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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

Saving Michael's life was not this man's priority. Yeah, I know we know this. But it is really hitting home for me today.

He did not have the proper monitoring equipment.

He did not have any equipment for dealing with an emergency.

He did not know how to do CPR.

He had no idea where he was.

This man meant for Michael to die. He did.
 
xthunderx2 said:
on the ustream they said that while they were putting Michael's body in the ambulance one of the emt's saw Murray through the window scurrying around the room cleaning up....WTF!!
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Yea when they were carrying MJ body down the stairs one of the EMT's looked up and saw Murray running around the room putting stuff away and they also had to wait for him in the ambulance cause he was still upstairs! He did not come down with the EMT's so more time was wasted to get MJ to the hospital!:mat:
 
TheChosenOne said:
Saving Michael's life was not this man's priority. Yeah, I know we know this. But it is really hitting home for me today.

This man meant for Michael to die. He did.
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Sounds a bit like a conspiracy to me?

I think Murray reacted like many other people would've: he completely flipped out when he found out (one of) the most famous persons on the planet had died on his watch. And he probably knew already that administering propofol was illegal, but he still did it cause of the $150.000 per month payday.
When he found MJ dead he probably tried to revive him, or maybe MJ had been dead for an hour or so (like the EMT said, 20 minutes to an hour) and Murray knew it was a lost cause, so he tried to cover his *ss.
 
They had to wait for him to come to the ambulance? This is a nightmare. It just gets worse and worse.
 
Can anybody help me with this


Is there a list of persons in or around the house?????

And why is the girlfriend testifying is that reliable? Or is she a witness from the defensE?
 
bluetopez said:
Yea when they were carrying MJ body down the stairs one of the EMT's looked up and saw Murray running around the room putting stuff away and they also had to wait for him in the ambulance cause he was still upstairs! He did not come down with the EMT's so more time was wasted to get MJ to the hospital!:mat:
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No way! I can't frickin believe this!
 
bluetopez said:
Yea when they were carrying MJ body down the stairs one of the EMT's looked up and saw Murray running around the room putting stuff away and they also had to wait for him in the ambulance cause he was still upstairs! He did not come down with the EMT's so more time was wasted to get MJ to the hospital!:mat:
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at this point I don't even know how to comment on all this... it's just so horrible. Michael didn't have any chance to survive that day at all :(
 
Is she still his girlfriend, or his ex by now?
I assume she won't lie under oath, unless she wants to go down with Murray in this mess.
 
mthalen said:
Sounds a bit like a conspiracy to me?

I think Murray reacted like many other people would've: he completely flipped out when he found out (one of) the most famous persons on the planet had died on his watch. And he probably knew already that administering propofol was illegal, but he still did it cause of the $150.000 per month payday.
When he found MJ dead he probably tried to revive him, or maybe MJ had been dead for an hour or so (like the EMT said, 20 minutes to an hour) and Murray knew it was a lost cause, so he tried to cover his *ss.
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If there is one thing I am not is a conspiracy theorist. And up to today I did consider the 'OMG what have I done, let me cover my ass' possibility. And certainly there is evidence to show quite clearly that Murray was committed to covering his ass.

But after today, I don't know there is something malevolent about Murray's actions to me ... I am still sorting things out in my mind.
 
mthalen said:
Sounds a bit like a conspiracy to me?

I think Murray reacted like many other people would've: he completely flipped out when he found out (one of) the most famous persons on the planet had died on his watch. And he probably knew already that administering propofol was illegal, but he still did it cause of the $150.000 per month payday.
When he found MJ dead he probably tried to revive him, or maybe MJ had been dead for an hour or so (like the EMT said, 20 minutes to an hour) and Murray knew it was a lost cause, so he tried to cover his *ss.
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propofol is not illegal but is not recommended for use outside a hospital setting.
I'm sorry BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT MURRAY DID. END OF.
 
