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"They're trying to poison me., They're trying to kill me"

I think is natural that he would feel like somebody was trying to kill him, cause as he was innocent he couldnt explain why someone would even believe that Arvizo kid and his family, he felt that someone was kind of coaching the family to get him down, u know? I think it was pretty much like that, The Arvizo family lied cause they saw an opportunnity of getting money but i really believe someone made them lied or undrestand they could get money out of the Bashir documental, I would have thinked the same way Michael did, i would be paranoid, if i didnt do anything, and its clear that that family was lying and is obviousto the eyes of everyone, why would they support that fake, mostly based on a documental case(and coached lies of course) in which Michael was doing nothing wrong? why wouldnt he be paranoid? its perfectly normal for any human to feel that they are persecuted and that there is someone trying to get you down
 
Trish said:
That's the scary part. How many times did Michael's blood pressure drop in the 6 weeks prior to his death? How many times did he almost die?
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I've been working on a timeline independently, just to try to make sense of the welter of information. Things pop out at you.

I've constructed this part of the timeline using http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf , which is the supporting material for some of Det Martinez's search warrants, which I refer to as SWA P23. Murray told police in his interview that he'd started out giving Michael 50 mg propofol nightly, then tried to wean him off it because he was afraid he was becoming addicted.

6/21/09
SWA P23: Father's Day; Lee gets a call from bodyguard Faheem Muhammed, saying Michael is sick; she hears him in the background saying, "one side of my body is hot and the other side is cold"; she tells Muhammed to take him to the hospital

6/22/09
SWA P23: Murray switches to getting Michael to sleep using 25 mg of propofol along with lorazepam and midazolam

6/23/09
SWA P23: Murray gets Michael to sleep using only lorazepam and midazolam

Hmm.
 
I found it absolutely incredible that if Michael was sick and panicked, one side of his body hot and the other cold, that nobody would take him to a hospital! It would seem that there were substances in his body that would have gotten Murray in a lot of trouble, and that's why he didn't take him. Oh, God! I just wish Michael had called 911 HIMSELF!

So then the next day, Murray reduces the dosage of Propofol, knowing that it probably caused Michael's adverse reaction. And the next day, he reduces it further. So WHY go back to using it????
 
The more i read,the more i hate this doctor murder.

Never in my life i thought i would hate someone.But i do,and it is a awfull feeling that dosen't go away no matter what i try.

I swear...i never thought i would wish someone to die,but this doctor...i would kill him with my own hands.I would go to jail,i would be sentenceced to death,i don't care what would happen to me at all.I would have the feeling that the world had lose a dangerous murder!

Gosh i am so maddddd.Why all this?
Why Michael?
 
Victoria83 said:
I found it absolutely incredible that if Michael was sick and panicked, one side of his body hot and the other cold, that nobody would take him to a hospital! It would seem that there were substances in his body that would have gotten Murray in a lot of trouble, and that's why he didn't take him. Oh, God! I just wish Michael had called 911 HIMSELF!

So then the next day, Murray reduces the dosage of Propofol, knowing that it probably caused Michael's adverse reaction. And the next day, he reduces it further. So WHY go back to using it????
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Because the drugs were being forced on him.
 
Moddie777 said:
Because the drugs were being forced on him.
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I agree. No way Michael would ask for such a mix of drugs. And then a dangerous and deadly substance with the mix of those drugs?? Their trying to make Michael look stupid AS ALWAYS....:no:

Michael is very intelligent. He knows what mixing different substances can do to a person, especially dangerous ones.
 
I haven't spoke on this, but I have thinking. It is very possible he was slipping something into his breakfast.

Victoria83 said:
Personally, I don't think Michael was paranoid at all, or at least, not without reason. I've read this account (from Dick Gregory) before, but thanks for posting.

Now, go to the official tox-report (or what little was revealed of it). Look up the drug, "Ephedra." Ephedra was a weight-loss supplement, but was taken off the market because it had the tendency to cause sudden cardiac arrest. There is no WAY Michael would have been taking something for weight-loss. Quite the opposite. This was actually a theory floated by Trish. Makes a certain amount of sense. This is a wild guess, but Murray was bringing Michael his breakfast. In other words, Michael wasn't coming downstairs for it to be served by Kai Chase. Ephedra is an oral supplement that could be rendered into a powder form. It's not an injection. Just think about it? Grasping at straws here. . . . .

