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july 23, 2009 Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I believe there is a storm coming if this keeps up. If the investigation momentum continues where it appears to be going and more people get looked at, eventually they're going to get all in a sweat to tell what they know about who, what, where and how. It's not going to be pretty.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

CherubimII said:
It is my opinion that Dr. Conrad Murray was paid by powerful record industry people to murder
Michael Jackson. I want the police and the Feds to keep the pressure on Dr. Murray until he "sings like a bird".
They should remind Dr. Murray that not all Michael Jackson incarcerated fans are in prisons in the Philippines. Some of Michael Jackson's incarcerated fans are in American prisons.

To solve a murder, always follow the money:
Click and watch what Michael Jackson had to say
about his record company:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZgShEbWM8&feature=related
Click to expand...

lol...I love it.......this was my thought also..lmao
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Well, guess who the doctor may have been who performed the physicals on Michael for AEG? Dr. Murray. That's right....they just said it on Nancy Grace.

If this is true, then this whole thing is crazy to me.
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I don't think Nancy Grace is a reliable source somehow.

The doctor who performed the physicals for the insurers would have been the insurer's doctor. They're not going to underwrite a policy worth millions on the say-so of a doctor they don't know.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

ell, guess who the doctor may have been who performed the physicals on Michael for AEG? Dr. Murray. That's right....they just said it on Nancy Grace.

If this is true, then this whole thing is crazy to me.
Click to expand...

i doubt that. the insurers would use their own doctor or aleast a unbaised one
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

music65 said:
Why didn't this doctor say no to Michael (about the diprovan)? Could not see that he was throwing his life and Michael's life away?
Click to expand...

How do you even know that Michael himself specifically asked for Diprovan?

He may have innocently asked for something to relieve his insomnia and the doc gave it to him without Michael questioning it fully.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

is it New York or is it California ... when my mother-in-law died (in our house) until it was clearly decided what the cause of death was, there was clear suspicion from the investagators that I could have killed her. The woman was on countless meds, received Dialysis three times a week, skinny as a anorexic, had an artificial heart that was beeping as she lay there dead ... half the medics and police had been to our house numerous times before. Here condition was well documented, yet I was still looked at as a possible cause for her death.

It baffles me why the same did not apply to Michael Jackson ??

That was my children's Nanna, I was her 'son-in-law' and the authorities knew of her health situation...their was clear history amongst us. Michael was dead with his employee as the one in my place, why no suspicion ??

Is that to do with differences in New York and California police procedures ??

One more thing that does not add up to me *shrug*
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

MJJChichi said:
is it New York or is it California ... when my mother-in-law died (in our house) until it was clearly decided what the cause of death was, there was clear suspicion from the investagators that I could have killed her. The woman was on countless meds, received Dialysis three times a week, skinny as a anorexic, had an artificial heart that was beeping as she lay there dead ... half the medics and police had been to our house numerous times before. Here condition was well documented, yet I was still looked at as a possible cause for her death.

It baffles me why the same did not apply to Michael Jackson ??

That was my children's Nanna, I was her 'son-in-law' and the authorities knew of her health situation...their was clear history amongst us. Michael was dead with his employee as the one in my place, why no suspicion ??

Is that to do with differences in New York and California police procedures ??

One more thing that does not add up to me *shrug*
Click to expand...


oh Chi Chi so sorry to hear about your grandmother; both mine passed away too! My Dad's mom passed away with a full house of people but she was in the room alone. The reason why she passed was jacked but there was a difference she passes cause she was doing illegal drugs that one of her daughters gave her and had a heart attack. She had done drugs years before and with them. Don't know who got her hooked on them but none of the daughters got questioned in that house either. She lived in MD. With MD they just don't care I believe..don't know..lol. They lazy and don't want to work.

The LAPD figured it was Michael Jackson (oh he is addicted to pain killers, he's weak, he is sick, he is all this). So they did not assume the Doctor did it cause they believe MJ to be this loo loo. I know it sounds messed up but they prejudged him and thought he took him on self out or was at fault.

