, Dr. Murray would not have been getting $150,000 a month. Because there would be no need for [Murray]."

+says, "Murray did not want anybody else close to Michael Jackson. He had absolute control over that man."

+says, "[Murray] killed that man by himself."

+says, "My client has put over 6,000 people to sleep. They all woke up. That's what Dr. Murray needs to remember."

 

[Autumn II]

The damage to the immune system caused by anesthesia is well documented in the literature.

Also, I find it strange that Lupus was not mentioned as a chronic condition, with flare-ups. The Autopsy Report indicated that Michael had scarring of the lungs, and inflammation. Michael, himself, confirmed Lupus, as did his family. He regularly gave to the Lupus Foundation, and attended many of their charity events.

And Murray kept NO medical records on Michael, in those last months of his life! That, alone, would seem to indicate gross-negligence.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

From my understandibg lupus is based off numerous ailments. u cant look and say yeah theyve got lupus. its a collection of symptoms. thats what my mum was told when been Tested For those in the uk is it better to record the actual sky news channel or is there less interruptions on the red button do they actually show it on the red button when its on the actual news channel.

 

[Popescu]

from mjjuk.com


Dr. Adams is an Anesthesiologist


+says his client turned down murray's offer to join murray on the London tour
+says Murray was pressuring local doctors to give MJ propofol as far back as 2007 (admin note: woah!)
+says murray overruled Michael jackson and hired himself (murray)
+says murray didn't want anybody else close to MJ
+says murray had total control over MJ
+says murray killed MJ himself
+says will be looking to file a lawsuit against Conrad Murray

We are not supposed to use the f-word here, right?
So maybe Murray wasn't lying about being appointed the head of the children hospital?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Sorry i dont get u

 

[classic]

from mjjuk.com

I don't know how to post the video, you can watch it on mjeol

http://site2.mjeol.com/video/mjeol-libo-ag...o-10072011.html

Libo Agwara Attorney for Dr. Adams: Murray is Lying; Killed Michael Jackson UPDATE

Libo Agwara
date: Oct 7 2011
Attorney for Dr. David Adams
Dr. Adams is an Anesthesiologist

+says Dr. Adams has only met Murray once
+says Murray is lying
+says his client has only given Michael Jackson propofol 4 times in 2008 in a medical setting when Michael had
+says murray told Dr. Adams he could get somebody to join the tour for less money than his client was asking
+says his client turned down murray's offer to join murray on the London tour
+says Murray was pressuring local doctors to give MJ propofol as far back as 2007 (admin note: woah!)
+says murray overruled Michael jackson and hired himself (murray)
+says murray didn't want anybody else close to MJ
+says murray had total control over MJ
+says murray killed MJ himself
+says will be looking to file a lawsuit against Conrad Murray
+says Adams will sue Murray
+says Adams is very angry
+says Adams does not administer propofol to anyone outside of a medical setting

+says "My client doesn't run around giving people propofol in their homes. He does them in medical settings and for appropriate procedures."

+says "Just so you know, Jane, we have information that as far back as 2007, Dr. Murray was pressuring some local doctors to actually give Michael Jackson propofol. So first of all, he hasn't even come clean regarding when he started pushing propofol on Michael Jackson"

+says "What happened to Michael Jackson was as a result of Dr. Murray's greed. Not only did [Murray] not hire another specialist, he decided to hire himself. And he didn't know what he was doing. Let me tell you something, if Michael Jackson had hired who he wanted to hire, he would still be alive today. Dr. Murray overruled Michael Jackson and hired himself because if my client (Dr. Adams) had been hired, Dr. Murray would not have been getting $150,000 a month. Because there would be no need for [Murray]."

+says, "Murray did not want anybody else close to Michael Jackson. He had absolute control over that man."

+says, "[Murray] killed that man by himself."

+says, "My client has put over 6,000 people to sleep. They all woke up. That's what Dr. Murray needs to remember."

I wonder how much info. Adams or his attorney gave to the prosecution. Very scary if what he says is true.

There are just so many "if onlys" in this situation. It just really makes me angry that any doctor would have made Michael feel that this was okay, particularly not using the right monitoring procedures/equipment. I just don't understand the lack of that. Even if the goal was greed and Murray didn't want anyone else assisting, then it still doesn't explain the lack of appropriate monitoring. It doesn't explain Michael being sick that day that Ortega was very concerned and Murray getting angry that he was sent home. The better he did his job, the less likely Michael would have even wanted anyone else. How would he have convinced Michael that such was okay, assuming that Michael new all that was being given to him? Something is badly missing in all of this.

I wonder how detailed or far back investigators went with Murray's phone records.

The other thing is that the attorney for Adams claims that Murray had been trying to get doctors to administer propofol to Michael since 2007. Really? Yet there was not one doctor to bring this up to a medical ethics board or anything?

