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Email From Kenny To Randy Phillips

Ramona122003 said:
To be fair, a number of people have said the exact same thing about Michael over the years. Once he got an idea, he went for it. Just like no one couldn't tell him that his next album after Off the Wall wouldn't be the best selling album ever despite everyone telling him how unlikely it was for it to happened give the state of the industry back then. Or even after 93 Michael still had sleep overs and invited kids to his house.

Michael was a very stubborn man and it helped him greatly succeed in life, but it also hurt him greatly.
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thats exactly what i said, he was stubborn.


Murray didn't care about Michael's life. whatever he did was to ensure he was getting paid.
 
Watching Kenny I saw a lot of pain. When he talked about Michael you could see how he wish he knew what was really going on. He didn't live with Michael. He showed concern and then the doctor and Michael assure him everything is fine. Then Michael comes to rehearse and he looks like the Michael he knows. It seems like things seemed off the last 2 weeks of Michael's life not the whole time they were planning the tour. It must have shocked him to what Murray was giving Michael.
 
Big Apple2 said:
twinklEE, you know you my little homie, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

Michael Jackson marched to the beat of his OWN drum. I seriously doubt that he would have listened to anyone, even a beloved wife and/or girlfriend. Michael was Michael and once he put his mind to something, I seriously doubt anybody could change his mind.

I'm up there in age and can tell you, once you reach a certain age, you are set in your ways, you ain't really trying to hear what somebody else has to say, i.e. "don't be telling me what to do woman!"

And I truly believe that Michael Jackson was set in his ways. God love em!
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Well said! He didn't make it this long, this successful, in this business because of some girlfriend or wife, ROFL! Put the Harlequin Romance novel down, folks...... :lmao:
 
Ramona122003 said:
You have to remember this was about an event that happened on one day and Kenny clearly said that he never saw Michael like this before. Which means, Michael didn't come on feeling cold and sick everyday. As someone said, everyone is allowed to have a sick day without being labeled as sickly.
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Exactly. People are overlooking this. Ortega was concerned for what he saw. Then, he saw Michael a few days later looking great.
 
classic said:
Exactly. People are overlooking this. Ortega was concerned for what he saw. Then, he saw Michael a few days later looking great.
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Yes, Michael may have been "looking great" at that time, but Murray was still THERE, at his bedside. The defense said "Propofol is not a poison." Yes, it IS. And Murray was still THERE, poisoning Michael.

Michael wanted so badly to succeed. Apparently, so did Ortega, want him to succeed. Murray shut Ortega DOWN. And then? Michael DIED.

There were some who were concerned about Michael, and who took great risks in voicing their concern. The Follower Fans were among them. Not only were they ignored, but ATTACKED. But, in the end, they, and Ortega, were RIGHT.
 
I am depressed too,, So Kenny is the only one that cared? Just sad...
 
Big Apple2 said:
Michael Jackson marched to the beat of his OWN drum. I seriously doubt that he would have listened to anyone, even a beloved wife and/or girlfriend. Michael was Michael and once he put his mind to something, I seriously doubt anybody could change his mind.

I'm up there in age and can tell you, once you reach a certain age, you are set in your ways, you ain't really trying to hear what somebody else has to say, i.e. "don't be telling me what to do woman!"

And I truly believe that Michael Jackson was set in his ways. God love em!
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IMO Michael's biggest problem was the fact he was always surrounded with people who were telling him what he wanted to hear. One of the most important aspects of love are honesty and mutual understanding. You should tell the person who you love what you feel and what you think and if that person truly love you he/she would listen. Michael didn't have that person in his life and that was the reason why he was so vulnerable and why he felt so lonely. Of course he had a good friends in his life like Elizabeth, Brando, Diana, Lisa, Kenny Ortega etc. but he didn't lived with them.
I am so sad :( Michael Jackson was a brilliant, brilliant man, artist, one of the greatest being who has ever lived and he enriched my life beyond measure and yet I think that he never ever felt true happiness and complete peace. :(
 
My goodness :( ..hearing that audio message from Michael was heart-wrenching. We don't know exactly why he sounded like that, but he seriously sounded like he was dying :(. I don't know how anybody with a heart could have seen Michael Jackson in a state like that and not said anything about it..
 
