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Autopsy Photo's, Crime Scene Pic to Show what really happened to our MJ!?

daisy said:
ok I found a post of this Moth2aflame person. Be careful, it´s quite direct!

Originally Posted by Moth2aFlame

Exactly, Exactly. This is how Michael was MURDERED. Michael when he first entered his bedroom was overpowered which didnt take much given his weight and him being afraid to eat and drink thinking these people where poisioning him already thats why he fired that Ape Cherlynn the The Lying Nutrionist, and by him being a Health Conscious Person didnt eat food from any Restaurant either. But anyway Michael was overpowered and given Succinylcholine or Vecuronium these are drugs used in Operation Rooms in every hospital in America, they cause Paralysis while the Anestisiologist put the breathing tube in the patient, it allows the Patient to feel no pain but allows them to be still while the tube is put in and it is NOT traceable, All you can do is move your EYES. Michael Jackson was tortured for hours before he died I can see the tears falling from his eyes, he went in and out of CARDIC ARREST for HOURS, when they first gave him the Succinylcholine he could not MOVE but he saw EVERYTHING they did to him, they started INJECTING Michael with Low Dosages of Morpine, Demorol and other Narcotics and Anit-Depressants for the next 7 HOURS his Killers spent ALOT of time with Michael that Morning, each time they would inject him with heavier dosages some in the SAME Injection sites until he went into FULL CARDIC ARREST, they made him die a very slow Death to throw off Time of Death. I say Michael Jackson real time of death is between 9am and 12pm Joe Jackson is right that "Michael had BEEN Dead" and the Parmedics rumors that "he was dead when they got there" are TRUE, there is a 4 hour window that Doctors CANNOT call time of death and the Doctors that really murdered Michael know this, they call at a certain time because thats the time LEGALLY they have to call it when brought into an Emergency Room. The sad part that I feel is for the Fans who dont understand what has happened here. But for the so called Fans thats perpertrating and apart of this Conspiracy surfing the net under 10 different names same person and posting Negative, Riduclous Threads and Messages to sway these innocent loving Fans, we have a Prayer Group going that God have no MERCY on them because they are part of Michael's Murdered. Its time out for letting MURDERERS get AWAY with Murder wheter in a small Community, our Community or across this Nation, there are people trying to help Michael's Murderers get away with Murder but they want get away not this time, we are required by Law and God not to allow Murderers to get away with Murder, but some people have already sold their Soul and they know their End so they will do anything for Money. But we all will see Michael Jackson again and he will show and reveal to us exactly what happened to him on the morning of June 25, 2009 and it want be no ACCIDENT involved. I can tell from just reading the first line on a post those who are for Michael Jackson and really want the Truth and those who is against Michael Jackson and already know the Truth they are not hard to spot and recognize they may try to mix a little smpathy in the post but their overall message is, believe it was an Accident, SONY and AEG are GOOD Business People, The Executors are Good, Joe Jackson is Bad, like I said they know what they are doing but they shall reap the World Wind for It. Sometimes you would think this is a Michael Jackson Hate Forum instead of Fan Site. But they exposed themselves Well and so shall they in their Court Appearance trying to take Michael Jackson's Estate not only from Joe and Katherine Jackson but Paris, Prince Michael and Prince Michael II these people could careless about these 3 children either, they have plans to Bankrupt their share of the Estate anyway, dont believe me just keep watching this unfold.
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What date did you find this I went all the way back to July and all I found was about AEG and the Illuminati Thread, I know there where more Threads than these two ?
 
Flor said:
I'll try to translate you , the best I can...

According to officials from the morgue where michael's body rested before being delivered to the family , his body was pale , from head to toe , like a winter flower.He was bald , his arms had needles marks , he had bruising and his ribs were broken because of the useless and brutal cardiac massage done to try to revive him.
He weighted 50 kilos (according to the conversor I used thats 110.231 lb),he was practically malnourished.
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Thank you very much.
 
Moth2aFlame. who is that? I honestly believe every word she(?) said since it could be possible but who is it? how does she know that?
 