 

[LastTear]

From my understandibg lupus is based off numerous ailments. u cant look and say yeah theyve got lupus. its a collection of symptoms. thats what my mum was told when been Tested For those in the uk is it better to record the actual sky news channel or is there less interruptions on the red button do they actually show it on the red button when its on the actual news channel.

Red button is better, as no adverts and no talking over, but you do miss out on the comments from the experts that sky bring in, they have been quite interesting.

 

[Autumn II]

From my understandibg lupus is based off numerous ailments. u cant look and say yeah theyve got lupus. its a collection of symptoms. thats what my mum was told when been Tested For those in the uk is it better to record the actual sky news channel or is there less interruptions on the red button do they actually show it on the red button when its on the actual news channel.

That's true, that confirmation of lupus is based on a constellation of symptoms. That Michael had lupus has been confirmed by multiple sources, and was "officially" diagnosed quite awhile ago. He also was an active participant in the Lupus Foundation (charity events), and made donations. The POINT is, though, that Lupus was not listed as a cause of death. It was also not mentioned in Murray's medical records for Michael, because Murray didn't HAVE medical records for Michael in the last months of his life. Would lupus have affected Murray's decision to give propofol, given that there was past lung involvement? That is surely possible, that it should have been considered. Just another example of EXTREME negligence.

 

[classic]

Quick question: in days/weeks prior to Michael's death, Lionel Richie would give statements about how Michael was in touch with him about advice, etc., particularly concerning the kids and being back on tour; I think that he also referred to a family get together between his family and Michael's not too long before Michael's death; and he also made a statement in an interview about just trying to help Michael get settled down/calm to get back on stage, etc. So, with contact with him that closely in days or weeks prior to Michael's death, I wonder how much he played into the investigation; I don't think that we have heard anything about what he may or may not have shared with police in regards to his knowledge of Murray or anything else.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Red button is better, as no adverts and no talking over, but you do miss out on the comments from the experts that sky bring in, they have been quite interesting.

thanks alot. i wont be able to watch court on wed so ontop of catching up via here on my phone and checking for updates when i can im gonna record sky so i can try and watch any important testimony when i get back in

 

[lemon662]

Oh, but he did use a drip. Not in the least calibrated, more like a do-it-yourself drip. He spiked the propofol bottle, inserted a syringe to keep it flowing by venting the solution. But the syringe was leaking on the floor. So he inserted the bottle inside a saline bag, along with the syringe and created his own kind of drip. If the limb with the catheter was moved or if the bag is lower than the bottle, the flow would be faster, since the only calibration this drip had was gravity.
Unbelievable.

This site provides a detailed explanation: http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-conrad-murrays-death-drip-explained.html

Popescu, thank you very much for this link. I read it last night and initially I thought it all seemed far too 'far-fetched' but as I continued to read, it made a lot of sense to me; that Murray was performing his own modified Propofol continuous infusions this way, by using an empty Normal Saline bag as a "holder" to contain a bottle of Propofol inside it such that the IV tubing was directly inserted into the vial of Propofol such that MJ would be receiving a direct/continuous drip this way. The only thing I couldn't understand was how the direct infusion of Propofol wouldn't do a major number on MJ's vein because of the fact that it's so painful (which is why it's usually given with Lidocaine). Did he inject some Lidocaine INTO the vial of Propofol prior to doing the drip?

Prior to reading this, I was wondering HOW Murray would have given MJ a continuous drip............when all of the evidence presented in the trial indicated that Murray only had 1000cc (or 1000 ml) bags of Normal Saline. This has always puzzled me. In order to give enough Propofol on a continuous basis to keep MJ sedated, there would have to be a shitload of it inside a 1000 ml bag otherwise the concentration wouldn't be high enough (concentration of Propofol) and he'd therefore have to be giving MJ large amounts of IV fluids to deliver enough of the Propofol (too much). ....unless he discarded a certain amount of the Normal Saline from a new bag (say 200 mls) then added the Propofol......but in reality, if someone is going to give someone a continuous IV drip in a clinic/hospital setting, they'll use a much small IV bag (like 100 ml bag or 250ml bag)...or preferably use a Buretrol which is a special device that's attached between the IV bag and the tubing, that contains the medication and allows the person to better monitor the administration.

Why Murray didn't use a pump though, is beyond me. I thought he'd ordered one from one of those Medical Supply places...........in court they showed a receipt for an IV pump but no mention to date of an infusion pump having been found. It would have given Murray so much more 'free time' had he used one because then there would never be any risk of MJ getting more than the pump was set to deliver.

 

[ivy]

+says Dr. Adams has only met Murray once

from the interview murray also makes it sound like they only met once and the rest was phone calls etc

+says his client has only given Michael Jackson propofol 4 times in 2008 in a medical setting when Michael had procedures


+says "My client doesn't run around giving people propofol in their homes. He does them in medical settings and for appropriate procedures."

this is already established. TMZ posted the story and I had checked the records. It was the dentist Tadrissi which gave MJ implants and root canals. Both admitted to Propofol and Tadrissi was fined for using / allowing to use Propofol in his office when he didn't have appropriate permit. but there was nothing wrong in regard to the treatment and the administration of Propofol. It was just a location issue.

