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Why do fans run down Michael's family members?

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MicHil said:
nah not haters just insensative trouble makers.
i don't see how I can respect someone who wants to spread negavity on his own board. Let me explain...
If you have nothing good to say then maybe you shoudn't when you know it will stir trouble. I know people are smart enough to know that this Forum is for the people that loves him so at times the critical posts might/can effect someone in a negative ways. therefore it will start arguements.

I got no respect for ones that comes to MJJ Forums, willingly post their critical opinions of Mike, knowing that it would make members angry/sad/hurt/etc.
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This is exactly why there are problems when there doesn't need to be. It's a board for fans of Michael Jackson, it's not Michael Jackson's board. Fans can have a multitude of opinions, they should all be respected if they are voiced respectfully and aren't outright trolling. There is a difference between spreading negativity or having an opinion that differs from popular opinion.
 
Superstition said:
This is exactly why there are problems when there doesn't need to be. It's a board for fans of Michael Jackson, it's not Michael Jackson's board. Fans can have a multitude of opinions, they should all be respected if they are voiced respectfully and aren't outright trolling. There is a difference between spreading negativity or having an opinion that differs from popular opinion.
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well true they should all be respected but it's easier said than done for me.... these days anyways.
unstable as I am, angers gets the best of me so respect is the last on my mind. obviously proves that i am not ready to be on the fan boards... :doh: haha.
 
I think it started when Michael said that his dad used to beat him and his brothers.....................

But his brothers always take their Dads side and never tell the truth!!!!......Especially Jermaine.

LaToya is a big mouth..........especially with that book she wrote.........

Nobody actually hates Rebbie or Janet..........



But you have to wonder why Michael had more trust with Elizabeth Taylor, Macaulay Culkin and some of his other friends then his own family (not including his Mother, he always trusted her).

Also....you have to wonder why Michael (and maybe Janet) was the only one(s) who was paying out for his parents expenses??????......And on top of that Joe is still not satisfied by what he and his wife are receiving!!!!.....But to be honest, there are a lot of issues with the family that revolve around money.......which is weird because Michael was all about helping others and not money!!!!!!!
 
Krshna28 said:
I think it started when Michael said that his dad used to beat him and his brothers.....................

But his brothers always take their Dads side and never tell the truth!!!!......Especially Jermaine.

LaToya is a big mouth..........especially with that book she wrote.........

Nobody actually hates Rebbie or Janet..........



But you have to wonder why Michael had more trust with Elizabeth Taylor, Macaulay Culkin and some of his other friends then his own family (not including his Mother, he always trusted her).

Also....you have to wonder why Michael (and maybe Janet) was the only one(s) who was paying out for his parents expenses??????......And on top of that Joe is still not satisfied by what he and his wife are receiving!!!!.....But to be honest, there are a lot of issues with the family that revolve around money.......which is weird because Michael was all about helping others and not money!!!!!!!
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Well, blame katherine for that. katherine called 2 press conferences to refute Mj's claims of abuse. She called 5 of her children to support her, namely, Rebbie, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine and Randy. Latoya was estranged from the family at the time and Janet was away on tour, but when janet was asked about abuse, janet said SHE HAS NEVER SEEN HER FATHER abused anyone.
All of those children have held that to that since 1993. They haven't changed.
 
Superstition said:
This is exactly why there are problems when there doesn't need to be. It's a board for fans of Michael Jackson, it's not Michael Jackson's board. Fans can have a multitude of opinions, they should all be respected if they are voiced respectfully and aren't outright trolling. There is a difference between spreading negativity or having an opinion that differs from popular opinion.
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Thank you for saying this, you put my feelings into words quite well.:flowers:
 
Datsymay said:
Well, blame katherine for that. katherine called 2 press conferences to refute Mj's claims of abuse. She called 5 of her children to support her, namely, Rebbie, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine and Randy. Latoya was estranged from the family at the time and Janet was away on tour, but when janet was asked about abuse, janet said SHE HAS NEVER SEEN HER FATHER abused anyone.
All of those children have held that to that since 1993. They haven't changed.
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I have never heard MJ say he was "abused". He recollected memories of Joe's form of discipline of which MJ never approved of.