I at first thought this was a drug administered as part of the "rescue attempt." But that would have been Epinephren, not "Ephedra." (Epinephren is adrenalin. I'm sure Ephedra is related.)
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MJJKingforever said:
I don't know if this is true, but if it is, then MJ had much more severe mental disorders than i thought. I don't know if we can beleive that... I never even thought that he could be so paranoic and illussional...
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I don't agree with you at all.

Michael had reason to think people were after him, cause the truth of the matter is they were.

Starting in 1993. And we see what has happen now.
 
Victoria83 said:
Just LOOK at the symptoms! Anxiety. Weight-loss. Insomnia. Heart problems, and even cardiac arrest. If Michael were given this drug without his knowledge, he wouldn't KNOW why he couldn't get to sleep at night, or was feeling unusual anxiety. Or how much danger he was really in. . . . . .

Follower fans began to notice Michael's decline about a month before he died. The timing was almost exactly the same as when Dileo came on the scene. I'm not suggesting anything here (?). Just pointing it out. Everyone has insomnia sometimes, but Michael's was apparently extreme. Ephedra could have totally caused that! It would be like drinking five or more cups of strong coffee at ten p.m. No sleep. Inevitable.
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Wow, no wonder he couldn't sleep.

Hard for me to believe michael was taking this on his own. When it is doing the opposite of what he wanted.

Has anyone been able to confirm the story that Michael complained to them about not feeling good and having chest pains?

And why haven't we heard from Frank yet?
 
I read somewhere that weaning someone very fast off propohol is BAD....you dont jump from 50 to 25 in just a day

I'll have to find the link......
 
Yeah, I'm still waiting for that interview Frank............what's wrong? Questions are too tough for ya?

But I have one question. If Michael was taking a wieght loss medication, doesn't he already lose enough wait when he rehearses and stuff?

And someone said somthing about possibly slipping it into his breakfeast. That is possible. Dr. Murder could've done it when he brought Michael his breakfeast every morning. Who knows what he was putting in there???? There's so many possibililtes.
 
Trish said:
I really think the Ephedrine is the smoking gun. I've made the connection that Michael was on Ephedrine longer than we think...





Note the link: Michael was having a prostate urinary problem because he was taking prostate medication tamsulosin (Flomax). Ephedra side effects beyond sleeplessness and weight loss are urinary disorders. If this is the case, Michael must have had an incredible amount of Ephedrine in his system the 6 weeks leading up to his death. It explains his mood change around fathers day, his sudden and drastic weight loss, insomnia, and not wanting to eat.

Ephedrine is the smoking gun. ya'll.
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I agree. Excellent connection.
 
If the story of this ephidrine is true. I just read it is BANNED in the United States....

http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/allergiesasthma/a/Ephedra.htm

here's something i caught while reading it

Ephedra should not be combined with other substances with a stimulant effect, such as caffeine and Sudafed (pseudoephedrine hydrochloride), as it may have an additive effect. Herbs known to contain caffeine include green tea, kola nut, guarana and yerba mate, while bitter orange is a stimulant.

Heard Michael was drinking hot tea from Kenny Ortega.

The risk of side effects and adverse effects appears to be greater in people with preexisting conditions, such as heart disease, high blood pressure; heart rate disorders; thyroid disease; hypoglycemia; glaucoma; anxiety;

If it is true Michael had anxiety in the past, then why would the doc even give ephedra to him?
 
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Victoria83 said:
http://www.drugabusehelp.com/drugs/ephedra/

In February of 2004, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a final rule prohibiting the sale of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids (ephedra). Also known as Ma huang, the FDA has determined such supplements pose an unreasonable risk of illness or injury to consumers and the rule is effective 60 days from the date of publication.

The FDA’s final puts manufacturers on notice that dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids present an unreasonable risk of illness or injury. Consequently, this ruling affects all currently marketed dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids. The extent of the rule does not pertain to traditional Chinese herbal remedies. Affected are all dietary supplements that contain a source of ephedrine alkaloids, such as ephedra, Ma huang, Sida cordifolia and pinellia.

Ephedra, or ephedrine sulfate, is a naturally occurring substance derived from plants. Its principal active ingredient is ephedrine, which when chemically synthesized is regulated as a drug under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. In recent years ephedra products have been widely promoted to boost weight loss, sports performance, and energy. In addition, ephedra is enormously popular with dieters because it suppresses appetite and boosts energy. It is known under many names including Desert or Mormon tea.