Murray was going to black mail Michael, i think thak recording was altered. Michael wasn't sluring his words with Kenney Ortiga or any one else. the prosecutor is goning to take Michael and Murray down at the same time. this is pay back to Michael. for them to show Michael's body without warning the court is a slap in the face to the jackson family. Can a recording be altered to sound like the one we heard today? I don't trust the defense and i show as hell don't trust the prosecutor. Let's stick with Michael and don't belive every thing we here.
 
See, the thing is that neither Ortega, nor anybody else apparently knew what kind of 'care' Murray was supplying. Of course we're all screaming in pain, OMG, if he was that sick and lost weight, why didn't they drag him to the hospital? 'Cause apparently nobody who was dealing with him in any professional capacity knew about it. On the other hand saying that you want someone's words analyzed through the lens of psychology- THAT is definitely not a "everybody gets physically sick for a day" thing- that alone tells you that he did think that something rather substantial is going on.

Hindsight is difficult in this case, nobody knew of the Propofol until it was way too late. (except for a few folks, but I am not sure what I think about that)

That letter is already quite personal for somebody with whom you largely have a creative relationship.
That's a heart wrenching mail and Ortega seemed to be in a lot of emotional pain.

mdiegee210 said:
Murray was going to black mail Michael...
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That tape mystifies me beyond belief, no matter how you slice it and not matter what Murray's defense is going to claim for it's existence.
 
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This was a very sad moment. Suck a large family like the Jacksons...yet MJ wasn't close to any of them.

Let's be real..this audio tape is not just an indictment of Murray...it is also an indictment of Michael's own family. Who for years abused, exploited and misused the man to the point he isolated himself from the very people that should protect him: His family.

Leaving him vulnerable to greedy individuals like Thome Thome, Rabbi Schmuley, The Arvizos...and so many more. No matter how much they dreamed that MJ forgave them or was close to his family, no one, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, could have gone through all the difficult he dealt with with Latoya, Joe, Jermaine, Randy unscarred. He found a way to protect himself from the abused (was Liza Minalli said so well in the interview) by distending himself from the very people that should have been protecting him.

The further he pulled from his own family...the closer he got to a host of unsavory individuals.

So when they are all shouting "Follow the money trail", they need to stop and take a hard long look in the mirror.
 
Hi BigApple2, I just wanted to add that I agree with both you and TwinklEE. Yes Michael was stubborn but he needed someone (besides his minor children) who truly cared to be there for him. Not so much to change his mind about an idea, he needed someone to shoulder some of the weight he carried on his shoulders alone, someone to act as a shield and deflect some of the barbs he absorbed alone and someone to love him for him; warts and all with no strings attached. Michael had lupus and stress wrecks havoc on lupus patients. His trial was enough stress add to that reunion tours, Leonard Rowe, Thome, estate auctions, financial crisis, bad reputation, industry abandonment, betrayal, etc. Its all too much for one person to bear all at once without fully recovering. Perhaps a "wife" could offer some help in some of these areas? Of course this has absolutely nothing to do with why Murray conducted himself the way he did, I just wanted to point out that as humans we all need someone, even Michael.
 
mdiegee210 said:
Murray was going to black mail Michael, i think thak recording was altered. Michael wasn't sluring his words with Kenney Ortiga or any one else. the prosecutor is goning to take Michael and Murray down at the same time. this is pay back to Michael. for them to show Michael's body without warning the court is a slap in the face to the jackson family. Can a recording be altered to sound like the one we heard today? I don't trust the defense and i show as hell don't trust the prosecutor. Let's stick with Michael and don't belive every thing we here.
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The recording wasn't altered. According to some of the facts the prosecutor brought out today, it's an actual recording of Michael under the influence of an unknown substance. No matter how we feel about the photo, it had to be done, the prosecution has to show the jury that Michael was a well man, yes he was going to Arnold Klein, yes he was possibly getting demerol for whatever treatment he was receiving while at the clinic. However, that's not what killed him, even with all that Michael attended his rehearsals, he sang and spoke well, and danced like he was 30 years younger, then all of a sudden, in the drop of a dime, he's dead. That photo had to be shown to the jury to prove the point that there is no reason that Michael should be dead, but he is because of negligence.

The prosecution aren't out for revenge and aren't going to "bring Michael down". Not to mention the prosecution and DA's for this case are separate entities from those in Santa Barbara.
 