Pace said:
911 is pretty versed in that. I once called 911 in the US from a cell phone that was registered in Germany...I did not have an exact address except for "downtown crossing Boston, MA" and they pretty much immediately starting quizzing me because they asked me in confusion what the hell my cell phone number is all about, where I am, to describe landmarks- just as you mentioned. Also, they pretty much stayed with me on the phone to make sure they can find me- or at least get a reliable description that matched their maps.

This whole "didn't know where I am" story is rather strange for anyone.
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I agree with you that "didn't know where I am" is quite strange.

One day I received a call back from 911 as it turns out I unknowingly and mistakenly dialed 911 on my cell phone (don't ask me how) and then line was cut (apparently I then mistakenly ended the call). They classified it as a "distress call" - that I was calling 911 but wasn't able to talk to them such as I was a hostage.

The initial thing they said to me was to give them my location and even if I didn't know where I was to tell them landmarks and what I could see so that they could get to me.

Even if you don't have a perfect address, 911 will try to find where you are. so that's BS on Murray's part.
 
summer said:
. . . Had Murray monitored MJ and had he INTUBATED Michael the second MJ stopped breathing, Michael would still be alive. Really. That simple.

. . . :clapping:
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And this is what is so heartbreaking about it all. I really believe in my heart that Michael could have been saved; that there really isn't a reason that he should be dead if Murray had just done what he was suppose to at least at one point in time of these tragic events.
 
TheChosenOne said:
If there is one thing I am not is a conspiracy theorist. And up to today I did consider the 'OMG what have I done, let me cover my ass' possibility. And certainly there is evidence to show quite clearly that Murray was committed to covering his ass.

But after today, I don't know there is something malevolent about Murray's actions to me ... I am still sorting things out in my mind.
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Hehe, I agree after today things get messier and messier...
But iff Murray meant to kill MJ, what would be the reason?

MJ was worth more to him alive then dead (150.000 a month for almost a year adds up nicely).




// Any new updates? It thought it restarted at 13:15?
 
according to witness :

Murray did not perfom CPR and did not call the bodygaurds and did not try to help MJ , and he was making phonecalls !

so !why he did not clean the scene during the 40 to 20 minutes before anyone noticed the mistake, why to wait all this time until the Bodygaurds and paramidecs arrive !
 
ivy said:
I agree with you that "didn't know where I am" is quite strange.

One day I received a call back from 911 as it turns out I unknowingly and mistakenly dialed 911 on my cell phone (don't ask me how) and then line was cut (apparently I then mistakenly ended the call). They classified it as a "distress call" - that I was calling 911 but wasn't able to talk to them such as I was a hostage.

The initial thing they said to me was to give them my location and even if I didn't know where I was to tell them landmarks and what I could see so that they could get to me.

Even if you don't have a perfect address, 911 will try to find where you are.
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My toddler once dialed 911 by mistake on my cell phone, 911 picked up, I said sorry, wrong call, I apologized. I got a phone call back and was informed that cops are on the way to 'make sure' since hang-up calls to 911 are being taken seriously.

NOTHING Murray did makes ANY sense. NOTHING.
 
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mthalen said:
Hehe, I agree after today things get messier and messier...
But iff Murray meant to kill MJ, what would be the reason?

MJ was worth more to him alive then dead (150.000 a month for almost a year adds up nicely).
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Murray was driving an unsigned contract around in his car- a contract that Michael hadn't signed. Pretty difficult to receive those 150.000 a month with an unsigned contract.
 
TheChosenOne said:
Saving Michael's life was not this man's priority. Yeah, I know we know this. But it is really hitting home for me today.

He did not have the proper monitoring equipment.

He did not have any equipment for dealing with an emergency.

He did not know how to do CPR.

He had no idea where he was.

This man meant for Michael to die. He did.
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It becomes clearer by the day does'nt it.....:(

bluetopez said:
Yea when they were carrying MJ body down the stairs one of the EMT's looked up and saw Murray running around the room putting stuff away and they also had to wait for him in the ambulance cause he was still upstairs! He did not come down with the EMT's so more time was wasted to get MJ to the hospital!:mat:
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It would seem Dr. Murray was at the head of the line when STUPIDITY was up for grabs!:evil:

I wonder if the medical board is paying any attention to what has gone down this week in court? 'cause if I had the authority, his damn licence would be so gone! I am so hoping to see some action from them.
 