And why did MJ include Joe's segment on "The footage you were never meant to see" where Joe and the family are clearly seen refuting claims of abuse? Remind you this was MJ's take, which was clearly the opposite of the "abused" portait that Bashir tried to portray to the audience.

I mean, would you say that MJ sees Liz Taylor as "abusive" because he did not agree with her philosophy of using "the rod"? No.
 
MJJ7777 said:
I have never heard MJ say he was "abused". He recollected memories of Joe's form of discipline of which MJ never approved of.

And why did MJ include Joe's segment on "The footage you were never meant to see" where Joe and the family are clearly seen refuting claims of abuse? Remind you this was MJ's take, which was clearly the opposite of the "abused" portait that Bashir tried to portray to the audience.

I mean, would you say that MJ sees Liz Taylor as "abusive" because he did not agree with her philosophy of using "the rod"? No.
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When you get beat by a parent as much as Michael said he did......that goes down as abuse in my book!!!!!!!!
 
Krshna28 said:
When you get beat by a parent as much as Michael said he did......that goes down as abuse in my book!!!!!!!!
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Of course it is abuse in our book, but the point is that MJ himself never said he was "abused", just like everyone else in the family said they were never "abused". We took it that way. Abuse to one person isn't abuse to someone else and vice versa. This whole thing was not dealing with wether or not MJ was abused, the question is did he ever say he was "abused" using the term or ever viewed himself that way. I mean sure he said he hated Joe when he was younger but that's where he ends it.

So people can't use the argument that his family made MJ out to look like a liar by denying "abuse". This is in relation to the post that I quoted, please connect the dots before going all ape crazy on what I said.

Geeez, It's like some people read a sentence that jumps out and completely forget to read into the context.

I hope you get the point I am so desperately trying to make here.:doh:

It's not like I am saying MJ wasn't abused, because to me he was in several ways that might have even been worse than the beatings. But this whole issue tends to turn into a culture clash debate sooo just leave it alone for now.
 
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Michael has on a few interviews, gone in into details of how severely he was beaten by Joe. Clearly, these beatings had an impact on him and sounds like abuse to me. If you listenend to the Rabbi's tapes, Michael said that he hated Joe for the beatings he got.
 
Wow some of yall try to make it seem like expressing disappointment and anger about some family members is "bashing". I say what I feel and call a spade a spade, period. And it's mostly about Joe Jackson and Jermaine Jackson and they did the kind of things that make my blood boil. The kind of things I don't even wanna list cuz that will make my blood pressure go up on this Christmas day. The kind of things they think they can get away with under that convenient, popular phrases like, "Blood is thicker than water" or "We're one big happy family no matter what." Oh please.

Family itself is not some perfect setting that automatically protects every member in it. It's the people within the structure that decides the dynamics that cause happiness or sadness or even tragedy. Due to the common belief or fantasy about the sanctity of family, abuse within family gets swept under the rug so many times. It makes some say "It can't be abuse. Must be something else that gives you such impression. They're family, they love each other no matter what."
I know this view can explain the mindset of some of those who still believe it was just a healthy dose of discipline from a strict father who shows no emotions.
If you come from a more or less normal family, it ain't easy for you to notice the biggest horror can happen within your own family sometimes. It's supposed to be all about love despite all the problems and conflicts, but when it's not the case, then it becomes the biggest horror you'll ever experience in your life. It all boils down to specific people within a family and their actions and words no matter how hard you try to stick to the fantasy about the security of family.
 
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MJJ7777 said:
Of course it is abuse in our book, but the point is that MJ himself never said he was "abused", just like everyone else in the family said they were never "abused". We took it that way. Abuse to one person isn't abuse to someone else and vice versa. This whole thing was not dealing with wether or not MJ was abused, the question is did he ever say he was "abused" using the term or ever viewed himself that way. I mean sure he said he hated Joe when he was younger but that's where he ends it.