Memefan said:
This was a very sad moment. Suck a large family like the Jacksons...yet MJ wasn't close to any of them.

Let's be real..this audio tape is not just an indictment of Murray...it is also an indictment of Michael's own family. Who for years abused, exploited and misused the man to the point he isolated himself from the very people that should protect him: His family.

Leaving him vulnerable to greedy individuals like Thome Thome, Rabbi Schmuley, The Arvizos...and so many more. No matter how much they dreamed that MJ forgave them or was close to his family, no one, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, could have gone through all the difficult he dealt with with Latoya, Joe, Jermaine, Randy unscarred. He found a way to protect himself from the abused (was Liza Minalli said so well in the interview) by distending himself from the very people that should have been protecting him.

The further he pulled from his own family...the closer he got to a host of unsavory individuals.

So when they are all shouting "Follow the money trail", they need to stop and take a hard long look in the mirror.
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Memefan,

I so agree.. MJ had no one and the 'family' that should've watched over and protected him from money grubbing characters like Murray did absolutely nothing for him and right now they are allowing some more unsavory characters around MJ's own children
 
Big Apple2 said:
What exactly was Ortega supposed to do?

I believe Ortega testified during the preliminary hearing that Michael said something like: "I know you're worried, but I'm fine."

Then you have Michael's PERSONAL PHYSICIAN telling you to "mind your business," and to basically stay in your lane. "Ortega you're not a doctor, worry about the concert and let me worry about Michael Jackson's health."

Then the next time Michael shows up, he appears to be fine.

I really can't see what Ortega could have done differently, it's not like Michael was a child. We're talking about a 50 year old man.

Again, what was Ortega supposed to do? He made his concerns known and was dismissed by Michael's personal physician.
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qbee said:
Apparently you didnt listen to the testimony - Here is the timeline given

MJ went home early on 19th becuase he was out of sorts Kenny sent email to Randy Phillips stating they need to help and that MJ wanted to do the shows. Kenny was called to a meeting with MJ and his doctor the following day to see what they could do to help MJ get stronger prepared physically and mentally. Dr told Kenny not to worry he would take care and MJ and get him strong. That he was the DR and for Kenny to take care of his job. MJ also said dont worry he will be fine.

Now the following June 20 - 21- 22 there were no rehearsals scheduled becuase they were moving into the staples Center - so MJ did NOT miss any rehearsals those days. He was relaxing rehearsing at home and building up his stregth _ when MJ returns on the 23 for the scheduled rehearsals he was better more alert , stonger and ready willing and able to take on the task andrehearsals _ same on the 24th - That is the time line .. Kenny did do something. He contacted his boss and went to meet with MJ and his DR to see what was needed to help MJ . Now remember no one was aware what Murray was doing behind closed doors to MJ . to them he was working on getting healthier and stronger and they seen MJ in much better condition when he returned for the last rehearsals - They thought what ever was wrong had been dealt with and they were all happlily looking forward incuding MJ.
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I indeed hadn't heard the testimony, i ain't following the case at all to be honest. I just hope justice will be done eventually. But you guys are right...Kenny did alot already, it's not his fault.


And as some people here said..when Michael wanted something, it happened. So its very possible that Michael wanted those 'meds' to be able to sleep no matter what. And still Murray should have denied this, gotten him better help..no instead he just agreed and gave him that garbage. But this is all a possible scenario, maybe Michael wasn't even aware of how dangerous the stuff was he got.
 
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I can only say that Kenny felt that there was more going on with Michael than just a sick day. That's why he suggested a psychological evaluation in his letter. I mean, he was writing that Michael was obsessing, was clinging to him and begging him not to leave him. That, to me, seems like a man who is in a constant state of panic, disoriented; who doesn't want to admit to it, but who searches for help in any way he can. I can fully understand that state.
But there was nothing for Ortega to do, since they actually had a doctor taking care on Michael. Maybe he said to himself that "the doctor knows best"...That's why Murray is so guilty in my eyes.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
What happened in between those 5 days after that email? Did he still show up for rehearsals? Didn't they claim that This is it shows performances from Michael taken...a day before his death? Very weird all this.
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MJ was apparantly really good on his last two days, even karen has said so.
 
Kenny did all he could as far as I can see. No one seemed to be able to stop or forsee what Conrad Murray did to Michael.
 
