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Medical experts opinions about the case and medical information

Justthefacts

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Please do not turn this into a conspiracy/they should to this or that thread. If it turns into that I will delete it and ask for it to be closed. A few weeks ago a friend of mine wrote the numbers down I gave to her in the tox report. She told me she had a friend who is a nurse and she would show her friend the numbers and ask her opinion. Well today I got a call from my friend turns out she had dinner with this friend last night and showed her the numbers I wrote down for her. And her friend the nurse said some interesting things. Number one and this is something we all knew since day one Michael had what she called a ridiculous amount of Propofol in his system way more then the 25 milligrams Murray said he gave. Two she said in a hospital Propofol is usually given like this a person is sedated and ventilated because in a hospital a person is given a bolus injection so they can stop breathing and the machine takes over breathing for them. And through the surgery the Propofol is dripped slowly to keep the person out. The idea is to put the person out as fast as they can so they can do the surgery. She said in her opinion Murray gave Michael Propofol this way because that is how it is done in a hospital but unlike a hospital he did not have the proper equipment to ventilate Michael or the equipment to get Michael breathing again when he stopped. Remember in the hospital the idea is to stop the person from breathing on there own hence why they are hooked up breathing machines and sedated. Now if the purpose was for Michael to sleep a slow drip would have slowly put Michael to sleep and when it was turned off he would have woke up. Just like we all thought was being done but we have since learned it was not. Third did anyone find it strange that Lorazepam was found in Michael's heart blood and Femoral blood and no place else? So did the nurse she feels that Murray either gave Michael the Propofol and soon afterwards gave him the Lorazepam or gave it to him to him with the Propofol because the Lorazepam seems to have gone to his heart and went no place because either his heart could not move it because he was not breathing or Michael was already dead when he gave it to him. Or the Lorazepam stopped his heart while the Propofol stopped his breathing. She said it seems that Murray just said oh well I am a doctor I can do it. And she said Michael died within seconds. Now I am sure someone will come here and disagree with me but this is what I have learned and I wanted to share
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Justthefacts said:
Please do not turn this into a conspiracy/they should to this or that thread. If it turns into that I will delete it and ask for it to be closed. A few weeks ago a friend of mine wrote the numbers down I gave to her in the tox report. She told me she had a friend who is a nurse and she would show her friend the numbers and ask her opinion. Well today I got a call from my friend turns out she had dinner with this friend last night and showed her the numbers I wrote down for her. And her friend the nurse said some interesting things. Number one and this is something we all knew since day one Michael had what she called a ridiculous amount of Propofol in his system way more then the 25 milligrams Murray said he gave. Two she said in a hospital Propofol is usually given like this a person is sedated and ventilated because in a hospital a person is given a bolus injection so they can stop breathing and the machine takes over breathing for them. And through the surgery the Propofol is dripped slowly to keep the person out. The idea is to put the person out as fast as they can so they can do the surgery. She said in her opinion Murray gave Michael Propofol this way because that is how it is done in a hospital but unlike a hospital he did not have the proper equipment to ventilate Michael or the equipment to get Michael breathing again when he stopped. Remember in the hospital the idea is to stop the person from breathing on there own hence why they are hooked up breathing machines and sedated. Now if the purpose was for Michael to sleep a slow drip would have slowly put Michael to sleep and when it was turned off he would have woke up. Just like we all thought was being done but we have since learned it was not. Third did anyone find it strange that Lorazepam was found in Michael's heart blood and Femoral blood and no place else? So did the nurse she feels that Murray either gave Michael the Propofol and soon afterwards gave him the Lorazepam or gave it to him to him with the Propofol because the Lorazepam seems to have gone to his heart and went no place because either his heart could not move it because he was not breathing or Michael was already dead when he gave it to him. Or the Lorazepam stopped his heart while the Propofol stopped his breathing. She said it seems that Murray just said oh well I am a doctor I can do it. And she said Michael died within seconds. Now I am sure someone will come here and disagree with me but this is what I have learned and I wanted to share
Click to expand...

I agree with this...I'm a nurse too, and it makes sense....
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I am not a nurse but what you said makes perfect sense. To find that amount of propofol means that Murray gave him MORE Amount than what was said. I dont now anything about medical things but I know that it takes a scheming and stupid person to do this much damage to a person and to the world.