So people can't use the argument that his family made MJ out to look like a liar by denying "abuse". This is in relation to the post that I quoted, please connect the dots before going all ape crazy on what I said.

Geeez, It's like some people read a sentence that jumps out and completely forget to read into the context.

I hope you get the point I am so desperately trying to make here.:doh:

It's not like I am saying MJ wasn't abused, because to me he was in several ways that might have even been worse than the beatings. But this whole issue tends to turn into a culture clash debate sooo just leave it alone for now.
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He did briefly mention "abuse" by indirectly pointing to the fact that he was abused. Remember? In LWMJ, he said "The abused abuse? No that's not true" and then added he never laid a finger on his children. I don't know about others, but I believe he wanted to make it clear that he didn't treat his kids the way Joe Jackson treated him becuz many people take it as a gospel that "the abused abuse and the vicious circle will keep on happening." Who do you think he referred to by "the abused"?

He tried his best not to diss his family in front of the camera, but he did express how he felt. When you get hurt like that, you cannot just act like everything is fine cuz it will kill you inside. The fact that he showed his feelings like that even though he tried to protect his family from the media, that speaks volumes about the depth of his struggles, ain't it? I feel what he said about the beatings and hurt is just a tip of the iceberg.
 
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helena22 said:
He did briefly mention "abuse" by indirectly pointing to the fact that he was abused. Remember? In LWMJ, he said "The abused abuse? No that's not true" and then added he never laid a finger on his children. I don't know about others, but I believe he wanted to make it clear that he didn't treat his kids the way Joe Jackson treated him becuz many people take it as a gospel that "the abused abuse and the vicious circle will keep on happening." Who do you think he referred to by "the abused"?

He tried his best not to diss his family in front of the camera, but he did express how he felt. When you get hurt like that, you cannot just act like everything is fine cuz it will kill you inside. The fact that he showed his feelings like that even though he tried to protect his family from the media, that speaks volumes about the depth of his struggles, ain't it? I feel what he said about the beatings and hurt is just a tip of the iceberg.
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Exactly.......

He would never insult people on TV..........apart from Tommy Mottola, and Sneddon and a few others......but he was pushed too far on those occasions!!!!!

He usually wasn't that type of person..............

He was too good for this horrible world!!!!!!!!
 
helena22 said:
He did briefly mention "abuse" by indirectly pointing to the fact that he was abused. Remember? In LWMJ, he said "The abused abuse? No that's not true" and then added he never laid a finger on his children. I don't know about others, but I believe he wanted to make it clear that he didn't treat his kids the way Joe Jackson treated him becuz many people take it as a gospel that "the abused abuse and the vicious circle will keep on happening." Who do you think he referred to by "the abused"?

He tried his best not to diss his family in front of the camera, but he did express how he felt. When you get hurt like that, you cannot just act like everything is fine cuz it will kill you inside. The fact that he showed his feelings like that even though he tried to protect his family from the media, that speaks volumes about the depth of his struggles, ain't it? I feel what he said about the beatings and hurt is just a tip of the iceberg.
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Once again, trying to build something out of nothing. That's your interpretation of his words. I have yet to hear MJ say he was "abused". Abuse is a very strong and broad word. There is physical, mental, and sexual abuse. IDK. Everyone has their own defintion of abuse. Depends on how you were raised and/or your personality. Like I've said a thousand times before, I am very sensitive to what MJ's gone through in life. But if he doesn't say he was "abused" then I'll leave it at that. I grew up in a house of extreme discipline. I got whooped out of breath for striking the wrong key on the piano during practice. Is that how I am going to deal with my children? No. Never. There are better ways of doing it. But whoopens and spankings maybe the only method that a person's accustomed to "disciplining", they might have known nothing else. But I'm not going to classify that as abuse. If you want to, you can because that's you.

Anyways, like I said before, This was never about wether or not MJ was abused, because that's a discussion for another day. I was trying to point out that the family never discredited MJ by saying they were never "abused" because MJ himself NEVER said him or anyone else was "abused". Was it MJ being considerate of his family and how they would be percieved by the public? Maybe. I mean using MJ's rebuttal for LWMJ, why in the world would he put a segment with Joe and everyone else saying that Bashir wrongly made him out to look like an evil man who abused his children?! Why would MJ do that? Can you please answer that?! I am still dumbfounded as to why MJ wanted to make it clear that his father was not the abuser Bashir wanted to portray in his twist of the documentary.