Is it the reconstruction of events according to any relations. What's this? It's too much for me ...I suppose. Is it possible?
 
I´ve read some posts of this Moth2aflame person. Generally this person seemed to have lot of info, though I think most of them you could read in the net, if you research.
BUT not about the detailed description of that night. That was probably a kind of this poster´s own projection from what she (he) felt and knew about the circumstances of Michael´s death. Just that it makes a lot of sense, IMO, though maybe exaggerated, IDK.

Generally, also, this poster was much in favour of the theory of conspiracy against Michael, planned murder, and she (he) was often pointing at SONY and people ivolved with SONY in different ways, but that was not exceptional, as several people on this board were talking about it.
 
I feel really, really sick after watching/reading all this, but I commend you all for your heartfelt investigations in the pursuit of the truth of what happened to our beloved Michael.
We may have to all prepare ourselves for the worst in the months ahead when the truth unravels as I believe it will. I pray God will bless us all in these terrible tough times.
 
I read Moth2aflame's posts too. To me these are just his/her opinion about what might have happened. I have seen no collaborating evidence and she/he did not answer when asked for evidence as well.

Also to me she/he seems like on Joe/Latoya wagon with planned murder for the catalog theory as well as invalid will, bad executors and MJ actually left everything to Katherine and Joe suggestion. Honestly I can be persuaded for all the above arguments with solid hard evidence expect MJ left his money to Joe argument.

-----------------------------
If I turn back to topic - I think we will eventually see the autopsy photographs - either during the trial or after it through information act. I also think probably several news media and tabloid already have unseal requests for anything related to MJ homicide investigation. It's just a matter of time when a judge finds it okay to unseal them.
 
After reading the post from Moth2aFlame I must say it all sounds very plausible as having happened like that, but for Michael's sake I hope he did not consciously experience all those horrors.
And two other questions pop into my mind: would those narcotics still be found in his body after 7 hours or more, and secondly, the (leaked) autopsy report did not mention any Morphine or Demerol, benzos were used as we now know if that autopsy report was real, that is. I'm still not sure if that autopsy report was the real deal.
There are a number of reasons why I think this report is not the real deal.
 
As far as the autopsy reports are concerned, I heard about 2 things :
the official autopsy report : the info that was released was only about the cause of death (benzo, lethal level of propofol, homicide). The other info about Michael's general state of health, or other things were not released.
From memory, I think the first statements from the coroner (a few days after his death if I remember correctly, so before they had the results of the toxicology tests) said that there was no suspicious marks on MJ's body. He was talking about signs of a pshysical agression or anything suggesting a struggle, blows, etc...

Then there is the "leaked" autopsy report, that appeared a few days before the release of TII, and so in the middle of the TINI campaign. That leaked report said that MJ was in general good health. We don't know if this leaked report is true or not, it is not the official report.

Sorry for my English, I hope this is clear...
 
bouee said:
The other info about Michael's general state of health, or other things were not released.
From memory, I think the first statements from the coroner (a few days after his death if I remember correctly, so before they had the results of the toxicology tests) said that there was no suspicious marks on MJ's body. He was talking about signs of a pshysical agression or anything suggesting a struggle, blows, etc...
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You are correct about that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmdrNn3HZcY

that press conference made me suspicious of Murray not being the 'alone' murderer... cuz as this coroner or speaksperson of the LAPD makes it sounds the coroner got only involved cuz no doctor wanted to sign the death certificate. Does this mean without Murray not signing Michaels death wouldn't have even been investigated at all?
 
lol no prob... my archive now is so huge... a miracle I've found it so fast ;)
 
daisy said:
I could just add that maybe we should not completely disregard what's written in tabloids. One example can be this famous missing video of Michael complaining about the 50 shows - the content of it was revealved by The Sun and so all the other newpapers and media (including "mainstream" media) were quoting it.
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This is exactly what I meant in my post. I do not think we can any longer say the tabs are all lies and the "credible" news tells the truth. There is a mix of both truth and lies in ALL of them. I believe that is done on purpose to confuse us.
Not that no news is credible but that the line is not so easily drawn.
 