Thanks Justthefacts...For sharing your thought! :)



L.O.V.E.
Romi


 
Re: What a nurse thinks

i hope it's true because i wish he didnt know anything and didnt suspect anything and didnt suffer. i hope so. thank you for sharing
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

The trial is going to have a lot of medical accounts such as this one and medical professionals giving their expert opinion. What seems to be the overwhelming opinion is that Murray pretty much killed Michael in seconds and was lying about the propofol. My mum's an auxillary nurse so she's had proper first aid training. She has always said to me that Murray doing CPR on the bed shows that he knew Michael was already dead as everyone knows that you immediatly put the person on the floor. Its pointless on a bed as all you're doing is pushing the matress down showing that a) Michael was already dead or 2) Murray did not want to save him.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

This makes sense. But everything Murray has said does not make any sense at all. And I find it strange that everythig about the timeline, his actions, and the fact that he was/ is a cardeologist with knowledge about what his actions could cause just does not make sense. Even with dollar signs in his eyes, and money trouble it does not make sense to take the kind of risks he apparently did.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

thanks for this. pretty much goes with everything that has been said on here.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Michael died in seconds of being given the propofol? Why on earth would Murray give Michael the Lorazepam at that time? And it hardly gives Murray time to get up and go to the bathroom. He would of seen that Michael was gone/not breathing before he even got up... :(
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

hes changed his story since then he now claims he was on the phone to his GF but since mj went within seconds/minutes he will have to change his story again. theres no way he claim he was giving mj the diprivan while sat on the phone talking. and seeing as he claims mj was begging aswell. what while he was yacking away to numerous ppl? dont think so
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I want that man to go to hell and rot there, excuse my language mods.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

thanks for sharing... I do hope Michael didn't feel any pain nor realized what was happening to him. I hope that he just fell asleep and didn't feel anything.

I also hope that Murray will never find peace.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I am sure Michael was unaware of what was happening.

He had an IV line in his leg and if Dr. Murray did not 'flush' the line before he gave the last dose of medication and he then gave the Propofol through that line, it was too much leftover drug, which I believe was the Lorazepam. It appears he gave too much Propofol and then with the added Lorazepam it was just too much.

We also don't know how soon after this happened that Dr Murray found him not breathing. The time line is very screwed up and has been from the beginning.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

sloride said:
The trial is going to have a lot of medical accounts such as this one and medical professionals giving their expert opinion. What seems to be the overwhelming opinion is that Murray pretty much killed Michael in seconds and was lying about the propofol. My mum's an auxillary nurse so she's had proper first aid training. She has always said to me that Murray doing CPR on the bed shows that he knew Michael was already dead as everyone knows that you immediatly put the person on the floor. Its pointless on a bed as all you're doing is pushing the matress down showing that a) Michael was already dead or 2) Murray did not want to save him.
Click to expand...


That seems true. Murray knew exactly what he should do to save Michael, but he already didnt want to... That was not involuntary manslaughter and everyone know that.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

lulu said:
That seems true. Murray knew exactly what he should do to save Michael, but he already didnt want to... That was not involuntary manslaughter and everyone know that.
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I don't know that.

I do believe Murray is guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter; meaning, I don't believe his intention was to kill Michael. From all the information we have now I can not say with certainty the outcome would have been any different if Michael had gotten to the hospital sooner. I just don't know.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Beachlover said:
I don't know that.

I do believe Murray is guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter; meaning, I don't believe his intention was to kill Michael. From all the information we have now I can not say with certainty the outcome would have been any different if Michael had gotten to the hospital sooner. I just don't know.
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Ok, maybe I said too much, sorry, we don`t know nothing for sure. But I`m so mad, about this whole situation. I`m so confused. Too many informations, hoax teories and I just don`t know what to think.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Thankyou for posting that, it makes sense.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

lulu said:
Ok, maybe I said too much, sorry, we don`t know nothing for sure. But I`m so mad, about this whole situation. I`m so confused. Too many informations, hoax teories and I just don`t know what to think.
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That is totally true. Too much information being thrown at us at once and its hard to know what is Tabloid Junk or what is true. It is hard to know if even fans that are posting are just spinning their side of a story or actually telling what is fact and true.

I read just about most things, even the hoaxes because I want to know what is on peoples minds, though to be honest, I often come away from things thinking that people are mindless, blind followers at times.

