Why do fans run down Michael's family members?

[144000]

You don't have to give Joe any credit. I will though. There's no child that could have made it on their own in that business, especially during the times that weren't favorable for certain ethnic groups around America. Yes, you are right, MJ had the drive. He credited God for his gift but he also gave due credit where it belonged. Just as it was a slip of a tongue for him to say he was abused. He also said that Joe helped him to cultivate his talent too.

so you have decided that one statement about abuse was a slip of the tongue, and another statement wasn't a slip of the tongue, as far as crediting his father was concerned.... and that one statement was due credit, where you believe it belonged(his father)?

that would be like me saying that what he said, giving credit to his father was a slip of the tongue, what he said about God was due credit, and what he said about abuse was not a slip of the tongue. so we are definitely expressing two different opinions.

 

[MJJ7777]

So in your opinion Marlon's opinion changed as drastically as it did in such a short time? In late August Marlon went on record saying Joseph beat them a lot and he felt resentful toward him and then he changed his opinion to ''Nothing happened, my dad a cool dude'' in early December? It just happened like that? You think he grew to appreciate and understand it within 3 months? :blink:

I don't see the need to sugarcoat Joseph Jackson's actions, he was an abuser period. And I'm not bashing the man but stating facts. I wonder if the same posters would jump to defend Michael, if Michael had been the abusive one not Joe? Quiet frankly, I don't think so.

Well Gee I don't know, you're the one who said that in the 80s he said he would never treat his children the way that Joe did. And I simply made an assumption using his explanation for a change in opinion during the recent Larry King interview.

I mean if you want to look at it that way, MJ changed his opinions around as much as the others do. MJ says his father was a genius in one instance, in the other he'll say he hated him for what he did to him when he was younger.

Take what you will.

It's all just a mystery to some.

 

[twinklEE]

i reeeeallllllllllllllllllly don't think so either. somehow, Michael IS the poster child for being put on megablast, more than anyone, and tempered support, more than anyone. and big brother monitoring of expressing positivity toward him, more than anyone.

True, true, you know what? I will probably refrain from commenting in this particular section as the hypocrisy in here is unbelievable. I will probably stick to the other sections from now on. For my own mental health, to much nonsense going on in this section. IMO.

 

[MJJ7777]

so you have decided that one statement about abuse was a slip of the tongue, and another statement wasn't a slip of the tongue, as far as crediting his father was concerned.... and that one statement was due credit, where you believe it belonged(his father)?

that would be like me saying that what he said, giving credit to his father was a slip of the tongue, what he said about God was due credit, and what he said about abuse was not a slip of the tongue. so we are definitely expressing two different opinions.

I didn't decide. Go listen for yourself. The link is up there.

If it wasn't a slip of the tongue maybe he wouldn't quickly say "don't put that on tape" right after saying "to the the point of abuse".

Research then conclude.:smilerolleyes:

 

[twinklEE]

Well Gee I don't know, you're the one who said that in the 80s he said he would never treat his children the way that Joe did. And I simply made an assumption using his explanation for a change in opinion during the recent Larry King interview.

I mean if you want to look at it that way, MJ changed his opinions around as much as the others do. MJ says his father was a genius in one instance, in the other he'll say he hated him for what he did to him when he was younger.

Marlon accused Joseph of beating them in late August how come his opinions changed so soon in early December? When in August he stated that he felt resentful toward his father? Of course it had to do with the Dynasty series and keeping the ''One big family. loving family image'' up. .
Michael always gave credit even if it was undeserved, Joe's beatings and insensitivity damaged Michael for good. I don't think you are aware of the effects of abuse.

 

[michaels wendy bird]

Wow so this thread has gone from questioning why people bash slate whatever Michaels family to Bashing Michael...... Nice!!!!

 

[144000]

I didn't decide. Go listen for yourself. The link is up there.

If it wasn't a slip of the tongue maybe he wouldn't quickly say "don't put that on tape" right after saying "to the the point of abuse".

Research then conclude.:smilerolleyes:

i did listen to that. you have no conclusive evidence that he slipped his tongue. MJ came across as the nicest person on earth. you don't know if he said 'don't put that on there' because it was a slip, or, because he just wanted to be nice. or....you don't know if he said 'don't put that on there' because he was AFRAID of his father. he might have wanted to backtrack because he was afraid his father would end up hearing it. like i said, in an earlier post, where i provided the link, MJ spoke of forgiving his father. in order to speak like that, that, his father would have to have done something to him, first.