earth child said:
This is exactly what I meant in my post. I do not think we can any longer say the tabs are all lies and the "credible" news tells the truth. There is a mix of both truth and lies in ALL of them. I believe that is done on purpose to confuse us.
Not that no news is credible but that the line is not so easily drawn.
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Thank you Daisy for the dates. The Tabs especially now have to get some "credible source information" because so much has come out official. Looking back since June they do mix truth with lies on purpose but for what reason ? M2AF knew Michael's death would be Official ruled a Homicide/Murder from the beginning, maybe they encypted their messages too, because this was a time most where believing it could have been "accidental". LAPD has to have "overwhelming evidence" to put "Homicide" before a Grand Jury.
 
daisy,


Thanks so much for posting "Moth2aflames" post. Thats helps out alot to have everyone read it and see it for themselves.







Be back later...
 
I was thinking about mother2aflame's post about someone possibly holding michael down, and keeping him from making any sound.

Like everyone's been saying, it must have been a strong person or several men.

But as I was thinking about that, the thought of those extra hired security guards came up in my mind...

We don't even know if that extra "security" hired by Thome Thome were even REAL security guards......

The LAPD should definately look in on that. I hope they have.
 
kasume said:
I was thinking about mother2aflame's post about someone possibly holding michael down, and keeping him from making any sound.

Like everyone's been saying, it must have been a strong person or several men.

But as I was thinking about that, the thought of those extra hired security guards came up in my mind...

We don't even know if that extra "security" hired by Thome Thome were even REAL security guards......

The LAPD should definately look in on that. I hope they have.
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Good point, the follower fans said the security guards had been trebled the night before Michaels death, why and who were they?
 
yes, good point kasume, this comes back to the number of security guards again.
Why would Michael need more security those days (if that was him who hired them)?
And is it a coincidence that Michael died just when there were more sec. guards around the house?
 
Michael needed to be secured. That's why security was risen.

Two possible scenarios:

- he wanted to focus on the shows as those were not ready. There was not even one 'full run' done till the 25th.

or

- the fans and everybody was kept away from him as he was talking to the outside (fans for sure!) about that he wasn't too happy with the plan on doing those 50 shows. No possibility for him to do that anymore.



Yeah there is this ferry tale that Michael Jackson felt betrayed by fans who were those giving information to the media he didn't want there.
To me that's clearly a ferry tale. Michael was in the business longer than most of us are breathing in this world yet. He was a professional in every sense. What he didn't want out there, didn't slip his lips. Well that's my opinion of cuz, everybody is free to disagree.

Oh and let me add according to Murray landlines weren't working in Michaels home at least on the private floor and cellphones according to other staff members often didn't get a connection.
How lucky the cellphone for the emergency call made it through... just hours too late...

Gosh we're fed so much contradicting stuff.

But well the truth will prevail, it always does. And I'll still be here when it does.
 
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Gaiaschild said:
Good point, the follower fans said the security guards had been trebled the night before Michaels death, why and who were they?
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I spent 4 hours yesterday going back reading post to June 26, 2009. It seems the hundred of Threads that where created on June 25 are gone as well as almost two weeks from June 26 - July 9, there where a couple of other people on here that have stayed consistent in their beliefs I saw too, I dont know if the Threads where merged or archived but they are Gone. But anyway I had an Epiphany, "Michael was not subdued in the house but in the vehicle he was riding in from Rehearsal, he was injected with something in the SUV" . If LAPD has ruled Michael's Death a Homicide Im pretty sure they have proof maybe to the extent they may bring 1st Degree Charges of Premeditated Murder Homicide when Arrest are made. Like Liza said "all Hell is Gonna Break Loose" we may need to prepare ourselves for a bumpy ride and maybe thats why LAPD is so quiet "they know alot" and most of that is "Thanks to Michael and his Body speaking to the Coroner". I believe it went down pretty rough as some have posted, and I dont mean rough on Michael even though the process he endured had to be unimaginable, they knew because of his skin condition he would bruise easily so they had to render him unconscious some kind of way, now like I said it may have come from all the reading and be way off but I would love to the see how LAPD wrote their Investigation up to get an Official Homicide Ruling. This will be a Homicide like no other. I keep thinking about LaToya saying "Michael had fresh needle marks on his neck" not from the EMTs or the hospital. Anyway thats my two cents and I believe there where "2" sets of BodyGuards and one only worked briefly in the early morning hours of June 25, 2009.
 