Ephedra's active medicinal ingredients are the alkaloids ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. Both ephedrine and its synthetic counterparts stimulate the (CNS) central nervous system, dilate the bronchial tubes, increase blood pressure, and heart rate. Pseudoephedrine (the synthetic form) is a popular over-the-counter remedy for nasal congestion.
Sources:
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2004/NEW01021.html
http://www.fda.gov/oc/initiatives/ephedra/february2004/qa_020604.html
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101040.shtml

Background:
Ephedra is listed as one of the original 365 herbs from the classical first century A.D. text on Chinese herbalism by Shen Nong. The Chinese have used ephedra medicinally for over 5,000 years. While the active constituent, ephedrine, was first isolated in 1887, it was not until 1924 that the herb became popular with physicians in the U.S. for its broncho-dilating and decongesting properties.

Popular in China, ephedra is known as Tsaopen-Ma Huang. Its active ingredient, ephedrine, is the main component in the well-known asthma remedy Primatene. Ephedra grows mainly in Mongolia and the bordering area of China.
Source:
http://www.holistic-online.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h53.htm

Indications:
Ephedra is used as a stimulant and for mild respiratory disorders, including asthma and bronchitis. In Asian medicine, it is used for fever, swelling, and bone pain. Ephedrine, the principle alkaloid, a popular ingredient in many "herbal" weight loss and body building formulas, decongestants, "legal high" alternatives, and ephedrine-based pep pills.
Sources:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101040.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/plants/ephedra/ephedra.shtml

Usage:
Ephedra is available in crushed herb form, tinctures, and as a liquid extract. Be sure to follow manufacturer directions as potencies vary.

General guidelines for adults are as follows:

Tea: Use 1 to 4 grams of crushed Ephedra; take 3 times daily.
Liquid extract: 1 to 3 milliliters (about one-quarter to one-half teaspoonful) 3 times daily.
Tincture (1:1): The usual single dose is 5 grams (1 teaspoonful).
Tincture (1:4): 6 to 8 milliliters (about 1 to 11/2 teaspoonfuls) 3 times daily.

Do not exceed the manufacturer’s recommended dosage because ephedra can be very harmful to your health.

Effects:
Ephedra's value for respiratory problems derives from the calming effect it has on spasms in the bronchial walls. At the same time, ephedra stimulates the nervous system, and boosts the rate and strength of heart contractions. It also tends to discourage the growth of bacteria.

Side Effects:
Ephedra has many potential side effects including sleeplessness, restlessness, irritability, headache, nausea, vomiting, urinary disorders, and rapid heartbeat. Higher doses can stimulate a sharp rise in blood pressure and disrupt heart rhythm. Chronic use can lead to tolerance and dependence, requiring ever larger doses to obtain earlier effects. Due to these dangers, ephedra should only be used for short periods of time.
Source:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101040.shtml

Cautionary Notes:
Combining ephedra with certain other drugs can increase, decrease, alter the effects, and induce potentially serious problems. Ephedra should not be combined with:

*heart drugs such as digitalis or digoxin (Lanoxin) because ephedra is more likely to disturb heart rhythm.
*the blood pressure medication guanethidine (Ismelin)as ephedra can seriously magnify the herb's stimulative effects.
*drugs classified as MAO inhibitors, such as the antidepressants Nardil and Parnate and the Parkinson's disease medication Eldepryl.
*ergot-based migraine drugs such as Ergomar and Wigraine with Ephedra can induce high blood pressure.

Special Notes:

Because of its effect on the heart, ephedra can be very dangerous when taken in excessive amounts.

Do not take ephedra if you have high blood pressure, glaucoma, weakened blood vessels in the brain, prostate cancer, an overactive adrenal gland, or a thyroid disorder. It’s generally wise to avoid ephedra if you have any condition that makes you anxious or restless.

Adverse CNS effects associated with ephedrine toxicity include anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, psychosis and seizures. The major cardiovascular toxicity includes hypertension and tachyarrhythmias. If you experience any of these symptoms, seek medical attention immediately. According to the New England Journal of Medicine, a number of deaths resulting from symptoms of ephedra toxicity have been reported.

Overdosage:

Ephedra’s toxic effects are primarily due to ephedrine, and to a lesser extent, pseudoephedrine. Both stimulate the adrenergic system and ephedrine toxicity may be noticeable with doses only 2 to 3 times the therapeutic range.

