Latest on MJJC

Murray Trial - Day 19 - October 27 2011 - Discussion

Ramona122003 said:
Because he's insane.

He claimed that Michael was addicted to propofol and how he knocked Murray out with his propofol breath, yes he actually said this. I think he also said Debbia got him hooked on drugs, ect. He also claimed that Michael was infertility and he had to donate sperm so Michael could have kids.

He said allot more, but that's what I can remember from the top of my head.
Click to expand...

Bull Sh!t!
 
ivy said:
on his facebook klein is recently going around saying hoefflin got mj addicted to propofol. he's too unstable to be a witness. believe me if he was allowed on stand perhaps he could have justified his treatment but in other regards he would have created unbelievable reasonable doubt and be a good witness for defense.
Click to expand...

Hi Ivy,

Like most people, I believe Klein is insane. However, with a stretch of the imagination, there is some slight evidence to suggest that Hoefflin introduced Michael to Propofol for non-medical reasons. Hoefflin was sued by former nurses in the late 90's and one of the claims of the suit is that Hoefflin anaestatized (sp) Michael pretending to perform cosmetic surgery. While Michael was put under, Hoefflin didn't do any surgery, he just looked at and commented on his genitals (allegedly said I bet he's never used it). Supposedly Hoefflin faked cosmetic surgery because Michael was addicted to it and Hoefflin didn't want to perform anymore procedures on him. Katherine Jackson did tell Oprah that she asked plastic surgeons to pretend like they had done surgery on Michael. With Hoefflin's closeness to the Jacksons, maybe he was the doctor Katherine was referring to. At least Klein's demerol injections were associated with an actual procedure.
 
Alayasha said:
Hi Ivy,

Like most people, I believe Klein is insane. However, with a stretch of the imagination, there is some slight evidence to suggest that Hoefflin introduced Michael to Propofol for non-medical reasons. Hoefflin was sued by former nurses in the late 90's and one of the claims of the suit is that Hoefflin anaestatized (sp) Michael pretending to perform cosmetic surgery. While Michael was put under, Hoefflin didn't do any surgery, he just looked at and commented on his genitals (allegedly said I bet he's never used it). Supposedly Hoefflin faked cosmetic surgery because Michael was addicted to it and Hoefflin didn't want to perform anymore procedures on him. Katherine Jackson did tell Oprah that she asked plastic surgeons to pretend like they had done surgery on Michael. With Hoefflin's closeness to the Jacksons, maybe he was the doctor Katherine was referring to. At least Klein's demerol injections were associated with an actual procedure.
Click to expand...

Well, about this allegations, if my memory serves me well, Hoefflin sued the accusers for defamation and won.
 
we don't know what happened but it doesn't change the fact that these people unstable

hoefflin and klein has a beef so klein accuses hoefflin of propofol addiction and hoefflin accusing him of demerol addiction.

you then have jason and klein. klein accuses jason of stealing money and in a bankruptcy case jason accuses klein of over medicating michael.

these people are lunatics and if introduced those would be too much of a doubt, believe me.

and the judge made it clear. this is about june 25th. that day MJ didn't have demerol and didn't die from it.

even the defense argument is that either demerol caused sleep problems or that murray was detoxing mj from demerol. right?

and judge
 
ivy said:
we don't know what happened but it doesn't change the fact that these people unstable

hoefflin and klein has a beef so klein accuses hoefflin of propofol addiction and hoefflin accusing him of demerol addiction.

you then have jason and klein. klein accuses jason of stealing money and in a bankruptcy case jason accuses klein of over medicating michael.

these people are lunatics and if introduced those would be too much of a doubt, believe me.

and the judge made it clear. this is about june 25th. that day MJ didn't have demerol and didn't die from it.

even the defense argument is that either demerol caused sleep problems or that murray was detoxing mj from demerol. right?

and judge
Click to expand...

Yes, they are all having some weird claims to each other because their own agenda. Honestly, I really think the judge at beginning should also rule that the document of Klein can't be used in court. It cause so much out of focus today and I think TM is right about everything. What's all these have to do with what Murray did? I am sorry but I think the judge made a wrong call about the document part. At the end of the trial, the jury were leading to something unrelated. I hope Walgren can put the focus back ASAP.
 