MJ#1WhoIsIt said:
I spent 4 hours yesterday going back reading post to June 26, 2009. It seems the hundred of Threads that where created on June 25 are gone as well as almost two weeks from June 26 - July 9, there where a couple of other people on here that have stayed consistent in their beliefs I saw too, I dont know if the Threads where merged or archived but they are Gone. But anyway I had an Epiphany, "Michael was not subdued in the house but in the vehicle he was riding in from Rehearsal, he was injected with something in the SUV" . If LAPD has ruled Michael's Death a Homicide Im pretty sure they have proof maybe to the extent they may bring 1st Degree Charges of Premeditated Murder Homicide when Arrest are made. Like Liza said "all Hell is Gonna Break Loose" we may need to prepare ourselves for a bumpy ride and maybe thats why LAPD is so quiet "they know alot" and most of that is "Thanks to Michael and his Body speaking to the Coroner". I believe it went down pretty rough as some have posted, and I dont mean rough on Michael even though the process he endured had to be unimaginable, they knew because of his skin condition he would bruise easily so they had to render him unconscious some kind of way, now like I said it may have come from all the reading and be way off but I would love to the see how LAPD wrote their Investigation up to get an Official Homicide Ruling. This will be a Homicide like no other. I keep thinking about LaToya saying "Michael had fresh needle marks on his neck" not from the EMTs or the hospital. Anyway thats my two cents and I believe there where "2" sets of BodyGuards and one only worked briefly in the early morning hours of June 25, 2009.
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Yeah, I've noticed that the threads are gone. I do hope they are archived somewhere?

I don't think Michael was injected with anything in the SUV. The Follower Fans were there to greet him at his house, and they conversed with him briefly. None of them have said he seemed "impaired" at that time. They gave him the letters that they'd written expressing concern. A body-guard took possession of the letters and said that he'd give them to Michael "later." We don't know if that ever happened.

I think that whatever happened to him was inside the house. . . . If that's true, (what LaToya said), then the "fresh needle-marks" on Michael's neck. . if any. . .could have been for the quick-delivery of a rescue-drug. Or it could have been to subdue him. We just don't know. . . .
 
Victoria83 said:
Yeah, I've noticed that the threads are gone. I do hope they are archived somewhere?

I don't think Michael was injected with anything in the SUV. The Follower Fans were there to greet him at his house, and they conversed with him briefly. None of them have said he seemed "impaired" at that time. They gave him the letters that they'd written expressing concern. A body-guard took possession of the letters and said that he'd give them to Michael "later." We don't know if that ever happened.

I think that whatever happened to him was inside the house. . . . If that's true, (what LaToya said), then the "fresh needle-marks" on Michael's neck. . if any. . .could have been for the quick-delivery of a rescue-drug. Or it could have been to subdue him. We just don't know. . . .
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oh wow...this is just really really really disturbing.......the more I read the more insane I go.....I just wish that we new more of the truth....now see if the LAPD did their job and turned the house into a crime seen right away like they should of then maybe we would have more evidence....sorry to rant...I just get at a lose for words some days..:(
 
The only thing threads like this do are spread more rumor and speculations and accusations. Truthfully, yes, Michael was murdered. I believe that whole-heartedly. Yet there are fans who do not believe this was the case. Was Dr. Murray the only person involved in what happened. I think not. But we also have to be careful of wrongfully convicting those that worked with him. There was so much hatred shown toward Kenny Ortega and that was wrong! I believe Karen Faye is the one fueling a lot of this. Kenny loved Michael very much and they were friends for over 20 years. He would never do anything to harm Michael.