I just want to know why MJ felt the need to portray his father in a completely different way from the way that Bashir did. I'd like to hear an interpretation because I am still confused by that move.

We can say MJ was just being "Nice". Right?

The truth is that people will argue as to wether he was abused or not but Michael himself never said he was "abused". And that's the truth and that's the point I was trying to make which is quite valid with evidence.
 
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I think sometimes for some they love Michael so much and so loyal that they are protective of him even from own his family. I don't always agree with what certain family members do but I believe they are grieving and torn up about Michael's death. He was a part of all of them and that's gone now. There is always going to be this void in their lives and it's never going to be the same.
 
In the recordings of the Moonwalk biography with the ghost writer he said he was abused but added ''please dont write that'' thats how he was.. some people should go by his example instead of bashing him. And making him look like a deluded liar for their own gain.
 
snowhite said:
we're not allowed to bash the Jacksons but don't bash Michael either saying he was a crazy lunatic who had no idea what the hell he was doing with his life that's tabloid trash mentality is that were you take your information from? some of you are more janet or jacksons fans and have that "michael did it to himself" mentality. don't you think the crap we get daily from the media and basically the outside world is more than enough?
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Amen!
 
twinklEE said:
In the recordings of the Moonwalk biography with the ghost writer he said he was abused but added ''please dont write that'' thats how he was.. some people should go by his example instead of bashing him. And making him look like a deluded liar for their own gain.
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Is there anywhere we could listen to those recordings?

I'd like to hear it for myself, not that it changes anything because MJ has never publicly said he was "abused".
 
I always saw that Michael was careful in how he talked about his father. He loved his father but whatever Joe did to him as a child really affected him. I never heard him say abuse but you could see in his eyes the fear and pain of it when talking about it. Maybe to the other brothers they didn't think it was so bad but Michael had the right to feel how he did too.
 
twinklEE said:
Here you go, listen to the audio

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/510977/Hear-secret-Michael-Jackson-tapes.html

Of course..
He didn't because he had the dignity NO TO bash people publicly he was a dignified man, something not everyone is.
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Thank you for the link. And yes I heard it. But obviously this was not meant to be any of our business, especially his genuine and private thoughts about his family.

But I agree with your latter sentence, maybe everyone including fans can learn a lesson or two from MJ too when it comes to blind bashing.

Marebare- I agree with you. MJ indeed was the most sensitive, so what Joe did during those times really affected him the most because the other siblings don't seem to trouble themselves with this as much.
 
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unfortunately, i don't have the complete Oprah interview, but i clearly remember MJ saying something about how his father treated him, that warranted, apparently, in his mind, that he felt the need to say..'Sorry, Joseph'. he said that, because he made a confession about how he was treated by his father, that would most likely result in people not seeing his father in a good light. there's also the fact that MJ did say that he would regurgitate, whenever his father came into a room with him. and his father was quoted as saying 'well, he regurgitated all the way to the bank.' and, in his Oxford speech, MJ spoke(at least he uttered words..don't know what he was thinking) about 'forgiving, his father'. now, unless MJ felt that his father did something very wrong to him, i would think that there was no need to forgive him.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...ael+jackson+oxford+speech&fp=52e8f388e5caca67


apparently, some of us will see things from MJ's take...and other fans will see things from the other brothers' take.

there are so many ways for someone to say they were abused, without using the actual word. there are many of us who believe he was abused, and we believe we showed the evidence. and there, apparently, are others who do not believe he was abused, and they say they have what they believe is evidence. i guess one side will have to disagree with the others, just as Michael has a different thing to say, than his brothers. it is my hope, that there is not a spirit of feeling that what MJ said, somehow has less validity, just because he was more sensitive.
 