They should have shut that dang on house down from the Jump! Questioned Murray and did the search warrants! (me daddy the DC police) but every place different. Especially cause there was so much evidence at the scene already! Or did Murray throw away the IV drips and stuff before he called 911? or went back after he left the hospital? When did the Police go back to the house?

Just the laziness of LAPD who prejudged Michael. I'm glad the DEA stepped in. The LAPD was trying to take MJ down a few years ago. Do you really expect them to help when it comes to MJ? now they might but from the jump? no.:no:
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Oh my, this is so bad.
Murray is going to be killed for this before he can open his mouth.
The media is going to say he's been killed by a crazy fan, but we all know the real reason.
I've said this before in another topic, but this is what I think is going to happen.

If they can get somebody to kill Michael, they sure as hell can find somebody to kill Murray
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

MJJChichi said:
is it New York or is it California ... when my mother-in-law died (in our house) until it was clearly decided what the cause of death was, there was clear suspicion from the investagators that I could have killed her. The woman was on countless meds, received Dialysis three times a week, skinny as a anorexic, had an artificial heart that was beeping as she lay there dead ... half the medics and police had been to our house numerous times before. Here condition was well documented, yet I was still looked at as a possible cause for her death.

It baffles me why the same did not apply to Michael Jackson ??

That was my children's Nanna, I was her 'son-in-law' and the authorities knew of her health situation...their was clear history amongst us. Michael was dead with his employee as the one in my place, why no suspicion ??

Is that to do with differences in New York and California police procedures ??

One more thing that does not add up to me *shrug*
Click to expand...

Lots of things don't add up. In this particular incidence with Michael, do you remember during the 911 call the person doing the calling said that "a" or "his" doctor was there with him, not mentioning Michael's name at any point; (would have to re-listen to the tape for the exact wording). For all the dispatcher knew, it could have been anyone "down", although I think a male was mentioned as a "he" or "him" referring to Michael. Now certainly I don't know the specifics, but when the dispatcher heard that a doctor was there, he changed his direction to some degree. It does kind of change perspective when it is stated that a physician is present and attempting resuscitation. Would it automatically be assumable at that specific point in time that a crime or negligence was involved? I certainly don't know, but looking at it from a medical/emergency standpoint, I'm not sure the 911 dispatcher would immediately think suspiciously and send along a team of police/investigator, etc.

Chi- I am so sorry for the way things were handled with your mother-in-law. I can only imagine the feelings you have about the ways things were handled in your/her situation. Why it wasn't done in Michael's case, could be a number of things, perhaps r/t how Calif/LA handle matters, a physician was present, whatever. Doesn't make it easier to swallow for you in your circumstance, or for those of us that ask what went wrong in Michael's situation.
 
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Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

if it weren't for the incompetence of Murray as a fucken trained doctor, MJ may still be here. This sucks...
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

MJJChichi said:
It baffles me why the same did not apply to Michael Jackson ??

That was my children's Nanna, I was her 'son-in-law' and the authorities knew of her health situation...their was clear history amongst us. Michael was dead with his employee as the one in my place, why no suspicion ??

Is that to do with differences in New York and California police procedures ??

One more thing that does not add up to me *shrug*
Click to expand...

yep this case was compromised from the very beginning and now were left only with hope that maybe they will find enough evidence to see what really happened...but Michael didn't get a fair chance not even in death, the whole thing is just so sad
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

CherubimII said:
Riddle me this:

Why would Michael Jackson, himself, ask for propofol or another sleep aid just a few hours before he was scheduled to return to reherseal?
We all know MJ had chronic insomnia, and he may have occassionally been prescribed some medications to help him sleep;
BUT AT NIGHT, maybe midnaight or so,
but NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY!!!