 

[twinklEE]

Wow so this thread has gone from questioning why people bash slate whatever Michaels family to Bashing Michael...... Nice!!!!

Well thats the way it is, you are allowed to bash the hell out of Michael, but don't dare to criticize the holy family (sarcasm)

 

[michaels wendy bird]

Well thats the way it is, you are allowed to bash the hell out of Michael, but don't dare to criticize the holy family (sarcasm)

Thanks for the heads up twinklEE its good to know how a MICHAEL JACKSON forum works thanks mate :cheeky:

 

[MJJ7777]

True, true, you know what? I will probably refrain from commenting in this particular section as the hypocrisy in here is unbelievable. I will probably stick to the other sections from now on. For my own mental health, to much nonsense going on in this section. IMO.

Oh, the drama! You're making this out to be more than it is, really.

Yeah, in life you will meet people who don't precieve things the way that you would normally do.

As long as no one's getting disrespected or Bashed, this is a completely healthy discussion.

I'm not saying MJ wasn't abused.Vice Versa. There are just certain things that Michael just didn't want us to know. So I can't really make my mind up right now. I'm just using my observation and reasonings.

 

[twinklEE]

Thanks for the heads up twinklEE its good to know how a MICHAEL JACKSON forum works thanks mate :cheeky:

NP :cheeky:, it's sad isn't it? And unfortunately it seems as if all the MICHAEL JACKSON forums work the same way.

Oh, the drama!

Yeah, in life you will meet people who don't precieve things the way that you would normally do.

As long as no one's getting disrespected or Bashed, this is a completely healthy discussion.

I'm not saying MJ wasn't abused.Vice Versa. There are just certain things that Michael just didn't want us to know. So I can't really make my mind up right now. I'm just using my observation and reasonings

There were a lot of things Michael didn't want us to know, I don't see people stopping to discuss those topics. Besides I'm sure Michael wanted the public to know what he had to endure in his childhood, so that we could understand him better. That's the reason he kept on talking about his horrible childhood memories given by Joseph Jackson. But have a nice day I'm done here

 

[144000]

Oh, the drama!

Yeah, in life you will meet people who don't precieve things the way that you would normally do.

As long as no one's getting disrespected or Bashed, this is a completely healthy discussion.

I'm not saying MJ wasn't abused.Vice Versa. There are just certain things that Michael just didn't want us to know. So I can't really make my mind up right now. I'm just using my observation and reasonings.

we really don't know what MJ didn't want us to know. sometimes, people do want to confess something, and want others to find out about it, even though they don't necessarily beat us about the head, doing it. sorta like how he did with Sony. he said 'turn the tape off', when he acted like he didn't want us to know how Mattolla was treating him. then MJ changed his mind, and said..'let the tape run.' MJ went back and forth a lot, in his expressions. that doesn't mean he didn't want us to know something. he had a meek way of expressing himself. that doesn't mean he didn't want to express himself. there are things about MJ, we don't know about. so, if he really didn't want us to know something...we don't know about it, at this time. when he wanted to hide something, he hid it, and we know nothing about it.

 

[ForeverTheKing]

This is ridiculous...seriously...people just need to realize that they DO NOT speak for Michael Jackson, Joe Jackson, Marlon Jackson, Cleofus Jackson or any other person with the last name for that matter. I don't care if u are defending Michael...the man is no longer here and his message and legacy is LOVE not speculation,bickering, and drama...GEEZ!

 

[MJJ7777]

This is ridiculous...seriously...people just need to realize that they DO NOT speak for Michael Jackson, Joe Jackson, Marlon Jackson, Cleofus Jackson or any other person with the last name for that matter. I don't care if u are defending Michael...the man is no longer here and his message and legacy is LOVE not speculation,bickering, and drama...GEEZ!

I agree completely. But we can all offer insight, this is a discussion afterall.

The thread title in itself is a question. Questions must be answered. Not all answers will be the same. Some people will answer in extremely disrespectful tones as I have seen, due to an agenda. Some will answer with an open mind (Neutral). Some will refuse to let go of a set sentiment. All that matters is that most of us are here for Michael and that our hearts are in the right place. Sometimes our answers may not always be favorable to either MJ, the family or any one else but they won't be hateful either. Everyone here was and still is subject to making errors or whatever you want to call it.


MJ left alot of questions unanswered. Some may feel compelled to dwelve into them by digging deeper than what's shown on the surface. It doesn't make that one a criminal.