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MJJ7777 said:
Thank you for the link. And yes I heard it. But obviously this was not meant to be any of our business, especially his genuine and private thoughts about his family.

But I agree with your latter sentence, maybe everyone including fans can learn a lesson or two from MJ too when it comes to blind bashing.

Marebare- I agree with you. MJ indeed was the most sensitive, so what Joe did during those times really affected him the most because the other siblings don't seem to trouble themselves with this as much.
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I agree fans and family members could learn a lesson or two from MJ.
As for the brothers Marlon was on record in the 80s saying he would never treat his children the way Joseph treated them. When he sold his interview to the British tabloids (one day before Michael's burial) he too admitted Joseph's vile and abusive behavior. Somehow his opinion seems to have changed between now and August (for the sake of the Dynasty series), I can't explain his sudden change of heart otherwise.
Michael was also on record describing how Joseph would strip them down, oil them up and then beat them. To me that is abuse but maybe to you/and/or others it's a form of showing 'love'?
Although I'm sure that every Joe Jackson defender would be hesitant, to show 'love' this way.
But let's agree to disagree, as some would never agree with what I have said anyways, despite knowing that's the truth.
 
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I think the brothers either don't think it was that bad or they do but publically don't want to say that. I remember the Oprah interview too and Michael was scared talking about it and did apologize to his father. I actually believe if Janet said she saw nothing because she was just a baby when her brothers became famous. They were busy recording and touring and Joe was with them. Her experience was probably a lot different. I just know that my heart hurts for Michael when I see him talk about it because he was so hurt by it. The pain and fear in his eyes was real.
 
twinklEE said:
I agree fans and family members could learn a lesson or two from MJ.
As for the brothers Marlon was on record in the 80s saying he would never treat his children the way Joseph treated them. When he sold his interview to the British tabloids (one day before Michael's burial) he too admitted Joseph's vile and abusive behavior. Somehow his opinion seems to have changed (for the sake of the Dynasty series), I can't explain his sudden change of heart otherwise.
Michael was also on record describing how Joseph would strip them down, oil them up and then beat them. To me that is abuse but maybe to you/and/or others that is a form of showing 'love'?
Although I'm sure that every Joe Jackson defender would be hesitant, to show 'love' this way.
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Yeah,well Marlon wasn't as adamant about the whole thing as MJ was. Opinions do change over time. Maybe he grew to appreciate some things because as I can remember on Larry King, he said something to the effect that all the neighborhood kids they grew up with died under terrible cirucmstances.

But yeah, the idea of slicking a child down with oil to beat them never sat well with me either.:no: I honestly don't know why Joe did some of the things he did. But despite all that as crazy as it seems, I feel as if he meant well. It's not like he hindered his children from being the best they could be.
I simply see Joseph as a man that wanted perfection but went about achieving that the only way he knew for a man of his time.
I mean, wasn't there a time when people who weren't even slightly related to you could give you a beating for any wrongdoing on your part simply because everyone who lived on a block where so close-knit?
Wasn't there a time when teachers and instructors had more than a grant to physically discipline children they thought to be unruly in class?

It's unthinkable now that we've got child advocate laws and the ever so popular, lawsuits.

Times are changing. Accept the past and adjust to the present.
 
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MJJ7777 said:
Yeah,well Marlon wasn't as adamant about the whole thing as MJ was. Opinions do change over time. Maybe he grew to appreciate some things because as I can remember on Larry King, he said something to the effect that all the neighborhood kids they grew up with died under terrible cirucmstances.

But yeah, the idea of slicking a child down with oil to beat them never sat well with me either.:no: I honestly don't know why Joe did some of the things he did. But despite all that as crazy as it seems, I feel as if he meant well. It's not like he hindered his children from being the best they could be.
I simply see Joseph as a man that wanted perfection but went about achieving that the only way he knew for a man of his time.
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there are many men of his time, who didn't do that. i personally think time isn't an issue. i'm glad Michael made it as big as he did, but like Michael said, the talent was already in him, God given. so i don't believe MJ made it big, because he was beaten, or abused. MJ made it big, because MJ already had the drive inside of him. so i can't give his father credit for his success. that's not me bashing his father...that's me separating Michael's drive, from his father's treatment of him. i'd like to think that i should set barriers on how i raise a child, and not give myself an excuse to do things, any old way i want to, because i'm afraid my child won't be successful if i don't go overboard on him.
 