Secondly, those horrid photos all over YT are fake. I'm not talking about the ones showing him in the ambulance either. I also do not believe that Michael's autopsy photos should be released to anyone other than Katherine Jackson or the executors who have legal authority in the estate. I see no purpose of Joe Jackson or his attorney getting access to those photos whatsoever. It doesn't matter that he's his father. And I do not trust they will do the right thing with them. I'm afraid those will end up in the hands of the media.

Also has anyone really ever questioned why Joe Jackson, Deepak Chopra, Brian Oxman and Leonard Rowe were the first people to accuse Michael of being a drug addict? This was a day after Michael died! Really is that how any parent would want their son to be remembered, especially knowing that pain he went through while alive? Oxman and Chopra claimed they knew who was giving Michael drugs, allegedly, yet they did not contact authorities that they felt he might be in danger? So many people have said that Michael could have been saved, yet why was there no attempt. True enough there was security around him, but no one thought to contact the authorities to get inside the home or inside the Staples Center where he rehearsed? Did they feel there was no danger to the children as well?

There is a lot going on around this case that we really just don't know about yet. We all are hurt, but we have to understand that there is info that DOES NOT need to be released at this time. The authorities are not taking this much time because of Dr. Conrad Murray. There are many others involved and this will continue to roll out over time. This case will last for years I'm afraid. But I do believe Michael will have justice one way or another.
 
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Victoria83 said:
Yeah, I've noticed that the threads are gone. I do hope they are archived somewhere?

I don't think Michael was injected with anything in the SUV. The Follower Fans were there to greet him at his house, and they conversed with him briefly. None of them have said he seemed "impaired" at that time. They gave him the letters that they'd written expressing concern. A body-guard took possession of the letters and said that he'd give them to Michael "later." We don't know if that ever happened.

I think that whatever happened to him was inside the house. . . . If that's true, (what LaToya said), then the "fresh needle-marks" on Michael's neck. . if any. . .could have been for the quick-delivery of a rescue-drug. Or it could have been to subdue him. We just don't know. . . .
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Yea I just notice they where goin when I went back looking when Moddie asked the other day I hope they are archived too. But Thank You I did not know he greeted Fans that morning at that dreadful house. But since we are allowed to Speculate over here may I say this "what if that was one of his Double's ? I read somewhere on the net that there are people who believe that wasnt even Michael Jackson making those "02 Concert annoucement", now we all know he was still alive at that time but people where really serious about it, if anyone wants Im sure Google it and can find it. Some had said Michael didnt walk like that, that person keep there head down and Michael never did, they where reading Body Lanague like crazy, they had close-up pictures of his face and I dont remember what they where saying but they did point something out. I mean its a Murder and Murderers go to Great Lenghts, but Thanks for the Info I didnt even know that he had Greeted People, Wow !




MrsMJ2007 said:
The only thing threads like this do are spread more rumor and speculations and accusations. Truthfully, yes, Michael was murdered. I believe that whole-heartedly. Yet there are fans who do not believe this was the case. Was Dr. Murray the only person involved in what happened. I think not. But we also have to be careful of wrongfully convicting those that worked with him. .......................This case will last for years I'm afraid. But I do believe Michael will have justice one way or another.
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I just wanted to comment with respect to you; the Disclaimer states "this forum we question Michael's death, the latest news and stories surrounding his death and the conspiracy theories - contains heavy spectulation , with that said alot of stuff that was once rumor or speculations have already come true as fact, some of us where just talking about that the other day and its no doubt some of what you call "accusations" are going to turn out to be Factual True. I believe as you do that Michael Jackson was Murdered, no Accident, no Manslaughter, no Negligence, and Im glad MJJCommunity allow Michael's Fans a place to Speculate until Proven in the I.U., these same names are the same ones all over the Internet as being involved in Michael's Murder so its not just here, as far as "wronfully convicting anyone that remains to be seen until arrest are made" because as they say in a Murder "EVERYONE IS A SUSPECT UNTIL PROVEN NOT" but from what Ive read in the I.U.some of these Fans really know what they are talking about and alot of Good Information have come through here. It may last for years thats why there is "No Stature of Limitations on Murder in the USA". A person can be 99 years old but a conviction can put that person away if found Guilty even of a 50 year old Murder, dont you Love America. Peace
 