 

[MJJ7777]

Marlon accused Joseph of beating them in late August how come his opinions changed so soon in early December? When in August he stated that he felt resentful toward his father? Of course it had to do with the Dynasty series and keeping the ''One big family. loving family image'' up. .
Michael always gave credit even if it was undeserved, Joe's beatings and insensitivity damaged Michael for good. I don't think you are aware of the effects of abuse.

Well, sorry for not following up on Marlon religiously. You could be right, he could have changed his opinion for the sake of the show, if what you say is accurate.

But I will say that since the day of MJ's death, I have been less than impressed by the behavior of some of his siblings in public.

Moving on...

Well you may think it's undeserved. No one else has to see it like you do. I don't know why people pick and choose and when some things turn out to be against their favor, they say, well......"MJ didn't mean it". Yeah because he told you so, right?:smilerolleyes:

Once again we end up at square one, interpretation. Can't say for sure.

Here's the thing. Yes I believe that Joe has both affected MJ's life adversely and positively. You, however believe that he's affected Michael's life adversely, and nothing more. That's perfectly fine.

I understand the effects of abuse quite well. I have seen them. There are cases that are ten times worse than this , yet it never gets to the television screen. Places where victims suffer in vain forever without a voice.

I come from a house of tough love. Maybe you don't. and that's Good for you. Everything that some people might read about may shock them because this isn't what they've been accustomed to culturally or whatever. But this is honestly, nothing new to me, I relate to Michael alot in that sense.Sorry.

But seriously, All I was trying to say all along is that...I'm not sure if Michael wanted us to view him as an "abused" person, literally. He never told the public, literally and specifically that he was "abused" and judging from the accounts he's given us, he has all the more reason to say so, but he never did. I wonder why, is that such a crime? Is that bashing MJ to say that he never said he was "abused"?

I thought I was sensitive.:smilerolleyes:

 

[144000]

^^^^MJ7777, you said, as long as there is no disrespect or bashing, this would be a healthy discussion. i find it curious that there is no latitude for what constitutes disrespecting or bashing among members. but you make comparisons of abuse..that there were those who were abused ten times more than Michael. you just got finished listening to a recording where MJ used the word 'abuse', and now you go back to denying that MJ used the word 'abuse'.

there should not have to be latitude for degrees of abuse. abuse is abuse. there shouldn't have to be long term study, and dissecting, to determine abuse. there shouldn't be abuse comparisons, anymore than there should be disrespect and bashing comparisons. that gives people a license they shouldn't have, in raising children.

the bottom line is, the comparison between what Paris said on that memorial stage at a very tender age, about her father, and what Michael said, at a tender age, about his father, is remarkable. and vast.

and it makes one appreciate MJ as being the world's greatest dad.

and it makes you appreciate the awesome responsiblity in raising a child. there is no holding onto sentiments, here. there is simply stating what is out there. what is public record. there isn't an issue of people not being able to forgive. a lot of people here may have learned to forgive. that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to state, what is public record, and have a problem with it.

 

[amyzabeth]

Well Gee I don't know, you're the one who said that in the 80s he said he would never treat his children the way that Joe did. And I simply made an assumption using his explanation for a change in opinion during the recent Larry King interview.

I mean if you want to look at it that way, MJ changed his opinions around as much as the others do. MJ says his father was a genius in one instance, in the other he'll say he hated him for what he did to him when he was younger.

Take what you will.

It's all just a mystery to some.

Michael said his father was a geinus in the "business world" He taught Michael mainly about the "music business" not the entire business, but Joseph did teach Michael some things in the "musical business world." That does NOT mean that Joe didn't abuse Michael. I mean Mike said in some interview that Joe taught him to never let the audience know that something was wrong. If they were performing they were to focus on that and leave everything else offstage. I don't know where you keep getting the "Michael never said Joe abused him" thing from. If you don't consider being stripped nude, oiled down and beat with an ironing cord abuse, then :no: I don't even know. Maybe the other brother's weren't abused as bad as Michael. But that doesn't mean that they need to say "oh well Michael was young, he didn't understand." That's total BS. They aren't Michael so they don't know what HE went through. Not every person in the family is abused if there is an abusive parent or w.e present. It could just be maybe one or two people in the main family unit being abused. Again Mike said his father was a genius in the MUSIC BUSINESS, not as a father.