Doses of more than 100 grams (about 3 ounces) can be life-threatening. Symptoms of overdose include severe sweating, enlarged pupils, spasms, and increased body temperature. Death results from heart failure and suffocation. If you suspect an overdose, seek emergency treatment immediately.
Sources:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101040.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/plants/ephedra/ephedra.shtml

Dependency:
According to a recent report on 20/20, many ephedra fans believe it is not a drug because the active ingredient comes from a plant. However, ephedra is a stimulant that increases the heart rate, blood pressure, and speeds up brain activity. There is little doubt ephedra is addictive or habit forming, particularly due to the ever increasing number of people taking it in high dosages, however unwittingly.

Extended use can lead to tolerance and dependence, requiring ever increasing doses to obtain an effect. Due to these dangers, you should only take ephedra for short periods of time.

Tolerance is a diminished response to a drug. It is the effect of cellular adaptive changes or enhanced drug metabolism that develops over days, weeks, or months from the extended use of a medication. Ephedra users are susceptible to tolerance.

If you have been a long term ephedra user, and/or taking larger quantities than recommended by the manufacturer, consult your physician to help you discontinue this medication in a careful and safe manner.
Source:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101040.shtml

Withdrawal:
If you are a long term ephedra user, do not stop taking it without first checking with your doctor. Suddenly stopping this medicine may cause dangerous withdrawal side effects; your doctor will gradually taper your dosage before stopping completely.

Treatment:
A moderate to severe addiction may necessitate an in patient detox in a hospital or medical supervised setting. Treatment will ultimately depend on the degree of addiction.

However a person chooses to free themselves from the clutches of a drug, there is one constant each needs: Support. Narcotics Anonymous remains a successful choice for many addicts, with world-wide availability. The "information age" has produced numerous on line support forums, popular with many recovering addicts, useful to some addicts as their sole means of support and for others, as adjunct therapy. Drug addiction is treatable, with help out there for everyone.
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very imformative thanx hunni
 
Yea, I'm not going there with the occult or illuminate the may be one in the same, don't know much about them.

We have powerful, greedy men who couldn't stand the idea of Michael having so much power. It's shocking the number of people who wanted to take the ATV cat from Michael.

Victoria83 said:
Personally, I'm not going down the road of the "occult." I know that Michael was very interested in mythologies, in general, and I'm just not seein' the connection with the symbols on an album cover, and a murder. IS there some sort of global government? Sure, in a way. It's all about the money, and getting more of it. I think that ultimately, Michael was killed because he could make more money for AEG, and for Sony, dead than alive. His being able to complete the performances was sketchy. He hadn't performed in YEARS.

I'm also not going down the road of Michael being "given" vitiligo. It's an autoimmune disease, and he said it was in his family. The first vitiligo patches began to show up when he was a CHILD. Plus, I know of no medication (or poison) that would give someone this condition.

I think that when this finally comes to light. . . and it WILL. . . it will be found that the ATV catalog is at the heart of it.
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karmagrl said:
Please forgive me if this link has already been posted, it's a small world after all!
http://susanetok.wordpress.com/

There is another link on that page re; R. Phillips, you need to check it out as well!!!
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Thank you for sharing this. This makes me sick. I didn't Thome was married to Randy Phillips sister. Sounds to me they knew each other more than anyone knew.

Like I said before. Michael was an insect, a beautiful butterfly, trapped inside a spider web. The web is all the connected players.
 
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Victoria83 said:
Ephedra was found in Michael's system. Here are some possibilities.

1. It was given as part of the rescue attempt, to restart his heart. If so, this is another example of bungling by Murray. Epinephren is what's usually given. It's adrenalyn. Tests done on hair-samples would show long-term use of Ephedra. I hope those tests were DONE.

2. Michael was taking Ephedra to lose weight. That is NOT likely. He tried to gain weight before tours, not lose weight.

Or, 3. It was given to him without his knowledge, to KILL him. It's one of these three. . . . .

http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/allergiesasthma/a/Ephedra.htm

Possible Side Effects of Ephedra

* nausea
* headache; dizziness
* irritation of the stomach; diarrhea
* anxiety; psychosis
* kidney stones
* tremors
* dry mouth
* irregular or rapid heart rhythms; heart damage
* high blood pressure
* restlessness; nervousness; sleeping problems
* decreased appetite
* flushing; sweating
* increased urination

Use of ephedra has also been associated with stroke, seizures, psychosis and death.
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I'm going with 1 or 3,

Hair samples are key to disprove 1.