TO SOLVE A MURDER.
ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Point taken. I have thought about this myself. Why was MJ given powerful sleep medication in the daytime?
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Aengil said:
I don't think Nancy Grace is a reliable source somehow.

The doctor who performed the physicals for the insurers would have been the insurer's doctor. They're not going to underwrite a policy worth millions on the say-so of a doctor they don't know.
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that at least two independant doctors were used by the insurerers
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
I believe there is a storm coming if this keeps up. If the investigation momentum continues where it appears to be going and more people get looked at, eventually they're going to get all in a sweat to tell what they know about who, what, where and how. It's not going to be pretty.
Click to expand...

Indeed it's not gonna be pretty, but it has to happen. we need to get at the truth however hard it is.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

here's my beef...ur a cardiologist but u d on't know that cpr on a bed is wrong?
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

OK, so here is my question and hopefully someone will know the answer.

If there is no intent it is manslaughter, but if there was no intent to kill him, but the doctor did something that could kill him, and then when things went wrong and he didn't save him, is it still manslaughter? I really believe he could have done more to save Michael, so in those moments if he chose not to, does that change anything?
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Soso Deaf said:
here's my beef...ur a cardiologist but u d on't know that cpr on a bed is wrong?
Click to expand...

For real though "So So"

MJ was prob already dead so what was the need to move him to the floor right? and if Prince was in the room to witness the CPR. Murray prob figure he a kid and did not know proper procedure to CPR. But still the fact got out that he was doing it wrong!

and if he had enough time to grab prince! he had enough time to run and get staff to call the hospital. I don't buy the whole phone thing. He used that 45min or 2 hours to clean up his mess.

Also can they trace his phone and travel records to see if he sent anyone to Houston to clean up the files and stuff?

I'm also surprised there was no AED machine in the house? Since Murray was a cardiologist and this would have been valuable to have with what was being given to MJ.

AED: a portable electronic device that automatically diagnoses the potentially life threatening cardiac arrhythmias of ventricular fibrillation and ventricular tachycardia in a patient,[1] and is able to treat them through defibrillation, the application of electrical therapy which stops the arrhythmia, allowing the heart to reestablish an effective rhythm.

It let's you know when to apply CPR or to proceed with shock to jump start the heart.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

jilliebean said:
OK, so here is my question and hopefully someone will know the answer.

If there is no intent it is manslaughter, but if there was no intent to kill him, but the doctor did something that could kill him, and then when things went wrong and he didn't save him, is it still manslaughter? I really believe he could have done more to save Michael, so in those moments if he chose not to, does that change anything?
Click to expand...


Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder.
The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill, a state of mind called malice, or malice aforethought, which may involve an unintentional killing but with a willful disregard for life.
Manslaughter is usually broken down into two distinct categories: voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.


Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. Distraught, Dan heads to a local bar to drown his sorrows. After having five drinks, Dan jumps into his car and drives down the street at twice the posted speed limit, accidentally hitting and killing a pedestrian.

Or

Michael asks for diprivan under the illusion it's safe because of previous doctors crimes when they should have given him real help.
Murray gives Michael Med's he is not supposed/trained to(this breaks the law..cause he is not supposed to do this outside the hospital). The Doctor Falls asleep, walks away, or gave him too dang much(This is the recklessness).

Mike has complications and dies and the doctor freaks out to save his butt cause he tries to cover up ish (maybe?) to make it look like he did something to help Mike but did not. (This is malice aforethought) -criminal intent; the thoughts and intentions behind a wrongful act (including knowledge that the act is illegal); often at issue in murder trials.

So Basically Dr Murray will get Manslaughter charges if they can prove all that without shadow of a doubt but every state got different rules.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's unlawful to kill another human being, without malice. Voluntary manslaughter contemplates a killing that is without malice and committed upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion.(Taking 45 min to call police cause Murray try to save his own butt or he let mike die? cause afraid of being caught; you know they would ask questions and if mike dead who they gonna ask?, CPR done wrong on the bed also to make it look like he did something to help) In contrast to the felony-murder rule briefly discussed above, involuntary manslaughter contemplates a killing done in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony(Gave [/FONT]diprivan[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] to MJ but isn't this a felony if it's not done in hospital?) , or in the commission in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection, of a lawful act which might produce death.
[/FONT]
But technically Murray's act was not lawful cause he gave diprivan outside the hospital? hmmm?