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summer said:
You don't give a new dose of the same drug because then you risk overdosing. Just like with something as simple as when a kid has a fever. If you give paracetamol and the fever won't go down or goes back up pretty soon after giving paracetamol...you shouldn't give paracetamol AGAIN, because it's too soon...you should give something else. Hope that helps.
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My question was more of a rhetorical question. I've been suffering from insomnia for more than 20 years, I have some experience with benzos. You can't really overdose if you stick with what a doctor tells you. Usually, since those meds are not candy, they will tell you to start with a low dose, let's say 1 mg (depending on the medication, the 1 mg is just an example to show what I mean), but you can go up to 10 mg and that's still far away from overdosing. A responsible doctor would tell you to take another 1 mg maybe, if the first dose was not enough. And after a while, you should have found the dose that is right for you. You are not supposed to take a lot for a long period of time, weeks or months, to avoid addiction.

Actually, I think the risk of overdosing is a lot bigger if you give different kinds of benzos in one night because you can't really know at what point they start to effect each other, etc. Especially if they have different half-lives (I guess that's what it's called in English?), so if one has a half-life of let's say 20 hours and will stay in your body that long and you give another different one after an hour, you don't really know anymore how much the person has actually in their body, and then if you give a third or even forth one (I do remember it was 3 or 4 different ones, and without really knowing what they were at the moment, I'm sure they had different half-lives), you have no idea at all anymore what's going on in the body. And if you give a different one after the first one, it might even "enhance" the effect of the first one. So my opinion is, it all started with the benzos, Murray didn't know what he was doing there, was acting irresponsible even before giving Propofol, and he is not a psychiatrist. Would like to hear from a psychiartrist and what they think about the use of those benzos.
 
TheChosenOne said:
If there is one thing I am not is a conspiracy theorist. And up to today I did consider the 'OMG what have I done, let me cover my ass' possibility. And certainly there is evidence to show quite clearly that Murray was committed to covering his ass.

But after today, I don't know there is something malevolent about Murray's actions to me ... I am still sorting things out in my mind.
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I agree and feel the same as you do. There is something here that really just doesn't add up and is missing. I would love to know what his phone records look like from other nights that he has stayed at Michael's house. Is this amount of phone activity usual or not?

Sadly if there is more to this than the "OMG what have I done, let me cover my ass" possibility as you say, then I have this strange feeling it isn't as obvious as most people would think. There is this strange nagging feeling that I have.
 
Soundmind said:
11:51- 12:02 am a call placed from Murry to 3832 11 minutes. the girfriend ( Murray "just" realised mj was in bad shape) He dropped the phone to perform CPR

12:03 pm text
12:04 text message to or from TX
12:12 pm from Murray phone to 2570 lasted 1 minute MJ'S ASSISTAN
12:15 pm from 2570 to conrad Murray 1 minute


wow
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Cant belive Dr Death was texting after he dropped the phone when he realised MJ was in distress. Then it took him 10 minutes to call for assistance (the assistant).
 
Pace said:
Murray was driving an unsigned contract around in his car- a contract that Michael hadn't signed. Pretty difficult to receive those 150.000 a month with an unsigned contract.
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Isn't an oral contract binding in the US?
I know it is over here. You don't need a signature.
 
mthalen said:
I know. But it's their interpretation, which seems a bit black and white to me. I think the quote I posted from Trials & Tribulations makes more sense, that's all.
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sounds to me like you are trying to be against mj but for Murray. Its alright we all know that murray has his supporters but they are wrong and so are you. Its ok everyone is entitled to support who they wish but do note the one you are supporting will go to jail.

Its not open to interpretation. The EMT says there was no sign of drug abuse i am more inclined to believe them then you.
 
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