3. is so likely since Murray had unlimited access to his food.
 
slimblonde2 said:
1. So, we don't know FOR SURE that ephedrine was found in Michael's body. We don't have the tox report and are not likely to get it anytime soon.
2. Do we know FOR SURE that Murray was hired 6 weeks prior to 25 June? I've seen reports that he sent letters to his patients stating that he was leaving his practice on 15th JUNE. That's 10 days not 6 weeks.
3. If Michael was dehydrated back in 2005, that could contribute to his feelings of paranoia (I'm not a doctor but it can make you pretty confused) :

With severe dehydration, confusion and weakness will occur as the brain and other body organs receive less blood. Finally, coma and organ failure will occur if the dehydration remains untreated.

4. If Michael was only eating one meal a day or eating lightly, and doing 4 hour rehearsals for a month, he would lose weight rapidly. Remember, he was very thin at the O2 press conference anyway.
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Sorry, ephedrine was found in Michael's system.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

RE: Coroner Case Number 2009-04415 – JACKSON, Michael Joseph

Earlier this month, the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner completed its investigation into the death of Michael Joseph Jackson, age 50, who died on June 25, 2009.

The cause of death was established as:

· ACUTE PROPOFOL INTOXICATION
· OTHER CONDITIONS CONTRIBUTING TO DEATH: BENZODIAZEPINE EFFECT

The manner of death has been ruled: HOMICIDE
The drugs PROPOFOL and LORAZEPAM were found to be the primary drugs responsible for Mr. Jackson’s death. Other drugs detected were: Midazolam, Diazepam, Lidocaine and Ephedrine.

The final Coroner’s report, including the complete toxicology report will remain on Security Hold at the request of the Los Angeles Police Department and the Los Angeles County District Attorney. In accordance with this request, the Department of Coroner will not comment on its completed investigation.
CRH -08/27/2009
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And According to Dr. Murray's deposition to the police, he started giving Michael propofol to battle insomnia 6 weeks prior to his death:

Dr. Conrad Murray told cops he had been treating Jackson for 6 weeks for insomnia -- giving him 50 milligrams of Propofol every night through an IV.

Murray told cops he feared Jackson was getting addicted so he reduced the dosage to 25 mg.

The morning Jackson died, Dr. Murray gave Jackson valium at 1:30 AM. Murray said the valium didn't work so he gave the singer an IV injection of lorazepam -- an anti-anxiety drug. Murray told cops Jackson was still awake, so he then gave him midazolam -- a sedative.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/jackson-died-from-lethal-levels-of-propofol/#ixzz0QBuGBLK9
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It doesnt make sense that Michael would request Propofol @ 10:40. He would only have 4hrs to be at rehearsals. And thats including having a shower/getting ready, kids etc.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
It doesnt make sense that Michael would request Propofol @ 10:40. He would only have 4hrs to be at rehearsals. And thats including having a shower/getting ready, kids etc.
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I know, it makes no sense. None of it does. Dr. Murderer is a LIAR. I believe nothing that comes out of his lying mouth.
 
Re: Michael's weight-loss you could definitely see in his face alone that he had lost a lot. The media say he had lipo in his cheeks but I never believed that. He had a gaunt look about him.
 
Draliongirl said:
I think is natural that he would feel like somebody was trying to kill him, cause as he was innocent he couldnt explain why someone would even believe that Arvizo kid and his family, he felt that someone was kind of coaching the family to get him down, u know? I think it was pretty much like that, The Arvizo family lied cause they saw an opportunnity of getting money but i really believe someone made them lied or undrestand they could get money out of the Bashir documental, I would have thinked the same way Michael did, i would be paranoid, if i didnt do anything, and its clear that that family was lying and is obviousto the eyes of everyone, why would they support that fake, mostly based on a documental case(and coached lies of course) in which Michael was doing nothing wrong? why wouldnt he be paranoid? its perfectly normal for any human to feel that they are persecuted and that there is someone trying to get you down
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I agree with that and that family can go where the sun don't shine :blowup:

kasume said:
Yeah, I'm still waiting for that interview Frank............what's wrong? Questions are too tough for ya?

But I have one question. If Michael was taking a wieght loss medication, doesn't he already lose enough wait when he rehearses and stuff?

And someone said somthing about possibly slipping it into his breakfeast. That is possible. Dr. Murder could've done it when he brought Michael his breakfeast every morning. Who knows what he was putting in there???? There's so many possibililtes.
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Yep, he coulda put anything in his breakfast...and wouldn't Michael want to put ON weight before shows? Surely he would want to beef up, not the other way round. Cause he would lose alot of weight through the shows from the dancing, sweating etc...

kasume said:
If the story of this ephidrine is true. I just read it is BANNED in the United States....

http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/allergiesasthma/a/Ephedra.htm

here's something i caught while reading it

Ephedra should not be combined with other substances with a stimulant effect, such as caffeine and Sudafed (pseudoephedrine hydrochloride), as it may have an additive effect. Herbs known to contain caffeine include green tea, kola nut, guarana and yerba mate, while bitter orange is a stimulant.