Murray also in the interview says the cosmetologist refused to let his/her office to be used without a procedure. so if that was always the case - propofol given with a procedure - it again backs up Adams point that Propofol wasn't given alone, there was a reason.

(note: whether propofol was required or not is irrelevant. for example one of my college friends has phobia about dentists and all of her dental work is done under anesthesia. From medical stand point she doesn't need it but from individual basis and from psychological perspective it's justified)

+says murray told Dr. Adams he could get somebody to join the tour for less money than his client was asking
+says his client turned down murray's offer to join murray on the London tour
+says Murray was pressuring local doctors to give MJ propofol as far back as 2007 (admin note: woah!)
+says murray overruled Michael jackson and hired himself (murray)
+says murray didn't want anybody else close to MJ
+says murray had total control over MJ

I believe this and I'll explain why below.

+says "What happened to Michael Jackson was as a result of Dr. Murray's greed. Not only did [Murray] not hire another specialist, he decided to hire himself. And he didn't know what he was doing. Let me tell you something, if Michael Jackson had hired who he wanted to hire, he would still be alive today. Dr. Murray overruled Michael Jackson and hired himself because if my client (Dr. Adams) had been hired, Dr. Murray would not have been getting $150,000 a month. Because there would be no need for [Murray]."

Let's do some math. Murray said Adams wanted 1.2 - 1.3 M for a year. Murray signed a contract for $150,00K a month which would make it $1.8 M. I think that first 5 million number Murray asked for included both him and Adams. When AEG refused it saying that it wouldn't happen in a million years, Murray removed Adams and just tried to get himself hired.

Probably down the road he realized that it wasn't a one man job and/or he wasn't qualified. That's why he was trying to get AEG lawyer to change contract from saying nurse to a doctor.

 

[Popescu]

Sorry i dont get u

Sorry, elusive, my reaction to the article you posted was a cross between this:

I wonder how much info. Adams or his attorney gave to the prosecution. Very scary if what he says is true.

and speechless anger...

I mean, what if it true? It's normal that Adams would have reason to lie in order to cover his own a** and also to get back at CM as I understand he's upset, but what if he's not? What if CM really did gain Michael's trust and he was told that he'd be the director of the hospital and so on... this is really upsetting :no:

 

[Popescu]

Popescu, thank you very much for this link. I read it last night and initially I thought it all seemed far too 'far-fetched' but as I continued to read, it made a lot of sense to me; that Murray was performing his own modified Propofol continuous infusions this way, by using an empty Normal Saline bag as a "holder" to contain a bottle of Propofol inside it such that the IV tubing was directly inserted into the vial of Propofol such that MJ would be receiving a direct/continuous drip this way. The only thing I couldn't understand was how the direct infusion of Propofol wouldn't do a major number on MJ's vein because of the fact that it's so painful (which is why it's usually given with Lidocaine). Did he inject some Lidocaine INTO the vial of Propofol prior to doing the drip?

You're welcome!
I think that the Lidocaine "burns" when the patient is awake, in the sense that it's painful to have Propofol injected. He may have administered Lidocaine prior to the bolus injection and hung the drip once deep sedation was acquired, since the patient cannot feel any pain at that point (I think this is how they do it in a hospital setting too, but I'll have to check it with my mother).

The infusion pump is what I didn't get also. It's not like it's an expensive piece of equipment and it's not that he didn't have access to it - if one can buy propofol, one can buy a damn infusion pump, no? He must of seen this somewhere, or another doctor must of told him that this works - I don't think he just invented it.
But why?

 

[cinzia]

At least he could have bought a lot of Buretrols or at least some microdrip tubing, you know that delivers 60 drops per ml vs the 15 drops per ml that he did buy.

Adams' lawyer's comment that murray didn't want anyone else around Michael, that he had total control of Michael really sounds like the truth to me in light of murray's comments to KO. That's always struck me as a very odd thing for a health care practitioner to say. More concerned with his control being threatened than with the fact that others were worried about Michael.
I hope we hear more about this 2007 propofol and murray. Too bad the lawyer didn't mention whether it was discussed with the police. Guess we'll find out sooner or later.
Oh the man is just such a liar...tires me out.

 

[RedMaryFlint]

I mean, what if it true? It's normal that Adams would have reason to lie in order to cover his own a** and also to get back at CM as I understand he's upset, but what if he's not? What if CM really did gain Michael's trust and he was told that he'd be the director of the hospital and so on... this is really upsetting :no:

So that was the gravy train Murray hoped to get a seat on for the long term? Financial security plus a boost to his ego for engaging in a high-profile philanthropic venture? Was the recording of Michael supposed to supply him with proof or be insurance that Michael had offered him this job in case he started to look elsewhere for a director?