 

[twinklEE]

Michael said his father was a geinus in the "business world" He taught Michael mainly about the "music business" not the entire business, but Joseph did teach Michael some things in the "musical business world." That does NOT mean that Joe didn't abuse Michael. I mean Mike said in some interview that Joe taught him to never let the audience know that something was wrong. If they were performing they were to focus on that and leave everything else offstage. I don't know where you keep getting the "Michael never said Joe abused him" thing from. If you don't consider being stripped nude, oiled down and beat with an ironing cord abuse, then :no: I don't even know. Maybe the other brother's weren't abused as bad as Michael. But that doesn't mean that they need to say "oh well Michael was young, he didn't understand." That's total BS. They aren't Michael so they don't know what HE went through. Not every person in the family is abused if there is an abusive parent or w.e present. It could just be maybe one or two people in the main family unit being abused. Again Mike said his father was a genius in the MUSIC BUSINESS, not as a father.

Really well said.

 

[amyzabeth]

Wow some of yall try to make it seem like expressing disappointment and anger about some family members is "bashing". I say what I feel and call a spade a spade, period. And it's mostly about Joe Jackson and Jermaine Jackson and they did the kind of things that make my blood boil. The kind of things I don't even wanna list cuz that will make my blood pressure go up on this Christmas day. The kind of things they think they can get away with under that convenient, popular phrases like, "Blood is thicker than water" or "We're one big happy family no matter what." Oh please.

Family itself is not some perfect setting that automatically protects every member in it. It's the people within the structure that decides the dynamics that cause happiness or sadness or even tragedy. Due to the common belief or fantasy about the sanctity of family, abuse within family gets swept under the rug so many times. It makes some say "It can't be abuse. Must be something else that gives you such impression. They're family, they love each other no matter what."
I know this view can explain the mindset of some of those who still believe it was just a healthy dose of discipline from a strict father who shows no emotions.
If you come from a more or less normal family, it ain't easy for you to notice the biggest horror can happen within your own family sometimes. It's supposed to be all about love despite all the problems and conflicts, but when it's not the case, then it becomes the biggest horror you'll ever experience in your life. It all boils down to specific people within a family and their actions and words no matter how hard you try to stick to the fantasy about the security of family.

Amen :clapping::clapping::clapping:

:agree:

 

[MicHil]

Wow some of yall try to make it seem like expressing disappointment and anger about some family members is "bashing". I say what I feel and call a spade a spade, period. And it's mostly about Joe Jackson and Jermaine Jackson and they did the kind of things that make my blood boil. The kind of things I don't even wanna list cuz that will make my blood pressure go up on this Christmas day. The kind of things they think they can get away with under that convenient, popular phrases like, "Blood is thicker than water" or "We're one big happy family no matter what." Oh please.

Family itself is not some perfect setting that automatically protects every member in it. It's the people within the structure that decides the dynamics that cause happiness or sadness or even tragedy. Due to the common belief or fantasy about the sanctity of family, abuse within family gets swept under the rug so many times. It makes some say "It can't be abuse. Must be something else that gives you such impression. They're family, they love each other no matter what."
I know this view can explain the mindset of some of those who still believe it was just a healthy dose of discipline from a strict father who shows no emotions.
If you come from a more or less normal family, it ain't easy for you to notice the biggest horror can happen within your own family sometimes. It's supposed to be all about love despite all the problems and conflicts, but when it's not the case, then it becomes the biggest horror you'll ever experience in your life. It all boils down to specific people within a family and their actions and words no matter how hard you try to stick to the fantasy about the security of family.

:wub:

so true.

 

[sweetbabyxsj]

the family is big. thought some family members have some problems, most of them are good. Jackie Tito Marlon Rabbie and some others are good.

 

[MJJ7777]

^^^^MJ7777, you said, as long as there is no disrespect or bashing, this would be a healthy discussion. i find it curious that there is no latitude for what constitutes disrespecting or bashing among members. but you make comparisons of abuse..that there were those who were abused ten times more than Michael. you just got finished listening to a recording where MJ used the word 'abuse', and now you go back to denying that MJ used the word 'abuse'.

there should not have to be latitude for degrees of abuse. abuse is abuse. there shouldn't have to be long term study, and dissecting, to determine abuse. there shouldn't be abuse comparisons, anymore than there should be disrespect and bashing comparisons. that gives people a license they shouldn't have, in raising children.

the bottom line is, the comparison between what Paris said on that memorial stage at a very tender age, about her father, and what Michael said, at a tender age, about his father, is remarkable. and vast.

and it makes one appreciate MJ as being the world's greatest dad.

and it makes you appreciate the awesome responsiblity in raising a child. there is no holding onto sentiments, here. there is simply stating what is out there. what is public record. there isn't an issue of people not being able to forgive. a lot of people here may have learned to forgive. that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to state, what is public record, and have a problem with it.