This is extremely sad :( He should have been taken care of much better. He was too precious:(
Oh god, I'm depressed all over again...
 
I just think the huge comeback at the o2 was such a enormous mountain for mj to climb. It wasn't just the dancing/performing, it was the return to the media spotlight, that a few years ago crucified him. i just can't imagine the pressure he must have been feeling, he was such a sensitive soul. I just know the london tabs would have been salivating at the thought of all the stories they were gonna run, remember daphne barak was in london (I think) at this time with nanny grace getting her to spill some scandal which they would prob run in the papers in the runup to the start of the tour. MJ was incredibly courageous and showed immense pride to do what he was doing - he so easily could have sold teh sony/atv catalogue and walked away to live in luxury.

I feel incredibly bad he had noone looking out for what he needed health wise , not what he wanted - 2 different things.
 
I blame the media a lot too for what happened to Michael. They never left him alone and then they literally tried to destroy him by their lies, cruelty and witch hunt behavior.
 
The defence team have seen many hours footage from this is it rehearsals and the judge have seen many hours too and they didn´t find footage of a sick and tired Michael.
I suppose the day Michael felt ill wasn´t included , they knew about it anyway.

Of course Michael could have felt sick at home sometimes but those he worked with didn´t live there.Actually Michael was working with other projects too, a classical album and he was planning another album too.I think there were other projects too where he was involved at least a little.

I think his confidence wasn´t that good after all bad things he had been through,but I saw in This is it how Ortega encouraged him, the dancers and singers admired him.It seems Michael wanted to do the concerts but doubted himself he could do it and was struggling to get the greatest performerfeeling.
I would like to know what happened the days before the last rehearsals to make him feel like his old self again.The last rehearsal days Michael said he could it.
I think he could have, all he needed was to get help to get some sleep.
 
my Stomach hurts from all of this all over again trials

dr.Murder can go to hell cause MJ Fans got the right to his justice
 
It is sad that Kenny thought the problem more emotional and psychological, when the problem was really Muarry giving him this drug and needing to stop. If only Kenny realized that it was Muarry's treatment that was causing this problem, then maybe his actions would have been different. All it took was for Muarry to stop and we would have Michael with us.
 
Petrarose said:
It is sad that Kenny thought the problem more emotional and psychological, when the problem was really Muarry giving him this drug and needing to stop. If only Kenny realized that it was Muarry's treatment that was causing this problem, then maybe his actions would have been different. All it took was for Muarry to stop and we would have Michael with us.
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Well to be honest, the fact that MJ thought propofol was helping him is evidence of psychological and emotional issues. MJ should've gotten help ages ago for a lot of his emotional pain and trauma.. In addition to his childhood, the later years of media lies, allegations, criminal charges , mockery and jokes etc..I'm surprised he made it this long. MJ had a lot of weight on those thin shoulders and unfortunately he had absolutely no one to handle it with him. I still think if he had a strong wife, who was full of love and support he would've been ok, but MJ didn't have that.
 
I think we have no reason NOT to believe Ortega's email, and his testimony in court seems quite truthful. And, that awful audio tape? Ortega's email clearly included doubts that Michael could actually do the concerts. I do think it's good to be open-minded if we are to find the truth, and not just what we WANT the truth to be?

Murray was Michael's DOCTOR. It's clear now that there were times when Michael was not in good shape, at all. Ortega said "Michael was even thinner" (costume fitting). Point is, that whatever was going on with Michael, it was obvious to Ortega, and Murray's role was to care for Michael. He did NOT "care for Michael." At all.
 
jaydom7 said:
Well to be honest, the fact that MJ thought propofol was helping him is evidence of psychological and emotional issues. MJ should've gotten help ages ago for a lot of his emotional pain and trauma.. In addition to his childhood, the later years of media lies, allegations, criminal charges , mockery and jokes etc..I'm surprised he made it this long. MJ had a lot of weight on those thin shoulders and unfortunately he had absolutely no one to handle it with him. I still think if he had a strong wife, who was full of love and support he would've been ok, but MJ didn't have that.
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I think you like many fans has been reading one too many romance novels. Having a wife doesn't magically solve all your personally problems and can actually make somethings worst.

I also don't think would should be guessing about Michael's psychological state since we will never know either way what he did or didn't get help with and it's really none of our concern.
 
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