I agree, both Hoefflin and Klein are unstable and IMO irrevelant to this case. Like I said previously, it would take a big stretch of the imagination and a reinterpretation of Mrs. Jackson's comments to Oprah to link Hoefflin to the Propofol/sleep aid treatment. On topic, unless the defense can prove that Michael was experiencing withdrawal from Demerol and that withdrawal made his tolerance to propofol unpredictable, this testamony seems pointless.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Although, the DA can bring this back on him and point out that as Michael's main doctor he should had known about these doctors before he even began any kind of treatment. The fact that he did no work up and didn't even bother to check Michael's history and even double back about whether he knew about other doctors or not will bite him in the butt.
Click to expand...


Thank you. Murray should have either done a complete check-up of Michael's medical history or he shouldn't have taken the job, in my opinion
 
It better not be true if Randy, Rebbie and Janet were nodding to anything that addiction expert was saying. It's disgusting. That guy has no credibility or were they watching something else? Because he sounded like a tabloid reporter than a doctor.
 
Karen Faye is having a fit on twitter

Karen Faye (@wingheart)
Posted Friday 28th October 2011 from TweetList


I owe the fans nothing. Some, like you, have proved to me, that being open & honest, only opens the door for some ppl to lie, twist and make up stories about me, when I opened up my heart, when it was in anguish and confusion. I thought I could find comfort and understanding in the arms of Michaels fans, while others (insiders) around me were lying to make their fortune from my friend's death. But no, you continued to drive the knife deeper in my heart. You taught me a very tough lesson. I will explain to my friends, the circumstances around this trial, but not to those who find it entertaining to cause pain. I actually thought at one time, you were someone who I could confide in. But the lies you spread as truth, led me to abandon you as a friend. I owe you nothing, because of the lies you speak about me. RT @MUZIKfactoryTWO: @wingheart B/c she blurred our minds for over 2 yrs w her words, Karen Faye OWES fans to explain why she avoided the subpoena!


Karen Faye (@wingheart)
Posted Friday 28th October 2011 from TweetList

I don't Nancy. You are my friend. The ones who aren't my friends have made it very obvious. Now they are even spreading my private phone number as if it is some sort of trophy. These ppl are cruel, and do not care how much they abuse me. RT @Narjens5: @wingheart Dear Karen, PLEASE don't think that all of the fans are like this, because there are so many that love and respect you!
 
ivy said:
Karen Faye is having a fit on twitter

Karen Faye (@wingheart)
Posted Friday 28th October 2011 from TweetList


I owe the fans nothing. Some, like you, have proved to me, that being open & honest, only opens the door for some ppl to lie, twist and make up stories about me, when I opened up my heart, when it was in anguish and confusion. I thought I could find comfort and understanding in the arms of Michaels fans, while others (insiders) around me were lying to make their fortune from my friend's death. But no, you continued to drive the knife deeper in my heart. You taught me a very tough lesson. I will explain to my friends, the circumstances around this trial, but not to those who find it entertaining to cause pain. I actually thought at one time, you were someone who I could confide in. But the lies you spread as truth, led me to abandon you as a friend. I owe you nothing, because of the lies you speak about me. RT @MUZIKfactoryTWO: @wingheart B/c she blurred our minds for over 2 yrs w her words, Karen Faye OWES fans to explain why she avoided the subpoena!


Karen Faye (@wingheart)
Posted Friday 28th October 2011 from TweetList

I don't Nancy. You are my friend. The ones who aren't my friends have made it very obvious. Now they are even spreading my private phone number as if it is some sort of trophy. These ppl are cruel, and do not care how much they abuse me. RT @Narjens5: @wingheart Dear Karen, PLEASE don't think that all of the fans are like this, because there are so many that love and respect you!
Click to expand...


This reads like a very bad break up letter. Maybe cause I'm currently watching 'World Dumbest' right now I can't help but laugh at this rant.

If anyone dares to venture to her twitter tell Karen to grow some guts and speak her 'truth' to the court of law. Even the supposed murders, Randy P. and Kenny, went to court and spoke their stories after she cowardly used the internet to call them all sorts of names.
 
bouee said:
What I meant with discrediting is saying things like patients reactions are different from a person to another = don't rely on Dr Shafers models, they don't say that's how MJ reacted. But that's not exactly what Dr Shafer was saying, Dr Shafer was saying that MJ was not even close to any of his self injection models...And all those comments , spelling, using rejected papers..About the non responsive to pain, it was merely used by Dr Shafer to show a level of sedation, and Dr White also used that to indicate a level of sedation
Click to expand...
exactly.well said. what they were doing was as clear ad day along with the i dont want any attention and didnt want to get involved but i only did cause i saw an injustice image hes trying yo portray
 