I am not so much mad as sad, knowing that this did not have to happen in the first place.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Murray gave Michael the lethal amount of propofol and the other sedatives that where found.
Then he left Michael alone for way longer than 2 minutes to do some calls to other clients or to go *&^his prostitute.
When he came back, Michael was already dead for a long time so he started to cover things up.
He gave him fake cpr, breaking his ribbs to make it look real.
Then he took the tapes from the securitycamera and put it with the other evidence in boxes to have it picked up by somebody he knew.
When everything was said and done he called 911, that's why it took him so long to call them.

It seems so simple, yet so hard to prove.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Thanks for posting, and for taking the time to get these responses from the nurse. That makes a lot of sense. Especially the part where she thought "Michael died within seconds." That seems accurate, given what we know of the tox reports. So I wonder how many seconds it took Murray to get to the door, or the door to the bathroom? Surely a trained cardiologist would know how to identify that a person has stopped breathing? And that respiratory depression was a side-effect of the medications he gave? This is a man who graduated from medical school and ran a successful cardiology practice. It's not like he has a long trail of mess-ups in his past?

So if Michael died within seconds, where was Murray during those seconds?

Please thank your friend for us. This is very useful.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I am not a nurse but from what I have read propofol works fast and if it is going to cause depressed respiration and heart rate that happens very quickly after the drug is given.

Murrey is either the most wreckless doctor on earth or he was, or will be paid for doing this. Either way he should not be allowed to practice.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I agree with what the nurse said and I've done a little digging re lorazepam.

According to the FDA in relation to IV lorazepam:

"A 4-mg dose provides an initial concentration of approximately 70 ng/mL."

And in relation to IM lorazepam:

"A 4-mg dose provides a Cmax of approximately 48 ng/mL. " NB Cmax is peak plasma level.

Tablets give a way lower plasma level than this.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/ativan.html

Michael was found to have 169ng/ml. For so long I've been concentrating on just the propofol, and it's true that he appears to have been given a lot more than 25mg, but now it appears the lorazepam is just as important. WTF dose did Murray give? By my reckoning it is more like 10mg of lorazepam that was given.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Thank you for the thread..please thank you friend also....My piece of mind.....Michael didn't suffer...he went to sleep peacefully....We all know Murray is a liar he has changed his time line way to many times....even with his timeline changes..we here on this board have already figured out that Michael died before Murray says he did.....We have some smart folks here on this board....If Murray was half as smart.... Michael would still be with us.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

mier said:
He gave him fake cpr, breaking his ribbs to make it look real.
Then he took the tapes from the securitycamera and put it with the other evidence in boxes to have it picked up by somebody he knew.
When everything was said and done he called 911, that's why it took him so long to call them.

It seems so simple, yet so hard to prove.
Click to expand...

I didn't know about this. Seriously, can someone get on the job and subpoena this person who Murray called to take the tapes. :mat:
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Murray is trapped how can he explain how he gave an overdose of TWO drugs, not one but TWO? How can he explain how anyone who had received that much lorazepam still needed propofol to sleep? And how can this not be, in the very least, a wreckless disregard for human life ie 2nd degree murder?
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Because the patient was Michael Jackson --druggie And the wonderful doctor who made a terrible mistake Murray. Oh, he didn't mean to do it.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

mier said:
Murray gave Michael the lethal amount of propofol and the other sedatives that where found.
Then he left Michael alone for way longer than 2 minutes to do some calls to other clients or to go *&^his prostitute.
When he came back, Michael was already dead for a long time so he started to cover things up.
He gave him fake cpr, breaking his ribbs to make it look real.
Then he took the tapes from the securitycamera and put it with the other evidence in boxes to have it picked up by somebody he knew.
When everything was said and done he called 911, that's why it took him so long to call them.

It seems so simple, yet so hard to prove.
Click to expand...

CPR was given by many people. We don't know who broke the ribs but I will make a guess that doing CPR in a moving vehicle is not easy.

What do you mean Murray took tapes from a security camera? Have you any proof of this? There was 'talk' about security by members here, but we don't actually KNOW what was in the house. People are ASSUMING that.

First of all, what boxes did he have picked up by someone he knew in California? He did all of that with the fans outside watching everything? I don't think so.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I cannot quote someone on here. Please don't quote me. Everyone knows my post.

It is not 2nd because, Michael is a druggie and Murray is a wonderful Dr. who made a mistake and the patient asked for it. that is my opinion why it is not second.
 
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