For the thousandth time. This wasn't meant for the public to hear or know. Yes, I heard him but this was a private recording.

What baffles me is that Michael will say all of this and then later recant as we see in the rebuttal where Joe is seen refuting every allegation that MJ made.

Whyyyyy?

No one seems to know the logical answer here, so w.e.

We'll never see eye to eye on this one,sorry. I'm officially done with this discussion.

 

[144000]

For the thousandth time. This wasn't meant for the public to hear or know. Yes, I heard him but this was a private recording.

What baffles me is that Michael will say all of this and then later recant as we see in the rebuttal where Joe is seen refuting every allegation that MJ made.

Whyyyyy?

No one seems to know the logical answer here, so w.e.

We'll never see eye to eye on this one,sorry. I'm officially done with this discussion.

well...he said he feared his father. it's understandable that someone would recant in front of someone of whom they are afraid. and as has been repeated many times, the oxford speech was mentioned, and linked. in it, he said that he forgave his father. that means his father did something. there was no recanting of that oxford speech, done in front of the public, with no recorder to turn off. no privacy. apparently, you decided not to go to that link or listen to that speech. i guess you will believe who you will believe.

it is unfortunate that there are a lot of people who don't believe things that MJ says. it is unfortunate that some people mistake an appearance of meekness, for uncertainty.

and on the same token, Joseph Jackson appears as forceful. MJ's brothers appear to look more certain. that doesn't mean they are telling the truth.

MJ may have appeared to be the earth's most meek person, but he has had the most successful career. much more successful than a lot of people who appeared as much more forceful. that could very well mean, that MJ put his foot down, and believed what he said, and knew what he was talking about, and knew how to be truthful. the things he believed about his career, and how to be successful, apparently were right, even though he may have appeared to be 'uncertain', in his conviction. there is no reason to believe he wasn't truthful in life, as well, even with the same meek personality.

 

[Mechi]

Me personally I don't think it's fans loving the family and fans bashing the family... there's a lot in between there.
Me for example I don't even have an opnion about some of the family members as I don't even know about them and what they're doing.
Then there's other family members who seem to can't get enough of being in the spot light of attention.
Can't say I have an opinion about that... there's too many ppl in the entertainment business these days getting into the spotlight without even only some talent... nope I don't really care about that.
There's family members who seem to very much use 'the chance' of Michaels death for selling interviews. Do I have to judge them for that, clearly no. Would I do the same? NEVER! But I don't really feel the need to talk about this on my good days honestly. There's to much respect and admiration for Michael and how he always handled these things during his life time. He was a true rolemodel and on this part I know I have to work a lot on myself to ever come close to how he was. This by Michael to me made a part of his legacy, he never really talked bad about some who treated him... well badly seems to be too innocent a term here.

But then there it comes to family members in the Jackson family having the guts to make it look as if Michael lied or meant the oposite of what is written down.
Honestly that ticks me off.
Only because he's not here anymore and simply has no chance to respond to that.
And no I'm not the one who has to decide who is lying, or who's saying the truth more or less. That doesn't even matter.

But it's so lowest class when you make someone who just passed look as if he was not saying the truth before! You just don't do this when someone passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I suggest when the Jackson family doesn't want someone jumping in their face it's up to them to overthink what they're doing and/or talking out there.
I try not to jump on them ONLY out of respect for Michael, but sheeeesh some of them make it hard sometimes!

Then again I don't know if the original poster really means someone like me, cuz to me that's no bashing. I'm not giving them critic for what they say... it's about the time and how they enjoy twisting happenings their own ways as the one who was in the center of what they say is not here anymore.

I don't need to judge them. Still yes I call them out for it. And I always will. Cuz to me that doesn't mean disrespect from me. I do this out of respect for Michael.

 

[Fontaine]

well...he said he feared his father. it's understandable that someone would recant in front of someone of whom they are afraid.

Margaret Maldonado [Jermaine's ex and mother of two of his children] said that after the Oprah interview, Michael bought Joseph a car. I tend to think that expensive gift came from fear. [Though it could've also been that Michael felt guilty for publicly divulging what he had.] When Oprah was going over the interview [this past September], she said, "Michael tried to temper it by saying, 'Please, don't be mad at me, Joseph.' So obviously you know that he still carried that fear and pain." That [i.e., the fear] could very well be why he "allowed" Joseph to deny the abuse in Take Two. It could also be why he [according to Frank Dileo] signed a contract with Leonard Rowe that he didn't want to sign.