MJJ7777 said:
Yeah,well Marlon wasn't as adamant about the whole thing as MJ was. Opinions do change over time. Maybe he grew to appreciate some things because as I can remember on Larry King, he said something to the effect that all the neighborhood kids they grew up with died under terrible cirucmstances.

But yeah, the idea of slicking a child down with oil to beat them never sat well with me either.:no: I honestly don't know why Joe did some of the things he did. But despite all that as crazy as it seems, I feel as if he meant well. It's not like he hindered his children from being the best they could be.
I simply see Joseph as a man that wanted perfection but went about achieving that the only way he knew for a man of his time.
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So in your opinion, Marlon's opinion changed as drastically as it did in such a short time? In late August Marlon went on record saying Joseph beat them a lot and he felt resentful toward him, and then he changed his opinion to ''Nothing happened, my dad a cool dude'' in early December? It just happened like that? You think he grew to appreciate and understand it within 3 months? :blink:

I don't see the need to sugarcoat Joseph Jackson's actions, he was an abuser period. And I'm not bashing the man, but stating facts. I wonder if the same posters would jump to defend Michael, if Michael had been the abusive one not Joe? Quiet frankly, I don't think so.
 
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vncwilliam said:
there are many men of his time, who didn't do that. i personally think time isn't an issue. i'm glad Michael made it as big as he did, but like Michael said, the talent was already in him, God given. so i don't believe MJ made it big, because he was beaten, or abused. MJ made it big, because MJ already had the drive inside of him. so i can't give his father credit for his success. that's not me bashing his father...that's me separating Michael's drive, from his father's treatment of him. i'd like to think that i should set barriers on how i raise a child, and not give myself an excuse to do things, any old way i want to, because i'm afraid my child won't be successful if i don't go overboard on him.
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In my opinion Michael should be given extra credit for making it as big as he did, and being such a compassionate person he was, because some abused turn out whole differently, some even go postal. Abuse themselves. Michael should be given credit for that, instead, people are bashing him for being courageous enough to come out and state the truth SMH
 
twinklEE said:
So in your opinion Marlon's opinion changed as drastically as it did in such a short time? In late August Marlon went on record saying Joseph beat them a lot and he felt resentful toward him and then he changed his opinion to ''Nothing happened, my dad a cool dude'' in early December? It just happened like that? You think he grew to appreciate and understand it within 3 months? :blink:

I don't see the need to sugarcoat Joseph Jackson's actions, he was an abuser period. And I'm not bashing the man but stating facts. I wonder if the same posters would jump to defend Michael, if Michael had been abusive toward his own children? I don't think so quiet frankly.
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i reeeeallllllllllllllllllly don't think so either. somehow, Michael IS the poster child for being put on megablast, more than anyone, and tempered support, more than anyone. and big brother monitoring of expressing positivity toward him, more than anyone.
 
vncwilliam said:
there are many men of his time, who didn't do that. i personally think time isn't an issue. i'm glad Michael made it as big as he did, but like Michael said, the talent was already in him, God given. so i don't believe MJ made it big, because he was beaten, or abused. MJ made it big, because MJ already had the drive inside of him. so i can't give his father credit for his success. that's not me bashing his father...that's me separating Michael's drive, from his father's treatment of him. i'd like to think that i should set barriers on how i raise a child, and not give myself an excuse to do things, any old way i want to, because i'm afraid my child won't be successful if i don't go overboard on him.
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You don't have to give Joe any credit. I will though. There's no child that could have made it on their own in that business, especially during the times that weren't favorable for certain ethnic groups around America. Yes, you are right, MJ had the drive. He credited God for his gift but he also gave due credit where it belonged. Just as it was a slip of a tongue for him to say he was abused. He also said that Joe helped him to cultivate his talent too.
 
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