How can the defence just bring in new evidence now its a joke. white had been onboard for months and no doubt they have had those documents for just aslong. no wonder the system is so slow jury wont get the case till prob wednesday now
 
I have to agree with you Elusive. I've never had much exposure to trials etc before this and I am gobsmacked at some of the things that have been going on and especially how the defence has behaved and changed they minds every 5 mins!
 
twinklEE said:
OMG, what the eff is wrong with this guy? I missed his testimony today, but I read throughout the thread that he was an arrogant asshole, but I NEVER thought he'd be like this! I just saw this little clip and not even his full testimony but wtf?!
Click to expand...
totally agree- haven't been watcing the trial but just watched this clip-talk about about a hostile witness! This guys additude stinks. What is it with these 'addiction specialists'. They seem to think think they are are 'special' themselves.
Arrogant b.
 
I think the defense is grasping at straws and they try to divert attention from what this trial really is about. No matter how Murray and the media would love to make it seem like this trial is about MJ and whether he was ever addicted to anything, it isn't. All this talk about Demerol would only be relevant if there had been Demerol found in Michael's system at the time of his death but there wasn't. Demerol wasn't what killed him. So it's totally irrelevant if Michael has ever been addicted to it. And this addiction expert was talking about the 80s and 90s? What the hell does that have to do with June 25, 2009 and Michael's death because of acut Propofol intoxication?

While all this smoke and mirrors strategy of the defense is going on - and it certainly pleases the sensationalist part of the media -, the real interesting thing is how they cannot SUBSTANTIALLY provide any defense for what Murray did. I mean what was the defense presenting so far? Doctors who only made Murray look worse because they refused to give MJ Propofol, while Murray did. A couple of character witnesses - but even if out of 100 cases Murray has been fantastic in 99 (which I doubt), it's totally irrelevant in the one case where he messed up royally. And now this constant harping on how MJ has been an addict since the 80s. I don't believe he was an addict since the 80s but even if this was true: SO WHAT?! What does it have to do with what Murray did? If MJ was an addict, like they claim, he should have been even more cautious in treating him. So again this would only make Murray look worse.

Michael's insomnia wasn't caused by Demerol. He has had it almost all his adult life, especially while touring. It was caused by his brain unable to switch off and creating all the time, and by the adrenaline while on tour. Heck, it's even mentioned in that 1992 movie, "Jacksons: An American Dream"! In that movie an about 20-year-old Michael is complaining to his mother how he cannot sleep at night because his head is full of songs all the time. I doubt there he had anything to do with Demerol yet. (The movie was produced by Margaret Maldonado and Jermaine, so many info had to come from inside knowledge.)

But even if Demerol was a contributing factor to his insomnia, how would that exonerate Murray? No matter what is the cause of someone's insomnia, whether natural reasons or a medicine, you simply don't treat that with Propofol. Especially not at home and you especially don't leave your patient unmonitored. And if there is a problem you don't mess up like Murray did. You don't delay in calling 911, you don't deliberately mislead the ER doctors and give them false info on what you gave to the patient and so on. Period. That's what this case is about, not about whether Michael was addicted to anything in the 80s or 90s.
 
The only way this would be relevent is if demoral had been in the sytem and was classed as a contributing factor. otherwise it is irrelevent and should never have been allowed in full stop.
 
Ramona122003 said:
If anyone dares to venture to her twitter tell Karen to grow some guts and speak her 'truth' to the court of law. Even the supposed murders, Randy P. and Kenny, went to court and spoke their stories after she cowardly used the internet to call them all sorts of names.
Click to expand...

this the bolded , I agree.
 
What a dreadful pair of experts. The defense just don't seem to realise that even if MJ was being treated by Klein, it has no bearing on Murray. It doesn't excuse what he did. It doesn't make it better! In fact it makes it worse. Why was Murray giving him Midazolam in the night if he was also getting it for his facial treatments?

This is getting more ridiculous by the day! Trashing the victim is the only defense they have left.
 
I wish they hurry up... or maybe they won't cross because the defense will take most of the day
 
no prosecution asked for time. because defense has come up with a new propofol simulation. I guess we'll see it today and prosecution needs time to prepare for it
 
Walgren needs the weekend cause the defence have just handed over some new discovery. judge should get a grip and refuse the new report as theres no reason for it just been done now. it wasnt based on new evidence from the pros
 
Personally, I do not like this at all. The court is coming down to the end of a trial and the defense has new discovery to share? Seriously, this has got to stop. I don't know what they think they're doing. But I hope the judge says no. Enough is enough. This is all just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top