 

[Datsymay]

I agree fans and family members could learn a lesson or two from MJ.
As for the brothers Marlon was on record in the 80s saying he would never treat his children the way Joseph treated them. When he sold his interview to the British tabloids (one day before Michael's burial) he too admitted Joseph's vile and abusive behavior. Somehow his opinion seems to have changed between now and August (for the sake of the Dynasty series), I can't explain his sudden change of heart otherwise.
Michael was also on record describing how Joseph would strip them down, oil them up and then beat them. To me that is abuse but maybe to you/and/or others it's a form of showing 'love'?
Although I'm sure that every Joe Jackson defender would be hesitant, to show 'love' this way.
But let's agree to disagree, as some would never agree with what I have said anyways, despite knowing that's the truth.

mICHAEL IS ON RECORD SAYING LOTS OF THINGS ABOUT HIS FATHER. hE IS ON RECORD ASKING HIS FATHER TO COME AND PLAY PILLOW FIGHTS WITH HIM AND HIS BROTHER. HE IS ON RECORD SAYING HE WOULD NEVER CHANGE A THING ABOUT HIS CHILDHOOD. HE IS ON RECORD SAYING THAT HE DIDN'T GET MUCH BEATINGS BECAUSE HE USED TO RUN AWAY. HE IS ON RECORD SAYING THAT HE Is Just like his father.
he is on record saying that his father taught him to be strong and courageous and to never give up and to reach for the stars,
Maybe Joseph saved his children from the lynch mobs of the fifties, maybe Joseph saved his kids from the street gangs that may have put a bullet in their heads maybe joseph saved them from the steel mills which may have sapped their soul.
how about looking at both sides of joseph and compare him to what was possible at the time. Instead of all the talk about beatings which every father gave their kids at the time.

 

[Datsymay]

Marlon accused Joseph of beating them in late August how come his opinions changed so soon in early December? When in August he stated that he felt resentful toward his father? Of course it had to do with the Dynasty series and keeping the ''One big family. loving family image'' up. .
Michael always gave credit even if it was undeserved, Joe's beatings and insensitivity damaged Michael for good. I don't think you are aware of the effects of abuse.

I do not know what era you were born in, but all children were beaten in the earlier part of the 20th century. ALL CHILDREN were beaten. you couldn't go to school and not get whipped or if you went to prison you got whipped. It is a part of the history of the time. Prince Charles talked about his getting whipped by his nanny. Even rich kids got whipped too.
that was how it was in those day.
I think the campaign against children being whipped was a good one but they confused it with abuse that comes with negligent parents who hated their children. that was wrong. Joe Jackson was NEVER a negligent parent, he was there for his children and he spent quality time with them. He did what HE knew at the time. and he did it to the best of his ability.l

 

[Datsymay]

the family is big. thought some family members have some problems, most of them are good. Jackie Tito Marlon Rabbie and some others are good.

How can you judge goodness by looking at soundbites from television? TV clips are editted to show what the media want to show what the participants want you to see. Isn't it why Mj is judged so negatively in the first place. because of his tv persona?

 

[stineLOVESmichael]

I do not know what era you were born in, but all children were beaten in the earlier part of the 20th century. ALL CHILDREN were beaten. you couldn't go to school and not get whipped or if you went to prison you got whipped. It is a part of the history of the time. Prince Charles talked about his getting whipped by his nanny. Even rich kids got whipped too.
that was how it was in those day.
I think the campaign against children being whipped was a good one but they confused it with abuse that comes with negligent parents who hated their children. that was wrong. Joe Jackson was NEVER a negligent parent, he was there for his children and he spent quality time with them. He did what HE knew at the time. and he did it to the best of his ability.l

I just gotta ask...
was it ever OK though to get whipped for dancing wrong or singing a false note? while other kids got "whipped" for being Bad or not listen to their parents..Michael got whipped for messing up dance steps?
to me that's wrong

 

[FunkeyJay]

Well, I didn't follow the whole thread, just read the last comments.

No matter what - an abusive father is NOT okay, it is not LOVE and to me there is no excuse of the fact what time it was. Not everyone got hit by their parents to that time. My father was born 1959 and his parents didn't beat him up when his behaviour wasn't right. But even today there are abusive parents and I think it's a matter of the character of the person and how the person grew up. Some people choose to raise their children the same way and some - like Michael - are able to make the change.