So would that then make this 2nd degree murder? [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In a federal second degree murder charge to kill "with malice aforethought" means either to kill another person deliberately and intentionally, or to act with callous and wanton disregard for human life. Here, malice aforethought does not require that the individual charged hated the person killed, or felt ill will toward the victim at the time.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I tried answering your question but came upon a question myself. This is all oh so jacked what happened to MJ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I hope you can understand what I wrote and it's helpful. I know it's long but wanted to get everything in there.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God Bless:angel:
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

a willful disreguard for life wouldbe administering a medicine like that outside ofa hospital. there's a reason y it's not allowed to be taken outside of one or used outside of surgery.

so that's manslaughter. what they need to prove is that he did it.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Soso Deaf said:
a willful disreguard for life wouldbe administering a medicine like that outside ofa hospital. there's a reason y it's not allowed to be taken outside of one or used outside of surgery.

so that's manslaughter. what they need to prove is that he did it.
Click to expand...

Which we know they can do because who else gave Michael Dipervan? Mike ain't stick himself with the needle's and there ain't nobody else to pin it on. He just needs to tell the truth. This could have been done in the beginning.
 
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Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

marjieN said:
Indeed it's not gonna be pretty, but it has to happen. we need to get at the truth however hard it is.
Click to expand...

I agree. And if there's more people involved than just Murray with the shadiness that this seems to be illuding to, it's only a matter of time before said people get scared and start ratting each other out.
 
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Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I haven't read the entire thread, but I certainly will when I get the chance... but this is just absolutely disgusting on so many levels. :tickingtimebomb :throwingstones:
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

well the issue w/ propofol is that it works instantly. so saying mj did it tohimself, no needles or anything found around his body, is insane. it's like me shooting myself in the head seven times...how can i? and then no gun found etc.....

so he didnt' do it to himself.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

i say off with his head :coffee:
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I am beginning to think that Murray attempted to sedate Michael with some drug long enough to rob him of a lot of money. He then tried to revive him but couldn't.

I heard on the news that Dick Gregory said that Michael told him, "they are trying to kill me to get the catalog". Now I don't know how true this may be, but if it is true, then who is THEY? Maybe Murray was paid to do this to Michael. After all, he would be vulnerable to a scheme like this because he was dead broke and in great need of money. Lots of money.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

I haven't read this whole thread, I do intend to, but I just had to say.... speaking as a fan who's dealt with MJ going through blind hate without facts, I just have to say this about this here doctor... before I judge him, I'm going to try to love him.

.........but then when/if he's found guilty let the bashing begin :D
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

Ok what I just don't understand is; was Michael already dead when Murray did the CPR? Cause it's officially been told that he died later, right? What's the truth now?
I really don't get it anymore.
 
Re: Jackson Doctor Manslaughter Court Documents Filed

AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
I am beginning to think that Murray attempted to sedate Michael with some drug long enough to rob him of a lot of money. He then tried to revive him but couldn't.

I heard on the news that Dick Gregory said that Michael told him, "they are trying to kill me to get the catalog". Now I don't know how true this may be, but if it is true, then who is THEY? Maybe Murray was paid to do this to Michael. After all, he would be vulnerable to a scheme like this because he was dead broke and in great need of money. Lots of money.
Click to expand...


You could be right. I hate to think about it, and I don't want to seem paranoid, but there is so much that just doesn't add up. It could be murder made to look like manslaughter, maybe the doctor was willing to lose his license to get a lot of money in the future.

I don't trust that nurse either, and I can't tell you why, she seems nice enough, just instinct I guess.
 
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