MrsMJ2007 said:
The only thing threads like this do are spread more rumor and speculations and accusations.
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I'm going to respond to this, too, because we had a lot of problems with this in the past and I hope that doesn't repeat? This is exactly the place for speculation. That is what is DONE here, and has been for quite awhile. I do understand that it's not for everyone, but those of us here are just trying to understand?

MrsMJ2007 said:
Also has anyone really ever questioned why Joe Jackson, Deepak Chopra, Brian Oxman and Leonard Rowe were the first people to accuse Michael of being a drug addict? This was a day after Michael died! Really is that how any parent would want their son to be remembered, especially knowing that pain he went through while alive? Oxman and Chopra claimed they knew who was giving Michael drugs, allegedly, yet they did not contact authorities that they felt he might be in danger?
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Yeah, this has been discussed. Not wanting to get into another discussion of Joseph here, but he surely has his own agenda. Being a "good parent" is apparently not IT.

MrsMJ2007 said:
So many people have said that Michael could have been saved, yet why was there no attempt. True enough there was security around him, but no one thought to contact the authorities to get inside the home or inside the Staples Center where he rehearsed? Did they feel there was no danger to the children as well?
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At the end I think he was terribly isolated, and again, people had their own agendas. We don't know that people did NOT try to help him, but his security detail was formidable, and increased three-fold toward the end.

MrsMJ2007 said:
There is a lot going on around this case that we really just don't know about yet. We all are hurt, but we have to understand that there is info that DOES NOT need to be released at this time. The authorities are not taking this much time because of Dr. Conrad Murray. There are many others involved and this will continue to roll out over time. This case will last for years I'm afraid. But I do believe Michael will have justice one way or another.
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I REALLY hope you're right, that this delay is because of a thorough investigation that involves more than just Murray. Somehow, I doubt it, though. Money can do almost anything and there is a lot at stake.
 
Since Liza Minnelli made a statement such as "all hell will break lose", what was she talking about and how did she know and what does she know? Liza has been in the industry for a long time and knows what goes on. I hope the LAPD have talked with her.
 
I'm sorry to go into these details, but "Moth2aflame" said the bed sheets were changed because our Michael "threw up" from all those meds they were forcing on him, he was trying to resist according to her post. If in fact he threw up, that would show on an Autopsy report, thats something the killers wouldn't want to be known by anyone, it would show force, wouldn't it?
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If this were true, it would support Firpo's sarcastic statement, Yes, after doping him up with enough medication to drop a full-grown bull elephant, a vibrant Michael Jackson had the emotional strength and mental fortitude to actually "demand" more drugs.

http://earthtrinity.com/picBullElephantTomClaytor.jpg
 
I remember reading that post by Moth2aflame and it stuck with me but I dind't take it as fact, it sounds more like it was his/her opinion/speculation about what might have happened . Although.. how someone can think up that elaborate scenario just like that without having any real info is beyond me...
Moddie777 said she/he's not here anymore, anyone know why? Seems weird.

And about some threads missing - remember there was a massive MJ sites crash a while back ? It was weird cause it seemed like a planned thing, all those boards going down at the same time? I think data was lost/erased when that happened, mods could maybe tell us.

Either way, all of this that's been said in this thread gives me the creeps and for Mike's sake I kinda hope it's not true... I'm leaning towards believing his death was deliberate it's just I would imagine there would be easier ways of doing it - what would be the point of them making him go into cardiac arrest a number of times and revived just to do it again like Moth2aflame said? You would think there would be signs of that in the autopsy as well...
I don't know, all of this is starting to sound like a horror movie.:-(
 
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