Heard Michael was drinking hot tea from Kenny Ortega.

The risk of side effects and adverse effects appears to be greater in people with preexisting conditions, such as heart disease, high blood pressure; heart rate disorders; thyroid disease; hypoglycemia; glaucoma; anxiety;

If it is true Michael had anxiety in the past, then why would the doc even give ephedra to him?
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To kill him. Heighten the anxiety, Michael can't sleep,DR COWBOY makes him think he needs more drugs..and then.. woopsy daisy an overdose, blames it on Michael :ranting:
 
reading all comments here they all make sense, Michael was killed on purpose, i feel sick
 
Victoria83 said:
I found it absolutely incredible that if Michael was sick and panicked, one side of his body hot and the other cold, that nobody would take him to a hospital! It would seem that there were substances in his body that would have gotten Murray in a lot of trouble, and that's why he didn't take him. Oh, God! I just wish Michael had called 911 HIMSELF!

So then the next day, Murray reduces the dosage of Propofol, knowing that it probably caused Michael's adverse reaction. And the next day, he reduces it further. So WHY go back to using it????
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Ephedrine?

I agree that ephedrine could be the smoking gun in this case. The doctor got Michael to sleep for two nights prior with no propofol, but on the last night could not get him to sleep without it. Something had to be different, and on the list of substances found in Michael's system, ephedrine sticks out like a sore thumb. Everything else is a sedative or anaesthetic.

So why did he have ephedrine in his system? The drug functions as both a stimulant and decongestant in its various forms. Michael arrived at rehearsal at 6:30 pm on the 24th complaining of laryngitis. If it was not laryngitis but the onset of a cold, they might have administered medicine for it, perhaps near midnight, which could have kept him awake despite the sedatives. Or, they might have administered it as a stimulant, if his energy was flagging, because they were filming the HD dress rehearsals that week and might have felt he needed to do his best to bring it off. Murray himself could have been the one to administer it, because I remember reading he sometimes showed up at rehearsals, and although according to Kai Chase, he normally arrived at the house at 9:30 pm, security video shows him arriving that night at 1 am.

At any rate, I think the timeline has a significant role to play in establishing intent, which is an important factor in determining whether Murray could be charged with manslaughter or second-degree murder. Intent has already been established to some degree in that a doctor's general medical knowledge would tell him that administering anaesthetic outside a hospital is dangerous, yet Murray chose to do it anyway. Murray's changing the medication on the heels of a medical scare like the one on Father's Day is evidence that he knew about the incident and believed that propofol was responsible. Yet two days later, he chose to administer it again in spite of his apparent belief there was a problem.
 
Victoria83 said:
The Ephedra wasn't killing him fast enough? He was getting ready to go to London. And now this. He probably had no idea what even was happening to him. . . . ..

This is one theory, and there are others. But with this one, everything FITS. Thanks, Trish. . . . .
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I think he knew that something is going on and he stopped eating and drinking. Investigators have to check people who delivered food to his house, people who cooked for him also and doctors. Why did he go to dr Kline office that often? It doesn't make any sense. I think they started to poison him long time ago. He just realized it too late. A very kind person like Michael would never think that people can do things like this. I was thinking about the drug they could give him which could make him hyper but I didn’t know about ephedrine. It makes sense. I wonder if they injected him with ephedrine and he had no clue about it.
I do not know why he didn't call 911 himself? Maybe somebody didn't let him? Why all phone lines were off in his house according dr. Murray words? It is just crazy.
 
meena76_4MJJ_4Ever said:
Yea, I'm not going there with the occult or illuminate the may be one in the same, don't know much about them.

We have powerful, greedy men who couldn't stand the idea of Michael having so much power. It's shocking the number of people who wanted to take the ATV cat from Michael.
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I don't think the occult did it either. It is not actually what I said. That is misinterpreted. The greedy powerful people involved suspected to have orchestrated MJ death sony and people like that are certainly involved/linked with TPTB. Some members of TPTB are known to use anceint religious symbols (I don't know if occult is the right word even)for communicating with eachother that is all I meant. I was trying to prove and attempting to demonstrate that I believe deepak and uri planted those drug lies in the media.


Anyway carry on, I'm looking at the rest of the info on poisoning now.
 
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